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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Opinions on "Photography Agreement" ....
Cecil Copeland, Photographer
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Marietta | Ga | USA | Posted: 11:13 PM on 09.04.09 |
->> Hi all .....
The following Photography Agreement has been making the rounds here locally ... It's a publication and they've contacted me about working for them and several friends of mine; and the following is the actual wording from their "contract" about what they expect from the photographer and what the photographer can expect from them.
I have sanitized the document to remove any names .....
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Photography Agreement
This Agreement between __________ and _________, is for the unlimited use of images taken by ____________ to be used in print form within _____________________, printed promotional materials for ____________________, and on websites controlled by ____________________, or websites with accounts that promote ___________. ___________ may place an __________ logo or the domain name of __________ directly on or under the images.
In return for such use, _________ will compensate ____________ by placing photography credit on the Publisher’s Page of the corresponding issue of _____________ for which the images were provided, in addition to a photography credit placed after the author’s byline at the end of each feature article for which the images were provided. Images used with feature articles on the website will have photography credit placed after the article author’s byline.
______________ will also provide printed advertising space in the amount of a full page for each issue in which images have been contributed, in addition to a visible name or logo image (with hyperlink if applicable) on the corresponding area sub-domain homepage of _____________. Any further compensation agreed upon is outlined here: none at this time.
Image Requirements for Cover/Player Spotlight
* 10 – 25 casually posed images without major flaws (ie: sweat, closed eyes, shadows on face, subject not in focus, unsightly items in background, etc)
* Background of athletic performance setting if possible
* Minimum printable size of 9.25 x 11.75 inches @ 300 dpi for inside full bleed
* Minimum printable size of 8 x 10 inches @ 300 dpi for cover, room for masthead
* Multiple poses with athlete centered in frame for cover, slightly off-center ok for inside with additional headroom, at least one good head shot (we need at least 4 different poses)
* Change of uniform (for inside full page photo)
* Props ok but not necessary for all shots
* If you edit or add unusual effects, please submit unedited file also
* Action or game shots should be supplemental to posed shots
Image Requirements for _____________________, other features:
* 5 – 10 casually posed images as described above, performance setting preferred
* Size as described above for inside
* Multiple poses as described above (we use 4 different images on the website)
* Props ok, need at least one without
* If you edit or add effects, please submit unedited file also
* Action or game shots should be supplemental to posed shots
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So .... what does everyone think about this contract ?
Aaaaaand ... what would your response be to the entity proposing this contract to you ?
I did respond to them .... and my response was called "... the most unprofessional e-mail ..." they'd ever received from someone doing business .... So I guess I was not as "tactful" as I thought I was in declining their offer ....
What say you all ???? |
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Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
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San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 11:17 PM on 09.04.09 |
->> Unlimited use in exchange for a page of advertising space.
Is this Vanity Fair or Esquire? Or perhaps the New York Times Magazine? Unlimited use is worth a lot of money.
What, exactly, was your response?
--Mark |
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Russ Isabella, Photographer
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Salt Lake City | UT | USA | Posted: 11:23 PM on 09.04.09 |
->> Thank you, I pass.
That contract isn't worth more than a 3-4 word response. |
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Cecil Copeland, Photographer
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Marietta | Ga | USA | Posted: 11:40 PM on 09.04.09 |
->> "What, exactly, was your response?"
Well, I've since deleted the e-mail trading that I had with the publisher, so I can't give you a verbatim transcript of what I said ....
I did refer them to this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JI3Df7-KFtw and told them that "credit" and "ads" didn't put gas in my car nor feed me. I told them I knew people that would fall all over themselves to see their name published next to a photo that they took, but I was not one of those guys. I told them that "assignments" and "feature" work (which is what this would be) should be paid for by the publication. I told them that since it appears that the publication's policy is not to pay photographers that I would decline their offer - but if the policy changed where the publication could see value in paying me for "feature" work, then I'd certainly reconsider ..... and that was it .... |
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Jody Gomez, Photographer
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Murrieta | CA | USA | Posted: 11:18 AM on 09.06.09 |
->> Cecil,
Great job.
Jody |
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Jeff Martin, Photographer
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wellington | OH | usa | Posted: 7:48 PM on 09.06.09 |
->> "the most unprofessional e-mail".....
To be a professional, you need to be paid. |
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Matt Kartozian, Photographer
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Scottsdale | AZ | USA | Posted: 8:18 PM on 09.06.09 |
| ->> I would be likely to send a three word response. What A Joke! |
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Jim Colburn, Photo Editor, Photographer
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McAllen | TX | USA | Posted: 11:18 PM on 09.06.09 |
->> "That contract isn't worth more than a 3-4 word response."
