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Resurrecting a post in article -- Ask Sports Shooter: 'Why s
Stanley Leary, Photographer
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Roswell | GA | USA | Posted: 11:43 AM on 08.01.09 |
->> Just read article on front page. I think it is very accurate about how newspapers can offer a unique perspective for their community and thus agree with all the points David Eulitt makes.
My comments are more about what the article doesn’t address—the business perspective.
The whole point behind the discussion when I participated on the forum seems to still not being addressed in David Eulitt’s article.
Based on David Eulitt’s comments, David Eulitt’s photos with the Kansas City Star’s sports writers should be able to publish material that the sports fans are willing to pay money to read and enjoy. There is so much interest that this alone should mean without question that Kansas City Star’s photographers work and the writers will be compensated.
So, is the Kansas City Star’s circulation growing or shrinking? This is the bottom line question that was missing in the article for me. Based on David Eulitt’s comments he should be able to say Kansas City Star’s circulation is staying the same or growing because without their staff’s coverage fans would not be able to know the ins and outs of the team.
Again, I agree David Eulitt’s should get unique material, but do sports fans line up and pay to see it?
I personally believe the argument is totally lacking any business perspective.
It is equivalent to the new photographer who says I could shoot that if I just had the opportunity. Without proof that readers are paying for the Kansas City Star’s quality work the paper has basically spent a great deal of money for quality beyond what the public is willing to buy.
My point is that most of the audience is satisfied with mediocre if it is free.
SECOND
I do believe that the wire services are not covering the local high school sports which does give the Kansas City Star readers something they cannot get anywhere else—thus justifying a business model where supply and demand will have readers laying out cash for access.
I feel like way too many newspapers newsrooms are becoming elitist in justifying their coverage, rather than justifying their coverage based on what the population needs are in their circulation area.
I believe Sports, Business and Feature sections of the newspaper, for example, are the sections if done well will have readers lining up for the content. The News section for me is the most important part of the paper. Helping inform the population about what is going on in their community, state, nation and world so the audience can be informed in this republic of ours, so that they can be informed voters.
My questions are still--Can you justify sending your photographers to events where their is content your paper is paying to publish (wire service) is already available? Second, wouldn't it make more sense to take all these resources and cover the things the wire services are not providing? Third, why does your paper subscribe to the wire service and pay staff to cover the same event when you are looking at layoffs? |
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Adam Vogler, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Kansas City | Mo. | USA | Posted: 1:49 PM on 08.01.09 |
->> I've been responsible for pulling Chiefs photos from the wire for the last two papers I've worked for and let me tell there isn't always a large amount to chose from.
Personally I hate having to settle for "A" shot over "THE" shot from a game, and readers DO notice. I hear several times a week from readers lamenting the reduction in coverage by local papers due to staff reductions.
I know of several people who subscribe to the Star specifically for coverage of the Chiefs and to a lesser degree the Royals. If this coverage had AP next to it it would be and is noticed.
Finally I don't do mediocre, at least not on purpose,and I wouldn't want to work with or for anyone who did. Good enough never is. |
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Stanley Leary, Photographer
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Roswell | GA | USA | Posted: 1:55 PM on 08.01.09 |
->> Hey Adam:
Can you answer the questions? Is the readership staying the same or going up because of the coverage of the better images?
Should the publisher pay for double the coverage by subscribing to the wire service?
I would suspect the readership is dropping and layoffs have happened, but I may be wrong. If it has dropped off how can you cost justify your perspective and then layoff people? |
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Adam Vogler, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Kansas City | Mo. | USA | Posted: 2:03 PM on 08.01.09 |
->> I can't speak for the Star but in Independence our readership is stable and even growing a bit but staff reductions have significantly reduced the newsroom.
The thing is reducing coverage is not going to help, you will just continue to lose readers. I had lunch with a colleague who is also the sole photog at a small daily and both of us agreed that we would happily lose wire photos all together. For what it costs us we could hire some part-timers/freelancers and have all local produced content.
Bottom line reducing coverage isn't going to help matters, just hammer another nail in the coffin. Sure somethings have to and should go, but in this town Chiefs coverage isn't one of them. |
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Stanley Leary, Photographer
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Roswell | GA | USA | Posted: 2:19 PM on 08.01.09 |
->> Adam:
Seems the facts are supporting my comments even at your paper. Why the layoffs?
Don't get me wrong, no one can argue against how much better the coverage maybe of those events where the paper is already paying for a writer and photographer (wire service) because your focus is more on the one team.
