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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
What to charge for video?
Armando Solares, Photographer
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Englewood | FL | USA | Posted: 12:12 PM on 09.16.09 |
->> In recent months, I have been asked by clients to shoot video and edit for the web. Although, I have a pretty good idea what to charge for multi-media projects, and still photography. I have found out that video pricing varies widely.
Is there a place to go to research video pricing - perhaps something like fotoquote. I have fotoquote, but I did not find it as useful for video pricing.
Also, how do you charge for editing. That sometimes takes the longest. Do you have a set hourly rate? Do you charge per job? Do you charge for a complete project?
This is not just for me, but for others who are transitioning from staff photographers to running their own business. This is also for all those making the switch to HD/Still cameras.
I hope we get some great information.
thanks,
A- |
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Sean Popke, Photographer
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San Diego | CA | | Posted: 12:32 PM on 09.16.09 |
->> Costs vary depending on the type of gear you're using (Standard Def, High Def) and crew (of you have a sound person and/or grip), but I'd say $1200 a day is a good starting point. A half day rate, if you're open to that, would probably be around 50-70% of your day rate.
As for editing, I believe rates average about $150 and hour for Standard Def editing and $250 and hour for HD editing. Another way to charge would be per finished minute of video.
Hope this helps. |
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Jason Joseph, Photographer
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Dublin | OH | USA | Posted: 12:39 PM on 09.16.09 |
| ->> Another gauge to use when working on a "produced" project (meaning using a crew to film, editing, graphics, audio mastering, etc) is to estimate around $1000 per minute of finished, polished media. Usually this holds true, however there will always be circumstances that require different rates. |
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Ian L. Sitren, Photographer
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Palm Springs | CA | USA | Posted: 9:57 PM on 09.16.09 |
| ->> In L.A. I was the still shooter on two projects and co-producer on one as well as still shooter. Full crews, Red camera, sound people, grip trucks, catering, all of it. And it was a union production. I would put it closer to $3,000 per minute of finished delivered media. And that was being very budget and cost cutting conscious. |
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Andrew Malana, Photographer
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San Diego/Tokyo | CA | USA | Posted: 11:34 PM on 09.16.09 |
->> Sean mentions a good starting point for YOUR time as a videographer. Ingesting video, if shooting on tape has a cost, (if P2 or XDCAM factor costs as well), editing video content of course, and final encoding to your client's spec has a cost.
Then you must factor your admin costs such as insurance, office, etc.
There should be a preproduction cost as well. Time with client to go over spec, shoot/editing has a cost.
Then your expendables.
Traditionally the video side has/is a WFH type of deal. If you can negotiate rights and usage, more power to you.
Think of your entire work flow from acquisition to final deliverable. Each major step should have a cost. |
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Armando Solares, Photographer
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Englewood | FL | USA | Posted: 1:36 PM on 09.19.09 |
| ->> Thanks guys lots of good advice. Anyone else have anything to add? |
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N. Scott Trimble, Photographer
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Lake Oswego | OR | USA | Posted: 2:30 PM on 09.19.09 |
->> I know several people in Phoenix and here in Portland that have a rate of $550-1200/day NOT including the use of camera (or other gear, lights, sound, etc), which rents at separate price, usually the going rate of the local rental houses in your area. As far as pre and post, I would say the $150-250 sounds right.
Isn't it funny that video works so differently than still, and in some ways, much harder work or less buck?
At least, that is my observation! |
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Andrew Spear, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Athens | OH | United States | Posted: 7:58 PM on 09.19.09 |
->> I wouldn't recommend charging anything by the hour. Here's why: As you get used to something, you learn how to do it faster. Lets say it takes you 15 hours to produce a 2 minute multimedia piece @ $200 an hour. You're up to $3,000.
Say you keep doing these, and in 6 months you're able to produce a 4 minute multimedia in 15 hours. Suddenly you're billing $3,000 for twice the work and twice the content as before.
Just something to think about. |
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Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
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San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 9:10 PM on 09.20.09 |
->> Armando,
I agree with not charging by the hour unless you're working as a camera operator for somebody else's project.
I do have an hourly rate, but I ONLY use it internally to help compute fees for entire projects.
--Mark |
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Armando Solares, Photographer
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Englewood | FL | USA | Posted: 11:05 AM on 09.25.09 |
->> Thanks Mark and all, this is good information. I think as we transition from just being still photographers we need to start thinking about other options in marketing, billing other services like video.
I hope others will keep contributing to this thread. |
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David Harpe, Photographer
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Louisville | KY | USA | Posted: 12:31 PM on 09.25.09 |
->> The downside to not charging by the hour/day is if you miss your estimate or don't write a tight contract, you can really hose yourself. Depending on the client and your own level of experience, estimating how much time something is going to take before you have a single minute of footage shot can be difficult.
If you do a fixed price contract, you have to really make sure everyone agrees on what "finished product" means down to the nth detail. Is finished product an uncompressed quicktime delivered on a disc, a resized and recompressed youtube-ready version - or both? Do they expect big files to be FTP'ed somewhere? If so, that can take hours of time. If you're shooting to tape, did you budget capture time?
Editing is the most tricky thing to estimate, particularly if any effects work is involved. If the client gets to participate in edit decisions, how much back and forth do they get? If the client screws up a name spelling on a title or something and you have to rerender, who pays for it?
All of these things are addressable with contract language, but you have to know to write it all in there to cover yourself.
If you're just starting out shooting video and you don't know how to estimate (and don't have anyone with experience who can teach you), working for a day/hourly rate wouldn't be a bad thing until you get a feel for how long things will take - and how to work with clients.
When you're getting started, it's far better to at least get paid a fair rate for your time and maybe leave a little money on the table versus the alternative: Underestimating a job and working a dozen hours effectively "unpaid" while you dig yourself out of a hole.
It's never wise to speak in absolutes. Pricing models are tools - they all have a place and a proper use. It's all about learning which one works best for a given situation. |
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Armando Solares, Photographer
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Englewood | FL | USA | Posted: 12:36 PM on 09.25.09 |
| ->> Thanks David, I had not thought of some of the things you mentioned. Good info. |
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Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
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San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 7:21 PM on 09.25.09 |
->> David,
You're right that proposals have to be very detailed. But I limit my clients to a specific number of approval rounds and THEN they start paying me by the hour.
I also have a form that I keep with me during a shoot if the client wants me to shoot "just one more thing." I say no problem and have them sign-off for the additional fees on the spot.
For new clients, I also insist upon incremental payments with the final payment due upon delivery of the completed project.
--Mark |
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David Harpe, Photographer
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Louisville | KY | USA | Posted: 10:59 PM on 09.25.09 |
->> I limit my clients to a specific number of approval rounds and THEN they start paying me by the hour.
Mark, that's exactly what I was saying. You use both a "project" flat fee and hourly rates where appropriate...which is different from your previous statement that you only use hourly rates as an internal thing.
The approach you lay out is very sane and covers some aspects of the process. Post-production for newbies can be a deep dark hole if they don't have a few projects under their belt, and/or if they aren't as experienced as you are at writing contracts. An hourly/day rate can be protection in those situations. |
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