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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
NBA or NHL Playoff Passes
David Dermer, Photographer
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Cortland | Oh | 44410 | Posted: 11:56 PM on 05.21.09 |
->> I am a freelance photographer for a newspaper around Warren Ohio, and I am trying to get a photo pass to either the Cleveland Cavs or the Pittsburgh Penguins.
If anyone knows a way to get a legit pass to a game please let me know, it would help my career so much. |
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Robert Hanashiro, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | | Posted: 12:12 AM on 05.22.09 |
->> When you get this far into the playoffs --- the finals and conference finals --- credentials and space are very tight.
If you have not been regularly covering one of the teams in these playoffs, you do not stand much of a chance in obtaining a credential.
You certainly could try ... the NBA Conference Finals credentials are handled by the team, so call the Cavs' media relation department directly. I am not 100% certain on the Stanley Cup Finals, but I would hazard a guess that the NHL handles credentialing. But call the team anyway to check.
Also note that you are very late in requesting credentials for these events.
And ... as a freelance photographer, unless you have been assigned specifically to cover these events, you have zero chance in getting a credential. |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 12:43 AM on 05.22.09 |
| ->> Wow! Just WOW! |
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Andrew Fredrickson, Photographer
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Seattle | WA | United States | Posted: 1:35 AM on 05.22.09 |
| ->> Your paper should be setting up the media credential for you. Your best bet is to contact your paper, ask if they need photos from either event, if they do, they'll need to contact the media department of the teams and try to get that set up. Teams get irritated dealing with freelance photographers trying to gain unneeded access, it needs to be from your paper / organization. |
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Adrian Gauthier, Photographer
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Mississauga | ON | Canada | Posted: 2:29 AM on 05.22.09 |
->> Good luck...
The NBA and NHL are among the hardest credentials to receive, even while working with recognized media outlets -- even for the regular season. |
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Thomas E. Witte, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Cincinnati | OH | USA | Posted: 4:52 AM on 05.22.09 |
| ->> How will it help your career? |
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David Eulitt, Photographer
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Kansas City | MO | USA | Posted: 9:01 AM on 05.22.09 |
| ->> I'd be happy with just a parking pass. |
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Kevin Leas, Photographer, Assistant
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Rochester | NY | USA | Posted: 9:47 AM on 05.22.09 |
->> I can't speak for the NBA or NHL, but the newspaper I worked at was situated near a smaller market NFL team with little media interest, yet even our staffers were frequently denied credentials for even regular season games.
Good luck. |
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David Manning, Photographer
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Athens | GA | | Posted: 9:53 AM on 05.22.09 |
->> Stuff like this reminds me of Rod Mar's seminar at Atlanta Photojournalism this past year: Be Big where you are.
The bigger events that I've covered always seem to be more stressful just due to the sheer numbers of other photographers and press that are there. The people in charge seem more uptight and restrictive during these events. Toes get stepped on, feelings get bent and deadspin-worthy media-meltdowns happen.
I'm encouraged by "Happy to be there" guy's enthusiasm but IMO a large, media-intensive event is not the right place for on-the-job training.
My advice to the OP is that if you are true about learning the craft of sports photojournalism, start smaller and hewn your craft so that you're ready once it comes time for the big stage.
Just my $.11 cents. |
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Michael Proebsting, Photographer
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Barrington | IL | USA | Posted: 9:55 AM on 05.22.09 |
| ->> Get a assignment, (no make that charity event) with USPresswire. |
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Alex Menendez, Photographer
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Orlando | FL | USA | Posted: 10:21 AM on 05.22.09 |
->> Hey David,
Welcome to the SS message board!!!
I see on your member page that you are new here and very young.
I know that it is "most" photographers ambition to shoot the big league games and to be honest it normally takes years of pro shooting to even be considered "worthy" of shooting an event of such magnitude.
You put your foot in the lions mouth by jumping in with such a request, I would offer this advice. Sit back, listen closely and read these threads very slowly before jumping in or be prepared to get blasted by other photographers that live their lives on these boards.
There are some great people here with worthy advice, but just like anything else, there are some who you shouldn't listen to.