But my question is couldn't you cover something else with your time that your community isn't having covered, thus adding even more value for your community than just covering something already paid for coverage through the budget? Are there not other sporting events happening in the community that there is no coverage for at the moment? |
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Nick Morris, Photographer
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San Marcos | CA | United States | Posted: 2:42 PM on 08.01.09 |
| ->> I think I may have come up with an idea that would seriously help the local paper I string for (North County Times) The plan can work for any newspaper in the industry and just might be the answer. Now I'm by no means a business professional and I certainly don't claim to know how to run a newspaper but, I do know how to fight for my own job and look for ways to increase my workload. As a freelancer I have felt the crunch more than most and other freelancer will agree to this. We were living a pretty good life before all the cuts and layoffs. Suddenly the pool we have enjoyed swimming so freely in has suddenly and unexpectedly become over crowded with talent. The thing I found most alarming is all of that talent that was released onto the market didn't have to go the the back of the freelance line. On the contrary they all went to the front of the line with all their contacts and network of editors. It's made my job 10 times harder. I don't mean I have to work harder at my skills I mean I have to work harder at finding work. I used to spend my off time with family and friends and now every minute of spare time is spent looking for more work. Now this idea may or may not be the answer but if you ask "What does the newspaper industry need?" More readers and advertisers! Sounds simple enough. So I thought to myself where the hell can you get more readers and advertisers. The latter being the tougher one now that anyone can advertise for free on Craigslist and several places throughout the internet. Well, I may have found the answer. Actually I know I found the answer! After I CAUTIOUSLY approach the editor with this idea and hopefully secure myself with more work I'll let everyone know how it went and what it is that may help the Newspaper. Wish me... or should I say wish us luck! |
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Adam Vogler, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Kansas City | Mo. | USA | Posted: 5:27 PM on 08.01.09 |
->> Stan, your missing my point.
My readers WANT the Chiefs covered, and as David said so do KC Star readers. In fact the Star is where most Chiefs fans I know go to read about the game. I know many people who only buy the Monday paper, just for the Chiefs coverage (this is throughout Kan, and Mo.) This situation doesn't apply to any other situation in other areas. What you have to do is look at what YOUR readers want and give it to him. In Independence and KC that's Chiefs.
"Why the layoffs?" I work at a newspaper. |
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Stanley Leary, Photographer
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Roswell | GA | USA | Posted: 6:10 PM on 08.01.09 |
->> Adam:
Can they not get the coverage if the paper ran the wire service material? This is my point. Not about not delivering the material.
Do they really care about the nuance difference of the staff's coverage as compared to the wire service? If so, how can you support that position? |
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Robert Hanashiro, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | | Posted: 6:42 PM on 08.01.09 |
| ->> Yes, you obviously did not get it. |
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Adam Vogler, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Kansas City | Mo. | USA | Posted: 6:49 PM on 08.01.09 |
->> "Can they not get the coverage if the paper ran the wire service material?" Not at the level that is expected.
"Do they really care about the nuance difference of the staff's coverage as compared to the wire service?" Yes, they do.
"how can you support that position?" Their [readers] comments on said coverage/lack of coverage.
Just providing coverage isn't gonna cut it in this competitive of an environment. I often cover assignments that have AP and KC Star writers/photogs there. Should I just pack up and go home because I can get "content" from them. To do so is a recipe for failure. I work for a hyper-local paper. I cover what is important to the residents of my coverage area. This is what my readers expect me and my co-workers to do. It would be noticed if stories and photos had AP next to them instead of our names.
I took this to be the premise of David’s article, look at what your readers are interested in, and give it to them, give them content they can't get anywhere else.
Giving readers content they can get everywhere else and for free to boot is gonna get you in trouble. |
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Max Lashin, Photographer, Assistant
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Fort Lauderdale | FL | United States | Posted: 6:52 PM on 08.01.09 |
->> I personally believe the average joe sports fan does care about the difference. A local sports staffer will create a product that is based too his/her audience. They produce a basic report on the game/practice but in addition they produce that local feel to it, not a basic AP report. These writers also create blogs and twitter posts that many readers can interact with.. Last I checked I wasnt able to tweet my local FSU AP reporter and have him tweet back at me...
I look at it from the Tallahassee Democrat's view, the paper I used to freelance for. They have their staffers who produce all of those individual things. They have the feel of what the locals want, and their articles are written just that way. Now if they took AP articles and photos where would they be? All they would have is a basic game report and a couple photos. Instead with the local staffers, a writer can text the local staff photog about a player, play etc that he/she may want covered. So if #99 happened to already have 2 sacks before halftime and this is where the writer is leaning towards on their article, they can tell the photographer to keep an eye out for #99 on each play...
