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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Success against the odds...
Jamey Price, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Danville | KY | USA | Posted: 4:43 PM on 06.25.09 |
->> Hey all,
I'm working as a PJ intern at the Charlotte Observer this summer and one of the projects that I'm working on is documenting the build up and eventually the event of a 24 hour charity bike race that runs in Charlotte each year on our famous "Booty" loop in very scenic Myers Park which is JUST south of Downtown.
In documenting this, I wanted to go for images that are unique and that make you say "wow!". Clearly that is something we all strive for but doing that when so many have covered bike races is a hard thing to do. One of my initial ideas was to attach the Nikon to my bike (I am a road cyclist and triathlete as well) and ride in front of the guy I'm doing this story on.
Upon mentioning the idea to colleagues in the office, I got mixed results on their opinions of how well it would work and was told a few times that it wouldnt work at all and to essentially give up. Personally, I thought it was an original enough idea and the slim chance to succeed was probably worth my time to try it anyway.
Well long and the short. It worked. And worked very very well. I had the magic arm clamped to the seat strut and had it locked into place facing backward with the Nikon D200 and fixed 14mm lens set on manual focus at about 4 feet. I fired it using two pocket wizards...one in my left hand (the right hand was busy changing gears and braking) and the other on the camera. The aim was to get enough blur to show our speed (22mph) and fast enough to keep them tack sharp.
Anyway, I just thought I would share. Again, I'm very excited with how this adventurous shoot came out. Perfect? Not by a long shot but its a darn good start if you ask me. Whats even better is that the camera gear all came back in one piece with only one close call in losing the pocket wizard around a turn.
I'm going to try it again next week and probably up the shutter speed a stop to get even more clarity in their faces. I'm curious to see what you think of it.
One of the photos from the shoot is my lead on my SS profile. Check it out there.
Jamey |
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Stan Cochrane, Photographer
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Charlotte | NC | USA | Posted: 5:39 PM on 06.25.09 |
->> Jamey,
Surprises me that Jeff (Siner), and David (Foster) would tell you not to give it a try, perhaps they were on the positive mixed side of the opinions. They both seem to be "think out side of the box guys". I like the shot, and look forward to the coverage. Are you going to try this during the race? Enjoyed he lawn mower races as well. |
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Jamey Price, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Danville | KY | USA | Posted: 8:47 PM on 06.25.09 |
->> Well, you nailed it right on the head, Stan. They were two that said do it. Jeff in particular was very helpful with helping perfect the rig.
And yes, I plan to be out during part of the daylight hours taking photos of the story's subject doing much of the same. I think it will be interesting to see him (and me for that matter) fatigue over 24 hours. |
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Karl Stolleis, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Santa Fe | NM | | Posted: 11:51 PM on 06.25.09 |
->> Part of being a photographer is trusting yourself and trying new things.
Number One - You will always have hairbrained ideas.
Number Two - There will always be critics.
Number Three - Dont be so small minded as to post something calling out folks that "didnt agree with you" unless you have a full concept of why they didnt think your idea wouldnt work
Number Four - celebrate your victories and explore your failures - within yourself |
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Jamey Price, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Danville | KY | USA | Posted: 9:21 AM on 06.26.09 |
->> #1 Got it.
# 2 Being a critic is one thing. Telling someone straight up that it wont work is another. Thats small minded if you ask me.
#3 Im not being small minded at all. I am saying that an idea I had was backed up by a few and criticized by many and the idea was solid enough (in my eyes) to give it a try no matter the final outcome.
#4 Im very excited with how it came out considering I had no control over composition and that this was not a staged magazine shoot where I can tell them how to look feel and act behind me. It was a training ride where they are actually training and I was staying out of their way and just leading the draft line but keeping their pace.
It is not a finished product, I just wanted to share something cool I had done for the rest of you so that should one of you have an idea similiar to this, you can build off what I did. |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Jamey Price, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Danville | KY | USA | Posted: 9:55 AM on 06.26.09 |
| ->> Interesting concept. Not a fan of the music he put with it but it is a novel idea and is well put together. |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 9:57 AM on 06.26.09 |
->> You also forgot:
#5 It's been done before.
