SportsShooter.com - (not) Embarrassed to be here, pt 2

	Mechanicsburg \| PA \| USA \| Posted: 1:19 AM on 08.28.09
	->> I see that this issue even provoked a twitter post by Ashton Kusher. Think he called SS a bunch of cry babies or something. It's official, I'm completely demoralized now :)

Chuck Liddy, Photographer

	Durham \| NC \| USA \| Posted: 1:22 AM on 08.28.09
	->> You guys can only imagine the emails I've been getting. But, then I just consider the source (s).

Jeff Stanton, Photographer

	Princeton \| IN \| USA \| Posted: 2:34 AM on 08.28.09
	->> Well, at least Ashton is hawking Nikon. :o)

Max Waugh, Photographer

Bothell | WA | USA | Posted: 2:58 AM on 08.28.09

->> There's a well-known and well-respected SS member who has auctioned off an assistant spot at a pro football game for charity the last few years.

It makes me wonder if the folks who want to keep the contest winner off the field feel any differently about that situation, particularly friends of this member who are critical of the Kelby contest.

The circumstances are similar, including the part about playing it up as an "exciting opportunity." However, it's a pro game, the spot is determined by the highest bid with the proceeds go to a charitable cause, and in this case I'm not sure the photographer actually uses an assistant all the time (so a critic might argue there is the dreaded "extra body" on the sidelines).

Just another example showing that it's happened before (as Harvey pointed out in Part 1) and sometimes it happens right in the SS "back yard." But for various reasons Kelby is the lucky one getting the brunt of the heat.

Max

Bryon Houlgrave, Photographer

	Mason City \| Ia \| USA \| Posted: 3:28 AM on 08.28.09
	->> Punked!

Joe Cavaretta, Photographer

Ft Lauderdale | FL | USA | Posted: 6:13 AM on 08.28.09

->> ohhh.. this is making my head hurt.
Am I missing something? if these guys had asked FSU's permission to do this (and they probably would have said yes, because I've checked out Mikes and Scott's sites, and they obviously know what they're doing)
would we even be having this conversation?
Nobody owns their credential. It belongs to the team, NCAA NFL NBA, whoever.
They have the final say. If you are going to use their credential do some sort of public promotional event: contest, charity auction, make a wish kid, whatever, no matter how noble the cause, you better ask them in advance. Pretty simple.
And most teams are pretty cool about this sort of thing. What they don't like are surprises.

Daniel Malmberg, Photographer

Huskvarna | Sweden | Sweden | Posted: 7:28 AM on 08.28.09

->> This whole thing has also created some reactions over here in Sweden.

Somebody read Kelbys version, and started a thread on Sweden's biggest photo community (Fotosidan).
They have missed the real reason to why the winner isn't allowed to shoot the game.

Which i just informed about, as well as the fact that no all SS members have the same opinions regarding this issue.

Reactions are quite angry.

(In Swedish)
http://www.fotosidan.se/forum/showthread.php?threadid=111660

(Thru Google translate)
http://74.125.79.132/translate_c?hl=sv&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://www.fotosidan.se/forum/showthread.php%3Fthreadid%3D111660&prev=hp&rurl=translate.google.se&usg=ALkJrhhrJqFCgAAPVMeo6gYAKRtcjkqe6g

Scott Serio, Photo Editor, Photographer

Colora | MD | USA | Posted: 8:21 AM on 08.28.09

->> So this whole thing has gotten to the point of annoyance. I decided to post on Kelby's blog because of the email I received. Granted, if you read the original post, I support the concept.

THEY DELETED IT! My only guess is that they didn't want that abhorrent email to see the light of day.

Now he has an update about how these SIDs are just giving away press passes to this guy. I run a small photo agency. Do you know the flaming hoops I have to jump through to get credentials for my photographers? Now, we go from a one-for-one sideline experience to just blanket giving them away?

Are we in upside down land?