Just take a look at the comments on all of these blogs or articles that the local staffer writes. It always the interaction a fan wants. |
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Bob Ford, Photographer
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Lehighton | Pa | USA | Posted: 7:01 PM on 08.01.09 |
->> The big reason many papers are cutting staff positions isn't because of decreasing subscription numbers, but because of lower advertising sales. Anyone in the newspaper business knows that the majority of their income comes from advertising, not subscriptions.
With that said, they are related. The higher your circulation the more you can charge for advertising.
I personally don't think we will ever see advertising where it was, especially in the classified section. Ten years ago if you wanted to sell something you put an ad in the local paper's classified section. Same if you wanted to hire someone. Now people either put it on eBay or Craigs List. |
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Michael Fischer, Photographer
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Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 8:30 PM on 08.01.09 |
->> Stanley,
Your contention is, if I read you correctly, that the average reader doesn't care who the news comes from. If that's the case, why not just use the wire service and allocate your resources to other areas.
If that is correct, there are two or three basic weaknesses with your contention.
1) You're not targeting the "average" reader - you should be targeting the reader who is passionate about the subject and expects more than average. That will eliminate the news services for the most part.
2) By targeting the person who has passion, pricing becomes less of a issue - the passionate reader who is receiving value will pay more -to a point. As long as he or she feels they are receiving value they will pay the price.
3)If you read the thread I started about my friend who bought his newspapers back from Gatehouse, you will recall that in all of the corporate meetings he ever attended, at no time did anyone consider the impact that cuts make in the quality - and therefore the value - of the product. This is why I sneer at corporate mentality.
We all buy value to one extent or another. I'm typing this on a iMac. There were cheaper computers I could have bought, but because I believe that editing on a Mac is easier and better - I spent more. To me, the Mac is a better value even if it costs more.
Corporate only looks at a decline in revenues in one way - cut staff because it's the biggest cost. When you cut staff you cut the building blocks that build value in your selling proposition. It's counter intuitive to the accounting types - and those are the clowns in control. It is why I've written over and over that it's a very slippery slope when you start cutting your most experienced reporters and photographers. When the work doesn't look any better than your cell phone shots, you're screwed.
IF you local writers are no better than the AP, then your assumption makes sense. Clearly, any daily worth it's salt can do better.
Tip O'Neil once said "all politics is local". That applies to newspapers and businesses, too. Cover the Chiefs better, cover the high schools better, cover local government better, the local art and theater scene, anything enough people care about that you can provide information and expertise in works. If you provide something they can't easily get anywhere else, then you have a winner.
And for goodness sakes, don't give it away for FREE.
Michael |
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Stanley Leary, Photographer
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Roswell | GA | USA | Posted: 9:21 PM on 08.01.09 |
->> Michael:
My contention is and has been that AP and other wire services for the most part are producing professional coverage of major sports in most markets. I personally haven't seen a wide gap here after events in general.
I am not questioning if readers appreciate the difference--but obviously not enough to support this business model which is failing rapidly all over the country.
If the argument was true and factual as many here believe then advertisers and readers would be lined up. This wasn't the case before the financial crisis either.
It can be shown in many places around the country that the small town paper is still thriving. These papers don't even try to cover the big sporting events for the most part, but they do cover their local high school sports.
Getting comments that people appreciate your work is far different than advertisers and subscriptions which are paying for it.
Bob Ford connected the dots really well with advertising and subscriptions. Surveys are obviously wrong that people are wanting this coverage if the subscriptions and advertising don't follow and pay for it.
Sports Illustrated is an example of where people will line up and pay for quality, both in subscriptions and advertising. I am not seeing this with major market newspapers. |
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Michael Fischer, Photographer
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Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 10:09 PM on 08.01.09 |
->> Stanley,
The other part of your question : IF the wire services can handle the Chiefs or whatever as well as the local paper, why wouldn't it make sense to use them and allocate resources to other places?
Short answer: It would.
Ultimately, every organization has the same challenge: Allocating scarce resources to get the best return on one's investment. I believe that's what you're arguing, isn't it? The question is simple: What will produce the best return? If the local papers can produce high enough quality work, that will attract eyeballs, which in turn attracts advertisers. To be successful at beating the wire services, a local paper has to allocate a much larger amount of resources to produce significantly better results. (For those of you who have read "The Art of War" by Sun Tzu,this is the application of more resources at the critical point.) Your point is: They aren't. Of course, who decides this are people who can choose to buy and read the paper or get their information somewhere else. That's the critical point. Produce significantly better results at a affordable price and you win the value battle.
