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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
My Photos Are Pink
David Gordon, Photographer
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Somerville | MA | United States | Posted: 12:55 PM on 09.30.09 |
->> Don't mean to be a grouch, but printing on pink paper to raise awareness of breast cancer makes my head spin.
http://home.wickedlocal.com/
Apparently, we don't have a .pdf of the hard copy only anymore, but I'm sure you can imagine. |
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Bradley Leeb, Photographer
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 1:15 PM on 09.30.09 |
->> And it makes MY head spin to think that there are people out there who would be so self-centered as to think that anything is more important than a worthy cause such as working to save the lives of others.
Perhaps if my mother wasn't a 21 year survivor of breast cancer, I might feel differently. |
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David Gordon, Photographer
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Somerville | MA | United States | Posted: 2:02 PM on 09.30.09 |
->> WOW Bradley. You really hit the nail on the head.
Clearly, I'm more concerned with the way my images look than the saving lives. My beef with this stunt has nothing to do with my company pandering to ONE en vogue cause at the expense of producing a quality product that raises many serious issues in a measured responsible way.
Bradley, you've opened my eyes. Next month, I think we should print on brown paper to raise awareness of prostate cancer. |
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Mike Carlson, Photographer
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Bayonet Point | FL | USA | Posted: 2:05 PM on 09.30.09 |
->> Seriously? Printing it on pink to raise awareness of the disease which, according to the CDC: "Aside from non-melanoma skin cancer, breast cancer is the most common form of cancer in women. Breast cancer is the number one cause of cancer death in Hispanic women. It is the second most common cause of cancer death in white, black, Asian/Pacific Islander, and American Indian/Alaska Native women."
Grouch might be one of the nicer names your post might draw...(spoken as a cancer widower myself). |
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Mike Carlson, Photographer
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Bayonet Point | FL | USA | Posted: 2:13 PM on 09.30.09 |
->> David,
I see we posted at the same time...and while I see you referring to it as a "stunt" for one "en vogue" cause, the reality is that it is a significant enough cause that most all professional sports recognize as well - pink bats and wrist bands, pink hockey sticks...heck, go to NFL.com right now...it's pink.
While I agree there are enough other worthwhile causes, I think complaining about it and then belittling it as an "en vogue cause"...well, I'll let your words speak for themselves. |
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Jeff Mills, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Columbus | OH | USA | Posted: 2:18 PM on 09.30.09 |
->> David, I don't think I've ever heard anyone refer to attempts to raise breast cancer awareness as "pandering to ONE en vogue cause"
Hopefully I never will again either |
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Bill Ross, Photographer
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Colorado Springs | CO | USA | Posted: 2:30 PM on 09.30.09 |
| ->> You're kidding right? Please tell me you're kidding... |
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David Gordon, Photographer
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Somerville | MA | United States | Posted: 2:31 PM on 09.30.09 |
->> As a journalist, I'm all for COVERING this disease and the efforts many take to alleviate its effects on society in a responsible way (in fact, I have done so repeatedly in the past). I'm all for other organizations, like MLB, taking a stand. I'm all for (and have done so in the past) donating personal time/money to this particular cause.
But don't be fooled. This was a stunt to sell ads and raise good will at the same time. Newspapers should stay clear of taking such symbolic stands. We need to leave that to the MLB.
Finally, let me say that I, like many others have been personally effected by breast cancer. Its not a nice disease and it certainly deserves attention. To those who have been effected, my heart goes out to you. |
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Scott Serio, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Colora | MD | USA | Posted: 2:50 PM on 09.30.09 |
->> Long and short...well...you know I don't even know the way to respond to how asinine you are being. Not matter how you temper it, this is what you wrote to start off the thread:
"Don't mean to be a grouch, but printing on pink paper to raise awareness of breast cancer makes my head spin."
Brother, you might as well just buckle down, think about what you can do for Susan G. Komen, figure out the best possible apologies, just prepare for the storm coming your way. I don't even need to dress you down. Someone on here, whether a member or a lurker, has this thread in someone's mailbox and the storm is coming.
Everyone thought the Kelby sideline thing or the guy bashing the photo corps in Tampa was bad. This is much much worse. We aren't talking about printing on pink for Easter here, we are talking about breast cancer. Which, while common, is a horrible thing for survivors to deal with psychologically, not to mention the death toll.