Jon Wright, Photographer

Wayzata | MN | USA | Posted: 8:51 AM on 08.28.09

->> Remember when little girls wanted to grow up to be Miss America and little boys wanted to grow up to be firemen? That seems to have changed, now they all want to grow up to be photographers. Digital Debbie and Filmless Freddie want to do what we do. The nature of the game changed when everyone could "chimp" and know they got the shot. It became clear that if a person had the financial resources they could get into the game on some level. If I spent my time worrying about all those potential threats to my living I'd make myself crazy. This competition from all the wannabes pushes me to up my game every time I shoot.

I'm proud to be a senior Sports Shooter member. I consider our group to be a great cross section of talented sports photographers. Don't worry, be happy. We have the job that everybody wants!

Jeff Brehm, Photographer, Photo Editor

Charlotte | NC | USA | Posted: 8:52 AM on 08.28.09

->> Don't feel bad, Scott. I've been banned from Kelby's domain on Flickr (oh, the horror). I identified myself as an SS member and stated my opinion, which is that the sidelines at a D1 game are not appropriate for first-time shooter, and was immediately attacked by Scott and his followers. Shortly afterward, I was e-mailed by the "moderator" to say I was banned for trying to start a flame war. That was about the time I started getting e-mails from people who apparently have never been vaccinated for rabies and are huked on fonix.

Gosh, banned from the blog-o-cult. I feel so terrible ... okay, I'm over it.

Michael Fischer, Photographer

Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 8:57 AM on 08.28.09

->> Almost 24 hours later my comments are awaiting moderation over there. Hmmmm - and I was polite.

It's the same as universities, the NFL and even Sportsshooters - ultimately, it's someone else's sandbox. If you don't like the rules, don't play. I had considered joining because because of Joe McNally. It's starting to look like some of their members are really drinking the Kool-Aid. Too much emotion, not enough thinking things thru. No one wins in this situation - no one.

I only hope that this is the worse thing that happens to people over there this week. In the relative scheme of things, this is not the end of the world.

Think I'll go treadmill and start my day...

Michael

Gavin Werbeloff, Student/Intern, Photographer

Atlanta | GA | USA | Posted: 9:28 AM on 08.28.09

->> I can't help but think that this kid is probably more qualified to be shooting D1 football than I was when I was first credentialed. The only difference is that I was shooting for the school newspaper. I remember learning a lot from the multitude of incredibly good shooters roaming the sidelines during this current golden era of USC football. There is knowlegde I gained from being there that I couldn't have gotten in any other way. If we lock the sidelines down, then how do the next generation of sports photographers learn those things that you can only learn 'on the job'. It seems to me, that the uproar over this contest is how things were done rather than the fact that the kid was going to be there at all. We may not have gotten on the sidelines through a contest, but at some point we were all that kid, and it took hard work and a certain amount of benevolence or luck for us to get to there in the first place.

Dan Routh, Photographer

Greensboro | NC | USA | Posted: 9:41 AM on 08.28.09

->> It's funny that this whole thing has become so bizarre. When this contest/promotion came up, I really didn't pay much attention to it. Didn't bother me a whole lot, but I do understand some of the full-time shooter's remarks, because after all, it doesn't take a lot to stir up emotion when you are talking livelihoods in this economy. Then suddenly Scott Kelby incites all his members to start shouting about pro photographers. Behind all of this, Mike Olivella posts that basically it was all his fault because he and Scott had come up with this contest without consulting FSU. If you read Scott's contest promotion, you get the idea that FSU was a sponsor. Obviously not. Scott needs to apologize to everyone for trying to market his business by offering something that he has no right to offer and then blaming someone else when it blows up in his face.

