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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Debra L. Rothenberg, Bank Info and Dealing with Clients
Manuello Paganelli, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 10:27 PM on 06.16.09 |
->> Folks I want to say a few things that I hope will benefit some of you in the future and this is to follow up a recent usage of an image © Debra L. Rothenberg.. “I received an email from a reputable paper in the UK asking me to send them my bank info for payment of a photo of mine from 3 years ago that they just used...”
http://www.sportsshooter.com/message_display.html?tid=33344
I personally licensed an image for over $1,000. The photo was taken around 1991. Old, new, future photos do have value.
My client first offer was a pitiful $350. Instead I asked for $1,000 knowing that if they are calling, then after all these years NOBODY had a better shot or maybe this person hardly poses for any photos. Or maybe maybe... Who cares they are calling me and want the image.
It doesn't matter if your photo was taken 3 or 50 yrs ago. What is important is that they are using it again.
Most folks in the industry are honest and will pay for the licensing fees and contact you if your work has been credited properly and you left some tracks.
Most of the time the problem lies with us who either give our rights away or let someone else walk over us or simple the photographer doesn’t know a damn thing about running his/her business. And trust me you are NOT ALONE… They are some great established shooters out there who still don’t know much about negotiating. Or even stand up and fight for what is right. Just too damn afraid to rock the boat.
That is why a large percentage of folks out there know more than us when it comes to the VALUE OF OUR WORK. SHAMEFUL!
A couple months ago I did a magazine cover and now this company wants to use it for an adv campaign. With the print ad, the web and collateral usages, the negotiating keeps circulating from 20-27K for a 3 yrs usage.
So yes A PHOTO USE IS A PHOTO PAY FOR and you benefit even more when you are savvy and able to negotiate the value of your work.
When a client phones you or send you an email ask yourself these simple questions?
1. Who is the person?
2. When was taken?
3. How unique this image is and HOW DIFFICULT it will be to reshoot this person again? But honestly folks even that doesn't matter. The image could be a piece of crap but it could be THE ONLY IMAGE out there.
4. If this person could be photograph again how much it will be to do it? your fees, assistants, mileage, plane, travel time, rental equipment, props, hotel, meals, setting up.. CA$HING CA$HING..
4. Why is this individual VIP at this moment?
When your phone rings, then find out right away who is the client. And if you do get an email then phone the paper/magazine/CO directly to make sure that they indeed work for the Guardian/NYTimes/S.I.
Folks..Deborah.. I would also find out TODAY how he/she got hold of your image? Then contact the point person and make it clear that in the future BEFORE any of your image is use they need to contact you and negotiated. EVEN NOW you can find out how your image was use in the paper and still negotiated a fair usage. Did the image ran on the Monday edition or Sunday? Front page or D12? and how large?
You may get a check for $100 or $200 when in fact it should have been for $400, $800 or even more.. Lots of money left at the table..SERIOUSLY.
So don’t settle for what they just sent you or will send you. Tell them how much you charge for such a licensing. Don’t let them dictate how you run your business. Is all about how you deal with them. You are the pilot and in control.
Do we go to a 5 stars restaurant and eat the meal and drink the wine then tell the chef that we’ll write a check for $10 or $20 bucks?
Don't let a silly co-pilot take over you. Specially a co-pilot who is a voice or an email miles away.
So why settle for less when it could have been A LOT MORE!
More 2 Come
Pag
www.ManuelloPaganelli.com |
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Debra L Rothenberg, Photographer
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New York | NY | USA | Posted: 11:55 PM on 06.16.09 |
->> Manuello,
I appreciate what you wrote but would appreciate it more if you email me privately with certain things before you post things here that I feel are out of line and not completely in the know. Perhaps I misinterpreted things you wrote. I think I handle my business AND my clients VERY well. It was more than 12 hours since my last post this morning until I just got finished with today's work and what you posted and A LOT of information was discovered that I didn't remember. Perhaps I should have rushed to have posted an update on this but I had more important things to take care of . First-I never thought there would come a day when I didn't remember shooting something, but I can't even remember what I shot yesterday. Turns out the shot in question was an assignment from years ago-a concert I was paid to shoot. This payment is for them re-using it. I know what newspapers pay as I am sure most of us here do.
That being said, when I am not sure of something I do ask-I know I am not a know it all in this business or in this life. And because I ask, 25 of my images have just been licensed for usage in a book due out later this year that I am very pleased with.
DLR |
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Manuello Paganelli, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 12:55 AM on 06.17.09 |
->> Debra all due respect but my comments was not aim totally at you at all so dont take it at heart :) YOu were the lead and the questioner.. It was advice for anybody who maybe in that situation now or in the future. Most of the things I wrote had nothing to do with you and one thing lead me to write something else.
I think that you totally missed my point. I trust that what I wrote comes handy 4 someone else in future sales and they can have the tools to make better deals.
Nothing was written to take it out of line. Some was based on the information that you wrote. Which basically was, shot this long time ago and almot forgot, who is this client, glad they paid me etc.
There is nothing wrong with any of that. I had taken plenty of shoots and I cant remember I shot it either. But if they call me for a reuse then I welcome that but would never settle for any price formula that any paper may have since each time is different.
Congrats on licensing those images for the book.
More 2 Come
Pag
www.ManuelloPaganelli.com |
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Robert Catto, Photographer
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Wellington | NZ | New Zealand | Posted: 4:08 AM on 06.17.09 |
->> Good post, Manuello -
My feeling is, images that have been around longer waiting for the use to come (whatever it may be, and whoever it may be - person, place or thing) are OBVIOUSLY worth at least as much as current ones, as I've spent so long and so much $$ housing them on hard drives / CDs / DVDs / whatever, updating the storage as new technologies came along, etc etc etc - and will continue to do so for the rest of my life plus 50 years.
That's completely aside from anything I spent getting to where I needed to be, with the equipment I needed at the time, to create the image in the first place - which is in turn completely aside from what equipment I'm using now, and what I'm saving to acquire when this wears out / needs updating.
How long will it be, before this image NEXT starts to recoup my investment in its survival? Right, well, I'd better make sure the license fee covers some of that time & storage technology, too...data is cheap, but it ain't free!
R |
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Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
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San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 3:01 PM on 06.17.09 |
->> My take was that Manuello's post was meant for everybody who encounters such situations. Debra's posting was just a recent example of a client who published first and asked questions later.
--Mark |
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Manuello Paganelli, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 5:55 PM on 06.17.09 |
->> Catto there is not crystal ball to tell you when any created images will make money. IF that was the case we all would be laughing all the way to the bank.
We are at the mercy of talent, time, client, connection and pure luck. Just think of Picasso and then Van Gogh.
Is like acting or singing. How many of those folks will really be successful? Sadly photography, when it comes to anybody making it, runs parallel to those fields too.
And always remember that all images have value. Some more some less and it has nothing to do with how old or new an image is. Unless we are talking about fine arts then, like an old red wine, older is always best.
So keep archiving & protecting those images until the end of time :)
More 2 come
www.ManuelloPaganelli.com |
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