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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Going Rate
Daniel Kraus, Photographer
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Mentor | OH | USA | Posted: 5:51 PM on 08.24.09 |
| ->> OK, say you are at an event, say a little league baseball game that you have total control of the images, and a parent says, "hey, email me that shot and I'll pay you". What is the going reasonable rate for an 8 x 10 these days? What about if you burn a disc with say 5 shots at 10 inches by 350 res. ? |
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Delane B. Rouse, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Washington | DC | US | Posted: 6:06 PM on 08.24.09 |
| ->> $20-$25 for the print/file |
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Louis Lopez, Photographer
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Fontana | CA | USA | Posted: 2:07 AM on 08.25.09 |
| ->> And I would get the payment first... |
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Robert Beck, Photographer
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Carlsbad | CA | USA | Posted: 2:19 AM on 08.25.09 |
| ->> That's a mighty big difference...print or file. You give someone a file and they can make as many prints as they want. I would charge more for a file. A print is a one timer. You'd better check twice if you think you have "total control" over images you make at a youth sports game. |
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Jeff Mills, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Columbus | OH | USA | Posted: 2:25 AM on 08.25.09 |
->> A print should be a "one timer" but all too often these days its a "buy one and then make copies and enlargements".
I've actually shoot for some schools where parents put the word out that it was cheaper to just buy a bunch of 4x6" prints and then go to a self serve kiosk that lets customers scan and make their own 8x10's and larger. Why pay me $20 for an 8x10 when they can buy a 4x6" for $5 and blow it up themselves for a mere $2 more ?
It was funny because for the longest time I couldn't figure out why parents didn't want to buy more than 4x6" ever.
Wasn't so funny to see shots I took, and that I know I only sold as a 4x6" made into senior night posters. |
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Jim Owens, Photographer
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Cincinnati | OH | usa | Posted: 5:14 AM on 08.25.09 |
->> This thread is more illuminating than it appears on the surface. It's the whole conflagration of "fair" price for services, photographers time and skill, and quality of work as judged by the consumer.
One solution might be to not make 4X6's available.
I'm thnking seriously of implementing that change this year since my 4X6 print sales are small compared to other sizes.
If the consumer wants to take a 5X7 to a Wal-Mart or whatever and enlarge it than they can. After all, we really have no control over whether or not a customer will scan a print for more copies. We might as well try and get what we can before they head to the grocery store. |
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Darren White, Photographer
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Brisbane | QLD | Australia | Posted: 5:53 AM on 08.25.09 |
| ->> I just changed the prices of 6x4's and 5x7s to my 8x10 prices this year. |
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Eugenio Cebollero, Photographer
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Kernersville | NC | US | Posted: 7:39 AM on 08.25.09 |
| ->> I don't recall who was doing this, but I remember some time ago a parent attempting to scan an Olan Mills portrait only to be disappointed with what was rendered in the scan. They used some anti-scanning technology (whether paper or print dyes) to where a primary color - say blue - was the only thing that is picked up with an optical scanner. Has anyone heard of this before or am I just making this up? |
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Delane B. Rouse, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Washington | DC | US | Posted: 8:56 AM on 08.25.09 |
->> Robert makes a valid point but in real life parents don't decide between purchasing (10) 4x6's at $6 each, (10) 8x10's at $22.50 ea. or (10) digital files at $10 ea.
They typically have a dollar figure in mind that they will spend and they will purchase whatever fits into that budget. Sure, we're more profitable when we sell less prints at higher profit margins, but that's not always possible.
When I was at a Luau in Hawaii a few weeks ago they shot pics of couples/families and offered ONE package for $40...take it or leave it. We took it. All I really wanted was about $20 worth of pictures...maybe (2) 5x7's or the digital file...but they were polite and firm in their offering and it worked to their advantage. They got a nice $40 average sale...
I think I'll adopt a similar model this fall...
Delane |
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Craig Mitchelldyer, Photographer, Assistant
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Portland & Orange County | OR and CA | USA | Posted: 10:05 AM on 08.25.09 |
| ->> I make anything 8x10 or smaller the same price, $30. Digital file is $50. It is not the size of the paper they are paying for, it is the image that is unique that they are paying for. It is the same amount of work to print a 4x6 as an 8x10 so why should they be priced different? Also, this model allows people to get what they really want and not worry about cost because there is no difference in the cost of a 4x6 or an 8x10 or a 5x7. And like Robert Beck said, with the file they can make unlimited prints, so it is priced higher. |
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Jeff Stanton, Photographer
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Princeton | IN | USA | Posted: 11:03 AM on 08.25.09 |
| ->> Don't offer electronic files unless you are prepared to charge more. And I would watermark the work so it can't be scanned without your copyright coming up in the finished print. |
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Manuello Paganelli, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 11:06 AM on 08.25.09 |
->> Folks when you sell these images or files are you also stamping a clause behind the image or handling a contract when giving out a file?