If that ugly, pink paper made ONE WOMAN self-check and found a lump she was not aware of - IT WAS WORTH IT. If it saved one life. If it saved one woman from having a comlete mastectomy IT WAS WORTH IT. IT WAS WORTH MAKING YOUR PHOTO PINK. PERIOD!!!! GOT IT!!!!!! |
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Bradley Leeb, Photographer
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 2:54 PM on 09.30.09 |
| ->> Amen Scott. |
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Patrick Meredith, Photographer, Assistant
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Austin | TX | USA | Posted: 2:58 PM on 09.30.09 |
| ->> please delete this thread |
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Clay Carson, Photographer
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Little Rock | Ar | USA | Posted: 3:10 PM on 09.30.09 |
->> Speaking of colored paper and hopefully telling a funny story to break the tension...
My paper you to have a green sheet edition. It was the final afternoon edition and the front and back pages were printed on green paper. It was pretty ugly and thankfully we stopped doing it. However, a few years later we still had a bunch of green paper in the warehouse so someone had the bright idea to print the entire St. Patrick's day paper in green. Every page. I wis I still had a copy.
Clay |
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Andrew Carpenean, Photographer
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Laramie | WY | USA | Posted: 3:17 PM on 09.30.09 |
->> The Toledo Blade use to print the Peach Section once a week (I am thinking it was for the entertainment section).
I guess I don't mind the pink print if it only involves photos taking a backseat for a few runs and not interfering with a big photo project. |
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Shawn Lynch, Photographer
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New York | New York | USA | Posted: 3:20 PM on 09.30.09 |
| ->> Financial Times is printed on orange paper every day. I don't even think there's a reason for it. |
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Jack Howard, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Central Jersey | NJ | USA | Posted: 3:45 PM on 09.30.09 |
->> I rephrased a question/statement/line of discussion in this podcast all about photographers getting together to raise funds for Breast Cancer Research Foundation because I thought it came off as a little harsh:
http://www.adorama.com/alc/blogarticle/TechTock-Podcast-22-Kristen-Weaver
But what I originally said was along these lines:
"From my experiences, there seem to be two types of people in this world: Those that are all too aware of the devastating impact that Breast Cancer and Cancers in general has on people and families–and who can now speak and act bravely and openly about what is in all honesty terrifying to deal with, and those that are in willful denial, or oblivious denial, or worse, just miserable and jaded people who don't get involved at all."
Perhaps my personal redaction needn't have been edited out, in seeing this ridiculous example of hubris, ego, and self-inflated sense of self bordering on absurdity as exhibited by the originator of perhaps the basest thread ever to be posted to this community.
I'm terrified by cancer because of how it has touched my life too many times, but instead of hiding from it, I've found the strength to confront my fears and push though to speak honestly and openly about it.
It made me proud to be able to use my platform and mailing list to inform many photographers about the Images for a Cure project–and find many receptive ears on that list, including Photoshelter's Andrew Fingerman, who hadn't heard about it prior, but who immediately took action to get involved, and use their platform to help inspire more photographers to action, along with editors who alerted the NYPPA list to this fundraiser.
The research being done for breast cancer causes and treatments reaches and touches into all areas of cancer research development. The "cure" isn't any one fix, but a combination of early detection, and treatment options.
David, your follow-up remarks regarding "en vogue causes" and sarcastic prostate cancer awareness schemes are even more of a disappointment. Sometimes "responsible journalism" also involves knowing when to keep your trap shut.
And really, a newspaper taking a symbolic stand to show solidarity and perhaps use their far-reaching platform to encourage or inspire more people to action for an exceptionally worthy cause is in the category of the best sort of activist journalism that I can think of.
Now let's talk more about your snarky "brown paper" comment for a second, and less "sexy" cancers.
Olympus is very active in promoting awareness and screening for Colorectal Cancer–the second leading cause of cancer deaths in this country: http://www.crcawareness.com/ . In addition to making great cameras for photographers, Olympus also makes a very large percentage of the endoscopes in use in this country. They don't just make the 'scopes and leave it at that. They are exceptionally active in promoting CRC health and awareness. For many, this is an uncomfortable subject to even think about, but Colorectal Cancers are treatable when detected early. And heartbreaking when not detected early enough.
Research, awareness, and early detection, are all critical keys to managing and minimizing the devastating impact that all cancers have on our human existence. And I, like so many others among us, do not shy away or complain when someone, be it an individual or a corporation, uses their platform to raise funds and awareness for cancer causes. Even if you cannot do well or right by them yourself, at the very least do no harm.