But maybe if you keep trying you'll make it special. |
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Jamey Price, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Danville | KY | USA | Posted: 10:17 AM on 06.26.09 |
->> Ok Chuck. What would you do? Because in all the posts I've had you answer, you seem to be full of "yours is not original" answers so what would you do to make it "different"
And do you have examples of other people doing this? Im not looking for shots from the back of a motorcycle during the tour de france. If you say its been done before, lets see something because i haven't seen anything where a biker has a camera hooked up and is shooting a race during the race. Have you? |
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Jamey Price, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Danville | KY | USA | Posted: 10:25 AM on 06.26.09 |
->> And that is not sarcasm. I honestly want to know your opinion on how to make it better.
And remember, I am not shooting this staged. These guys are people training. Im not making them stop, let me adjust the flash on you you need to slow down, you need to move right, move left ect. I don't want it to be that way. Real people. Training for a real race. |
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Steve Apps, Photographer
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Madison | WI | USA | Posted: 11:15 AM on 06.26.09 |
->> Jamey,
It is nice that you are excited about personally trying new ways to photograph something.
I looked at the photo, and in this case the photo is good, but not great.
This discussion reminds me of something my photojournalism professor told me over twenty years ago. "Don't judge a photo in relation to the amount of work it took to get it"
Chuck is right about the end product, the photo's "look" has been done before.
I rode 60 miles on the back of a motorcycle last fall photographing a Ironman and have hundreds of photos that look like the one you shot.
I'm not a expert in clamps or remotes so I really can't tell you how to make it better.
Keep experimenting and keep shooting. All of this experience is part of your development as a photographer. |
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Manuello Paganelli, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 12:05 PM on 06.26.09 |
->> Jamey they key word here is Student/Intern so you are learning and excited and I got that for I was that way too at the start of my career at the Chattanooga Time in the 80’s.
Yet you also want a place that at the end of your internship the ME or DoP can say to you
“Job well done and everybody thinks you are cool. How would you like to work for us full time starting next month or once you finish school?”
When you think of a project just follow your gut feelings and don’t worry if someone at the paper tells you “it can’t be done” or it has been done already” that is bound to happen. The ingredients that you need are your talent and new ideas, the execution and a dose of humility. Usually those ideas come from your own vision and nobody else may help you. Otherwise they would do it themselves.
So just go and do it and see what you would get and then let your images speak for themselves That is what I do with my own work. IF you can try some of that then your career is on the right gear.
Also keep in mind that during most races a photographer in a bike ahead of the peloton and using a flash is a NO NO. So your idea will have lots of limitations.
So here you were able to execute your idea and came out better than what other “doubters” at the paper told you.
But why do you have to mention this?
“I got mixed results on their opinions of how well it would work and was told a few times that it wouldn’t work at all and to essentially give up.”
If it weren’t for Stan C who came to your rescue I would have thought that every body at the photo dept had been negative towards your idea. But then you corrected yourself.
Then you went deeper and a bit petulant with this comment,
“# 2 Being a critic is one thing. Telling someone straight up that it wont work is another. Thats small minded if you ask me.”
Are you for real?? You are saying that the 70 or 80% of the folks from that paper or photo dept that disagreed with you are small minded?
IF I was a staffer at that paper reading this, which I am sure they did, it may come out this way
“Hee Hee Heeee… Me Jamey Price, I got it right and you guys are sore losers Everybody at SS can see my precious photos when you didn’t think it would work out. LOSERS.”
Then Chuck was trying to show you another version yet you went after him.
How about this, “Chuck unique and different way of doing it. Thanks for sharing this with me and for taking the time to do the research.”
You even criticized the music which has nothing to do with the concept. “Not a fan of the music he put...”
In all of this where does student/intern comes in??
Dude be careful you may be sabotaging yourself - NOT TO MENTION YOUR FUTURE- by coming out as an arrogant little SOB and soon those North Carolina boys will be happy your ASS is back in KY.
Jamey don’t let your enthusiasm blinds you or lead you the wrong way. Think, observe, learn, do it and think again. Let your work, AND WORK ALONE, do the talk.
And ALWAYS try to be respectful to those who are helping you or giving you a chance to learn and to grow and it doesn’t matter if they know less than you or are less talented.