Debra L Rothenberg, Photographer

New York | NY | USA | Posted: 10:00 AM on 08.28.09

->> I agree with Anantachai-the emails I too get from this community, members here -is pathetic. Almost everytime I post something, some insecure jerk will send me an email-as if he is too afraid to post it here. The number of emails I get from people thanking me for what I post-because they have been bullied and are afraid to post, is way more meaningful. Growing up the only girl with 3 strong older brothers has made me strong.
Again-please tell me how this person winning a contest affects YOU. I guess these agencies selling images for $5 doesn't affect you since no one has written over 100 posts about THAT.
Your dream is to be a White House photographer? Have you ever tried to become one? Ever made contact with the correct person? I am living my dream-I have gone after my dream-have been shot down time and time again but I never stopped. I never quit. And it paid off. Were there others along the way who moved up faster than me, perhaps some I felt I was better than? Yes but that's life. The guy I once liked was more into my friend than me. That's life. I'm trying to lose weight and 2 friends are shedding the pounds faster. That's life.
I will continue to try and help out the young photographer at any opportunity I get. I will pay it forward as often, and as much as I can. And if someone passes me by-that's life.
And I like my life and could care less if some member here doesn't agree with what I do

Jeff Brehm, Photographer, Photo Editor

Charlotte | NC | USA | Posted: 10:38 AM on 08.28.09

->> Debra:

It doesn't affect me in any way financially or professionally. But the whole contest issue was brought up as a request by one member for opinions, and for sharing our opinions, many of us have been criticized, if not abused.

If Scott et al had just said, "We disagree" and gone on with the contest, I would not have cared. If the worst had happened and the winner got run over on the sideline, then the proponents of the contest couldn't say they weren't warned. But I admit I was taken aback by the venom that was sprayed at those who attempted to express honest and reasoned dissent.

I personally have no problem with talented new photographers joining our ranks. I've mentored some myself over the years and always enjoyed seeing their passion and excitement. Some of Scott's followers accused me of being afraid of competition. My answer was that there always will be people more talented than me; all I care about is that my employer/client is happy with the images I provide.

I respect your opinion and those of most others in this group. If I disagree, sometimes I say so, and I expect people who disgree with me to do that same. As long as it doesn't get personal, as it has in this case, I am happy to find out what others think and I usually learn from it (when I'm smart enough to listen). But merely flaming those who dissent is the act of cowards and/or the intellectually challenged.

Steven Ickes, Photographer

Mechanicsburg | PA | USA | Posted: 11:09 AM on 08.28.09

->> Debra,

I don't get the impression that those who are speaking out against this are opposed to helping out young, or up and coming photographers. If that were the case then SS members wouldn't work so hard and provide so much information and resources to student photographers here. I think that many are frustrated by the seeming lack of respect for what is essentially their job. Reminds me a lot of that classic movie "Office Space" where the one guy constantly gets his desk moved and resources taken from him until he finally ends up in a basement storage closet. I wonder how many of those folks over on the Kelby blog would appreciate their boss cramming 20 people into their cubicle at work while expecting them to deliver a cost/benefit analysis by 3:00 today.

If you've taken the time to read any of the comments over on that blog you quickly see that these folks just have no understanding that this is a job. They talk about SS being a bunch of elitists, and not wanting to share the glory, and how technology is making our jobs obsolete and we're scared. They think that just because they can chimp and have some mad Photoshop skills that they are suddenly breathing down our necks and they find that amusing. Technology HAS empowered people but not with skill. It's empowered them with arrogance, disrespect, and a sense of entitlement.

Okay, I'm officially tired of this thread and subject. Moving on.

Steven Ickes, Photographer

	Mechanicsburg \| PA \| USA \| Posted: 11:13 AM on 08.28.09
	->> Okay...not quite done... A sign of true professionals are those who can openly discuss differences of opinion without resorting to name-calling. Read the threads concerning this contest here then compare them to those on the Kelby blog.

G.J. McCarthy, Photographer

	Dallas \| TX \| Lower 48 \| Posted: 11:16 AM on 08.28.09
	->> Hey -- is this where we go for the dead horse beating? Just checking ...

