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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Sad News: 'Topps Gets Exclusive Deal With Baseball...'
Brad Mangin, Photographer
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Pleasanton | CA | USA | Posted: 3:25 PM on 08.06.09 |
->> This is very sad news that broke late yesterday.
'The Topps Company will become the exclusive trading card maker of Major League Baseball next year in a multiyear deal that appears to seriously hurt Upper Deck, its primary competitor in the once-vibrant business.'
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/06/sports/baseball/06cards.html
What this means is the baseball card business that had as many as seven different companies employing photographers in the hey day of the early 1990's has shrunk to one. Very sad. This will affect many good people. |
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Derick Hingle, Photographer
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Hammond | LA | USA | Posted: 3:32 PM on 08.06.09 |
| ->> Very sorry to hear that, I know some of the photographers this will likely hurt. Why does MLB want to limit their market to one company, I think they make a lot more money and get a lot more publicity and kids interested in the game with seven trading card companies. Very sad situation. |
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Lane Hickenbottom, Photographer
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Omaha | NE | usa | Posted: 3:34 PM on 08.06.09 |
->> "This will affect many good people."
Young and old. Seems like a bummer deal for kids who like to collect. |
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Matthew Sauk, Photographer
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Sandy | UT | United States | Posted: 4:19 PM on 08.06.09 |
| ->> all these terrible exclusive deals! what happened to competition? Why can't anyone do anything to stop these type of deals... |
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Chuck Steenburgh, Photographer
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Lexington | VA | USA | Posted: 7:06 PM on 08.06.09 |
->> The competition is in the bidding process for exclusivity. That's the nature of the beast.
MLB is simply doing what they see is in their economic best interest, with a property they own. Too bad for the photographers that lose out, but someone could make the same argument about photographers who choose an exclusive distributor for their stock imagery.
"These type of deals" are the American way. MLB should not be worrying about how many employees of other organizations may or may not lose their jobs; they should worry about maximizing their own revenue.
The real problem here is not MLB or Topps, it's the fact that in the 90s baseball card collecting was a huge fad that many people (foolishly) considered a form of investment. Any photographer who counted on that trend continuing...well, I have a Beanie-Baby collection I will be glad to sell you for just a couple grand. |
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Colter Ray, Student/Intern, Photographer
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San Marcos | TX | United States | Posted: 7:12 PM on 08.06.09 |
| ->> I wish we could resurrect Teddy Roosevelt so he could break up this BS monopoly. |
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William Maner, Photographer
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Biloxi | MS | USA | Posted: 7:15 PM on 08.06.09 |
->> Beanie Baby collection??
Uhhh Chuck S...
You wouldn't happen to have an extra Nana the Monkey on hand?? |
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Chuck Steenburgh, Photographer
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Lexington | VA | USA | Posted: 7:17 PM on 08.06.09 |
| ->> Monopoly? Good grief. What are they teaching in college history/economics classes these days? |
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Michael McNamara, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Phoenix | AZ | USA | Posted: 8:13 PM on 08.06.09 |
->> "Monopoly? Good grief. What are they teaching in college history/economics classes these days?"
That MLB is exempt from monopoly laws. |
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Robert Hanashiro, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | | Posted: 8:34 PM on 08.06.09 |
->> Shocking!
$$$ over people?
Shocking! |
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Michael Ip, Student/Intern, Photographer
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New York | NY | USA | Posted: 9:03 PM on 08.06.09 |
->> As a former baseball card collector, I think something like this would be good for the hobby. I used to collect from the mid-80s up until the early-90s. It used to be fun to collect when there were only three sets a year to complete (Topps, Fleer and Donruss). Then all of a sudden came Upper Deck and competition seemed to get crazy. Upper Deck by far made the best baseball cards. They had the best photos and the glossy stock the cards were printed on were amazing. $2 for a pack of cards was way expensive, but way worth it.
The other companies realized making a premium product would make them more money so they all started following suit. The Fleer decided to start putting in "chase" cards - cards that were randomly inserted in packs that made up a subset. Upper Deck one upped them by starting to randomly insert autographed and game used bat/jersey cards. And before you know it packs of cards were $5, $10, and some even more.
All of a sudden a small time collector like me couldn't afford to collect. I used to be able to complete a set of Topps for $25. Now I couldn't even buy a box of cards for less than $50 - and that wouldn't even come close to completing a set. High end collectors were now the focus of the big companies. They wanted the autographed cards, the game used cards, the short printed rookie cards.
Kids no longer collected when that happened - that's when Pokemon or whatever started getting hot.
What used to be one annual set each from the big three somehow morphed into thirty, forty (I honestly lost count) different sets a year.
I think MLB finally realized it was getting out of control. Now after a quick google, it looks like Upper Deck bought out Fleer and I don't know what happened to Donruss. Regardless, baseball cards haven't been marketed towards kids since the early 90s. The focus towards high end collectors alienated a lot of the market and a lot of potential MLB fans. I'm sure MLB finally realized having too much competition was actually hurting the brand and thus the decision to make Topps exclusive. Besides it was Topps that popularized baseball cards.