More 2 Come
www.ManuelloPaganelli.com |
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David Harpe, Photographer
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Louisville | KY | USA | Posted: 12:29 PM on 06.26.09 |
->> Jamey,
It's very, very difficult to come up with a photographic technique that hasn't been done before, or done in a similar fashion. Did you really, honestly think after all these years no one had thought of superclamping a camera to a bike? C'mon! :-)
But that shouldn't discourage you in the least. It doesn't matter whether it's been done before or not. If we all limited ourselves to unique angles, shots, etc. we'd have a very limited toolkit. You can make a unique photograph with an old technique. People do it everyday. But you have to learn the old technique and add it to your experience before it can be useful to you, and that's what you did here.
A good photograph has all sorts of elements that combine to make it unique, most of them have nothing to do with gear. Subject, timing, moment, background, lighting, emotion, etc. You could be shooting the most boring event in the world with a 50mm prime and if you're able to make all of those elements coalesce at the precise moment you click the shutter, boom! You have greatness.
You should feel good about working the problem, thinking through different ways of seeing the scene, and overcoming opposition to your ideas. Evaluate the experience honestly for both things you did great, and things you can tweak for next time (both on the gear side and the human interaction side). Add all of this to your experience toolbox, and move on to the next subject.
When faced with opposition, remember the rule of thirds: No matter what you do, a third of the people will like it, a third will hate it, a third won't give a damn. |
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Jamey Price, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Danville | KY | USA | Posted: 1:08 PM on 06.26.09 |
->> Manuello and everyone else who has responded. Let me start over because I was wrong. Youre right. I should not have said some of the things that I did...particularly to Chuck. My apologies, Chuck.
So lets start over.
I was in NO way meaning to call out those that didn't agree with me in the chances of success on the project I'm working on. In fact, I don't really think that I did call anyone out. I simply said "I got mixed results on their opinions of how well it would work and was told a few times that it wouldnt work at all and to essentially give up." You then (Manuello) said "Are you for real?? You are saying that the 70 or 80% of the folks from that paper or photo dept that disagreed with you are small minded?" For one, I never ever ever ever mentioned a number or a percentage. I said mixed results and was told a few times..." that does not equal 70-80% of those I polled. So forgive me for saying this but I think that was a lash at me and an over-exaggeration of the single sentence that I mentioned resistance to my idea. I was not calling anyone out. I threw out the rig idea in the office in hopes of getting preliminary feedback or experiences doing a similar project and ideas on making it unique was returned with great enthusiasm and help on one end and stark forecast of failure by the minority on the other hand. Is that not a fair thing to add to a post? If you feel it was, my mistake for including it.
On a similar note, Manuello. In posting this thread on SS my goal was absolutely not to feel gratified in a “Hee Hee Heeee… Me Jamey Price, I got it right and you guys are sore losers Everybody at SS can see my precious photos when you didn’t think it would work out" kind of way. In fact I posted it here for quite the opposite reason. So the idea can be perfected through the eyes of far more experienced sports shooters that float around here. That is why I asked at the end of my first post what thoughts were on the photo. And I am always open to new ideas but one thing that bothers me more then anything in the world is being told without offer of alternative suggestions or ideas that something can't be done. Thats not really how I think, act or feel. There is a quote that I particularly enjoy that goes something like "you dont know how high you can fly until you fall a bit first." Im trying to be original with an event not covered before by this paper in this way. Nothing more. Nothing less.
On another note, of course I know that no idea is 100% original in this day and age. I think that fact is a humbling one for all of us but for me especially. I have seen a few images where a camera was strapped to a bike but I have not see one where the subject is someone other then the rider the camera is strapped to. Hence my idea which I felt was original but I came here to ask for tweaking to the idea based on the first outing with the rig.
As far as technical details of the race, me being on the course is not an issue because it is not really a race which I did not fully explain. It is a charity cycling event where entrants from 10 years old to 100 can compete and ride for as long as they like, be it 10 minutes or 24 hours. The circuit is not a closed course and we share the road with motorists. The only determining factor of the "race" is the time limit of 24 hours. So me sitting in front of the subject as long as Im not in his way is not a problem which will make for an interesting vantage and maybe your experience of sitting on the back of a motorbike is something to take into consideration that I had not thought about. In my photo, nothing tells the viewer that I am on a bike myself so perhaps I should drop the camera or get a wider lens and allow the wheel of my bike to poke into frame.
Again, for some reason my words and feelings are misinterpreted and I sincerely apologize if I offended you (the reader) or came off as an arrogant SOB. I what happened in my situation, I posted this not looking for self gratification in any way but simply to work on the idea with the help of willing and more experienced photographers.
My mistake. |
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