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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Netbooks
Michael Myers, Photographer
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Miami Beach | FL | USA | Posted: 9:44 AM on 08.24.09 |
->> There are many new small computers available nowadays, much smaller and lighter than a conventional laptop. They seem to be going under the name of "netbook". They seem to sell for between $250 and $450. Most of them seem to accept a GSM "sim" card, for direct access to wireless.
I'd like to get one of these to use instead of my laptop for traveling, but I'm wondering if it will do what I need. Are these new small machines capable of editing photos, or doing all the other things that photographers might do on a laptop?
I assume email and basic Microsoft office programs will be no problem, but I'm wondering if these netbooks are powerful enough for us.
Any advice as to which ones are "better" for use by a photographer? |
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George Bridges, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Washington | DC | USA | Posted: 10:34 AM on 08.24.09 |
->> Michael,
There have been a few threads here about them, you may want to search those.
Netbooks are great for what they are, very portable machines. They will do photo work but have many limitations. The processors are slow so don't expect to handle large files, especially RAW, with any sort of quickness.
The screens on many are very small and it can be frustrating to work on images -- and also the resolution on most is too low to really handle the windows on some programs. I know on the 10-inch model I have, the box for RAW image handling does not fit on the screen and some of the preference boxes for Photo Mechanic do not fit the screen and you can't scroll around to see all of the options.
That said I have used mine for doing some basic games when I know I only have to send a few images and am not doing heavy processing. It is nice to go to a hockey game and have one bag over the shoulder with a body, lens and computer and I'm ready to go.
However for any heavy processing, especially RAW, I always carry the bigger MacBook Pro. |
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Curtis Clegg, Photographer
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Sycamore | IL | USA | Posted: 10:50 AM on 08.24.09 |
| ->> I'm intrigued by the netbooks that the cell phone carriers are offering now; on Verizon, for instance, you can get an HP1151NR for $199 with a 2-year contract. That's the same price as some of the Blackberries and smart phones. |
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Jeff Mills, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Columbus | OH | USA | Posted: 11:02 AM on 08.24.09 |
->> Michael,
As George said, there are a couple of really good threads (one of which I started lol) so I won't go into depth but basically, yes, these little netbooks can do basic image processing quite well as long as your sticking with JPEG files and just some levels, cropping etc. Trying to run something like Capture One on them would be an exercise in frustration, at least if your trying to transmit on deadline.
Battery life on them, or at least mine, is really excellent though which is great. The gauge on mine usually says its got about 7 hours run time and keeping in "sleep" mode its gone for over a week sitting on my desk. This is great because you don't need to a bring a bulky ac adapter and cord to a game, worry about finding outlets or sharing an already full power strip.
Also as George said, the screen resolution can be a bit of an issue with some dialogue boxes. These typically run at 1024x600 pixels native, and while the screens are very good, LED backlit technology in fact, the PM ingest popup for example doesn't allow you to see the "okay" tab on the bottom.
Luckily there is a very easy solution, and that is that they can change the display to 1024x768 on the fly, so you have more real estate but with the screen becoming squashed a bit so there is some visible distortion.
I've got some hotkeys on my Asus model though that let me flip back and forth with a single key press though so when I'm ingesting I quickly switch resolutions to deal with the large dialogue box and then back to normal resolution for editing and its not a problem. As such, I'd suggest you get a model that had some function keys to allow that.
As a whole though they are well worth the money. Weight under 3lbs and can do most basic needs, so you can always have a pc with you, even when you don't feel like carrying a larger and heavier full size laptop. |
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Michael Myers, Photographer
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Miami Beach | FL | USA | Posted: 11:06 AM on 08.24.09 |
->> Thanks; I did do a search for "netbook", and while I found some discussions about specific ones, I never found a discussion about which ones might be better.
I figure everything is a compromise, and while the small screen might be limiting, the small size and weight are very important to me, especially the weight.
