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How to tell my editor that I no longer wish to volunteer....
Adam Heller, Photographer
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Grafenwoehr | DE | | Posted: 9:38 AM on 08.30.09 |
->> I'm sure someone out there has experience with this.
I've been shooting for an on base newspaper that is published twice a month for about 4 months now. I don't get assignments every week, but they are pretty frequent. I've been volunteering for the paper as a way to build my experience as well as being able to use my editor as a reference (assuming I ever get out of the army). Does anyone out there have any idea on how to tell my editor that I no longer wish to volunteer, but would like to get added to the payroll? It's becoming an issue of my time VS money, which there isn't any of. Not to mention the wear/tear/use on my equipment. Every single assignment I've been on has been published. I'm really at a complete loss of what to do.
I've asked that instead of crediting me by name, credit me by my website in hopes of picking up a few customers. But, she said due to army regulation, she can't, and i can only be credited by name and rank. (thanks for the idea on that Wally, but she didn't go for it)
I'm at a complete loss. Dont suppose anyone knows any paying positions open in Germany do they? haha.
Adam Heller |
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Jim Colburn, Photo Editor, Photographer
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McAllen | TX | USA | Posted: 10:14 AM on 08.30.09 |
->> "It's becoming an issue of my time VS money, which there isn't any of. Not to mention the wear/tear/use on my equipment. Every single assignment I've been on has been published."
It seems like you have your argument right there. Unless the editor is a total jerk she'll either start paying you or (given her budget perhaps) stop using you. |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 10:36 AM on 08.30.09 |
| ->> Adam, I feel for you man but once that gate is opened (working for free) it's next to impossible to get the horse back in. I'm pretty sure she'll do what Jim said, she'll probably just find some other guy to shoot for free. Good luck to ya. |
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Jeff Stanton, Photographer
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Princeton | IN | USA | Posted: 10:41 AM on 08.30.09 |
| ->> Just tell her in a polite and respectful way that you need to be paid for your time. If she cuts you loose, then she does. What are you losing if that happens? |
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Tom Knier, Photographer
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Lancaster | PA | USA | Posted: 11:30 AM on 08.30.09 |
->> You could always direct your editor to this thread...
That's one way. |
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Jeff Mills, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Columbus | OH | USA | Posted: 11:39 AM on 08.30.09 |
->> Adam, simply tell her those very things. You've been consistently doing a good job and they can count on you. You enjoy working for them but can't continue to do so for free.
Theres nothing wrong with saying that. They might not like to hear it beacuse it sounds like they've got a pretty sweet deal going getting quality work for free and don't want to see it end, but if they value your work they should be willing to pay for it.
If they are unwilling, or perhaps unable to do so, then you have to decide if your willing to walk away. I get lots of job offers and request that either are for no compensation, or not enough compensation and turn them down.
Someone else might accept something I decline, and I'm sure some things I've accepted are at rates someone else might of walked away from.
Theres no hard and fast rule, only what works for you and your sitatuion. You and only you know what your time is worth.
Figure out what that amount is and take it from there. |
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Scott Foley, Photographer
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Destin | FL | USA | Posted: 12:37 PM on 08.30.09 |
->> Adam
I hear ya...been in this situation several times on military installations. She (editor) is right, by DoD regulations, they can not pay "freelancers" for the base newspapers...it is frustrating, but likely not a argument you will win.
I ended up walking away and looked for opportunities outside the base. However, if the image(s) would give publicity to my units, then I would go ahead and submit, otherwise, I just did not shoot for them.
Sure this does not help...but I have been through this before. |
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David Harpe, Photographer
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Louisville | KY | USA | Posted: 1:14 PM on 08.30.09 |
->> Adam,
Just let her know in an honest and straightforward way what is going on. If she takes a pass, there's nothing you can really do.
If you can't find something that pays there are PLENTY of places that will let you shoot for free again. |
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Manuello Paganelli, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 1:24 PM on 08.30.09 |
->> SO by DoD regulations they cant pay "freelancers" for the base newspapers.."
Is this editor getting pay at all? If she is doing her job properly and getting a paycheck so should any freelance photographers. That is one of the issues with freelancers... they CAN'T talk when they need too. And talk to the right folks. You had the courage to go to her office that very first day for freelance work yet waited 4 months. Why?
Adam, yOu are a brave soldier and ready to put your life out there for us and our nation and I salute you. But man, be brave and go to your editor for fair compensation. YOU EARNED!! Thirty minutes with her is a lot easier than a two minutes in Iraq.
Go to her office right away and respectfully lay out your terms. She knows the great "free" work she has been getting from you.
Also EDUCATE OTHER SOLDIERS that are doing exactly the same type of shooting. WORKING FOR FREE DOESNT WORK AT ALL.
With photography you gotta stick together, learn and support each other same way you do it in the battlefield. Respect will come soon after.
Basically Chuck said it, once free always free. Four months of freebies is a long time. A pity that you didnt make it clear from day one: "Hey Ms.Editor lets do this for a month and see how my images are use. Then after that lets talk about negotiating some form of payments or compensation. You know I gotta eat and support my family and those car payments. Just like all of us times are tough. I am sure you understand."
