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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Video: D300s vs 5DMII
PJ Heller, Photographer
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Santa Barbara | CA | USA | Posted: 4:13 PM on 11.28.09 |
->> Anybody shooting video with DSLRs, particularly the D300s or 5D Mark II? Looking for opinions about what you like, dislike about shooting video with those cameras (trying to decide whether to pick one up for doing some video work).
I’m a Nikon shooter but Canon seems way ahead in video offerings in DSLRs. I’ve been following the various blogs (i.e. Philip Bloom and others) on these cameras, but am looking for comments from SS members who may have branched into video from stills.
While a camcorder is another option, I’m leaning more toward a DSLR body. |
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Myung Chun, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 3:02 PM on 11.29.09 |
->> I've shot video with the 5DMk2 and love the image quality from the camera. It's a fantastic camera in low-light situations.
The drawbacks: Currently, until the firmware upgrade is released around the new year which will allow for adjustable frame rates, the camera only shoots in 30fps. And it's a true 30 fps and not video's 29.97. You'll want to convert out of the H.264 files that come out of the camera anyways. In a multi-camera shoot, mixing the 5D and a video camera, the converted 30fps footage will be slightly out of sync during lengthy shooting sessions.
The 30fps also looks like "video." 24fps has a more filmlike or cinematic quality of motion to it. It's a matter of taste what you like.
The handling is somewhat awkward in the video mode. One mandatory piece of equipment is a viewfinder for the LCD screen. The three that I'm aware of are Hoodman, iDC Photography (which I have) and the Zacuto finder. With that against your eye, the shots are somewhat steadier and makes viewing the screen in sunlight much easier.
Focusing is difficult. Even with the viewfinder you're manually focusing. It just takes a lot of practice to get the focusing down.
No built-in neutral density filters. You have to carry neutral density filters with you to control the exposure. At 30fps, the ideal shutter speed is 1/60th sec. for the most natural looking movement. In bright sunlight, you're looking at 1/60th at f/22 or f/32 depending on your ISO. There's no way to adjust your depth-of-field without changing your shutter speed which in turn affects the look of motion in your video -- think "Saving Private Ryan." Plus, you'll have to carry neutral density filters in different thread sizes depending on your lenses or get a matte box assembly.
Limited zoom range. Video cameras have 10x-20x zooms. You're constantly changing lenses to frame your shots.
Poor audio control. The auto gain control is fine for point and shoot video. With a constant noise, it's ok. During quiet moments you'll notice lots of hiss . There is a Beachtek for the 5D that is supposed to suppress the auto gain control, but my experience has been a hiss in the background which I removed by running the audio file through a low-pass filter. Sound still wasn't great. Other's have had better luck. I need to experiment with the Beachtek some more.
These are the main thoughts that come to mind when considering a DSLR for video work. Good luck to you. |
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David Harpe, Photographer
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Louisville | KY | USA | Posted: 5:02 PM on 11.29.09 |
->> It really all depends on what you are shooting. A 5D2 is a fun camera for certain types of shots, and in low light it's nothing short of spectacular. It looks gorgeous when you set things up correctly.
But shooting video with a 5D2 is a real hassle compared to shooting with a purpose-made video camera. All of the things Myung mentioned are true - audio being to me the most significant drawback, focus difficulty being the second.
So what's all that mean? If I'm in a situation where I can't control my environment, need to get the shot quickly or on the first or second take only, and the primary content I'm trying to produce is video, I'm going to use a dedicated video camera like an XH-A1 or Z7U.
If I'm in a situation where I have the freedom to play around a bit with shot setup, don't mind doing a couple of test takes, and can do retakes if something is wonky, I'll use the 5D2. The 5D2 also wins if I have to have excellent low-light capability, or if I'm in a situation where I can only afford to pack a single kit to do both video and stills.
I like having both tools in the kit. I don't think I'd be happy only having a 5D2 for video capture. |
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David Shea, Photographer
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Riverside | CA | USA | Posted: 9:08 PM on 11.29.09 |
->> I concur with everything Myung and David said.
