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Police restricting access to scene
Andrew Worrall, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Columbia | M0 | | Posted: 10:00 AM on 06.23.09 |
->> This isn't exactly related to sports, but I figured there are some great minds on here and I'd fish for opinions.
Last Saturday, I went to a scene to photograph the bomb squad responding for several soda bottle bombs. My access was restricted by about a block, even though the opposite side of the street was open to the public, and neighbors were gathering at the end of the driveway of the house where the bombs were.
I asked several times to be let through, citing that the general public was closer than myself. I was never granted access, and an attorney at the SPLC told me the police denying my access to the same point of the general public was unconstitutional.
The attorney recommended writing a letter to the Chief of Police about the incident, which I did. I've now been encouraged by a few to file complaints against the officers (Yes, I got their badge numbers.) Personally, I'm hesitant to create that big of a deal out of this.
Thoughts? |
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Thomas Boyd, Photographer
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Portland | OR | USA | Posted: 10:09 AM on 06.23.09 |
->> This is what editors are for. Let them handle it.
They can have a chat with the chief of police if they think it's worth it. |
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Sean D. Elliot, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Norwich | CT | USA | Posted: 10:34 AM on 06.23.09 |
| ->> Andrew, the police denying you equal access as the public is indeed unconstitutional. It is also a good idea to let someone less personally involved try and do the outreach, like an editor. |
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Andrew Worrall, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Columbia | M0 | | Posted: 10:53 AM on 06.23.09 |
| ->> Thomas and Sean, thanks for the advice. I should add that I was out shooting as a freelancer, not on assignment. |
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Matthew Cavanah, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Columbia | MO | US | Posted: 11:07 AM on 06.23.09 |
->> Andrew,
I can tell you from working at the Missourian, that the Police have a bit of a grudge against journalists. The difference between CPD and the fire department are about as stark as night and day. (Such as CPD just getting a PIO after the new Chief was hired, where CFD has had a few forever).
Are you freelancing for an agency? Did you have a recognizable press badge on? It might have been that you just weren't wearing ID that they recognized such as the Trib or the Missourian badges.
But I suggest waiting to see what the Chief does before you do anything else. If you take legal action before he gets a chance to do anything, it might make things worse, not just for you, but every other photographer in town.
That's just my take because it's CPD. I can't imagine that if we were in a less j-school saturated town that you'd have run across this. |
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Scott Serio, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Colora | MD | USA | Posted: 11:11 AM on 06.23.09 |
->> Fun fun. I have an interesting perspective on this. I do, in fact, own/run my own photography business. But, I am also a police officer. And before I was a police officer, I was a newspaper photographer. So I have this covered from all angles. Here is my take.
1. I don't know where you were, but the general procedures that cover bombs can be interesting. In many cases, the police cannot order residents to leave, but have to keep public safety in mind. So, who stays and who goes? Kind of a gray area that doesn't help you.
2. This may have been completely outside the gray area and been very clear. Maybe you should 100% have been allowed access. Then you run into the "King of ______" syndrome. Everyone has to be king of something. Parking lot attendents, security guards, marshalls on a golf course and, yes, police all are guilty of it. It doesn't make it right, but when you are dealing with the phenomenon, be wary. You could end up in jail. I watched "My Rights" and "King of the Eighth Tee" collide at the McDonald's LPGA and the photographer was very close to wearing handcuffs.
3. Right or wrong, sometimes your safety is important. I did things and went places when I was a student at Missouri that I should just not have been granted access to. Like the Wizard, not no way, not no how. Is a picture worth being seriously injured for? Bombs are serious things. A soda bottle bomb may sound like nothing, but it can kill you.
In the end, you do need to stand up for your rights. You have to weigh if this is a systemic thing with the main police department you cover most frequently or was it just one officer. If it is systemic and you are frequently being denied acces, let the editor handle that. It is a fight that needs to be fought. If you caught an ******* cop or just a cop having a bad day, well, that is your call. Depending how big the town you are in is, filing a complaint might not be the most prudent move. It may set up an adversarial relationship with that department.
Being friendly with the locals can get you tons of access you wouldn't normally get. Being the photographer who filed a complaint might get you whatever access they decide is "prudent for public safety" and then you might just have to bring some serious glass with you to shoot future scenes.