This site is a great tool for learning the business and I would encourage you to pay your dues and if you are a good shooter, you may eventually reach your goals.
Good luck
Alex Menendez |
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Brian Blanco, Photographer
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Tampa / Sarasota | FL | USA | Posted: 11:33 AM on 05.22.09 |
->> David,
Alex is right. You’ve certainly stuck your head in the lion’s mouth and, like Alex, I encourage you to keep an open mind and be thick-skinned when reading the posts that will likely fill this thread.
You asked for advice about getting a ‘pass’ (we generally call it a ‘credential’) to shoot NBA and/or NHL events. Well, the short answer is the one you may not like: You have to work hard and sharpen your skills at the local level first. This will likely take years and so, I’m sorry to say, you’ll likely miss this season. That’s o.k.; you’re only 20 years old and most of us wish we were in your position.
If you really want to get into the “Big Show” then start today – right now. Find out if there’s a high school game, of any kind, and go shoot it. High school access is generally pretty easy to get. (Don’t sneak in – ask permission and explain why you want to shoot the game) Shoot as much high school, little league, Pop Warner type sporting events you can get to and really work on sharpening your skill. Also, shoot a lot of different sports because this will make you a well-rounded shooter.
Post your work here and find shooters on this site whose work you admire and email them and ask for a critique. Then listen, really listen, to the advice you get and then head back out the next day and work on whatever they told you could be improved upon.
Do this over and over again until, before you know it, you’re shooting the type of images that really sing and tell the story of the game. Don’t settle for being “as good” as anybody on this site – strive to shoot “better” than any of us. Strive to find a new way of shooting the games you cover and you’ll be very marketable. Also strive to shoot consistently so that editors know that they can rely on you to come back, every time, from an event with a photo that is not only publishable, but one that really pops.
Also, another thing you can do right now, today, is to work on your cutlines and fix the grammar on your member page.
If you make a commitment to do the above things then eventually we’ll all see you on the sidelines of the "big show".
Best of luck,
-Blanco |
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George Bridges, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Washington | DC | USA | Posted: 12:00 PM on 05.22.09 |
->> David,
If you've read this far I'm impressed.
Alex and Brian have good advice but you really didn't need to read past Bert's post and this line:
"If you have not been regularly covering one of the teams in these playoffs, you do not stand much of a chance in obtaining a credential."
That's all there is to it. If your paper hasn't photographed the team regularly during the season you won't be getting into the playoffs when interest is higher.
Next season if you want to cover the teams, start by contacting the press office before the season starts and maybe show your face during preseason and training camps to let them know you are interested. Then, show up regularly for games, don't be a pain in the rear to them and you'll be good when the playoffs roll around and future seasons. |
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Michael McNamara, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Phoenix | AZ | USA | Posted: 12:15 PM on 05.22.09 |
->> David,
It's easy to think that photographing the biggest events will yield the best photos, but I've found it's usually the other way around. I've been to my fair share of big sporting events both as a shooter and as an editor, and what I liked most from them was the time I spent with my friends. I don't remember many of the pictures.
Just for fun, go over to http://www.poyi.org and look through the winners galleries. You're not going to see a lot of photos from events that had a lot of photographers roaming the sidelines.
There was a thread last month where people were discussing where to position yourself for shooting baseball, and Brad Mangin (somebody who was hired by Neil Leifer at The National based on his portfolio of amateur sports) used a good quote:
"Look for where all the other photographers are- and go someplace else." |
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Jeff Mills, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Columbus | OH | USA | Posted: 12:16 PM on 05.22.09 |
->> David, the best advice I can give you is to present yourself as someone who simply has a passion for photography and creating great images regardless of the assignment.
It says on your member page, "My dream is to be at an NFL game every sunday on the sidelines taking pictures". Thats a fine dream but you've got to realize that makes it sound like your more intrested about simply being on the sidelines at a NFL game (or NBA/NHL playoff) than you are about being a photographer and thats why people might not take you seriously, no matter your age.
