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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Nikon 1/500 Flash Sync Cameras
Chuck Steenburgh, Photographer
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Lexington | VA | USA | Posted: 12:14 PM on 11.29.09 |
->> I'm looking to get a Nikon body specifically to use with strobes. As I recall, the CCD-equipped cameras (D1-series, D70, D40) were also equipped with an electronic shutter allowing flash sync speeds of 1/500 or higher (non-FP). This will be primarily for shooting college hoops.
Which body would you recommend? Is the D40's AF system up to sports, at 1 fps strobe shooting speeds? |
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Peter Aiken, Photographer
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Manhattan | KS | USA | Posted: 12:51 PM on 11.29.09 |
| ->> The only Nikon digital camera I've used that would sync with strobes at 1/500 was the D1X. Most of the newer Nikon's all sync at 1/250. Don't know anything about the D40, since I've never used that camera. |
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Mark Perlstein, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Plano | TX | USA | Posted: 12:54 PM on 11.29.09 |
| ->> D70 has the 1/500 flash sync |
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Jeff Stanton, Photographer
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Princeton | IN | USA | Posted: 12:57 PM on 11.29.09 |
| ->> The D1, D1H, D1x and D70 all sync at 500 sec. I would stay away from a D40. This is not the kind of camera that will hold up shooting on a professional level. I'm curious, why are you going back to one of these? At the age of these units, they are far less reliable than ever and the battery issues, that's another story all together. |
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Max Simbron, Photographer, Assistant
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Phoenix | AZ | USA | Posted: 2:32 PM on 11.29.09 |
->> Chuck,
I believe the D40 is the newest (came out late 2006) of the CCD cameras. I bought it and used it specifically for the high speed syncing. Here's my take
Pros:
Awesome sync speed (I can get up to 1/1600th with PW Multimax units, 1/1250th with standard Plus II units).
Small RAW files. 6mp is plenty if you shoot it right, and the file sizes are comparable with jpegs from current 12mp cameras. I threw in a spare 8GB SD card and had space for well over 1k images.
Tiny. I can pocket this and use it for a few images on a shoot, then put it away and use a more current camera. So you don't have to leave a big camera at home to make space for this one.
Cheap. Got mine used for a couple hundred bucks. If it blows up, who cares?
Cons:
AF. It's not unreliable, but it's not fast. It's also only 3pt, so you have to focus and recompose or hope things work in the left right or center focus area. This would actually be ok for shooting verticals, except...
No grip. Remember, it's tiny. I have normal, maybe smallish hands, and it's tiny. If you shoot a lot of vertical you will miss the lack of a grip.
No lens AF motor. So on my 50 1.8 and my 10.5 fish, I have to manually focus. Not a big deal if you know how to, but certainly not always ideal. Focus works just fine on my 35 1.8 and 17-55 2.8 though, since they have motors.
Shadow noise. Even at ISO 200, deep shadows can lose detail fast. I would expose to the right or fill in the shadows to avoid losing that kind of detail if it's necessary.
If you wish to view some RAW files, contact me and I can send you some files so you can see what the D40 can produce.
On another note, if you really wanted to shoot college hoops with strobes and high sync, I'd consider the old 1D. It's a Canon, but it's a pro body, built like a tank, has 45pt AF that works, razor sharp images (too sharp, because it has almost no AA filter, so moire can become evident), a 4mp RAW file that produces 4MB files, and sells for cheap (like 500 bucks. I'd get two, one with no charger to save money). Go with a 70-200 4 and a 300 4 and you'd have a nice setup for strobes hoops, for a reasonable price.
Let me know if you have any more questions. |
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Chuck Steenburgh, Photographer
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Lexington | VA | USA | Posted: 3:25 PM on 11.29.09 |
->> Jeff: What Max said.
I think I can unload a D300 (I have two, plus a D300s) since it seems a bit of a waste to have one dedicated to strobe, especially when it only syncs to 1/250. Also have a D2H in the stable for use as a remote body.
