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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Should I buy the Mark V??
Monty Rand, Photographer
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Bangor | ME | USA | Posted: 1:56 PM on 11.25.09 |
| ->> I currently shoot with a 5D Mark II and a 7D. I love the 7D for sports. So far this camera has been money. The focus acquires the subject very fast and the AF has been excellent. I'm first on a list to get the new Mark V, but I'm not sure I need it. So my question is this.....is the Mark V worth getting?? Assuming the AF is fixed or lets say not like the Mark III, is it worth spending $5,000 on this? I'm not sure I can justify it. The 7D for $1800 has been great. Just wondering if the features of the Mark V are worth dropping $5,000 on. Interested to hear what others have to say. |
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Jack Howard, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Central Jersey | NJ | USA | Posted: 2:03 PM on 11.25.09 |
->> So, you're just going to go ahead and get on the preorder list for the Mark V and skip right over the Mark IV?
I guess that Jedi-vision 3D holography video mode was what sold you, huh? Me, too... |
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Donald Montague, Photographer
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Orlando | FL | | Posted: 2:13 PM on 11.25.09 |
->> Monty, i am in the same boat as you, my 7d has been awesome also, but the price tag on the Mark IV is just too high. at that price you could pick up three 7D's or 1 Mark IV. so i will probably pick up another 7D and look for some new glass.
just my 2 cents |
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Michael Granse, Photographer
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 2:22 PM on 11.25.09 |
->> If you love the 7D for sports you should continue using the 7D at least until you no longer feel The Love.
The street price of the Mark IV is not likely to increase over the next several months, so purchasing at the highest price the camera will ever command at a time when you do not really have to get one does not make much sense to me.
As your love for the 7D fades, if it ever does, then you may find that by then enough time has passed to bring the price of the Mark IV down a bit, and it could even create an opportunity to purchased a gently used Mark IV for an even greater savings.
There is no greater joy than having a camera that is paid for that still makes you smile when you use it! |
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Diana Porter, Photographer
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Houston | TX | USA | Posted: 2:43 PM on 11.25.09 |
| ->> I am in the same boat. I love the 7D and just cannot justify the cost of the Mark IV right now. Worked great for NFL games as well. I think if you are a staffer and someone else is going to buy it, then by all means go for the Mark IV. But for me, who is scraping for assignments, the 7D is a dream. |
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Ian L. Sitren, Photographer
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Palm Springs | CA | USA | Posted: 2:44 PM on 11.25.09 |
| ->> Would it make more money for you? |
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Phil Hawkins, Photographer
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Fresno | ca | usa | Posted: 3:06 PM on 11.25.09 |
| ->> The question is one of build quality. I dare say the shutter on the 7D is good for maybe 100,000 to 150,000 actuations. The MKIV is good for twice that number. Moisture sealing, vibration resistance, general durability is the difference. Decide how badly you're going to thrash your camera and then decide. If you're going to stay with the 7D and use it for sports photography on an ongoing basis, then join CPS as soon as you can. |
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Diana Porter, Photographer
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Houston | TX | USA | Posted: 3:19 PM on 11.25.09 |
| ->> From what I can tell the 7D is built much better than the Mark II N which I have been thrashing faithfully for almost 4 years now. Those were only good for maybe 90,000 on the shutters and they actually went twice that before I had to replace them. |
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Matthew Sauk, Photographer
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Sandy | UT | United States | Posted: 3:53 PM on 11.25.09 |
| ->> To be honest the shutter is only good for how ever long before it breaks :) lol |
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Joseph Toth, Photographer
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Cambridge | UK | United Kingdom | Posted: 4:03 PM on 11.25.09 |
->> Monty,
A few people have hit the nail on the head. Are you going to make more money from the camera? If your 7D is doing the trick stick with it. I recently moved to the Nikon D3 from Canon, only because my jobs were suffering because I wasn't getting the best pictures possible. Now the D3s is on its way, I would love to have a couple of those. But no one is knocking down my door to do video at the moment... better yet, no one is offering to pay me to do video. I will go and learn video so I am prepared.
But I would wait on the MkIV - let them work out all the bugs and let the price drop a grand or so. You'll feel better when you can buy that camera for $3000 opposed to $4500.
