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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Charge rate for very
Brandon McKenney, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Portland | ME | United States | Posted: 1:13 PM on 10.27.09 |
->> I freelance sometimes for a local business magazine, normally amounting to executive portraits and things like that. Last month they put out a "best places to work" issue and asked me to take quick group photos of a few businesses. I didn't put any special effort into these, mainly just organized the employees and snapped a quick photo. In and out in 5 minutes, boom.
Some of the businesses are now asking for a digital file of their company's photo. Part of me is willing to just give them the file because it's not as if the photo means anything to me or will earn me any money in the future. Or should I ask a fee for the file still, even if it's a simple snapshot? If so, how much? |
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Brandon McKenney, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Portland | ME | United States | Posted: 1:14 PM on 10.27.09 |
| ->> Apparently I didn't finish typing my subject line, that should say "Charge rate for very simple photo" |
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Scott Schild, Photographer
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Buffalo | NY | United States | Posted: 1:26 PM on 10.27.09 |
| ->> It's already earning you money! I would license it to them for there current needs and hold on to your copyright in case they want it later on. |
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Monty Rand, Photographer
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Bangor | ME | USA | Posted: 1:32 PM on 10.27.09 |
| ->> Depending on the business, maybe do a trade out? If it's a restaurant, you get a free meal or two? I'm friends with numerous business owners (Bars & restaurants) and the always want photos. I just do a trade out for free food and drinks. In my experience, I've made out quite good doing this. It's weird how people will give away $100 worth of food and drinks, but hate cutting a check for $50 or $75 for a photo. |
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Nik Habicht, Photographer
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Levittown | PA | USA | Posted: 1:38 PM on 10.27.09 |
| ->> It's actually not weird --- because that $100 worth of food and drinks doesn't cost them $100. On top of that, they often don't have to explain that trade, the way they would have to justify the $50-75 expense of cutting a check for the image to their bosses.... |
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Bruce Twitchell, Photographer
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Coeur d'Alene | ID | USA | Posted: 1:45 PM on 10.27.09 |
->> First- I would not be advertising that I did not put any special effort into a photo that someone hired me to do. Based off of that comment I would not hire you in the future. If I am paying someone to get a shot for me, I want them putting "special effort" into it, no matter what the shot is.
Second- If someone is wanting the photo, it has value to them so they should be paying for it. Maybe I am a sap but each and every photo that I have shot has meaning to me. It is people that I have met, people that I was able to capture in a photo. Who knows when that photo will need to be used again? There are literally countless reasons that a group photo could be used/needed again in the future. For this reason alone it should have value to you.
You state they want it for the company photo- do they want the digital file to use in advertisements? A print of it? What do they want? If they don't use your photo they will have to go through the hassle of getting everyone together again, hiring a photographer, and getting the shot again. Your photo has value. Don't think it doesn't.
In the future, put more value in yourself and your work. |
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Mike Shepherd, Photographer
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Wichita | KS | USA | Posted: 2:08 PM on 10.27.09 |
->> " ... it's not as if the photo means anything to me or will earn me any money in the future."
On the contrary, it sounds as though it very well could earn you some money in the very NEAR future by the fact that the companies involved want access to it.
Man, when are people going to stop thinking their work is worthless? Regardless of how simple it was for you to take, the bottom line is that it's a photo they, most likely, could not have captured for themselves. |
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Robert Beck, Photographer
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Carlsbad | CA | USA | Posted: 2:28 PM on 10.27.09 |
| ->> You ought to read the thread started by Mr. Work (sadly, no pun intended). He's pulling his wang through his wok because he's not getting paid for images he gave away. Now you are debating doing the same thing and I'm going to have to read about it. AGAIN. What is a "quick" photo? Did it really take you five minutes? How did you get there? Car? Bike? Walk? How long did it take you to get there? Did the file transmit automatically to your client? How did they get a hold of you to get you to pull your quickie? Phone? Letter? Did you have to go down to grab the company equipment or use your own? Maybe you rented. Again.....Do what you want with your photos. But if you give them away and get stiffed DON'T BITCH ABOUT IT HERE. |
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Monty Rand, Photographer
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Bangor | ME | USA | Posted: 3:15 PM on 10.27.09 |
| ->> Nik, I do take into account that $100 on the menu doesn't equal $100 cash. Don't get me wrong, I don't do this with all my clients, just a select few. |
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Alan Look, Photographer
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Bloomington/Normal | IL | United States | Posted: 3:18 PM on 10.27.09 |
| ->> Remeber Bartering is taxable, but how do you barter with the IRS? |
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Carl Walsh, Photographer
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Dayton | Me | USA | Posted: 4:51 PM on 10.27.09 |
->> Brandon, It doesn't matter if you consider it "just a snapshot". This is the extra money you can make on it. It obviously has some value to them or they wouldn't be asking for it.
I too am a photographer in the Portland area. I shot a portrait of Maine business exec for a small Maine business magazine more than a decade ago, and sold it to the company for more than 10 times what I got on the shoot. Not to say that you would or should get that, but you should get something. Its not fair to you, or good for the industry, to simply give away our work. Find out exactly what they want to use it for and price it accordingly. Fotoquote is a good place to determine the usage. This program will give you a price range for a very specific usage.
If they just want to have it around to use at will for whatever they want it for, then this would constitute Unlimited Use which, depending upon how big and profitable the company is, the fee could be into thousands of dollars. It is certainly up to you what you choose to do, but, since you were asking, I say make them pay and pin them down to a specific use. If they need to use it again, charge them again. |
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N. Scott Trimble, Photographer
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Lake Oswego | OR | USA | Posted: 8:01 PM on 10.27.09 |
->> Brandon, YOU are the very reason there is a problem with this industry.