I'm wondering if you spend a bit more, are there any that keep the small size and weight, but add additional capability? |
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Jeff Mills, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Columbus | OH | USA | Posted: 11:40 AM on 08.24.09 |
->> Michael, they are all pretty similar these days, probably 90% of more models using the Intel Atom N70 or N80 processor. The N80 being slightly better as its 1.66ghz instead of 1.60ghz but in reality does .06ghz increase make a big difference ? I doubt it.
Things you might want to look for though are user upgradeable memory. Some Eee Pc models for example have a little cover and RAM chip and you can upgrade from 1 to 2 gigs easily. Others might have it under the mainboard and require total disassembly voiding the warranty or sending it in for an expensive upgrade.
As for as extra capability, the only differences I've seen are things like bluetooth (which is nice to have). They are all pretty much cut from the same cloth though.
Asus Eee PC line is the way I'd go though. They seem to come out the tops on the benchmarks I've read, are nicely priced and have nice keyboard layouts, great battery life and good looks.
I've got the 1008HA model and its under 3lbs and less than 1" thick at its thickest part. However it doesn't allow a RAM upgrade is the only downside. The 1005 model which is a little bulkier and less streamlined does. |
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Max Simbron, Photographer, Assistant
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Phoenix | AZ | USA | Posted: 11:47 AM on 08.24.09 |
->> I have a Dell Mini 9 that I upgraded (from 1GB to 2GB, and from 8GB to 64GB high speed SSD) and then loaded OS X onto.
It's biggest pro is also it's biggest con. Examples:
It's tiny, so that's great, but that also means the keyboard is not comfortable for much typing. Workaround: Have captions predone and ready to attach to files on ingest, and then edit only what's needed to make it relative to the image.
It can run Photoshop, Photo Mechanic, etc. But it's very slow. Workaround: Actions. Anything you do that's fairly repeatable to an image, try to make an action. It won't make the computer faster, just more bearable to work with.
The screen is excellent if calibrated. But it's also too small a resolution for a few apps. Workaround; there's files you can run to make the screen force a new resolution by scaling the res down to the screen size. It looks horrible but works enough to get you past certain windows that are too large for the Mini.
Battery life is amazing: hours and hours. However that's because the chipset is super slow.
That all being said, once I tuned up my Mini properly and set up everything at home beforehand, the Mini worked great for sending out a few images. If you had to send a lot, I would be worried that it would be too frustrating.
As for reccomendations: they're all about the same. SSD based netbooks have better battery life. Most all are about 7-10 inches. anything above 9 gets too pricey for what it is. why pay 500 bucks for a slow netbook when you can get a real laptop.
I chose the Dell Mini because it goes on special often, and is the only laptop that is 100% compatible with OS X. It's not legit to put OS X on it, but each piece of hardware is accepted by OS X.
Check out Gizmodo for more info if you wish to check out some reviews. |
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Luke Trottier, Photographer
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Jeff Mills, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Columbus | OH | USA | Posted: 12:27 PM on 08.24.09 |
->> Luke, while the larger screen on that Acer would certainly be nice, its worth mentioning that its for some reason using the older Z series processor. Actually a generation before the N270 Atom series even.
Its 1.33ghz and 533mhz FSB instead of the newer N series processors like most netbooks are using, N280 for example is now running at 1.66ghz and a 667mhz FSB.
I don't know quite what type of real world differences that would relate to, but its a fair jump in processor speed and especially FSB speed.
Also worth noting the Acer doesn't have bluetooth which is really handy for using an external mouse. |
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Max Simbron, Photographer, Assistant
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Phoenix | AZ | USA | Posted: 12:44 PM on 08.24.09 |
->> Luke,
That does seem interesting. My big issue with any of the Atom netbooks: XP. It runs horribly slow. I tried installing it on my netbook (with all the upgrades), and it was slow.
OS X is pretty snappy on the netbook. Plus some of the usual niceties of OS X make it easier to work with (built in preview, PDF, etc)
Can the Aspire manage OS X? |
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Luke Trottier, Photographer
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Bath | ME | US | Posted: 12:57 PM on 08.24.09 |
->> Jeff, The z520 is a tad slower however it supports Poulsbo chipset (native support for H.264, MPEG-4 and VC-1 decoding and is GMA500 based and supports DirectX 10 whereas GMA950 doesn't.)