If the portrait is a nice one some of these people may feel that they can use it for other usage beyond "personal files" e.g. give to mom or dad, fridge, desk etc.
Over 15 years ago I did a photo shoot of a well known writer. Somehow the magazine gave her a complementary photo without my consent. Now here is a writer that should had known about © and licensing instead of your regular Joe.
A year later one of my agent phone me asking me if I had given any permission to use that image. Turned out that the photo was been used in different articles. Finally when we got hold of the source, the magazine then the subject, she acted clueless and was very apologetic. Her "sincerity" didnt go far and when we settled she learned a very expensive lesson.
So all of you who deal with selling prints make sure you get all of that clear specially with people that don't understand our biz. YOu never know when that person is running for office tomorrow, or he/she is the next top realty star from your hometown. The first thing they will do is pass those images to all the papers, People mag and Inquirer.
Make sure that is ONLY for personal usage ONLY and any other rights is reserved until they, or a 3rd party, phones you then a new licensing fees & contract MUST be negotiated. IN the event that they still use that image for something else at least you had warned them and you will be protected in case it goes to court. But have it somewhere in writing.
More 2 Come
www.ManuelloPaganelli.com |
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Jeff Mills, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Columbus | OH | USA | Posted: 12:43 PM on 08.25.09 |
->> Jeff, the problem with a watermark on a print though is that then your legitimate and honest customers who do value your work have to have their product compromised in an effort to thwart those dishonest ones. Really anyone who is going to copy a print probably doesn't care about a watermark either. If there are "customers" who can take a 600pixel web gallery image and blow it up to a 20x30 print and are still happy, a watermark probably wont bother them. Nor can you really count on the guy at the Walmart photo counter to enforce your copyright.
Perhaps its more of a pet peeve of mine but I absolutely HATE seeing prints with a photographers name or studio on the front of them. It just looks so ugly and tacky. Its like you have a nice 16x20 senior portrait, get it nicely framed in a stylish frame and yet you've got "Joe Photographers" name embossed in gold foil at a diagonal across the bottom corner. Just can't stand that!
You'd never give a commercial or corporate client work that demands your name be in the image, so I don't think its right to do that to your personal market clients.
But that is just my $.02 and I'm also the type who removes the dealer logo from the back of my automobiles as well lol.
If it says "Ford" and "Mustang" that is fine and good, but unless my name is "Fred Ricart" I sure as heck don't need "Fred Ricart" on my back bumper in 2" chrome letters. |
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Matthew Sauk, Photographer
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Sandy | UT | United States | Posted: 1:30 PM on 08.25.09 |
->> To be honest I don't think it is fair for anyone outside of your area to tell you a going rate for an image. A rate that they say it should go for, might only work for them in their area and not yours.
I know in my area I could not charge some of the prices I see on here because families in my area just don't have that kind of spendable income. (large families)
So I base mine on what sells. I tried to raise my prices this past year by a few dollars and my sales went down pretty heavy.
That was a sign to me that my market was not ready to pay more so I lowered them to my previous years prices. |
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Eric Canha, Photographer
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Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 6:23 PM on 08.25.09 |
->> Jeff I still have the hot foil machine from my wedding studio. Once upon a time getting your first studio die made was a big deal. My album vendor still offers hot stamping and you can still have a custom die made and held so that all your albums and folios have a studio stamp. Just another 'legacy' appendage from the 'old' days.
I don't know that stamping 4x6's are a productive uses of my time, or that the expense is justified as a means of protecting an image. All of my prints are back printed with my (c) as a standard lab feature and printed on Kodak Endura 'Professional Print' or something to that effect.
A few weeks ago a customer called me because CVS wouldn't scan and make 20x30 from one of our prints like the did LAST YEAR..... so she wanted to order one from us this year. Shockingly I didn't have a 19.95 20x30 poster option like CVS so she passed.... I'm just waiting to see an order for a 4x6 with her name on it.
As far as protecting images you can only go so far. It's like locking the front door. Or a home alarm. It's only meant to keep honest people honest.
Back to my vacation now...... If I get caught posting anything this week I'm in deep do do. |
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