Food for thought. I can tell you that there are TV crews where I work who, when they show up, suddenly the crime scene for EVERYONE gets much larger. I have seen it happen. Is it right? No. Just consider all of the areas this touches before making a complaint. |
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Carlos Delgado, Photographer
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Long Beach | CA | USA | Posted: 12:05 PM on 06.23.09 |
| ->> I had some experiences where the crime scene would keep getting bigger and bigger. When I saw that the yellow tape was coming my way, I asked a resident if I could stand on their property, and they obliged. Police couldn't move me in that situation. |
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Jeff Mills, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Columbus | OH | USA | Posted: 12:16 PM on 06.23.09 |
->> This is yet another time when its a good idea to carry a nice compact camera like a Canon G10, or my personal favorite the Panasonic ZS3 (300mm equiv zoom)
Right or wrong, so many times the general public is allowed to keep shooting away with their compacts while you get singled out for having a big DSLR.
When thats the case you can try to argue with the officers on the scene which is frankly like trying to ice skate uphill, or you can just go over to where the rest of the public is being allowed to gather, pull out your little camera and get your shots.
I can't tell you how many times I've gotten the "no cameras allowed" responce while I see tons of people shooting away with their compacts and camera phones.
Its not right but if you can't beat them, join them |
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Michael Johnson, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Geneseo | NY | USA | Posted: 1:12 PM on 06.23.09 |
->> In my situation I've worked with the police in my area to where they give me better treatment and access to scenes that the T.V. guy's don't get. They trust me but I had to earn their trust.
I remember being on a really bad accident scene where a couple of T.V. crews showed up and started being edgy with the cops cause they needed their footage. I took my shots from the spot where they would allow us. After the T.V. guy's complained enough they game me closer access and not them.
From what I've learned is if your willing to work with them they remember that and it will pay-off. |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 1:38 PM on 06.23.09 |
| ->> As Scott said above all it takes is one guy on a power trip to throw the whole situation into a clusterf@#k. If this was the first time it's ever happened to you let the editor deal with it. I would not advise going after the police the first time access is denied. As long as they didn't physically assault you or harass you I think you need to step back and let the big wigs thrash it out. That said. If this becomes a pattern get the company lawyer involved. Just as in any business there are rogue cops out there. The best way to deal with those types is to handle it in a professional and FIRM manner, the problem is you will have to get the management of the paper involved so the police know the PAPER means business, not just their photographer. Often times this will flush out bad police officers who have no business being on the force. Hope it all works out for you. But to be honest this is a situation which probably happens every single day to working photojournalists in the "Land of the Free and Home of the Brave". |
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Jody Gomez, Photographer
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Murrieta | CA | USA | Posted: 8:21 PM on 06.23.09 |
->> I keep a printout of California Penal Code 409.5 with my media credentials. http://www.sfmuseum.org/quake/409.5.html
Sometimes an officer will try to be the king of the road block and not let me pass through, so I will kindly (and with a smile) say "California Penal Code 409.5 allows me access." 9 times out of 10 that's all it takes to get me through, usually with an admonishment to be careful. On the couple of occasions quoting the penal code didn't work, I cheerfully produced my printout and waited patiently while the officer called his sergeant only to have the sergeant tell him that I am correct in that I have the right to access.
Works like a charm and prevents any problems or arguments from starting.
I don't know how it is in states other than California, but you all should check your penal codes to see what protections you have.
:~)
Jody |
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Mark Peters, Photographer
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Highland | IL | USA | Posted: 8:46 PM on 06.23.09 |
| ->> So why didn't you cross to the other side of the street? |
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Lindy Dugger, Photographer
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Rome | Ga | | Posted: 10:49 PM on 06.23.09 |
->> Any chance anyone knows a similar law to the California Penal Code Jody linked but for the state of Georgia?
I work in a smaller town where most the PD know me and I rarely have a problem, but it would be nice to have my bag just in case. |
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Mike Anzaldi, Photographer
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Oak Park | IL | USA | Posted: 11:40 PM on 06.23.09 |
->> by all means, stand up for yourself. however, expect that jail is a very real option. cops don't have an exceedingly large list of options to choose from when managing people who refuse their orders. makes no difference if the order is lawful. it's not about law for them. it's about winning this ridiculous little struggle that even they couldn't explain. they show up, pee on a bunch trees to mark their 'perimeter', and stand guard.
they have bet all of their chips on you backing down. they win like, 98% of the time? the other times, they arrest you and a judge throws it out for obvious reasons, while rolling his eyes. worst part of news photography around here, hands down. |
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Scott Serio, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Colora | MD | USA | Posted: 12:41 AM on 06.24.09 |
->> See, I was diplomatic and the cop in me has to respond. I have been on both sides of this. You definitely want access, but try to look at the other side.