Joe |
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Monty Rand, Photographer
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Bangor | ME | USA | Posted: 4:10 PM on 11.25.09 |
->> yeah, sorry for the typo.......I got screwed again by trying to multi task......3D holography video mode is what sold me :)
I'm not hard on my gear because I'm paying for it so I need to take care of it. The 7D does seem to be built pretty decent. I've only had one shutter go and I've owned just about every digital SLR Canon has made going to back to the DCS520 which was a Kodak/Canon camera back about 11 years ago. I've never had any issues with any of them except for 2 1D mark II's that at the same time developed a focus issue and Canon replaced them both for me. |
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Mitch Stringer, Photographer
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Baltimore | MD | USA | Posted: 6:03 PM on 11.25.09 |
| ->> If the 7D is very durable and does all you need, then $300 for a new shutter 125,000 or 150,000 actuations down the road is not a big deal compared to the $3,200 difference between that and the Mark IV. I just received a 7D and with limited shooting so far like it a lot. Some new features, buttons and knobs to get down and second nature but its a lot of camera. Kind of shocking for the money, but I am not complaining. The black and white shooting feature is very nice for those shots you'd like to capture quickly and return to color. |
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Matthew Sauk, Photographer
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Sandy | UT | United States | Posted: 6:28 PM on 11.25.09 |
->> Mitch,
Black and white feature? did I miss that option? How? |
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N. Scott Trimble, Photographer
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Lake Oswego | OR | USA | Posted: 9:28 PM on 11.25.09 |
->> Last I heard, Speed Racer still owned the Mark V, but he's selling it, I would definitely go for it!! Heck, with all the other functions in that car, I bet it has a superfast focusing 100MP camera too!
"Go speedracer...go speedracer...go speedracer Go-ooooooo!" |
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Derek Regensburger, Photographer
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Thornton | CO | United States | Posted: 10:06 PM on 11.25.09 |
| ->> I would save for the Mark IV. I bought a 7d. The ergonomics were great and so was the autofocus. The image quality sucked. All images were soft and did not stand up well to sharpening. Examining the files against my Mark II, there was no comparison. Although the 7d seemed about a stop better at high ISOs, after sharpening it lost its edge. At 400 and under, the Mark II blew it away. I would wait and buy the Mark IV when the price comes down. |
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Monty Rand, Photographer
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Bangor | ME | USA | Posted: 7:30 AM on 11.26.09 |
| ->> Derek, I'm surprised you don't like the image quality. Mine has been dead on with the AF and the files have looked awesome. I always run any high iso files through Noise Ninja and that helps alot. The files look great. Takes a little tweaking, but you can get some nice looking files from high ISO. |
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Mark Peters, Photographer
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Highland | IL | USA | Posted: 10:04 AM on 11.26.09 |
->> Derek -
Were you comparing the files at native resolution or resized to match? |
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Dennis Wierzbicki, Photographer
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Plainfield | IL | USA | Posted: 11:50 AM on 11.26.09 |
->> FWIW, I was talking to one of the local AP shooters last week who had a MkIV on loan at the last Bears home game and he said the AF was problematic (similar to the early MkIII's in his opinion) and the color was "off".
I'm sure we'll get a slew of early adopter reviews in the coming months. I'm waiting for the onslaught of experience that will come from the Vancouver Olympics to give the new Canon body the full workout before considering one. For now, my stable of MkIIn's will have to do the trick. |
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Luke Trottier, Photographer
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Bath | ME | US | Posted: 12:18 PM on 11.26.09 |
->> Camera bodies are a crappy investment. If you think the additional features of the 1D Mark IV doesn't justify the price tag then I would wait.
As for the 7D. I have put 620,000 actuations and blown two shutters on my 1D Mark III. I have a feeling if I was using a non-1 series body I would have had to replace a lot more than 2 shutters. |
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Craig Glaspell, Photographer, Assistant
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Murrieta | CA | USA | Posted: 12:28 PM on 11.26.09 |
->> I echo what Derek Regensburger said. I sold my 7d as the files were some of the worst canon images I have done.
As for the OP, do not buy a $5k body, you are happy with 7d and I imagine the 1d4 will not make you MORE money. It is really quite simple. |
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Mitch Stringer, Photographer
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Baltimore | MD | USA | Posted: 12:51 PM on 11.26.09 |
->> Black and white feature? did I miss that option? How?