I own a 5D Mark II and love using it. The low light video is impressive and the depth of field is both fantastic and a burden on old eyes at 2.8. But it's definitely not a general purpose tool, that's for sure.
As Myung said, exposure can be a challenge. And there is a whole cottage industry being built around the deficiencies of stability, audio and focus. These limitations will dampen the spontaneity of what you shoot and how you shoot it. Video cameras have these limitations too, but with auto focus and better ergonomics, their quickness and stability exceed that of the HSLR for chasing chaotic situations.
Video capable cameras like the 5D, Mark IV and D3s are more inline with filmmaking's structured paradigm than the bare bones, hand-held world of visual journalism but these cameras are still evolving...just like we are! |
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Myung Chun, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 9:37 PM on 11.29.09 |
->> Here's a link to a video I shot with only the 5DMk2. Additional equipment used were: Beachtek DXA-5D, Sennheiser MKE-400 mini-shotgun mic, Sennheiser Evo G2 wireless mics. Tripod was a gorilla pod.
http://tinyurl.com/ykoezb4
I had to hike 8 miles into the backcountry of Yellowstone with a 35 lb. pack and there was no way I could carry a video camera, even a small one, nor a tripod, even a lightweight one.
It did it's job but was not ideal. Audio sounds a little thin and is not of the greatest quality. I had to run this audio through a low-pass filter to remove background hiss. In this situation, the camera did double-duty adequately. |
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Andrew Kornylak, Photographer
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Atlanta | GA | USA | Posted: 9:38 PM on 11.29.09 |
->> Myung is right on the money here.
Right now you are MUCH better off picking up a good prosumer or even consumer-grade HD video camera if you are looking for an entry point. As you learn, you will just be frustrated and/or confused by the limitations of shooting video on a DSLR. Don't get me wrong - it's a mandatory exercise to go out and rent a D300s or 5dII and shoot with it for a day, edit the footage, and see what you think - but I would recommend getting into a real video camera.
Consider the Canon HV20 for example. It's kind of a cult classic for low-budget video, given that street price right now is around $350 or so and with the right workflow, you get full HD 1080 24p footage that is very high quality. It's a great way to jump in and learn video workflow which will be valuable no matter what camera you migrate to later.
Slap it on a steadicam, with a wide angle adapter or even 35mm adapter and you have a VERY good tool for both setup shooting and documentary coverage, for far below the investment of a DSLR. You will learn so much more in the process than banging your head against Live View.
my 2 cents |
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Doug Murray, Photographer
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West Palm Beach | FL | USA | Posted: 10:56 PM on 11.29.09 |
->> What everyone below has said is good advice and applies to the Nikon as well.
I have been playing around with the D300s and an external mic and I have been very impressed with both the video and audio quality.
The auto focus in the video mode hunts all all over the place so it is best to manually focus. The built-in mic is lousy on voices, so you will need an external mic to good audio quality.
The D300s and D3s are both limited to 720p at 24fps, so Canon has the edge in the video arena.
Once you learn the nuances and limitations of shooting video with a DSLR like the D300s you could make quality video like the two demos on the Nikon site as well as a TV commercial I saw that was made with a D90.
And like mentioned below, it makes it a lot easier to pick the best tool if you know what is the final product you want to produce. |
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PJ Heller, Photographer
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Santa Barbara | CA | USA | Posted: 2:56 AM on 12.01.09 |
->> Thanks for all the suggestions and advice.
I'm planning to rent a 5DMII and/or D300s just to see how they handle video, realizing that the add-ons for video on a DSLR can cost almost (or more) than the actual camera.
The idea of getting an HV30 or similar is an option; the only downside is having another piece of gear to carry. Even with some of the shortcomings of a video DSLR, which hopefully will be addressed in the near future, the idea of shooting stills and then video when you might want it (rather than doing frame grabs) has a lot of appeal.
Maybe it's time for Platypus. |
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