However your right, for this post the N270 or N280 would be a better option. Fortunately Wally World doesn't dissapoint.. http://www.walmart.com/catalog/allReviews.do?product_id=11090757
Max, I don't know about this Acer however my older netbook works fine with one caveat. To get the wireless working you have to replace the wifi card. ($15 off ebay) |
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Nathan Papes, Student/Intern
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Springfield | MO | United States | Posted: 1:00 PM on 08.24.09 |
->> Here a mac compatibility chart fr netbooks
http://gadgets.boingboing.net/2008/12/17/osx-netbook-compatib.html
The aspire's wifi does not work with osx so that rules it out right there.
Max, I've done exactly what you have done to your mini 9. I'm going to add a WWAN card soon so I can use it on wireless networks |
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George Bridges, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Washington | DC | USA | Posted: 3:29 PM on 08.24.09 |
->> BTW, for anyone using PhotoMechanic on netbooks, Kirk from CameraBits informs me that windows in version 4.6.1 have been either modified to fit netbooks or are user resizable.
Don't have my netbook on me this minute but as soon as I get time I'll be running the upgrade so if you have a netbook and use PM you may want to give it a shot as well. |
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Jeff Mills, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Columbus | OH | USA | Posted: 3:34 PM on 08.24.09 |
->> That is just another example of why Photo Mechanic is such a great piece of software. They clearly have their finger on the pulse of how working photographers are using their software, and are introducing solutions as quickly as new technology like netbooks are becoming popular alternatives to the laptop for many working photographers.
Wish more companies could take that lead. |
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Colin Heyburn, Photographer
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ARMAGH | NI | United Kingdom | Posted: 3:51 PM on 08.24.09 |
| ->> I use an Acer Timeline 3810t. Main reason is the battery life. I can now run a game or two without having to worry. It has 4GB DDR3 RAM. Powerful enough to run Microsoft Office as well as Lightroom pitchside. Also no problems with mobile broadband. It is light and very very portable. Well pleased with it and those few less pounds make such a difference. |
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Chuck Steenburgh, Photographer
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Lexington | VA | USA | Posted: 3:55 PM on 08.24.09 |
->> I am looking real hard at the new HP dv2 series, which is based on the Intel Neo processor. It's also a 1.6GHz low-voltage chip, but it's more powerful than the Intel Atom AND it comes in a dual-core flavor as well which is close in computing power to lower-end, full-size laptops. It has a 12" screen.
There have been new configurations and lower prices almost weekly on the HP site, so I'm waiting to see how this line matures.
BTW, I've found a very handy site for comparing various processors...benchmark data from thousands of systems, provides a reasonable gauge of rough CPU power:
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_list.php
For the record, I presently am using a Lenovo s10e, a 10" N270-based system running XP and Light Room 2. It works although Light Room's dialogs are NOT netbook-friendly (they're a pain but not insurmountable). |
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Max Simbron, Photographer, Assistant
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Phoenix | AZ | USA | Posted: 10:21 PM on 08.24.09 |
->> Nathan,
If you're on Sprint or Verizon, consider getting a Mifi. It's a battery operated 3G router. I was going to go WWAN, but then I can't use it on my normal laptop. A USB dongle would work, but then I have to always have a free USB port for this (the Dell has 3, but 1 holds a card reader, the other a wireless mouse dongle, so it fills up fast)
The mifi's allow 5 users, have user replaceable batteries, and any computer with wifi can use it. This would be great in case internet at home goes down, I need to work with my laptop, or just the netbook.
Wow, did not know that about the latest PM. Will look into the upgrade now.
Max |
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Debra L Rothenberg, Photographer
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New York | NY | USA | Posted: 10:38 PM on 08.24.09 |
->> Michael,
I have an Asus eee PC 901HA with 2 gigs of Ram, 160 gig Hardrive, photoshop elements7 and photo mechanic. I used it once and it was great. After that, a PC just confused me too much and I need something I don't need to think about (like my Mac!)