I am embarrassed to see this thread started on Sportsshooter. At first I thought about simply leaving my words and thoughts unsaid, but David, I simply could not–moreso upon seeing your follow-up replies. And furthermore, I feel obliged to reach out to your Photo Editor and Managing Editor about this.
I strongly suggest you take a serious step back from your computer, take a nice long walk and try to figure out how in the heck you are going to face your supervisor and co-workers tomorrow morning. And then work on your letter of apology to every member and reader of these boards, because, you, at this moment, are an embarrassment to this community, your employer, and yourself.
Furthermore, Mr. Gordon, if you are so put-off by this obvious "feel-good stunt" by your paper, take a stand on your ethical high horse and tender your resignation. There's probably a hell of a lot of photographers up your way who'd be more than happy to take your position-even if their photos were occasionally printed on pink stock–and even if it does pay less than $12/hour, as you stated in a recent thread.
I have friends and loved ones–brave friends and loved ones–who are doing their best every day to live their lives to the fullest, despite their personal health challenges. I truly hope not one of them sees this thread and thinks for a moment that your pathetic and selfish, arrogant and foolish words in any way shape or form are representative of the community spirit of this community that I am usually so proud to be affiliated with. |
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Jack Howard, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Scott Serio, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Colora | MD | USA | Posted: 4:37 PM on 09.30.09 |
->> Personally, I vote not to delete the thread. The comments that follow show that the rest of us get it. Some do not. OK, one does not.
BTW...in the last seven years. Mother-in-law, 2 cousins, 3 close friends - dead from cancer. Mother is breast cancer survivor. Father-in-law undergoing chemo for throat cancer.
Mr. Gordon...see that little wave growing on the horizon, it will be pretty big by the time it gets to you for real. Pink paper? Really... |
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Sam Morris, Photographer
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Henderson (Las Vegas) | NV | USA | Posted: 4:50 PM on 09.30.09 |
->> David, you started one of the most asinine threads ever.
If you are a journalist, you should know that the business of newspapers is business. They exist to make a publisher money and they make money by selling ads. They do not exist to make your photos look pretty.
And if they can sell more ads by printing on pink paper and raising awareness for breast cancer at the same time, then good for them. You of all people should be happy because it is keeping your ass employed |
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Sam Morris, Photographer
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Henderson (Las Vegas) | NV | USA | Posted: 5:28 PM on 09.30.09 |
->> And David, I just read this on your paper's website:
"GateHouse will donate 10 cents from every pink newspaper sold in stores to the American Cancer Society that day and $5 from any subscription purchased by credit card during October. Local businesses can contribute by purchasing a pink ribbon in their ad for $25, which will be donated to the American Cancer Society. The company will also donate 10 percent of advertising packages purchased as part of the campaign."
What a crass stunt GateHouse is pulling just to sell ads. |
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Bradley Leeb, Photographer
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 6:10 PM on 09.30.09 |
->> I may get some "inappropriates", "huhs", and "off-topics" for kicking someone while they are down, but I'm just so incredibly riled up about this thread and its originator that I can't help myself.
FYI Mr. Gordon, you may also want to be aware that using a logo or character that is not yours for your icon is against Sportsshooter policy. Berkeley Breathed, created the "Bill the Cat" character for his Bloom County comic strip. |
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Scott Serio, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Colora | MD | USA | Posted: 6:48 PM on 09.30.09 |
| ->> Excellent. Now we know not only about the true character the originator of this thread, but we also know he doesn't even read his own paper. Think about that. Isn't that kind of against all we stand for? Kind of the antithesis to intelligent photojournalism. I know, I know, says the horse photographer... |
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Mark Peters, Photographer
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Highland | IL | USA | Posted: 8:29 PM on 09.30.09 |
->> I'll leave the vitriol to others, I just want to make a point.
Being a good corporate citizen and being a for profit enterprise are not mutually exclusive concepts. If being one enhances the other, that's just good business.
I've had cancer. It sucks. |
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Clay Carson, Photographer
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Little Rock | Ar | USA | Posted: 9:36 PM on 09.30.09 |
->> BTW: I tried to tell a funny story, but
Mom died of breast cancer
Mother in law died of Cancer
Wife had breast cancer. Thank God she is fine
I think pink paper is cool.
Clay |
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Jack Megaw, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Pittsburgh | PA | America | Posted: 9:56 PM on 09.30.09 |
->> David,
As somebody who has had several family members and friends who have had and some who have died as a result of cancer I am very offended by your conduct in starting and continuing to comment in this thread.