Matthew, Canon calls the Black and White feature "Monochrome" and you can switch it on/off with a touch of a button. There are a few other Picture Styles as Canon calls them such as Portrait, Landscape and other modes that effect color density. I don't know that I will use any of the other styles other than to check them out once or twice but the Monochrome is a nice change. The image is only captured in B/W so choosing the same image in color is not an option, unlike capturing in color in a RAW format and adjusting to monochrome after the fact.
I will say that the vertical grip is necessary for me for sports shooting and it is a little bulky. I wear a large size glove so my hands are not small, but the grip seems a bit large. More so than the single piece vertical grip construction of a Mark III or Mark IV. This is not a big issue. Just something to mention for those with smaller hands. |
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George Bridges, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Washington | DC | USA | Posted: 2:35 PM on 11.26.09 |
->> Dennis,
I'll disagree with the report you got. I had a loaner MKIV to use for an NFL game and an NHL game and I think the colors look great, low noise in high ISO and the AF seems pretty good. I was able to follow players skating directly at me with no problem and even when a ref went between me and the player (Ovechkin who is fast) it kept the focus on the player after the ref cleared. |
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Peter Buehner, Photographer
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Orono | ME | USA | Posted: 3:13 PM on 11.26.09 |
->> I often shoot in venues that has lighting that makes it hard to get a good shot. Picture a pool shooting divers and getting ISO 3200 F2 and 1/400. I don't like ISO 6400 with my camera so I am stuck.(and strobes are prohibited in diving) If I had a camera that could shoot the same venue at ISO 12,800 F2.8 and 1/800 with the same IQ...it would be easier to sell prints.
These venues are everywhere in sports, esp at the HS level and smaller colleges. (gymnastics, basketball, indoor track, etc)
To me the only appeal, but it is a big one, is its high ISO capabilities.
Now I know that Jeff Ascough didn't test the AI Servo performance but he says that the mark IV is better than the 5D II in terms of high ISO noise...if that is true, that is amazing. (and also maybe two stops better than the mark III)
I also find it hard to believe that canon could come up with a good AF in the 7D (as reported by many including in this thread) and somehow end up with a crappy AF in their flagship sports body.
I have one on pre-order but I can cancel anytime if something makes me nervous. As of now, I plan on buying. |
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Matthew Sauk, Photographer
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Sandy | UT | United States | Posted: 8:49 PM on 11.26.09 |
->> Craig,
I can't believe that to be honest. I am looking at my files and comparing them to all of the cameras I have shot (Rebel XT, 40D, Mark II, Mark IIn, Mark III, 1Ds Mark II, 5D and 5D Mark II) and it is comparable to a Mark IIn and just short of a Mark III.
It was the main reason I bought it after taking pictures at the store and coming home to analyze the images. I thought the image quality was excellent and high ISO was solid as the noise was small and easier to clean up |
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Nigel Farrow, Photographer
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Suffolk | UK | United Kingdom | Posted: 7:05 AM on 11.27.09 |
->> Monty,
A few observations.
Image quality is important and I think only you can judge whether there is a big enough difference to justify the expense by doing a side by side test of the two models.
The layout of the 7D looks very similar to the 5D MkII whilst you would need to be able to switch in your head to a different layout for using the MkIV and 5D MkII combination.
The MkIV requires different batteries so you will need to add the price of at least one additional battery to its purchase cost.
To the best of my knowledge the 7D like the 5DMkII only gives one back focus button option.
Price wise, here in the UK the MkIV is more expensive, at least at my usual stockist, than the 1DS MkIII !!! The MkIV will come down in price in, I am guessing, about three months. The 7D at the same retailer is down £500 to give you an idea of how prices have changed at least here since it was launched. That's 3 months in which the big agencies can be finding bugs, Canon fixing them and software manufacturers can be producing their required updates.
Personally if I am happy with the results from a camera body then I will stick with it unless the alternative will make a massive difference to what I am producing. |
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Michael J. Treola, Photographer
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Middletown | NJ | USA | Posted: 9:31 AM on 11.27.09 |
->> Matthew Sauk,
I echo what Derek Regensburger AND what Craig Glaspell said. My 7d file are the worst things I've ever seen from Canon. I guess that's what I get for buying a cheap camera - you get what you pay for. My body will go up for sale soon as there is nothing I like about it really - the images, the ergonomics and the high iso performance is laughable.
