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Press & Police - echos of so many other threads.
Jack Megaw, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Jack Megaw, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Pittsburgh | PA | America | Posted: 6:51 PM on 12.11.09 |
| ->> Just to add on - Paul Lewis is a reporter for The Guardian. |
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Neil Turner, Photographer
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Bournemouth | UK | United Kingdom | Posted: 9:09 AM on 12.14.09 |
->> It has become very bad here in the UK over the last few months. Most of the problems stem from the abuse of various sections of the Anti-Terror laws passed a couple of years ago but the underlying issue is that everyone knows that there is a terror threat and everyone wants to do something about it but nobody knows what it looks, smells and feels like.
We suffered decades of bombings at the hands of Irish Republicans but on the whole we all knew what the threat looked and sounded like and we knew that they were not intent on suicide missions. We no longer have the certainty and the security forces no longer know exactly what they are looking for.
Sadly, photographers get it in the neck - every day. It's a pain and we are fighting hard against it but it is a tough struggle. |
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Jeff Mills, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Columbus | OH | USA | Posted: 12:10 PM on 12.14.09 |
->> What is important to remember is that the media, or really people in general, are going to be far more likely to bring up the bad situations rather than the good.
On almost a daily basis I have some interaction with law enforcement, either covering a news story, to doing a feature on a local Sergent who's union just returned from the Gulf, to just talking to the off duty officer at a high school sporting event and 99.9% percent of those men and women are always very professional, respectful, knowledgeable and frankly quite friendly.
Yes there are situations that come up where an officer has acted in a grossly inappropriate manner, and those things should be reported, but lets not forgot that there are also plenty of photographers out there who's actions are also inappropriate at times. 9 times out of 10 simply showing a little respect will in turn get you that same respect and courtesy returned to you. That is true of countless situations other than just dealing with law enforcement as well as it also works with refs, coaches, SID's, fans in the stands and even fellow shooters. |
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Jim Colburn, Photo Editor, Photographer
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McAllen | TX | USA | Posted: 12:13 PM on 12.14.09 |
->> "What is important to remember is that the media, or really people in general, are going to be far more likely to bring up the bad situations rather than the good."
I'll try to remember that the next time a police officer tries to stop me from taking a picture and I agree with him... |
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Dan Megna, Photographer
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Coronado | CA | USA | Posted: 12:27 PM on 12.14.09 |
->> For those who feel like you're always a victim of cop abuse... This might actually make you smile. Or, maybe not...
Recently, the Chula Vista (California) Police Department ran an e-mail forum (a question and answer exchange) with the topic being, "Community Policing."
One of the civilian email participants posed the following question, "I would like to know how it is possible for police officers to continually harass people and get away with it?"
From the "other side" (the law enforcement side) CVPD Police Sergeant, obviously a cop with a sense of humor replied:
"First of all, let me tell you this...it's not easy. In Chula Vista, we average one cop for every 600 people. Only about 60% of those cops are on general duty (or what you might refer to as "patrol") where we do most of our harassing.
The rest are in non-harassing departments that do not allow them contact with the day to day innocents. And at any given moment, only one-fifth of the 60% patrollers are on duty and available for harassing people while the rest are off duty. So roughly, one cop is responsible for harassing about 5,000 residents.
When you toss in the commercial business, and tourist locations that attract people from other areas, sometimes you have a situation where a single cop is responsible for harassing 10,000 or more people a day.
Now, your average ten-hour shift runs 36,000 seconds long. This gives a cop one second to harass a person, and then only three-fourths of a second to eat a donut AND then find a new person to harass. This is not an easy task. To be honest, most cops are not up to this challenge day in and day out. It is just too tiring. What we do is utilize some tools to help us narrow down those people which we can realistically harass.
The tools available to us are as follows:
PHONE: People will call us up and point out things that cause us to focus on a person for special harassment. "My neighbor is beating his wife" is a code phrase used often. This means we'll come out and give somebody some special harassment.
Another popular one is, "There's a guy breaking into a house." The harassment team is then put into action.
CARS: We have special cops assigned to harass people who drive. They like to harass the drivers of fast cars, cars with no insurance or no driver's licenses and the like... It's lots of fun when you pick them out of traffic for nothing more obvious than running a red light. Sometimes you get to really heap the harassment on when you find they have drugs in the car, they are drunk, or have an outstanding warrant on file.