Now on the photography side of the house, I'm sure a lot of great Upper Deck photographers might be out of the job, but hopefully once the card business is revitalized, it will become non-exclusive again and those positions will reappear. |
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Dave Doonan, Photographer
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Kingston | TN | USA | Posted: 11:27 PM on 08.06.09 |
->> maybe Scott Kelby can have a contest called "Spend Spring Training as a Topps Baseball card Photographer."
A luck winner can shoot photos with a Topps Photograher, have a hearty lunch and enjoy the game just like the Pros.
Eacept the fact there won't be any pros. |
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Daniel Putz, Photographer
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Jefferson | MD | USA | Posted: 12:02 AM on 08.07.09 |
->> I see this is a positive thing. Possibly in the future, if trading cards get popular again, MLB might change it's mind...but as it stands now, their strategy is valid.
BTW, what ever happened to those mini-cd baseball cards? With the videos and stuff...man those were cool. |
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William Maner, Photographer
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Biloxi | MS | USA | Posted: 1:11 AM on 08.07.09 |
->> To Michael Ip...
I'm a 50-something guy. I probably picked up my first pack of baseball cards some 50 years ago. I've never been a big collector, but I've casually followed the sports card scene over the years. I know what you mean when you write about premium packs.
I have to tell you--when I last went to an exclusive sports card shop, I was stunned at new packs of cards selling for $25-$30 a pack or more.. I'm talking new stuff that promises a collectible in every pack.
I would have never thought that there would be about 30-40 different kinds of new packs a kid could buy. We're talking about $5, $7, and $10 packs..
Just to think I paid a penny or a nickle a pack for cards way, way back in the day.
I guess the wildest thing I ever saw at a big-time sportscard show was back in 1991.. A dealer had a couple of unopened boxes of 1986-87 Fleer basketball wax packs. He was asking $100 a pack.. A fellow walked up and peeled ten $100 bills from a wad on money he had and bought ten packs. I know he got one Michael Jordan rookie card out of the packs.. Just about every recent hall of fame player had a rookie card in that Fleer edition--Charles Barkley, Hakeem Olajuwon, John Stockton, Karl Malone, Clyde Drexler, Patrick Ewing, Dominique Wilkins, etc.. That Fleer set was the first set of basketball cards offered since the Topps cards of 1981-82.
I will say this, Upper Deck changed the market forever when they first hit the shelves in 1989. The other companies, Topps, Fleer, Donruss, and Score had to change. In a way, it's fitting that you have two companies still standing, Topps and Upper Deck. They may compete for years, or one may fold in a few years. It will be interesting to see what happens over the years.. |
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Chuck Steenburgh, Photographer
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Lexington | VA | USA | Posted: 2:38 AM on 08.07.09 |
->> Michael M-
The so-called monopoly in this case is held by Topps, not MLB...no? If MLB had its monopoly status withdrawn by Congress, it could still sell rights to things it owns or controls. Including an exclusive deal if they saw fit.
This situation is no more "monopolistic" than the NCAA selling TV rights to CBS. Is the fact that only one network can broadcast the Olympics or Final Four a "monopoly"?
Or a photographer being the "sole provider" of images he or she takes.
:) |
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James Escher, Photographer
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Garden City | NY | USA | Posted: 7:33 AM on 08.07.09 |
->> I found this snippet of Richard Sandomir's (NY Times) article interesting:
"A spokesman for Upper Deck, based in Carlsbad, Calif., said only that it renewed its trading card license with the Major League Baseball Players Association last month and would keep producing cards. While the union license gives Upper Deck the right to use player likenesses, it will no longer have the rights to team logos and trademarks."
Upper Deck obviously has no intention of willingly giving up its share of the baseball card market, but it would seem that their having an agreement in place with the MLBPA (players association) while MLB sold the right of exclusivity to Topps possibly creates a conflict of interest, despite MLB and the MLBPA being separate entities who represent the interests of separate parties. Regardless of whether or not a conflict of interest exists, it will be interesting to see how Upper Deck handles the logistics of creating a product while having to overcome some very challenging obstacles.
James Escher |
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Christopher Kays, Photographer
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Benton | IL | USA | Posted: 9:51 AM on 08.07.09 |
->> Michael Ip said ---> "Upper Deck by far made the best baseball cards. They had the best photos and the glossy stock the cards were printed on were amazing. $2 for a pack of cards was way expensive, but way worth it."
That's how I feel. I collected hockey cards, but same principle. |
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William Maner, Photographer
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Paul Cunningham, Photo Editor, Student/Intern
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Glen Rock | NJ | US | Posted: 10:54 AM on 08.07.09 |
| ->> Upper Deck still has an MLB license to produce products other than trading cards. This will allow them to obtain credentials and keep shooting. If they choose to produce trading cards without marks and logos, their product will undoubtedly lose cache, but they still have a bunch of options for obtaining content. |
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Doug Holleman, Photographer
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Temple | TX | USA | Posted: 6:48 PM on 08.07.09 |
->> It was the money I was making with trading card companies in the 90s that made me think, "hey, maybe I can actually make a living as a freelance photographer!"