It's worth a two word response, one word beginning with the letter "f" and another beginning with the letter "y". |
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Marcell van Aswegen, Photographer
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Pretoria | GP | South Africa | Posted: 3:24 AM on 09.07.09 |
| ->> Jim, whahaha, that was funny |
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Jack Megaw, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Pittsburgh | PA | America | Posted: 2:33 AM on 09.08.09 |
| ->> Got a black Sharpie? (you might need more than one) |
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Phil Hawkins, Photographer
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Fresno | ca | usa | Posted: 3:44 AM on 09.08.09 |
->> Hang on a minute... Let's really look at this. Before refusing this situation summarily, no one has analyzed the offer. The questions should be:
What kind of "publication" is it? Annual directory? Mag?
What is the circulation,
What's the target demo of the circulation,
How many times does it publish, and how long is my flight?
Is it color or black and white?
Do I get to do 100% of the creative on the ad?
What is the placement? (front, middle, back...)
What would you charge for the ad if I were a typical advertiser and...
What would the CPM be on that charge?
I don't see anywhere that any of these questions were asked. If this were "Atlanta" magazine, I might consider it.
I see nothing wrong with doing a little barter, assuming the exchange value is commiserate with the value of the shoot. AND assuming the ad would bring you the kind of penetration and response that would benefit you.
My guess is, probably it's not worth it, but to respond with a link to an extremely sarcastic video as your first response IS unprofessional in my view, and given you apparently didn't even give them the benefit of the doubt my asking the salient questions, with all due respect, you probably did offend them. Apparently, they thought their offer was fair. Now, of course, that's not unusual, even if their offer is patently ridiculous from your viewpoint, but not asking the meaningful questions in order to make an informed decision was jumping the gun in my opinion.
I don't think there is anywhere near enough information posted here for anyone to offer an informed opinion. |
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Paul Cacciapaglia, Photographer, Assistant
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Houston (Friendswood) | TX | USA | Posted: 9:04 AM on 09.08.09 |
->> Just last week I was contacted by a local sports magazine's editor wanting photos from local HS football teams for this months football special. I was told I would receive photo credit and a small ad in the magazine for free. "This is the arrangement we have with photographers who enjoy seeing their photos printed in our magazine".
My response was none. I did not even return the email. |
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Jeff Stanton, Photographer
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Princeton | IN | USA | Posted: 11:15 AM on 09.08.09 |
| ->> The bank doesn't take photo credits for deposit. I've tried like hell over the years and they seem to have a problem with it. Seriously, that's a lot of work for a photo credit and an advertisement and their unlimited use of the images. |
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Mike Janes, Photographer
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Attica | NY | USA | Posted: 11:16 AM on 09.08.09 |
->> Don't think it was the most professional to send that video, though there's been times when it feels like it needs to be done, it's better to wait on a response and take the high road. I've received a lot of bad contracts and always just reply with the same info - I don't trade for credit, here's what I need to know (usage, size, circulation, etc), and maybe we can work something out. Sometimes get no response, or the "sorry we don't pay" response, or they reply with the info and I quote them. Simple process to make sure it's professional and possibly get some business out of it.
After the last contract I received though I had to wait a few days to respond just so it wasn't in anger or annoyance. They would have gotten the Harlan video if I responded soon as I got it! Great contract for them, they got to do anything they wanted with the photos including re-sell both editorially and commercially - total and unlimited license to my images, but not exclusive. I would have had to supply a model release for the players, who are pros with agents so no way that's happening. Of course they wanted "as many photos as you can supply" and all for credit! No ads, no pay, just a byline - in fact their entire selling point of the email and contract was "there's no charge for this!" - lucky me, I don't have to pay for someone else to use my images. Sent them the standard response and got the "sorry we don't pay" one right back. |
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Phil Hawkins, Photographer
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Fresno | ca | usa | Posted: 1:56 PM on 09.08.09 |
->> My other thought on this is that both sides have something to learn here.
The "publication" has an opportunity to "learn" that a photographer who refuses to work free can still be professional and respectful in their dealings, and that we are indeed a profession and not a bunch of idiots.
The photographer gets a contact, albeit non-productive now, it might be in the future. There is absolutely no harm in both sides coming away with good feelings about the negotiation in spite of not being able to come to terms. Who is to say that the policy of not paying photographers at this "publication" doesn't change tomorrow? Who are they gonna call? The guy who insulted them or the guy who kept his cool and stayed respectful and business-like?
The thread here some time ago about burning bridges comes to mind; it is NEVER a good idea in this or any business to burn bridges. Lord knows I've done it and had to learn the hard way. |
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Yamil Sued, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Peoria | AZ | USA | Posted: 3:02 PM on 09.08.09 |
->> I have been asked for free Images.
I have respectfully declined.
I always remember this......
"Be careful about the toes you step on today...... They might be attached to a Butt you may have to kiss tomorrow"
I try not to burn bridges, you never know where the guy you pissed off today may land in the future, and you WILL get Boned in the end.
Y |
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