I have definitely had situations, one very clear one, where we tried to establish a "perimeter" with YELLOW TAPE that allowed access, but didn't compromise the crime scene. Well, sure enough a TV reporter went to the absolute edge, knocked on a closed door, went in a back door and wandered through the building and there he was inside the crime scene taking video of stuff that we tried to protect.
I will concede that there are a good number of "King of The Crime Scene" cops out there. But there are also a ton of good cops who are just trying to keep you safe, the public safe, not get yelled at by a supervisor, not end up looking like a fool on the news and generally just would rather being doing police work instead of having a camera in their face.
There is a world of difference between "I have a right to be in there, let me in or I will get your badge number" and "Sir, I am just trying to do my job and I would prefer not to have my editor yell at me, it would be a ton easier if I could shoot from over there."
True? And carrying the penal code doesn't hurt. But, you will still find one "King of the Crime Scene"...they are out there. Sorry. |
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Matthew Bush, Photographer
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Hattiesburg | MS | USA | Posted: 1:32 AM on 06.24.09 |
->> Bomb Squads are always fun.... I hate to hear you were kept pretty far back.I have had some pretty good luck with bomb squads and one hilarious incident with a hazmat team (ethanol tanker flipped and leaking and I was 50 yards out when a deputy wanted to move me back about 15 yards for my safety. A Highway patrol officer told him to leave me alone because if it blew up we were in trouble no matter where we were standing. )
As for soda bottle bombs I have been around these device (I had some pretty stupid friends in HS) and they are dangerous but the odds of them killing you from 80-200mm range is pretty slim. I have used the other plp get to do it excuse before sometimes it works sometimes it does not. Echoing others... get your editor involved.
Could you have left and driven to the other side of the block and tried from there ?
Scott I love the I don't want my editor to eat me line.... I have had a good laugh with a officer over that... I told him if it was up to me I would be back at lunch that I had left on my desk instead of at a murder scene but unless I got the shoots that my boss was going to have me for lunch. It put things in perspective for him and we still laugh about it |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 1:43 AM on 06.24.09 |
| ->> I should probably keep my mouth (fingers) shut but I feel I should respond to this thread again. After 35 years (yeah I know don't remind me of what an old fart I am) I think there are a lot of things we have to think about now. Many years ago (at least when I got in the business) there was a real camaraderie between law enforcement and journalists. We all shared the "secret" handshake. We saw and shared terrible things that regular people never saw and quite frankly couldn't imagine. Then things changed. Television, instantaneous gratification. Horrible images "slipped" past the guardians. Then it became confrontational. Previous access was denied. The reason? "You bastards will show a dead body". What? In 35 years at EVERY paper I've ever worked at ONE photo of a body was used. And that was back in 1984. The fact of the matter is the police over the years have become more of a paramilitary organization. Plain and simple. That's the bottom line. Nowadays the police really don't give a rat's ass about the media and their rights. As a working member of the "media" I truly think you are better off at any kind of crime/accident scene to leave your credentials in the car, take minimal gear (one camera/lens) and act like you are joe friggin shmoe and get as close to the scene as you can. I realize this will piss some people off but I have been to far too many spot news events in the last two decades and seen members of the general public get within spitting distance of an accident/crime scene while the media was kept fifty to 100 yards away. Just my humble opinion. Sorry for the long post but this is truly one of my pet peeves. |
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David Manning, Photographer
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Athens | GA | | Posted: 7:42 AM on 06.24.09 |
| ->> I had a very good experience with the ATF yesterday. Talked my way into 2 minutes inside the lines. |
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Andrew Worrall, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Columbia | M0 | | Posted: 7:53 AM on 06.24.09 |
->> Mark, good question. I wasn't asked to move until they had the robot by the house and started moving the devices. I was under the impression they would destroy them pretty much immediately. In order to get on the street from the other side, it was a good 10-15 minute drive. I figured I'd have missed it by then. Turns out I would have had just about enough time, actually.
Scott, firefighters did end up taping off the area. The tape went from one end of the drive way to the other - so no one could drive down the driveway. That was it - less than 10 yards of tape... |
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Yamil Sued, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Peoria | AZ | USA | Posted: 11:13 AM on 06.24.09 |
->> OK,
Here's my opinion!!