I've been broke ever since. |
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Chuck Steenburgh, Photographer
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Lexington | VA | USA | Posted: 7:35 PM on 08.07.09 |
| ->> I fail to see where there's a "conflict of interest" in Upper Deck having an agreement with the players association. |
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Geoff Miller, Photographer
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Portage | MI | USA | Posted: 9:15 AM on 08.08.09 |
| ->> If there's any good that might come out of this, it may be the end of "game used" cards as a means to draw competitive sales. As a collector of game worn hockey jerseys it pains me to no end to see card companies take scissors to a jersey (even if it's a "one game wonder", but a lot aren't) or slice equipment into razor thin pieces to put in a card. When I saw the traveling Baseball HoF exhibit at The Ford Museum a couple of years ago, all I could think of was how the card companies would love to get their hands on some of the stuff I was looking at and cut/saw it into hundreds of pieces. |
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Mark Peters, Photographer
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Highland | IL | USA | Posted: 9:26 AM on 08.08.09 |
| ->> I'm with Chuck. There might be competing interests at play, but I'm not seeing where MLB/MLBPA or either of the two card companies have a conflict of interest. |
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Michael Ip, Student/Intern, Photographer
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New York | NY | USA | Posted: 10:54 AM on 08.08.09 |
->> Geoff - I totally agree. A bunch of years ago I bought a pack of cards and was lucky enough to get a Michael Jordan game worn jersey card and I was ecstatic. Instinct told me to put it on ebay right away, which I did.
The hobby has become so inundated with such cards, that you can get the same card on ebay for about 1/5th of what I sold it for back in 2001.
I think the card companies were cannibalizing themselves and if the NBA, NFL and NHL are smart, they should consider limiting the number of sets each company can release. Hopefully that will also limit the game used cards. |
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Nic Coury, Photographer
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Monterey | CA | | Posted: 5:28 PM on 08.08.09 |
->> Funny thing is I just wrote a story about sports card collecting, from the point of view of when I was a kid and collected and then found other hobbies. I wrote about this one shop locally and how it's still going strong and the attraction to collecting.
The owner was telling me how cards now have a scarcity factor that older, vintage stuff do not have and some of the cards they make are really neat, even with parts of a player's game bat or sliver of a basketball in it with an autograph, and with a number 1-of-1.
I think it can be an investment with newer products if you have the only one of that card. |
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Jeff Jones, Photo Editor
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Gallup | NM | USA | Posted: 10:38 PM on 08.08.09 |
->> They did the same thing with comic books. Issue number one of a title having six different covers that combined into a large poster and so on. And prices went from $0.50-0.75/ issue to more than $3.00 each. I had a job and I couldn't afford them any more.... A lot of kids couldn't afford to collect, and us middle aged guys had other expenses. Comics were really struggling to stay in business.
With the downturn of the economy the idea of going to a single card company might very well be in the best interest of the fans... |
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Phil Hawkins, Photographer
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Fresno | ca | usa | Posted: 1:31 PM on 08.09.09 |
| ->> I used to get my baseball cards off the back of Post cereal in the early 60's. Had the complete roster of every NL team and most AL teams in 1961 or thereabouts. Many years later, my mom threw them out cleaning the attic one day. |
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William Maner, Photographer
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Biloxi | MS | USA | Posted: 1:49 PM on 08.09.09 |
->> Phil Hawkins...
I know what you mean.. I had a few of the old Post Cereal cards as well.. Between my mom throwing stuff away and the hurricanes washing stuff away, I just have my memories to get by on..
Those Post cards were tough. The were subject to all kinds of condition problems, rub marks due to the constant shuffling of boxes on the shelves, poor registration in printing issues, kids not cutting the cards cleanly with scissors, general handling issues, etc..
An average condition set of Post cards still commands a decent amount of money, but a truly mint set commands an exceptional premium because of the dearth of "Grade A" quality cards. |
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David G. McIntyre, Photographer
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Beijing | . | CHINA | Posted: 6:41 PM on 08.10.09 |
->> Now Upper Deck with have to have exclusive for NFL and NBA?
I wonder what they will do, according to Paul Cunningham's post. |
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Paul Cunningham, Photo Editor, Student/Intern
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Glen Rock | NJ | US | Posted: 7:33 PM on 08.10.09 |
->> I may have been premature in my assertion that Upper Deck has an MLB license for products other than trading cards.
It seems more likely that Upper Deck no longer has an MLB license in any form.
I noticed that Upper deck still plans to produce baseball cards. This begs the question of where they will obtain photos.
Without an MLB license, they won't be able to get credentials.
Getty Images (MLB's official photographic partner) won't be able to license images to them.
In the trading card business, an MLB license is critical.
Without it, the cash cow dies... |
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