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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
usage comparison
Stew Milne, Photographer
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Providence | RI | USA | Posted: 1:09 PM on 10.22.09 |
->> Does anyone have a good analogy of real world situations to explain to a client about photo usage? I'm tired of potential clients thinking that for a creative fee that they get to use the photos however they want and not have to pay any further usage fees. I've had two recent clients want all the rights to the images. The first I was able to talk to and explain usage rights, but the second is used to projects (2 hours) that will cost him $400 and he gets all the rights to the images.
I gave the client and estimate for a job which included my time/talent fee and usage fees. He's used to getting it all for $400. I'm sure this will fall through and he'll end up finding a photog in my area to do the shoot for his fee, but I'd like to educate him first.
Thanks,
Stew
P.S. Pag, come on, I know you have an opinion in this. :) |
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Robert Longhitano, Photographer
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North Wales | PA | USA | Posted: 1:17 PM on 10.22.09 |
| ->> Difference in $$ usually does it for me. If they are vague I quote a high buyout or unlimited usage license. In the next paragraph I "educate" them on how they can save money by only paying for what they really need. |
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Grant Gartland, Photographer, Assistant
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Bloomington | MN | USA | Posted: 1:19 PM on 10.22.09 |
->> I think the best would be like software. Companies spend time and effort to produce the product. And if you want to use it for 1 person it costs $XX.00, if you want it for 15 people it is $XXX.00, and if you want to have unlimited use, you should probably buy the company, or it will cost you $XX,XXX.00.
That really isn't an analogy, because technically speaking it is the same system, but most people don't think of it in that way.
That is the best I can come up with, but I am sure others out there have something better. |
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PJ Heller, Photographer
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Santa Barbara | CA | USA | Posted: 1:44 PM on 10.22.09 |
->> I like photographer Andrew Buchanan's logic in explaining the usage issue. He says it's like renting a DVD . . . you pay one price to rent it for a day, more if you keep it longer, even more if you want to own it and LOTS more if you want to license it from the studio to show to a crowd.
I've also seen people comparing usage to renting a car; you pay based on usage (time) but it doesn't mean you own the car.
As far as ownership of material, Buchanan uses the example of a band hired for a wedding that plays an original song for the first time. Just because someone hired that band doesn't mean they own the song.
There's lot of info on usage available from photo organizations (try APA, ASMP, ED etc.). |
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Chris Morrison, Photographer, Assistant
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Tucson | AZ | USA | Posted: 1:50 PM on 10.22.09 |
| ->> The problem with that analogy, Grant, is that lots of people don't pay attention/understand software licensing either and lots of software gets "stolen" for the same reasons photos get "stolen". Stolen is in quotes because it's really the usage of the intellectual property that gets stolen rather than the actual property. Nonetheless to the photographer or software developer it's theft, but unfortunately it's not considered theft for most ordinary people. (i.e. they don't feel guilty about it) |
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Stew Milne, Photographer
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Providence | RI | USA | Posted: 2:07 PM on 10.22.09 |
| ->> The car one is good. I actually thought of something similar when after a client and I had negotiated a price for an assignment, they told me they "needed" the rights to the images too. I told the client that changed everything. It's like you rent a car for a certain rate and once you've driven off you tell the rental company that you won't be returning it, because it's yours now. Ah ha ha ha! |
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Curtis Clegg, Photographer
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Sycamore | IL | USA | Posted: 3:18 PM on 10.22.09 |
->> Try comparing images to music.
Consumers pay one price for a CD or an MP3. Radio stations pay a little more to broadcast that intellectual property to a larger audience. A movie producer would pay even more to use that exact same content in a movie, and an advertiser would pay a whole lot to be able to feature the song in an advertising campaign.
I'm sure Nike paid more than $.99 to use the Beatles song "Revolution" in one of their commercials. |
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Manuello Paganelli, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 2:36 AM on 10.23.09 |
->> Stew am traveling but you are right I do have an opinion :)
BAck to LA on Saturday and on Sunday flying to Chicago. lemme try to shoot you something. you got some great comments here already but there is a bit more to it. If ur in a rush go to EP www.editorialphoto.com and post it. Lots of wise friends in there that can give you something solid.
Gotta dash
pag
www.ManuelloPaganelli.com |
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N. Scott Trimble, Photographer
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Lake Oswego | OR | USA | Posted: 3:20 AM on 10.23.09 |
->> The car analogy is a good one. Also, look up Blake Discher. He has good advice as well.
I had a client once who didn't understand it either when we met at a Starbucks. I was in line with him and ordered a Mocha Grande. They asked for the $3.75 it cost, and I gave them $.50. They wanted more, and I told them I only wanted to pay what I thought it was worth. The client was getting antsy, the line behind us was getting unruly, until I paid. I turned to the client and told him "see?" My prices aren't arbitrary either. They follow a market demand for the peers in my field and based upon my reasonable profit and CODB. |
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Stew Milne, Photographer
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Providence | RI | USA | Posted: 2:12 PM on 10.30.09 |
->> Just an update. After I quoted a very reasonable fee to cover an event, the client has found another photographer on my area to shoot it for the fee (less than $400) the client was wanting. Remember, the client wants the rights to do whatever he wants with the images, w/o further compensation to the photographer.
So, here's a follow up question. Would any of you try to contact the photographer that is going to shoot the event to educate them on what they are giving up and how they are hurting the industry? |
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