Jeff Brehm, Photographer, Photo Editor

	Charlotte \| NC \| USA \| Posted: 11:21 AM on 08.28.09
	->> Here's a stick, G.J. Have at it. :)

David Manning, Photographer

	Athens \| GA \| \| Posted: 11:22 AM on 08.28.09
	->> Just as so we're clear here..... FSU yanked a credential because it was being misappropriated and abused per the terms and conditions and it was being offered as a prize in a contest held by an FSU photographer that the SID knew nothing about? Or did i miss something?

Steven Ickes, Photographer

	Mechanicsburg \| PA \| USA \| Posted: 11:26 AM on 08.28.09
	->> I'd lend you my stick but I think I just broke it :)

Ray Anderson, Photographer

	San Francisco \| CA \| USA \| Posted: 2:43 PM on 08.28.09
	->> Debra Right on the mark keep up the great attitude.

Harvey Dunn, Photographer

Southlake (Dallas) | TX | USA | Posted: 3:33 PM on 08.28.09

->> David:

That's not my understanding of what happened. So, to answer your question, it does appear to me that you missed a bit. For example, I'm not aware of any specific, stated "terms and conditions" that were violated or that there was any credential that was "misappropriated", which I am sure you know means in the vernacular “stolen”.

Based on what has been publicly stated by the people involved (and based my general albeit limited experience with credentials issued by a college to their own photographer), the photographer had two credentials - one for himself and one for an assistant. There is no indication that he did not have the right to select whoever he wanted as an assistant, by whatever legal mechanism he wanted to use. (In other words, he could select his uncle, aunt, cousin, son, daughter, neighbor, etc. He could hire someone to do the work or let them pay for the privilege (e.g., they could work for free). It was all at his discretion.) Things worked well for several years.

Then the photographer made a mistake or two. He decided to change the selection process he'd been using and utilize a new one to select his assistant for a particular game – now, he was open and honest about it, but what he failed to do was to let the university know ahead of time - why? Not because the selection process in and of itself was flawed and not apparently because he did not have discretion to chose his assistant by whatever legal means he wanted, but because he failed to anticipate the firestorm of criticism and warn the university. And, he did indeed come under criticism, not just online, but the critics also took it upon themselves to complain to the university, which apparently ended up being deluged with emails protesting the selection – Notably, at least some of those emails purportedly were from Sportsshooter members. Did all of those emails have their facts straight. Apparently not. Based on what’s been written, at least some of those sending the emails fired them off first without taking the time to get their facts straight; and, certainly few if any actually contacted the photographer. It seems to me that a good journalist would have at least gotten the facts straight, but I digress…

(However, as long as I am digressing, let me note that I've yet to see any evidence of a similar deluge of emails (factually correct or otherwise) by Sportsshooter members or others to Canon or the NFL regarding their contests. And now we hear that a Sportsshooter member auctioned off a credential in a charity auction? Is that right? Was there a similar outcry to what we’ve seen here when that happened? If not, why not? Ok… Anyone what to theorize as to why Canon, the NFL and apparently a Sportsshooter member were treated differently? Is there a double standard? Inquiring minds want to know… From my perspective, I would hope everyone who posted on Sportsshooter about safety concerns or crowded sidelines would feel compelled to send at least one email to Canon and the NFL berating them for their obvious lack of judgment. Ffor those that have the principle to do so, my strong suggestion would be to tone down the rhetoric a bit. So, any bets as to how many emails get sent? More than were sent to FSU? Again, if not, why not?)

Anyway, back to the “story”. So, the university ends up being deluged with emails. What does it do? It goes straight to the photographer. And then tells the photographer what? Not that he can’t do a contest, but that if he’s going to do one, he needs to clear it with them first. Very logical and appropriate on the part of the university – if for no other reason than I am sure that the university would like to benefit from the goodwill that the contest would generate. (Aside: Did the “terms and conditions” of the credential require the photographer to go to the university first regarding the way that he was going to select his assistant or prohibit him from making his selection based on a competitive contest? Not likely.) So, then what happens? Well, the photographer does a bunch of mea culpas, apologizes to the university and agrees to go and sin no more. Just what most reasonable people would have done.