For your sake I hope you have not burnt too many bridges.
-Jack |
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Jeff Martin, Photographer
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wellington | OH | usa | Posted: 10:09 PM on 09.30.09 |
->> >Now we know not only about the true character the originator of this thread<
This might be over reaching. David just voiced his opinion on a method of raising awareness. He didn't come out in favor of breast cancer. The freedom of expression frequently makes us (and by "us", I mean me) wish we had never exercised it. |
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Jim Colburn, Photo Editor, Photographer
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McAllen | TX | USA | Posted: 10:42 PM on 09.30.09 |
| ->> Correction: The Financial Times is printed on Salmon colored (or coloured) paper... |
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Eric Neitzel, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Clinton | UT | USA | Posted: 10:52 PM on 09.30.09 |
->> Wow...in one post David became the Mel Gibson of SS...
And by the way, great pictures look great no matter what color they are printed on. |
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Kevin Seale, Photographer
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Crawfordsville | IN | United States | Posted: 11:33 PM on 09.30.09 |
->> I don't know, Eric. I have heard many people over the years say many of the same things Mel Gibson ranted on about but David is the first I have ever heard publicly classify breast cancer awareness as an en vogue cause.
Not that it justifies it, but at least Mel was drunk as a skunk when he overreacted to being arrested in the middle of the night by a person he perceived to be of the race he attacked.
David took time to create a typed statement with no provocation in the middle of the afternoon because his out of register, 300% dot gain, newsprinted images were being printed on pink paper for one day.
Level of drunkenness is hard to assess but one has to wonder. |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 12:29 AM on 10.01.09 |
->> Wow. What another train wreck of a thread. I'm a cancer survivor and my mom is a breast cancer survivor. I was just shocked to read that breast
cancer, hell any cancer would be considered an "en vogue" cause. I guess I wasn't so much shocked as wondering why anyone would make such an idiotic statement. And all because your photos were printed on pink paper for one edition? You sir, need a SERIOUS reality check. |
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Alan Herzberg, Photographer
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Elm Grove | WI | USA | Posted: 11:24 AM on 10.01.09 |
->> I think many of you have ascribed to David an intent and a callousness that I doubt is really there. Man, there is a ton of good stuff on this board, but people sure are eager to pounce and then pick the carcass clean whenever the opportunity arises. I easily understand why people were offended by the words David used ("pandering to one en vogue cause"). However, when I first read them, I took his words to reference a cause that has caught the public's attention in a way that other similar, worthy causes have not. I did not read the words as a slam against the fight against breast cancer (I've had three family members with breast cancer, fwiw).
His original post seems pretty innocuous - the pink paper used by the newspaper makes his head spin. Big deal. I don't see him minimizing the significance of breast cancer with that comment. And his third post seems to emphasize his awareness that breast cancer affects many people and the fight against it is a worthy cause.
As for his point that the newspaper's decision to print on pink (salmon) paper was more a ploy to attract attention and ad dollars for the newspaper than anything else, that seems worthy of consideration. It's a legitimate question to raise.
I don't know David and I am well aware that my post here may invite invective similar to what he received, but I really don't enjoy seeing someone left twisting in the wind. Yeah, his choice of words wasn't what mine would have been, but I'd still sit down and have a beer with the guy and I'd probably enjoy the experience more than he would.
I was going to send an email to David offering some support, but then I figured that was kind of a coward's way out. Might as well do it in public and accept the backlash that comes with it. |
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Dave Breen, Photographer
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Somerset | PA | USA | Posted: 12:03 PM on 10.01.09 |
| ->> I agree, Alan. |
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David Gordon, Photographer
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Somerville | MA | United States | Posted: 2:01 PM on 10.01.09 |
->> I would like to apologize to everyone who I have offended. While my comments were never meant to hurt anyone personally, or bash this worth cause in any way, it has become painfully clear that my language did not reflect my motivation. I am saddened and embarrassed by this fact. More importantly, I am deeply sorry.
Referring to Breast Cancer Awareness as "en vogue" displayed extremely poor judgement on my part, and should have no place in any discussion. Such language does nothing but antagonize those who I respect and admire, and upset people who have already been hurt by this disease.
To those who work on behalf of Breast Cancer Awareness, I am deeply sorry for my offensive language. Your hard work was met by callus and inflammatory rhetoric, and you deserve better. I, in no way, intended to minimize or belittle this important cause, though, my language did just that, for which I am truly ashamed and sorry.