It was bought at B&H several months ago and I bought the 3 year extended warranty.
I am selling it since like I said, a PC is too confusing for me. Contact me if you are interested.
Debbie |
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Andrew Villa, Student/Intern, Assistant
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San Jose | CA | United States | Posted: 12:51 AM on 08.25.09 |
| ->> I rock the Dell mini 9 with OS X 10.5.7 on it. I just finished getting photoshop and the microsoft office suite slimmed down enough to fit on my 16gb SSD. It has 1 gig of ram that I may upgrade to 2 down the road, but for the time being it works fine. I didn't get bluetooth on mine and I use the built it wireless with OS X to install things via sharing. |
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Francis Specker, Photographer
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Riverside | CA | USA | Posted: 5:10 AM on 08.25.09 |
->> I have a Asus eee PC 1000HE with 2gb ram and Windows 7 installed. The biggest problem I found is not the slowness of the processor to run programs like Photoshop and Photo Mechanic, but the the loss of productivity in using a small screen, keyboard with smaller keys and a trackpad with stiff buttons.
Some positives: 6+ battery life, smaller and lighter than most laptops and cheap. Makes a great back-up.
It is a great value when you consider it has 3 USB ports, SD card reader, built-in wifi and video out for presentations.
I wrote a long blog post on my experiences.
http://francisspecker.com/blog/2009/6/7/netbooks-for-photographers.html |
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George Bridges, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Washington | DC | USA | Posted: 9:47 AM on 08.25.09 |
| ->> BTW, the version of PM with scaleable windows is only for Windows OS versions since the Mac version works fine on all Apple produced machines. So if you have a hackintosh it won't make a difference for you. |
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Michael Myers, Photographer
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Miami Beach | FL | USA | Posted: 11:55 PM on 08.30.09 |
| ->> Is it true that the reason all these netbooks come with 1-gig of RAM is because Microsoft won't allow the manufacturers to sell netbooks with Windows XP with more than that? I guess that explains why all the advertisements fail to mention more memory as an accessory, although if you call and ask it's available. |
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George Bridges, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Washington | DC | USA | Posted: 12:35 PM on 08.31.09 |
->> Michael,
I remember a while back reading that Microsoft's deal with computer makers was they could continue to sell XP pre-installed as long as the machine did not contain more than 1GB or RAM. That may still be the case.
Just check beforehand to see if the computer is user upgradeable in RAM. If so then it's cheap and usually easy to do it yourself. Some have the RAM soldered directly to the board so you can't replace.
The one I got came with 2GB or RAM but also had an XP downgrade disk included so it was easy to roll back from Vista. |
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Michael Myers, Photographer
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Miami Beach | FL | USA | Posted: 12:56 PM on 08.31.09 |
->> Which one did you buy? If it came with Vista and the downgrade disk, it sounds like a better starting point.
Did you ever try it with Vista? A netbook that can run Vista reasonably fast seems like a good choice.
The prices for netbooks is dropping so fast it's difficult to buy a used on, as the previous owner would have paid a lot more money than the new ones are going for. I'm tempted to forget the whole idea, and just keep using my Toshiba laptop for a while longer, but a netbook seems much better for traveling. |
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George Bridges, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Washington | DC | USA | Posted: 1:09 PM on 08.31.09 |
->> I have an Asus (can't remember the model off hand) but it was a higher-level than most netbooks so the cost was a fair amount higher. At that time it was one of the few with a nearly-full-size keyboard and has "n" wireless and gigabit ethernet. I paid extra for those options just because of where it fits in with my workflow at specific events during the year (when I'm setting up my own network and would like that extra touch of transfer speed)
Now there are more options out there for bigger screens and better keyboards for the lower price. The market changes fast in that realm of computers.
I never did try it much with Vista. I'm mainly a Mac person and am familiar with XP when I need to use Windows so I quickly scaled it back to what I know. |
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