So, are members of Sportsshooter responsible at least in part for the inability of the photographer to use a structured competition to determine who would be his assistant? Yeah, they are. (Any “but/for” analysis would result in that conclusion.) Is that bad? Depends on which side of the issue you are on, I suppose… But consider this. What if the photographer instead had put an ad in a newspaper saying that he was seeking an assistant to carry his camera at a particular college game, and that the criteria for selection (in addition to age and physical ability) would be the photographic skills of the applicant as evidenced by the portfolio of the applicant? No pay, but the assistant gets experience at the side of a professional photographer – and just might get a chance to shoot a little on his or her own. (Sounds sort of like an internship doesn’t it?) Would there have been a similar outcry? I think not. And, isn’t this a better selection process than to make the selection based on who bids the most in a charity auction? Seems to me that it is. A better process, too, than the Canon/NFL process, but oh well.

Soooo… where does that leave us… Well… in my opinion, it leaves all members of Sportsshooter looking like hypocritical jerks… and, yeah, there are a lot of jerks on the other side, but like it or not, that’s how it plays out. Some may care about that, others won’t. Some may make personal attacks; some will say that the other side just doesn’t get it and that the only way to “get it” is to walk in that person’s shoes; and some will kick themselves for venturing to express their opinions. Canon and the NFL will continue with their contests, few if any on here will voice any public opposition, a university or two may decide to eliminate completely the granting of credentials for assistants, the fine print on credentials will get longer, etc… life goes on. And I’m going back to my cave… again…

With best regards.

Charley Starr, Photographer, Photo Editor

Ketchikan | AK | USA | Posted: 4:21 PM on 08.28.09

->> I find it hard to believe so many photographers on this site don’t see the glory in what we do. There are many people that would do almost anything including spending a lot of money to be on the field for a football game and we get paid to be there! It is fun and exciting and very few people get to experience it. So you might not think there is any glory in it but for the 50,000 people in the stands that can’t go on the field there is. Yes, it is a lot of work. But if you don’t like working hard you shouldn’t be a photographer!
Also, it’s not rocket science. Some of these amateurs could do your job. I have a friend who is a very good photographer. He could easily be on the staff of a daily newspaper but his passion lies somewhere else. (and he makes a lot more money!). He does photography on the side because he enjoys it. He would love to win a contest like this. He’d go to the game, have a great time and that would be the end of it. He wouldn’t be looking to take a job away from anyone.
If you want a contest to get mad about, the current photo contest at ESPN magazine has as a grand prize an ESPN the Magazine photo assignment. Now to me it seems that would take a job away from some working photographer and the winner could be looking to get into the business.
To me a contest where some dad gets to go to a college football game is no big deal. In the 30 years I’ve been covering sports from Pop Warner up to the Super Bowl I seen all kinds of assistants, girl friends, boy friends, wives, kids, friends business acquaintances, pretty much anyone. I’ve used friends and family members. I told every one of them what I expected and what the rules were and they were all great. I used my sister for a Super Bowl because I knew I could count on her.
If the sidelines at a D1 game are not appropriate for first-time shooter then I guess all of those photographers for student newspapers should be banned also. Maybe they can start with the JV games and leave the big time to us pros!
Colleges use sideline passes as perks for supporters. It’s a fact of life. It’s there field. It sound like many shooters here feel it belongs to them and they have a god give right to be there. You don’t. I would not be surprised to see a Pro or College team stop giving out credentials to the media. Technology is getting to the point where they would just supply some HD video and let newspapers take stills off of it. The reality is they don’t need newspapers like they once did.
FSU yanking the credential is not the point. Sports photographers started bitching about the contest and another body being on the sideline. What happened between the photographer and the FSU SID is between them. I’ll bet if the SID hadn’t received complaints the response (if any) would have been “next time check with me first”.
Bottom line….if you’re not having fun, don’t see what a great job you have, don’t understand why people think there is ‘glory’ in it or think it’s a lot of work then you need to find another line of work because there are a lot of other people out there that can do your job and they’ll enjoy it.