At my paper I get lots of intrested young applicants contacting me every week looking for a foot in the door. They all think its going to get them down on the field at an Ohio State football game but then when I offer them the chance to shoot a women's field hockey game they are no longer intrested.
I have no desire to give work to a photographer like that. Myself, and any other photo editor I'm sure, wants someone who they can send to any assignment, no matter how "boring" it may be and still have that person create some great images because its what they have a passion for doing.
Thats whats going to impress me and intrest me in giving you an oppurtunity. I've shot Lebron James and I've seen a million photos of Lebron James. All a photo of Lebron is going to say to me is here is someone who thinks simply because they have a photo of an MVP I'm going to be impressed and thats not the case.
Rather whats going to really "wow" me is seeing photos from something like a girls D3 basetball game captured in an exciting and compelling manner because while its not the NBA finals, to those athletes and their fans, its just as big of moment to them if not more so.
Its a tough industry for everyone right now and there are guys who have shot more years of NBA finals than you've been alive who have been recently laid off and are looking for work. I say this with no disrespect to you, but the simple reality is that if theres a publication that needs someone to shoot the NBA or NHL playoffs, they are not going to send a 20 year old new photographer.
As I said, its a great dream to have, and its a dream a majority of the members on this site share, but your going to end up disapointed and not going very far in this industry if your only trying to shoot what you love, rather than learning to love whatever you shoot.
Those are the photographers who are really "living the dream" as the saying goes. |
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Brian Westerholt, Photographer
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Kannapolis | NC | USA | Posted: 12:37 PM on 05.22.09 |
| ->> Well said Jeff! |
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Mark J. Terrill, Photographer
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Simi Valley | CA | USA | Posted: 4:34 PM on 05.22.09 |
->> David,
I shoot major sports everyday. I'm not going to lie to you, it's a lot of fun, but the truth is that college sports is much better for pictures. They're more willing to sacrifice themselves than the pros which means more pictures of people diving for balls and such.
Best of luck. |
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William Maner, Photographer
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Biloxi | MS | USA | Posted: 5:52 PM on 05.22.09 |
->> David,
There's lots of great advice given by others on the topic of credentials for major sporting events.
It's been almost 40 years since I shot my first major college game.. I was 15 at the time.. I always thought it would be cool to do pro sports, but the opportunities were very limited as I lived in an area where there was only one professional sports franchise within three hundred miles.
I went the college route.. I've been able to do a lot of stuff over the years. I've had just as much fun covering a variety of college sports, as well as high school sports over the years.
The only work I've done involving pro sports was some baseball spring training stuff for my local paper. I shot a lot of photos of players--majors and minors--who were from my hometown area. It was a very relaxed atmosphere. If anything, I gained a greater appreciation of the work that the "big boys" do with their photos.
It's great to have confidence, but you have to temper it a bit with the way things work. You have to develop connections with people and make yourself known. It takes time, but it's well worth the effort in the long run. |
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John H. Reid III, Photographer
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Gates Mills | OH | USA | Posted: 11:03 PM on 05.22.09 |
->> David,
I'm going to strongly agree with Mark Terrill. I've been quite fortunate in being able to photograph lots of NFL games. I also photograph a lot of D III college games. I get many, many more photos of players flying through the air, upside down, etc. at the D III games. Mark is right, they are willing to sacrifice themselves by throwing their bodies around much more. I once discussed with an NFL coach how I got many more photos of players in the air at a D III game, and he told me that as non-scholarship athletes, if they got hurt it meant they went to class on crutches the next week. No lost scholarship, no pro-career aspirations dashed.
So, two things. 1. Players flying through the air, upside down, etc. = interesting photos = good portfolio photos = people being interested in your photos = more work. 2. Why would someone who is able to shoot the NFL still shoot D III? Fist, they pay me. Then there are the picture opportunities.
I looked up Cortland on the map (my Ohio geography isn't all that good!) and I see you are relatively close to Mount Union. They are one of the top D III programs in the nation for football. See if your paper would be interested in coverage and start there.