RUNNERS: Some people take off running just at the sight of a police officer. Nothing is quite as satisfying as running after them like a beagle on the scent of a bunny. When you catch them you can harass them for hours.
STATUTES: When we don't have PHONES or CARS and have nothing better to do, there are actually books that give us ideas for reasons to harass folks. They are called "Statutes"; Criminal Codes, Motor Vehicle Codes, etc... They all spell out all sorts of things for which you can really mess with people.
After you read the statute, you can just drive around for awhile until you find someone violating one of these listed offenses and harass them. Just last week I saw a guy trying to steal a car. Well, there's this book we have that says that's not allowed. That meant I got permission to harass this guy. It is a really cool system that we have set up, and it works pretty well.
We seem to have a never-ending supply of folks to harass. And we get away with it. Why? Because for the good citizens who pay the tab, we try to keep the streets safe for them, and they pay us to "harass" some people.
Next time you are in my town, give me the old "single finger wave." That's another one of those codes. It means, "You can't harass me."
It's one of our favorites. |
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Jeff Mills, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Columbus | OH | USA | Posted: 12:51 PM on 12.14.09 |
->> Jim, how many times has a cop tried to stop you from taking a picture last month ? If at all, what percentage of total interactions you've had with law enforcement would that represent ?
Every cop I encountered last month (including the one that stopped me for a front license plate warning lol) was very professional, gave me all the access I needed to get my job done, and where all genuinely nice, polite people in general.
Does that mean that there aren't cops or security people who are misinformed, or perhaps just jerks ? No, those types are certainly out there just like their are some photographers who fall into the same category.
Know what though ? I didn't bother to ever post about any of those good accounts and I doubt anyone else does either. But when we run into that rare person on the force who does harass us, we can't wait to rush home and share our story with the world. We should as well, those people need to be accountable for their actions.
Doesn't mean its the norm though.
I just don't understand the "everyone is against us attitudes" some people have.
Cops are going out of their way to harass us, bball refs are all purposely standing in front of us on the baseline, Nikon tried to trick us with a new 70-200 thats less than 200mm at MFD etc etc
I should really just stop posting on SS..... |
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Andrew Nelles, Photographer
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Chicago | Ill. | usa | Posted: 1:19 PM on 12.14.09 |
->> Jeff, I don't think anyone on here is trying to paint an overall negative picture of law enforcement. However, situations like the one in the link above are becoming more frequent, and deserve attention.
Last week I found myself in a similar situation, and was threatened with arrest. No need to get into specifics, it was a "yes this public property is open to the pubic, but working press will be arrested" situation. Like many on this message board, I've had numerous negative and unjustified experiences with law enforcement. Does that leave me with an overall grudge towards the police? No, not at all. The vast majority of experiences I've had are positive, however, that doesn't give them a free pass when I've been unfairly treated. |
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Sean Burges, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Ottawa | ON | Canada | Posted: 1:33 PM on 12.14.09 |
->> I lived in the UK for quite a while. It is a VERY different environment to what we find in North America. This incident gets repeated at all sorts of levels for all sorts of things down to the most ridiculously prosaic. The simple message: do as you are told and do not question authority. Period.
The country is just similar enough to Canada and the U.S. to be really dangerous -- it feels the same, but culturally the subtext is really quite different.
My pity to the policy officers. They were placed in a rather untenable situation by their management chain. Also, what was that about the security guards performing police surveilance functions? That one is more than a little bit frightening. |
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Jim Colburn, Photo Editor, Photographer
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McAllen | TX | USA | Posted: 2:26 PM on 12.14.09 |
->> "...how many times has a cop tried to stop you from taking a picture last month?"
Last month? None. That, however, has nothing to do with the problem.
Most of my interactions with police officers and their superiors have, over the years, been pleasant. Most policemen-and-women are great people. There are a small number of assholes on police forces the world over that think that the badge on their shirt entitles them to trample of the rights of anyone that they come across. They either don't know the law or they don't pay attention to it. They think that anyone who disagrees with them in any way ought to be arrested and thrown into a cell.
They don't belong in the jobs that they have and should be dismissed. |
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Jack Megaw, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Pittsburgh | PA | America | Posted: 4:53 PM on 12.14.09 |
->> "...how many times has a cop tried to stop you from taking a picture last month?"
I wish you'd asked me this the week after the G20 Summit. |
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