Jeff Stanton, Photographer

Princeton | IN | USA | Posted: 4:41 PM on 08.28.09

->> One point you're missing is Canon and the NFL have a contract with each other, Canon being the so-called official camera of the NFL.

If Canon is running a contest, the NFL is privy from the get-go as they are involved in the decision making process. Unlike this, the officials at FSU were apparently not involved and learned of it by email, the grapevine, whatever.

If I were running a contest and the winner got to use a D3 and 300 2.8 courtesy of SS.com for a week and Grover was asked, "hey, has the winner been selected yet," I bet he would want to know what was going on and would investigate it by going directly to the source. And in this controversy, FSU did just that.

At this point, i believe if FSU was involved in this promotion and it was advertised as such, there wouldn't have been the controversy we've seen here. There would still be folks unhappy that another body was added to the mix of already countless numbers of other people who don't belong on the sidelines, but at least the contest would have had the blessing of the university.

To a lot of people here on SS and about anywhere else, self-preservation is an issue when you've got a family to take care of and bills to pay. When amateurs or even other pros undercut or worse yet, give away their work because they have a day job that pays well, as an example, it cuts right to the heart of someone's reality and livelihood. People are going to do what they have to do to protect themselves, dreams or not.

Scott Serio, Photo Editor, Photographer

Colora | MD | USA | Posted: 4:49 PM on 08.28.09

->> This is my last post on the subject. I am done. But, I feel since I have been labeled an elitist, I might relay the proper defintion.

e·lit·ism or é·lit·ism (-ltzm, -l-)
n.
1. The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources.

Do I think I deserve favored treatment? Not hardly. I'll just be happy with fair treatment. I have worked hard for everything I have ever earned in life. I think there a many photographers on here who have worked as hard or harder. I do think that there are people out there without journalism backgrounds who would like to become great sports shooters. And, I think that if they show the hunger to do it, they deserve a shot. I said as much and I will help them if I can.

I think I am also allowed to have an opinion on the "winner" of the contest. I don't think it was the best photo of the group. I also feel it wasn't a game shot. The folks on SK say it is, so I guess we have to take their word on it.

That being said, the one thing no one should be subjected to is the treatment some members of this board have been asked to take. Everyone on this board is out there, can be reached and people know who we are. The SK folks, not so much. I have received two emails from anonymous folks with bogus email addresses. Here is the latest literary masterpiece.....

----------------------------------
Sender: me
Phone: --not supplied--
Email: UrABitch@FSU.com
----------------------------------
This user's message:

What piece of [profanity]ing shit you are.

"I can't respect a practice photo"

I'd love to find out how you got where you are now asshole.

[profanity]ing elitist piece of shit.

LOL horse racing LOL, seriously, horse racing, doesn't get any easier than that!
----------------------------------

Really, do I need to write anything else. Here we have the typical Scott Kelby supporter. Aces. Total class acts here.

Harvey Dunn, Photographer

Southlake (Dallas) | TX | USA | Posted: 5:31 PM on 08.28.09

->> Scott:

I'll crawl out of my cave for one more comment today...

I agree with almost everything you said, except for the final comment - I have no idea whether the person who wrote that email is a typical SK supporter or not - my guess is that you really don't have sufficient information to make an informed judgment. But of course you can indeed have an opinion.

And, is everyone on SS a total class act... hmmm... I suspect that if there was a vote among SS members, you find a number, perhaps most, who would have an issue with at least one other SS member.