I had always said, "An Image Use An Image Pay For."
Hope that at least you are able to keep your © or a mutual licensing rights.
YOu had more than paid your dues!
More 2 Come
www.ManuelloPaganelli.com |
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Michael Fischer, Photographer
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Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 1:36 PM on 08.30.09 |
->> Adam,
While the advice here is spot on, what I hear you really asking for is a "smooth" way to make this a good conversation with a hopefully good end result, although Mr. Liddy IS CORRECT, tough to do once you've opened the door.
Jim is right, tell her what you wrote in here. However, start by sitting down with her and tell her you need a few moments of her time and take a cup of coffee for her when you do.
Tell her you have enjoyed the assignments. Ask her to continue being honest with you. (That sounds better than "be completely honest with me because that implies that sometimes she isn't..) Then ask "Have you used my work because it was free or because it was quality work?" Then add what Jeff, you and others wrote.
IF she responds that FREE drives the train, you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you need to get the heck out of there. *IF* she says she values the work, then the door is open just a crack. What can she do to compensate you? That's the next question. See if she comes up with anything.You can talk about the wear and tear, as well as the time but once you ask "what can you do to compensate me" question shut up and wait for the answer. The first one who speaks loses.
IF she says "nothing" reply "absolutely nothing?" and then shut up again and wait. Using silence is a great tool but the trick is to ask the question and then SHUT UP.
Be prepared to walk. In this era of free, always be prepared for that.
And keep in mind that if this door closes, it gives you the chance to open another one.
Let us know how it goes.
Michael |
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Michael Ip, Photographer
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New York | NY | USA | Posted: 1:39 PM on 08.30.09 |
| ->> If I'm not mistaken (I was in the Army for four years and was a DoD contractor prior to that), what Scott is saying about not being able to pay freelancers sounds about right. It all has to do with how the funds are acquired and paid out I think. If they aren't budgeted for freelancers, they can't pay unless a contract is drawn out. Something like that... |
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Brian Dowling, Photographer
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Philadelphia | PA | USA | Posted: 2:40 PM on 08.30.09 |
| ->> Maybe work out some kind of trade for ad space? I had a small local magazine(10k circ) want to use one of my photos for free and I said no, but asked for a 1/4 page ad and they agreed and even ran it in their parent magazine w/ 60k circulation. I think it was a good trade personally as the photo was just sitting on my flickr not making me any money. |
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Wally Raynes, Photographer
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Kaiserslautern | ge | Germany | Posted: 3:08 PM on 08.30.09 |
->> Hi Adam,
Base newspapers can't pay for freelance work as they run on a limited budget and rely on free contributions to report events.
Will they provide you with free or heavily subsidized advertising space on the same page as your articles?
Its a tough call, not only working for free but paying advert space to promote your business... |
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Clark Brooks, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 3:15 PM on 08.30.09 |
->> There are all kinds of issue here, folks, that prevent Adam from being compensated, all spelled out in DoD regulations. He is not a civilian and things operate a little bit differently in military life. I know this from my three years of experience working for a military contractor as photographer. If he didn't have active or reserved status he might have a small, but not likely shot at getting paid for his contributions as a civilian.
Adam: Because you are enlisted (assuming your from the what you posted thus far) you have two choices; continue to offer the images on a volunteer basis or quit and look for editorial opportunities off base. In your shoes, I would continue to shoot and run it up the chain the command asking for the opportunity to train, when possible, for a Public Affairs career track either as full spec change or on an axillary basis. In either case, you'll be able to actually get paid for doing photography while serving your country. |
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Clark Brooks, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 3:23 PM on 08.30.09 |
->> "Will they provide you with free or heavily subsidized advertising space on the same page as your articles?"
One more thing... Things may have changed in the last 20 years, but from what I remember the paper can't "trade" for advertising space, because technically that would be a form of additional compensation - because it has a dollar value - and not permitted under DoD regs. In other words, I believe it is considered a conflict of interest because you can't be employed by the government and also be a contractor for them at the same time. The situation could occur if approved by his chain of command. If he was a civilian, trading for space, depending on the base policy, might be okay. |
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Adam Heller, Photographer
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Grafenwöhr | DE | | Posted: 11:20 PM on 08.30.09 |
->> Wow, thanks for all the input so far guys.
Wally, you were 100% right on that, she didn't go for it at all. I guess you'd be the best to talk to, do you know of any places down here that are hiring part time for photographers? I spoke to the place that does portraits on base, they said they are more than happy to pass my name around if they can't cover something. But that's all I've found so far.
The paper is owned by a private german company, that from what i understand, pays for the printing by selling ad space. To be honest, i'm not 100% sure if the editors even get paid.
Clark, my job (explosive ordnance disposal) is a critically short MOS, not that I want to, but it's impossible for me to reclass.
Michael, that's one way to try. |
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Clark Brooks, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 10:22 AM on 08.31.09 |
->> Adam,
My bad. I may have misunderstood your situation. From your last post it sounds like the paper operates independently and off base. If true, ignore my advice. I made the incorrect assumption, based on your OP, thinking the paper was operated and published by military personnel. |
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