I converted my D70 to full-tiem infrared, which I actually use a lot more than I would a D40. A D70s might be an alternative (and in fact, could be pressed into service as a remote). |
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Jeff Mills, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Columbus | OH | USA | Posted: 5:09 PM on 11.29.09 |
->> D70 is by far the best buy, you can pick them up for under $300 and they will indeed sync fast, 1/1000th is doable, maybe faster with a hardwire.
They also have pretty decent image quality, though it is a little lacking compared to todays modern bodies.
The nice thing about the D70 is that while compact, its still pretty comfortable to hold as it is much larger than a D40 or similar. Those cameras are simply too small to really be able to use a lens like a 70-200 on.
I have two D70's but converted them both to IR.
If you can get around the limited frame rate and rather slow AF system, they are a heck of a camera for the money and an awesome tool for when you need fast sync speeds |
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Daniel Berman, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Seattle | WA | US | Posted: 7:13 PM on 11.29.09 |
| ->> The D70 produces a pretty nice file, definitely looks great with any kind of strobe lighting. I still use mine all the time as a second body in sunlight, and as a backup for portrait shoots. |
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Hassel Weems, Photographer
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Locust Grove (Atlanta) | GA | USA | Posted: 9:30 PM on 11.29.09 |
->> I keep one of my old D1X bodies around for its ability to sync at 1/1000 or better. The drawback to this camera is its NiMH battery. It has to be charged every time you want to use the camera and the useful lifespan is relatively short.
The D70 and newer cameras use li-ion batteries. They hold a charge longer and the useful lifespan is much better. If I remember correctly, the D70 can use the same battery as the D300. |
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Andrew Kornylak, Photographer
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Atlanta | GA | USA | Posted: 11:34 PM on 11.29.09 |
->> A high flash sync is really only necessary if you are shooting in bright ambient and need to sync action at high shutter speeds with secondary flash. Canon and Nikon hotshoe flashes now have high-speed flash sync at any shutter speed to overcome that problem (with some limitations)
Otherwise, if you are shooting with only strobes as your main source, a 1/250 sync is going to be fine because the flash duration is short enough to stop the action. If your stadium lighting is going to compete with your strobes, you may see some shutter drag but, but the difference between 1/250 and 1/500 is not enough to go back to using a D70 with so many other limitations for shooting sports action, IMO (though I loved that camera dearly...)
A camera like the D2X or D3 that syncs at 250 max actually will sync at 1/320 pretty reliably. |
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Max Simbron, Photographer, Assistant
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Phoenix | AZ | USA | Posted: 12:11 AM on 11.30.09 |
->> Andrew, you are partially correct. 1/500th sync is only 1 stop more than 1/250th. However, these cameras do 1/500th with on camera flashes (say a 1D with a 550ex or a D40 with an SB-800), but if they do not detect a flash on camera, such as with a vivitar 285, or using strobes with hard wire, or even wireless with pocket wizards, you can easily achieve 1/1,000th or higher shutter.
I've tested the 1D to trigger up to 1/2500th with a simple flash. I've tested the D40 at the local arena to 1/4,000th, and wireless I've shot both at 1/1000th.
as you stated, the flash duration should effectively become the exposure duration and freeze action, but that's not why you want the extra shutter speed. Simply put, knocking down the ambient without affecting the flash output let's you use smaller flashes to overpower ambient, be it arena lighting, or sunlight.
Imagine if you're only 2 stops over with your strobes at the local high school, shooting at 1/250th. By going to 1/1,000th, you are now 4 stops over. That's quite useful in my experience. |
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Chuck Steenburgh, Photographer
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Lexington | VA | USA | Posted: 6:39 AM on 11.30.09 |
->> Thanks for the primer, Andrew, but again...what Max said. :)
I have shot a D1/D70 with strobe, and now use a D2H/D300. I want to go back to 1/500 or better. My home arena is very bright - getting one or two more stops over ambient really helps the images pop.