:-)

And, to be technical, regarding the winning photo, I can't say for sure that it wasn't a game shot, but you're correct that you certainly are entitled to your opinion. Ultimately, as you correctly note, it's in the hands of SK, anyway.

Bottom line, though... anyone who sends anonymous emails of that ilk is a jerk or worse.

With best regards...

Jeff Mills, Photographer, Photo Editor

Columbus | OH | USA | Posted: 5:32 PM on 08.28.09

->> SS is elitist! Every member here had to submit a portfolio and application before being allowed to join this site. Not everyone gets their application accepted either. To be a SS member you have to establish that your able to produce work of a given level and also obey the professional standards for conduct on this site.

SS members are among the elite professionals (and aspiring students/interns) in the sports/pj industry today. We can count some of the best sports photographers in the business among our ranks. That is pretty darn elite if you ask me and why is that a bad thing ? Instead you should feel darn proud that your a SS member. Its a real accomplishment and I know plenty of members who worked quite hard at what they do for a good while before they finally got accepted.

This SS forum is supposed to be a resource for working professionals to discuss issues and pose questions intended for other working professionals who share a common background.

Our concerns and viewpoints are sometimes at odds with those who aren't making a living in this industry but until you've walked a mile in our shoes, how can you judge us on issues someone may have never faced. "Work for free" for example. If your not trying to support yourself or your family, and photography is just a fun pass time when your doing doing your day job, well then your not going to see the harm in the same way we are because its not affecting your putting food on the table.

This site allows the public to read and gain a great deal of knowledge which is great, but this site isn't meant to be a public service for all photographers. Rather its supposed to be a resource for its paying members.

We should not have to change or censor our viewpoints because other outsides groups, who don't share our experiences might disagree.

Never once have I ever posted anything here for my peers and wondered "hmmm, I wonder how the Scott Kelby Flickr group will feel about this".

G.M. Andrews, Photographer

	Mobile \| AL \| USA \| Posted: 5:41 PM on 08.28.09
	->> Why doesn't someone find out if the winner of the ill-fated contest lives near them, and as some suggested in the other thread, offer to take them shooting some non-credential-necessary events nearby? That would show the folks over at the Kelby-cult that all of this hooplah hasn't been to shut a prospective shooter out of the whole sports photography business.

Erin Parker, Photographer

Hattiesburg | MS | | Posted: 7:11 PM on 08.28.09

->> ->> I consider our group to be a great cross section of talented sports photographers. Don't worry, be happy. We have the job that everybody wants!

Jon, AMEN! All the amateur shooters on the sidelines these days make me want to shoot more and better than ever. It gives me another reason to step it up, and I like the challenge and rise to it every chance I get. I'm just thankful to have a job at my little newspaper and that I started shooting sports with some fantastic shooters around me.

I am all about helping other photographers because so many helped me out along my way. I just don't know if giving away an assistant's credential and not telling the school about it is a good idea. So if the winner lives near me, he is WELCOME to come along on a high school game. If nothing else, he could get some more experience shooting sports before stepping it up to a D1 event. Nothing wrong with that.

The thing that is really bothering me now is all the e-mails I've seen posted here. Why in the world send someone such a degrading e-mail? What does it accomplish, other than proving you're a jerk?

Nick Morris, Photographer

	San Marcos \| CA \| United States \| Posted: 7:20 PM on 08.28.09
	->> Good news... I saved money using Geico!

Luke Sharrett, Student/Intern

Forest | VA | United States | Posted: 8:34 PM on 08.28.09

->> I just received a nice little nasty email from someone with a fake email address. Their IP address is 69.181.203.84. I did a little research and traced them to 261 Topaz St. Redwood City, CA. So William Johnstone (or Julie Dachauer), if you're reading this, I know who you are, where you live, and how many beds/baths your house has. I also know that you enjoy barbershop quartet music. Next time you wish to insult me, please do so to my face. Thanks!