To those who have been personally effected by Breast Cancer, I am almost at a loss. I am sickened to know that my comments hurt so much and to so many. I'm not sure there is an appropriate apology in this case, but please know that I never meant to upset anyone, particularly those who have already been wounded by cancer. Further, good intentions do not, nor should not excuse my incendiary language. It was selfish and nothing short of stupid, plain and simple. Please know that I am enormously sorry.
While I doubt that this will completely alleviate the pain I have caused, I hope it will stem the bleeding. Again, my sincerest apologies to everyone I have offended. |
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Jack Megaw, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Pittsburgh | PA | America | Posted: 2:30 PM on 10.01.09 |
->> Whilst I don't want to continue this thread I genuinely do appriciate David's apology. (Someone who also had the class to phone me personally to apologise)
I am extremely offended that somebody marked my previous post as "Inappropriate."
To whomever marked it:
"Inappropriate: Should be used only when something truly offensive has been said. Something rude, racist, or blatantly disrespectful. This is NOT used to disagree with a person's opinion. To disagree with an opinion you would POST YOUR OPINION as a message. This rating should be hardly ever used, since we can count on one hand how many times in the past year that it could have been used."
-Jack |
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Scott Serio, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Colora | MD | USA | Posted: 2:45 PM on 10.01.09 |
| ->> I concur. He had the stones to find my phone number and call me to apologize. That takes guts. I have to give him credit for that.... |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 3:12 PM on 10.01.09 |
| ->> Ditto. He spoke with me also. I told him to move forward, we ALL make mistakes. |
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Jack Howard, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Central Jersey | NJ | USA | Posted: 2:03 PM on 10.02.09 |
->> Well spoken, David.
All to often it is too easy to forget that we, as photographers and journalists, are professional communicators, and that our words and images may be interpreted very differently than our intentions. Sometimes the results are comical, other times not so much.
The printed word on the web is a very different beast, as we learn more and more each day, through lessons such as this. And all too often, it is easy for situations to escalate to a terrible point, because there isn't as clear a casual/formal breakdown in community forums as there is in business communications or in real-world social settings.
Nuances of sarcasm can be lost. Body language and tone cannot be inferred or implied. And sometimes, honestly, it would be great if the entire web had an "undo" button.
I received your message, and will telephone you early next week. |
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Dave Breen, Photographer
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Somerset | PA | USA | Posted: 4:40 PM on 10.02.09 |
->> That David personally apologized to the more "vocal" of the offended members does indeed demonstrate he now understands that he was misunderstood.
That this is yet another thread that deteriorated into an attack on the originator is sad. |
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Alex Blackwelder, Student/Intern
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Powell | TN | USA | Posted: 11:58 PM on 10.02.09 |
->> Wow, I am not commenting on this thread in general, but I am very saddened by how affected some SS members have been by cancer in their lives. As someone who has only experienced one distant cancer death, (friend's mother), my hearts go out to all of you. It is extremely frightening that as I get older I might have to go through similar situations.
-ab |
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Robert Smith, Photographer
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Brandon | MS | USA | Posted: 9:59 PM on 10.03.09 |
->> I am NOT a cancer survivor, but I have End Stage Renal Disease. I am a Kidney Transplant recipient and after 10 years am doing fine. I lost my mother to cancer at the age of 57. What I have found in the majority of cases is that most people don't have ANY idea how to react to "causes" unless they have been effected by diseases that they support.
It's more of an "outside looking in" kind of thing.
Bob |
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Nina Zhito, Photographer
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bay area | CA | | Posted: 12:38 AM on 10.04.09 |
->> ...to add just a little levity and sports pj history to this thread, the san francisco chronicle was long known for its "sporting green" sunday sports section -- the urppy-mint-ice-cream / ducolax green section cover page that was abandoned for many years, then recently resurrected after a redesign, to the delight of long-time readers and nostalgia buffs.
i am sure we are sensitive to the challenges faced by cancer survivors, and to the heartache suffered by their family and friends....
and i know we all struggle to color balance our photos and seek a good, distinct white-point.
fyi... the chronicle's sunday entertainment section is... the pink section.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Chronicle |
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Robert Scheer, Photographer
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Indianapolis | IN | USA | Posted: 8:57 AM on 10.05.09 |
->> Good point Nina,
Loved the daily Sporting Green, and looked forward to the Pink Section every week when I lived in the Bay Area.
As far as the topic at hand, everybody had their say? |
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