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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Huge Corporate Gig - offer rebate?
Bastian Ehl, Photographer
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Magdeburg | _ | Germany | Posted: 4:25 PM on 06.17.09 |
->> Here's the deal:
Construction company wants reference pictures for PR use.
Around 30 different buildings (interior and exterior) all around Europe.
Big assignment. I figured out a rate, but I'm struggling wether to include a rebate or not. It's nearly two months of work in a row.
Any ideas? |
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Ric Tapia, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 4:47 PM on 06.17.09 |
| ->> A Rebate? for What? |
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Manuello Paganelli, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 5:12 PM on 06.17.09 |
->> For one job or a few jobs NO. But for almost 60 days of work YES. ONLY IF THEY ASK.
How about this, "Hey Sabine my regular fees for a similar project is €1,300 per day but since I will be working close to two months for your company I will let my creative fees be €1,100 per day.
Bastian, make sure to ad travel time. Usually half of your regular fees. YOu can also cut her a deal on this.
But let me ask you this "..I'm struggling wether to include a rebate or not" is this something you want to do while tying to be nice or this person is asking for a cut?
IF nobody from that company has a problem with your regular fees then dont give them any rebate. Let them come to you first.
Also ask for half your fees and expenses upfront. Dont wait till the end.
Schuss
More 2 Come
www.ManuelloPaganelli.com |
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Ric Tapia, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 6:33 PM on 06.17.09 |
->> Manuello,
Perfect Answer, I wanted Bastian to tell us why he is thinking of giving a discount. |
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Bastian Ehl, Photographer
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Magdeburg | _ | Germany | Posted: 7:15 PM on 06.17.09 |
->> The reason why I was thinking about a rebate is the amount of continious work created. It's like a short term working contract. At least that's how it feels.
I might have a slightly different perspective, since doing business in Europe and the US differs in some points. Still I can totally understand your advice. |
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Sandy Huffaker, Photographer
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San Diego | CA | USA | Posted: 8:00 PM on 06.17.09 |
->> Bastian,
You can also work in certain usage rights that will make it seem like a good deal to them. There are some creative ways to charge them the same but make it look like they are getting a deal. Cut your day rate but maybe add in these usage rights to make up the difference. Maybe say I'll cut the day rate from 1300.00 to 900.00 but add in 400.00 for worldwide unlimited usage rights. You can also make up the difference with processing fees. I've also thrown in some travel expenses if it's an extended job and have a good working relationship with the client. Whatever works best for you. Sometimes if you overcharge you risk losing the client for the next job so it's nice to throw in a few freebies just to let them know you are sensitive to their budget. |
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Mike Huffstatler, Photographer, Assistant
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Rancho Cucamonga | Ca | United States | Posted: 8:39 PM on 06.17.09 |
->> Maybe it is a perspective thing. But if the negotiation has gone smooth and both parties feel like an equitable agreement was made, I'm not sure I understand the desire to offer a rebate. If this was a project that was solicited to others I'm usre that quality of work, reputation and price were all considered in a selection of a photographer.
This might sound odd to some, but I think it's often a real issue: don't be afraid to charge for your work at a rate the market will bear. It might equate to levels you are not used to seeing, or it might be new territory for you. (I'm not saying this is the case for you...I have no idea) But it's often easier to offer something for a lower price than it is to hold strong to the value we think we deserve. I'm guilty of this far too often, and I know others that are as well. In the Information technologies business, contract work is very common. It's also very common to pay these short-term people a very good rate. In the end it is still far less expensive to the company than hiring someone to do the job. There are far fewer liabilities as well.
If this client is starting to push back a bit regarding the prices, employ a discount strategy only if you feel you have room to bend. But do it in a way that still shows the full price and add a line item discount so they clearly see what they would normally pay. This should also be give and take. you give them a discount, but in return you get something. Maybe the discount only applys to net-20 or 30 terms. If they pay quick, you discount. If they do not, the discount goes away.
I hope this helps in some small way. |
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Manuello Paganelli, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 9:28 PM on 06.17.09 |
->> BAstian dude you are shooting yourself on the foot right before you press the shutter.
Sounds that you are the one wanting to give them a discount. Like I said before, unless it comes to that, DONT DO IT UNTIL THEY ASK YOU.
Only a huge company which deep pockets can afford this endeavor. Yet yo are trying to charge them less already?
Also SAndy, you want him to lower his fees and also give them free world wide range for a pitiful rates of an extra $400?? ONe freeby atop another huge freeby? IF they want European rights is one thing, but WW rights should be A LOT MORE than just $400. If he charges only $900 is almost like getting a magazine fees... This is a big company and a commercial project. So dont even think of giving them WWRights for only $400 more per day.
For the most part when I do the negotiating I want them to know that they are getting a good deal just by hiring me. And that with my talent/expertise their revenues will increase. I want them to know mainly this and to remember me and never because I am getting them 10 or 20%.
Otherwise is the wrong way of doing biz and doesnt add up. This is an adv campaign and obviously they call Bastian based on his talent. These folks are professionals and they want the very best of us too.
Now Bastian shape up and charge what is proper but FIRST you need to start thinking the right way.
In fact the fees that I quote you, around €1,300 which is around $2,000, were just a number but it could be a lot more than that. Check with other photographers in Germany/Europe and find out what they usually charge. Do more research. YOu should be doing that with your advertising photographers peers in Europe instead of coming to sportsshooter. Or visit the USA APA forum.
I dont care if is in Europe, North or South America or Asia, but if you wanna buy a Mercedes is still a costly car and based on that your perspective gotta be better than the way you see it here.
Like Mike wrote "this should be a give and take.." ONly thing is that right now you want to give for not reason at all.
Again your approach is the WRONG way of doing business.
More 2 Come
www.ManuelloPaganelli.com |
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Sandy Huffaker, Photographer
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San Diego | CA | USA | Posted: 10:49 PM on 06.17.09 |
->> Manuello,
In a perfect world your statement makes very good sense. You are also correct in saying don't give a discount until they ask. I always wait for them to ask, but I will also do some things above and beyond what's in the contract like put in extra time and maybe throwing in a travel expense or something just to give me a leg up on the competition and to secure the client. In this crappy economy, it seems to me clients almost expect it. I think most will agree the rules have seemed to change a bit.
The example I gave was just throwing out some #'s. I'm saying you can get creative when making-up a bid where it doesn't look like you're charging an exorbitant day rate. Pump up the process fee, the rights and maybe lower the day rate so it doesn't freak them out. |
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Bastian Ehl, Photographer
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Magdeburg | _ | Germany | Posted: 1:28 PM on 07.08.09 |
->> Thanks for all the input. Here's out it turned out:
I didn't get the job. They took a photographer who is shooting the whole gig for 10.000 all-in (usage, production, post-production, travel).
Travel costs alone are around 7.000 for this job (milage, flights, hotels, but no travel day rates).
I think they won't get far with this. The company rep even told me (quote):I don't get how he will make any money from it, still he got the job. |
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Nick Morris, Photographer
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San Marcos | CA | United States | Posted: 1:53 PM on 07.08.09 |
| ->> Looks like Craigslist strikes again! |
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