Andrew Miller, Photographer

	Somerville \| NJ \| USA \| Posted: 8:58 PM on 08.28.09
	->> Threads like this and others in the past few weeks here on SS have helped me understand why people rubberneck. The 2nd and 3rd threads are always like the car accident you can't help but slow down and look at because of how awful it appears.

Eric Barkhurst, Photographer

	newport beach \| ca \| usa \| Posted: 9:00 PM on 08.28.09
	->> Wow, this is too funny. I think too many people have their panties in bunches. Lighten up and let the guy live the dream. Most of you that started this should stop while you are ahead. I find it gets worse as you try to explain yourself more....I say this with all my love. Lets all have a beer together!

Ric Tapia, Photographer, Photo Editor

	Los Angeles \| CA \| USA \| Posted: 9:36 PM on 08.28.09
	->> @Luke, How did you find out there Home address from the IP address? Ric

Luke Sharrett, Student/Intern

Forest | VA | United States | Posted: 9:46 PM on 08.28.09

->> Ric, its a little scary what you can find on the internet just with Google. I found gps coordinates for the IP address, plugged the gps coordinates into google maps, found the street address, plugged the street address into the white pages, which gave me names and phone numbers. That info led to homeowner information, and businesses registered to that address. Goes to show there's no such thing as anonymity on the internet.

G.J. McCarthy, Photographer

Dallas | TX | Lower 48 | Posted: 10:06 PM on 08.28.09

->> "I found gps coordinates for the IP address, plugged the gps coordinates into google maps, found the street address, plugged the street address into the white pages, which gave me names and phone numbers. That info led to homeowner information, and businesses registered to that address. Goes to show there's no such thing as anonymity on the internet."

OK, be honest now ... how many times have you watched "Single White Female"??

David A. Cantor, Photographer, Photo Editor

	Toledo \| OH \| USA \| Posted: 10:10 PM on 08.28.09
	->> I'm just happy to be here.....hope I can help the ball club."

Scott Serio, Photo Editor, Photographer

	Colora \| MD \| USA \| Posted: 10:31 PM on 08.28.09
	->> LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. David, if you only knew how often I say that. Thank you. Facing a 5-hour drive at 3am, I needed that.

Matthew Bush, Photographer

Hattiesburg | MS | USA | Posted: 12:47 AM on 08.29.09

->> Forget amateurs on the sidelines can we get the 45 dance team girls moved back out of the way ? My friend Heather a video shooter for local tv got railed tonight about 4 feet away from me because she had no where to go after the girls all panicked and huddled together and pinning her in as a receiver came out of bounds diving for a pass.... Heather caught the receiver and the safety with her camera and left hand...... A totaled P2 rig and a possible broken hand. A cool video shot though all you see is the qb pass the ball the receiver dive for it and then the picture just dies and you here the impact. She was a trooper and stuck around to do her live shoot at 10 before going to the ER.

Luke Sharrett, Student/Intern

Forest | VA | United States | Posted: 1:48 AM on 08.29.09

->> Wow, looking back i certainly got caught up in the heat of the moment. I realize my words addressing whoever emailed me could be perceived as hostile or threatening and would like to clarify that I meant no harm to either individuals named. I only meant to show no one is anonymous online. I also want to Apologize to William Johnstone and Julie Dachauer for mentioning them in this. Some hurtful things were said to me, and I don't know for sure who said them, so I shouldn't have implicated them before I knew for sure and I am retracting what I stated. I should have dealt with this in private, but without a legitimate email address to respond to, I could not. My apologies.

Michael Fischer, Photographer

	Spencer \| Ia \| USA \| Posted: 8:41 AM on 08.29.09
	->> Hopefully we've all remembered that we are lucky to do what we do. (Kelby pulled my comment that I mentioned earlier, which is fine, it's their sandbox.) There's an old saying that we can end this thread with that I think is appropriate. It has to do with how to handle life: 1) Don't sweat the small stuff 2) It's all small stuff. I hope the people over at Kelby remember the same rule... :D

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