Oh, decisions, decisions. I think I'm going with a refurbed D40 from Cameta for about $300. I know the D70 inside and out, I'd like to give the D40 a shot. Thanks for all the advice! |
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Andrew Kornylak, Photographer
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Atlanta | GA | USA | Posted: 9:55 AM on 11.30.09 |
| ->> So just curious, if your goal is to be able to overpower ambient using smaller strobes, why not use high speed sync? |
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Max Simbron, Photographer, Assistant
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Phoenix | AZ | USA | Posted: 10:42 AM on 11.30.09 |
->> Andrew,
High Speed Sync on hotshoe flashes work by pulsing the flash at high speeds (50khz) throughout the movement of the mechanical shutter in most cameras. By doing so, it simulates being "on" the whole duration of the shutter speed. This results in two things
First, because it's pulsing several times rather than one fast burst of light, the power output is reduced severely.
Second, depending on the shutter speed used, this could actually increase exposure duration, since the light basically works throughout the shutter movement, rather than its one big burst. So at 1/250th, your flash duration might be 1/2000th, but at 1/500th, the pulse lasts 1/500th of a second.
Oh, I forgot one last thing: this only works with compatible hot shot flashes, not mono's, strobes, or generic hotshoe flashes (like the Vivitar). The camera and flash must be able to communicate to engage HSS. |
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Andrew Kornylak, Photographer
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Atlanta | GA | USA | Posted: 11:03 AM on 11.30.09 |
->> Max - Yup, Im familiar with Nikon's FP sync. It will increase the duration and decrease power, but around 1/1000 seems to be a sweet spot (in my experience) where the pulse stretches the full 1/1000 but you have only lost 1-2 stops.
In practice, it works well, (just like pushing the shutter with the D70 works in practice) and with CLS you can do TTL with FP sync.
Anyway I just see it as a wash, you'll get the same practical results with the addition of all the other benefits of the newer cameras.
But to the OT, I think the D70 is superior to the D40. |
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Al Goldis, Photographer
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East Lansing | MI | USA | Posted: 11:10 PM on 11.30.09 |
->> "So just curious, if your goal is to be able to overpower ambient using smaller strobes, why not use high speed sync?"
Because it's not available with studio (arena) strobes.
When Chuck says "smaller" strobes, he doesn't mean on-camera flash. He's talking about smaller-but-still-big arena strobes. |
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Chuck Steenburgh, Photographer
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Lexington | VA | USA | Posted: 5:33 AM on 12.01.09 |
->> I said "smaller" strobes? :)
FWIW, I'm shooting WL UZ1600s.
Now for wrestling, I do shoot using CLS (and I think it works quite well) - but I've never found 1/250 to be a problem for that sport. And I shoot in a cave.
http://sportsphotoguy.com/d300-does-wrestling/ |
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Chuck Steenburgh, Photographer
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Lexington | VA | USA | Posted: 2:27 PM on 01.12.10 |
->> To provide an update on this...I ended up getting a demo D40 package from Cameta Camera for about $325...shot my first home basketball game with it last night.
Bottom line...very satisfied with the results. AF was just a tad slow at times, causing me to miss a shot or two I might have gotten with my D300. On the other hand, shooting at up to 1/1000 sync, I also know that helped me nail a shot or two I'd have never gotten at 1/250. And overall, my shots at both 1/500 and 1/1000 were more pleasing to me than 1/250.
And with AF-S or HSM lenses, the D40's AF system really isn't all that bad. As Max points out, this thing really is tiny and I've taken to using it as my everyday knock around camera.
I'll post a few examples later this evening. Note to Nikon: bring back the CCD sensor! |
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Rick Rickman, Photographer
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Laguna Niguel | CA | USA | Posted: 2:51 PM on 01.12.10 |
->> Chuck:
The Nikon D1X is a great camera for just what you're needing. I have one that I use all the time just for the purpose of shooting with strobe to overpower ambient including daylight.
I actually have shot the D1X at 1/1000 with some longer duration strobe sources and have had wonderful images result from that combination. I would recommend getting the D1X upgraded as well so it will take the 2GB cards. Shooting raw will eat up space and write speed in that camera. It's buffer only takes 6 shots and writes slowly but it works great.
Happy Shooting !!! |
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