Now, I am NOT attacking your character, and I am not attacking your expertise.
But I am pointing a finger at your judgement.
I don't know what your plans down the road are in photography, whether you want to make a full blown career, but if you do, look at information by Editorial Photographers of America, ASMP, NPPA, etc. Business strategy is CRUCIAL if the business of photography is to survive, and I HATE the turn survive, because it should be THRIVE!
But it doesn't because too many photographers don't know the value of their product. The boiled down residue that emanates from coffee grounds amounts to a tiny fraction of cost, but as a whole, it is a juggernaut. Treat your special skill set and unique eye the same way. Business WANT your photos because it MEANS something to them. Your talent has shown through. Use critical judgement to determine the value, whether it be quick monetary, a project perhaps (Annual report work if you give them the photo under particular usage agreement) whatever. Determine the VALUE to YOU and make a business determination that benefits you and the industry you are in.
Just last week, a girl I know who is in a photography class bragged that a winery loved the photos she took when she and her husband were there drinking wine. They "begged" her for the photos and offered her money. She just gave it to them because "She didn't need the money." That just fuels the fire that is burning too many of us these days.
Take value in your work and your worth Brandon, remember, it isn't just any photo, it's YOURS. |
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Brandon McKenney, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Portland | ME | United States | Posted: 9:31 PM on 10.27.09 |
->> I guess I should clarify a few things.
I do value all of my work. Every single photo I take and every minute I am working. My time is money and my eye earns me more money.
That being said, I look at the photos in question as VERY basic images. These required almost no talent whatsoever to take. That's what made me question if I should ask for a fee in the first place.
I completely understand the concern photographers have with other photographers giving away photos, and I would almost never do that for the very reasons stated in some of your responses.
Perhaps it's a lapse of my own judgment to not consider every photo I take of equal value, but sometimes I don't I guess.
I will ask for a fee though, and I'll do the research to figure out what makes sense for these particular images.
Thank you all.
P.S. Monty, I like your idea as a different way to get paid. Unfortunately many of these companies were healthcare providers or other medical firms. I don't think they're into giving healthcare away :). |
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Jeff Martin, Photographer
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wellington | OH | usa | Posted: 9:34 PM on 10.27.09 |
->> I don't think they're into giving healthcare away :).
Brandon, you are so right. They do health care for a living.
Stop me if you see where I'm going with this....... |
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Brandon McKenney, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Portland | ME | United States | Posted: 9:38 PM on 10.27.09 |
->> I should also mention that I had a bit of a "sign" today, just after posting this thread. I'm a sports writer/photographer for a local paper and after posting this thread I was out on assignment for a few playoff soccer games.
At one I was standing next to two gentlemen, who I assume were parents, and they were taking photos. I'm not one to have a problem with them being on the end line taking photos next to me, but this was the first time I overheard a parent talking about their photography. They were talking about giving photos to other parents and that sort of thing. While this doesn't affect my income directly since they aren't infringing on my marketplace (newspapers), it did boil my skin a bit. I can see why people get upset about this sort of thing, but this was the first time I really experienced firsthand.
So maybe that was my little taste of karma telling me the right answer to my questions. |
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Brandon McKenney, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Portland | ME | United States | Posted: 9:39 PM on 10.27.09 |
->> Oh I see where you're going Jeff. I knew that response was coming as soon as I hit the 'publish' button.
Again, I've seen the light and I'll rack this up to a lapse of my own judgment.
Thanks again everyone. |
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N. Scott Trimble, Photographer
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Lake Oswego | OR | USA | Posted: 4:16 AM on 10.28.09 |
->> No worries, Brandon. Just remember. You chose this as your profession, so always be professional, even when the photos being requested don't reflect your personally best work. I have had lots of portraits over the years that were requested maybe I didn't think much of, but then again, put yourself in their shoes, when did you have a technically dud photos of yourself actually be one of your favorites? Something about how you were standing, what you were thinking at the time, the first photo that damn forehead zit was finally gone, maybe its THAT for them, and and worthwhile indeed!
As for the parents, its a free country, if they can give it away, then that is their right. I think many people are clueless to the business we try to sustain, but I hear people sometimes that seem to want to screw those who have a business doing things, and that bugs me.
Then again, I've changed peoples brakes, offered my medical advice, driven people around, and stomped on a fire once, and served coffee up to friends and offered a rubber band and 5lb weight to a friend who was insecure to his manhood size; I hope the mechanic, doctor, taxi driver and firefighter, barista and that girl with the annoying voice for Extenze don't hunt me down for disrupting their business... 8 P |
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Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
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San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 10:21 AM on 10.28.09 |
->> This is a rare example of exposure being worth something. Don't discard that value by giving the images away.
--Mark |
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Sherrlyn Borkgren, Photographer
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Eugene | OR | USA | Posted: 5:39 PM on 10.28.09 |
->> Bruce I appreciate your getting to the bottom line up front.
The Difference between a professional photographing a "straight forward picture" (a mugshot or a group picture) and an amateur is vast.
Differences begins with the pre-shoot, customer service, the consultation, the interaction and creativity (even in a group shot), and all that time after the actual photograph is taken.
There is a wide range of professional savvy that I offer from the moment the client meets me, until the last image is chosen. This relationship is often never ending. This separates me from "the other person with a digital camera".
If I may ramble for a moment...
I met someone recently whose best friend is a wedding photographer and gave some pictures to People Magazine. She had photographed, the marriage of a couple from the TV show Biggest Losers.
When I asked her why she "gave" them to the magazine she said because she figured that people would see her name and hire her.
I still don't know why she didn't think people would still see her name if she got paid for her work. From my experience the only people who ever see my name in magazines are curious photographers, not clients. |
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