I believe that a basic problem with this industry when faced with a marketing problem - selling content - the accountants took over. Accountants don't solve marketing problems - marketers do. Full disclosure: I am a marketing guy so I'm going to feel that way.
Yes, the small town papers are successful - WHEN they aren't operated like a corporate owned entity. I can show you some examples of where it hasn't worked due to greed and stupidity. Trust me, I'm well experienced on that.
I don't think you will see the marketing approach with a lot of larger newspapers, Stanley. Virtually all of them are corporate owned, and virtually all of them playing by the corporate playbook. MBAs, Wall Street and newspapers don't work together. This is one industry where LOCAL ownership makes the most sense.
So, I think your point may be true.
I also think if newspapers viewed this as a marketing challenge, it would be a much different outcome.
M |
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Adam Vogler, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Kansas City | Mo. | USA | Posted: 10:19 PM on 08.01.09 |
->> The article is about applying resources to cover LOCAL events fully. I take it as being applicable to just about every sized publication. You figure out what stories are of LOCAL importance and apply your resources accordingly. In David's example he uses the KANSAS CITY Chiefs because he works for the KANSAS CITY Star. It is THE LOCAL team that readers care about.
The principle can be applied across the board. When I was at Emporia I went to every road high school football game sometimes traveling several hours, it was a great expenditure in time and mileage but it was what our readers wanted. Could I have traded photos with their local paper and had photos, sure, but it would not have been of the same quality as going myself. Not that I am a better shooter than the locals just that I was in a better position to get THE story telling image rather than just A photo from the game.
Stan are you actually arguing that half-assing coverage is the way to save newspapers? I've seen papers that rely on AP and shared stories to fill their pages. They are not doing well. How exactly is NOT covering LOCAL going to help? The loss of ad revenue has very little to do with the content in the paper. Providing poor coverage is just going to add to the problem.
Nowhere did I see David advocate small newspapers using their resources to cover pro sports to the detriment of other coverage. He used the Star’s coverage of the Chiefs as an example of how to get the most bang for your buck. Something that can be applied at every newspaper. At least that’s how I took it.
I’m in complete agreement with Michael, this sort of coverage is not for the “average” reader, they probably don’t care and will settle for whatever they can get for free online. That ship has sailed and its probably never coming back. I’m concerned with keeping the invested readers who really care about the coverage, in David’s example that is a large number of Chiefs fans spread across two states. Provide adequate coverage about what they care about and your going to lose them.
BTW high schools don't play on Sunday, so my coverage of the Chiefs is not using up anything but my time (I’m on salary) and the 10 miles it takes to drive to Arrowhead, in fact I probably have a shorter drive than David. This will allow me to ensure coverage that coincides with the writers story. Sure David and the AP will probably out shoot me every game (not that I’m conceding defeat) but their photos are for their readers and my photos are for MY readers.
Stan you keep using arguments about advertisers drying up to prove your point when that has very little to do with the coverage in the paper and a lot more to do with current economics and the changing nature of advertising. That is a point for a debate about content delivery and revnue generation not the content itself. No newsroom should be making decisions on content based on the reactions of advertisers. |
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Michael Durisseau, Photographer, Assistant
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Santa Fe/Houston | TX | USA | Posted: 10:46 PM on 08.01.09 |
| ->> I think there is something else about this that hasn't been mentioned: While there may be no gap in coverage, wire versus local, the key is that the local writers/photographers cater to the _local_ readers, while the wire services have to (possibly) write for the largest audience, and would miss some of the details that locals would know about and pick up on...we don't use a wire service at our 'hyper-local' paper, but our readers and the publisher expect me to write on the nuances that most miss. |
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Adam Vogler, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Kansas City | Mo. | USA | Posted: 12:00 AM on 08.02.09 |
->> Exactly, Michael. With us having wire on the front would not lead to a good day with the bosses.
Am I as good as the guy/gals at the Star and AP. Of course not, I'm 2 yrs outta school. does this mean that I can't get a better shot than them. Hell no, probably not going to happen very often but I'm going to gun for it every time. Does it mean that they are going to do a better service for MY readers. No. They cover the metro I cover Independence/ Blue Springs. My audience may be a part of their audience but it is all of my audience. A prime example of this is that Independence is going to be the home of a new minor league hockey team. The Star probably won’t cover every game but I’ll be there for every game, press conference, etc. cause its LOCAL. An Independence hockey team isn’t important to much of the Stars coverage are therefore not worth the expenditure of resources. For us though its vital to cover every aspect in full cause its LOCAL. |
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