Good luck. Feel free to contact me with any questions. |
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Michael Proebsting, Photographer
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Barrington | IL | USA | Posted: 11:43 PM on 05.22.09 |
->> "INAPPROPRIATE"
Should be used only when something truly offensive has been said. Something rude, racist, or blatantly disrespectful. This is NOT used to disagree with a person's opinion. To disagree with an opinion you would POST YOUR OPINION as a message. This rating should be hardly ever used, since we can count on one hand how many times in the past year that it could have been used.
For the three people who marked my above post with the dreaded "inappropriate" please enlighten me with what exactly was "truly offensive, rude, racist or blatantly disrespectful." |
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Thomas E. Witte, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Cincinnati | OH | USA | Posted: 2:07 PM on 05.23.09 |
| ->> Following Michael, to the two folks who gave me a "huh" above, I'll gladly elaborate but it's going to come out sounding extremely condescending. If you'd like an explanation, email me privately and use a fake name if you like, just make sure the reply email works. |
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Michael Fischer, Photographer
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Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 4:45 PM on 05.23.09 |
->> What do I do? I try to make pretty pictures each and every time. There's some good advice here that others have posted... VERY good advice.
David, I have shot the NFL for about 10 years total. Most of my shooting is HS now a days because of where I live. I worked just as hard at the HS stuff as I did shooting the NFL. Was the NFL fun? You bet. But so is HS.
Shooting the NFL, NHL or NBA won't make you a better photographer. Mastering your craft at whatever level it is will be the most important thing. I quit shooting the NFL 3 years ago when I couldn't make enough money doing it - too many people willing to shoot it for free. I didn't care. It doesn't do anything to validate one's skill as a photographer. I just went out and worked just as hard, if not harder, on other assignments.
Your job is to make compelling images that tell the story each and every time. When you shoot the local high school graduation like I did last week for the umteenth time, or the track meet or whatever, and bring back good, story telling images, then maybe you can worry about the NFL or NBA or NHL.
But by then, it won't matter near as much. Why? Because by then you'll know it's one more opportunity to make images that tell the story. There are no short cuts. Go do the work to learn. If you do, you 'll get where you need to be.
Good luck
Michael |
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Louis Lopez, Photographer
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Fontana | CA | USA | Posted: 12:06 AM on 05.26.09 |
->> Michael Proebsting,
I was one those that marked your post innappropriate. In my opinion it was just rude of you to just feel the need to inject USPresswire into this thread, just uncalled for, regardless of your personal feeling about there company or practices. It adde nothing to the thread.
kind of like walking down the street and seeing a dog sleeping on a lawn and you walk over and kick it for no reason, then walk away. I know your on my not so nice list. |
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Darren Carroll, Photographer
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Cedar Creek (Austin) | TX | USA | Posted: 1:26 AM on 05.26.09 |
->> Mr. Lopez,
While I admire your willingness to come forth as one of those who marked Mr. Proebsting's post as inappropriate, I still fail to see how it rose to the level of being "truly offensive, rude, racist or blatantly disrespectful"--your rationalization notwithstanding.
In fact, it adds much to the thread, insofar as there are plenty of organizations out there which pass themselves off as "agencies" or "wire services" who seek out exactly the kind of young, and dare I say gullible, photographer as the OP, who prey on people who are so intent on getting credentials to the "big game," so convinced that being on the sidelines of a major sporting event will "help [their] career so much," that they are willing to accept any terms for a credential, no matter how unfair, and no matter what the effect of their so doing is on the cumulative, overall health of our industry.
IMHO, on a site like this, anything we can do to disabuse them of this notion, whether it's through the use of sarcastic, cutting, yet truthful one-line wit as Mr. Proebsting's post above, or a long-winded, overblown, bloviating missive such as one which I penned for last month's SportsShooter newsletter ( http://www.sportsshooter.com/news_story.html?id=2210 ) are entirely appropriate.
That is, unless one happens to be someone affiliated not necessarily with the "agency" in question, but perhaps with an enterprise of similar repute, business practices, and overall effect on the industry...in which case I can easily see why one would find it rude, offensive and/or disrespectful.