Tree |
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Peter Buehner, Photographer
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Clay Carson, Photographer
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Little Rock | Ar | USA | Posted: 10:55 AM on 11.27.09 |
->> A comment on the 7D. I found that high ISO images looked good at 1600, 3200, 6400 iso. But if I shot at an intermediate iso (like 4000 or 5000) the image quality is very poor. Someone told me (cannot remember who) that the APS-C sensor cameras did not really support "intermediate iso's". That the camera just underexposed or overexposed the "native iso's". Also, the the pro level cameras had a "second processor to handle the intermediate iso's".
Is this just nonsense or based in truth?
Clay |
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Max Waugh, Photographer
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Bothell | WA | USA | Posted: 12:42 PM on 11.27.09 |
->> I initially used the camera indoors at high ISO (2000-3200) and was pretty impressed with the image quality. Now that I've finally used it outdoors in better conditions (just shooting team portraits) I'm a bit surprised by the amount of noise at something like 640.
I still like the camera quite a bit, and consider it a big upgrade over my previous prosumer bodies, but the door is still open for an upgrade to the Mark IV or perhaps a brand switch down the road. |
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Michael J. Treola, Photographer
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Middletown | NJ | USA | Posted: 2:13 PM on 11.27.09 |
->> "I'm a bit surprised by the amount of noise at something like 640."
That is exactly what I'm experiencing. Unless the sun is behind me with the subjects in perfect light I get muddy ugly exposures full of noise in the midtone and shadow area.
Even bracketing thinking the camera meter is off just makes things exponentially worse so its clearly not me failing at the technical aspects of image creation but more to do with the camera itself.
Tree |
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Max Waugh, Photographer
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Bothell | WA | USA | Posted: 2:28 PM on 11.27.09 |
->> Tree, in my case the sun actually came out behind me and it was nice light. There is still some noticeable noise, not just in the darker purples of the jerseys, but in the skin tones as well.
And to clarify (since I've already received an email), I'm referring to the 7D. I haven't had the privilege of touching a Mark IV. ;)
Max |
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Chuck Steenburgh, Photographer
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Lexington | VA | USA | Posted: 4:25 AM on 11.28.09 |
->> Speed Racer drove the "Mach 5." Will typos never cease?
I think camera makers should go the way of software companies and just go with year and descriptive titles.
Canon Ultimate Studio 2007 (1Ds Mk III)
Canon Ultimate Speedy 2009 (1D Mk IV)
Nikon Ultimate Speedy 2009 (D3s)
Nikon Professional 2007 (D300)
Nikon Professional Video 2009 (D300s)
I probably got the years all wrong, but you get the idea.
The way technology rapidly advances, you soon run out of hair-splitting numbers (Nikon) or cats (Apple) or sound repetitious (Mk IV, Mk XXVII etc.). Plus the year would be a handy reminder of how badly you NEED to buy a newer model... |
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Daniel Putz, Photographer
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Owings Mills | MD | USA | Posted: 8:50 AM on 11.28.09 |
| ->> It's not nearly as cluttered as the AIB videocard market. (they really are out of numbers AND letters) |
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Monty Rand, Photographer
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Bangor | ME | USA | Posted: 2:19 PM on 11.28.09 |
| ->> I appreciate all the comments. I'm still on the fence as to whether or not I'm going to get one, but I'm sure it's going to be hard to say no when I get the call that it's in. |
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Peter Buehner, Photographer
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Orono | ME | USA | Posted: 4:14 PM on 11.28.09 |
->> Monty,
I am on three waiting lists and one of them since the morning of the announcement. I know you are at Alfond at times. If mine comes in I will let you know. You are more than welcome to pop a card in it and shoot for a bit so you can take some images home to look at.
Either that or a UMaine basketball game should put the AF and high ISO to the test.
Peter |
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Monty Rand, Photographer
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Bangor | ME | USA | Posted: 3:09 PM on 11.29.09 |
| ->> Thanks for the offer. I've thought about putting my strobes back in there, but I really don't want to deal with the pain of doing that for a handful of games I shot for them. |
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