I'm not a Hard News Photographer, nor do I want to become one, but.......
Bomb scenes??? I want to run the other way, there's not a single shot worth getting blown up for!!
Crime scenes???
Remember the OJ Simpson case???
In the haste of Crime scene folks to protect the scene and prevent the media from showing vital parts of the scene to the genera public, the Crime scene guys totally contaminated the scene. Both sides were at fault here. In most cases, the media should have be kept away from the scene, any scene if a successful prosecution the goal!! There's things on a crime scene that are kept away from the media. I think the media should be a little helpful here!! The media in some instances becomes a problem in a crime scene and the publish info that would hurt the prosecution of a crime, then when the prosecution fails, they blame Law Enforcement for their ineptitude, when the media itself helped to derail the prosecution!!
A little cooperation on both sides will help everyone in the end!!
BTW, I know a bunch of guys at CPD, I lived there for 4-1/2 years, they guys I met were great and very helpful!!
Y |
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Andrew Worrall, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Columbia | M0 | | Posted: 12:02 PM on 06.24.09 |
->> Yamil,
I'm glad you thought CPD was helpful...I wish that was still the case. They actually just appointed a new position - PIO - yet that person is extremely hard to get a hold of and doesn't return calls any faster than a Sgt.
I will also add an interesting point: the homeowner who called police was eager to tell everything...she said she found 4 soda bottle bombs the night before, and 3 detonated by themselves. She waited until morning to call it in because she "didn't know what the police would be able to do so late at night." |
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Bob Ford, Photographer
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Lehighton | Pa | USA | Posted: 12:40 PM on 06.24.09 |
->> Andrew, I saw the funpix of you at the scene, http://www.sportsshooter.com/funpix_view.html?id=8809 , and have a question.
What at the blue light on your dash and the LEDs near your rearview mirror for? I know the laws vary from State-to-State, but in Pennsylvania only volunteer firefighters can have blue lights, and they are legally only allowed to have ONE. |
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Scott Serio, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Colora | MD | USA | Posted: 12:50 PM on 06.24.09 |
->> I will echo Chuck on the secret handshake thing. I don't do news anymore...well, can't. I do sports photography. I do live news every day. Because of all of the times police have been burned (many times rightly so) they are wary of the media to the point they are so afraid of bad news, the good news doesn't get out as well.
Many who knew me at Mizzou knew I loved spot news. Current EPA shooter/editor Matt Campbell and I had such a good relationship with the Missouri Highway Patrol that they would call us when they had good stuff. I doubt seriously they would do that now. There was also the matter of almost accidentally burning down a frat house with fireworks, where having done some ridealongs with the responding officers paid off, but that is a different story.
For access now, all I can suggest is building a relationship with them. Pray you don't get the moron "King of the Crime Scene" when you arrive. And work on some good rap to make the cops feel sorry for you. If they think you are having a more miserable day than they are (Matt has the right idea), you will have a better chance. The second it gets adversarial, you are done.
Hope this helps. |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 1:15 PM on 06.24.09 |
| ->> Wow. (In reference to the fun pix) If you had one of those in our state you would be in cuffs in the BACK of a squad car. You aren't allowed by law to "act" like you're an emergency vehicle. Using your emergency flashers are about as far as you can go in NC. |
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Scott Serio, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Colora | MD | USA | Posted: 2:11 PM on 06.24.09 |
->> Re: FUNPIX
I lived in Columbia. I am fairly sure you have to go to a "blue light school" through Boone County Fire to have one. Missouri is a red for police state. Not sure, but that could be way illegal if you haven't been through the school. |
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Eric Canha, Photographer
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Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 2:31 PM on 06.24.09 |
->> Chuck when I was a photo student in Mass I was also a call fire fighter. The RMV had a red light permit application that the chief signed off on. The state then issued a permit that allowed us to mount and display beacons.
Many if not most of the call members had complete light bars mounted on personal trucks. The only policy that the chief had was no sirens. Two towns over the guys in Dartmouth ran with light AND sirens. And a ways up the road EMS was part of the call department and you'd be hard pressed to know that the car flying down the street was a the private vehicle of an EMT and not a town owned vehicle. It was all legal in the state at the time, and probably still is.
The REALLY interesting part comes when somebody would cross to RI or CT. The cops there run REDs one of the guys going to the casino was pulled over and had to cover the domes with.... wait for it.......... his socks. |
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