I guess it all depends on one's perspective. |
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Louis Lopez, Photographer
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Fontana | CA | USA | Posted: 2:48 AM on 05.26.09 |
->> Mr. Carroll,
One does not have to be of a particular group or race even remotely affiliated with whatever the particular in question item is to find something rude or offensive.
It was my opinion that his comment was rude regardless of my race, creed, color, national origin, sex, affiliation, or beliefs.
The wonderful part of living in a free democratic society is being able to have the freedom to express our opinions.
Just as Mr. Proebsting had the right to post that sarcastic one liner, I posted my thoughts, your rationalization notwithstanding. |
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Michael Proebsting, Photographer
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Barrington | IL | USA | Posted: 9:31 AM on 05.26.09 |
->> Sorry Louis, sometimes the truth hurts plain and simple.
The fact is that organizations that used to pay photographers an assignment fee no longer due so because the likes of a USPresswire have contacted them, and given away images for a period of time, or drastically cut pricing to a ridiculous level.
Actually, what you should consider "inappropriate" is the terms that you are willing to work for by dealing with Presswire. |
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Scott Strazzante, Photographer
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Chicago | IL | USA | Posted: 9:32 AM on 05.26.09 |
->> David, I totally understand your desire to shoot pro sports especially high profile events like the NBA playoffs and the Stanley Cup.
But if you can't get a credential why don't you go at this from a different angle.
Shoot the environment. The fanatics. The craziness that envelops a city and fan base when their team makes it to the championship round.
Go to Cleveland or Pittsburgh. Hang out in some working class bars during a game. Find the team's craziest fan outside the arena before a game and ask if you could follow them through their day before and after the next home game.
Document the scene around the arena as a big event is going on inside.
Doing something different will get your work noticed faster than trying to replicate the work of others. |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 9:44 AM on 05.26.09 |
->> I again know this is probably not going to happen but whoever gave Darren an inappropriate should maybe consider quitting sportsshooter, plain and simple. There was nothing wrong in his post with his explanation or his rationale. It seems that he got the IA simply because he disagreed with another post and actually made a logical argument for doing so. It has been no secret on SS that many of us who complain about people who work for free or credentials so they can watch....ooopps....I mean "work" a high profile event get "inappropriate" for having that opinion.
I also have to ask..
"It was my opinion that his comment was rude regardless of my race, creed, color, national origin, sex, affiliation, or beliefs.
The wonderful part of living in a free democratic society is being able to have the freedom to express our opinions."
Louis, where did ANY of that come into question? Inquiring minds wanna know.
Are you now calling Darren a racist? I saw NO mention of your
"race, creed, color, national origin, sex, affiliation, or beliefs" in his statement. |
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Michael Proebsting, Photographer
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Barrington | IL | USA | Posted: 10:20 AM on 05.26.09 |
->> Louis,
If I start a company, (let's call it USWeddingwire), would you be willing to purchase and maintain your camera and computer equipment, pay for you own health insurance, incur travel expense, photograph, caption, edit, and submit images to me without any guarantee whatsoever from the bride and groom that the images will be purchased so we can do a 50/50 split?
Sounds crazy right?
Well this is the exact same business model as Presswire. Before you come back and say but wait there are so many "potential" clients that Presswire can market to the fact is I know many photographers who have covered many events for Presswire and received a grand total of zero and as a total averaged far less per game than if I paid them to shoot little league games for me. |
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Eric Canha, Photographer
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Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 10:41 AM on 05.26.09 |
->> Michael seeing as I'm the king of the analogy (my yearbook says so!)
What if I were to open a business where I allowed you to come in anytime you wanted 24/7. Free booz and scantily clad young women to bring it to you. All you have to do is continue to play a simple game of 21. Or for $1000 I would let you buy in to a business proposition that MIGHT allow you to earn several million dollars based on your skill, mathematical abilities, and a wee bit of luck. Those that are good and make a living doing it are 'professionals' those that aren't are 'addicts'.
Crazy is a relative term. So is work.
BTW for full disclosure, I've never worked for one of 'the' wires or companies that are now the subject of this thread, but at the same time believe that they have their place at the table too. |
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Louis Lopez, Photographer
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Fontana | CA | USA | Posted: 11:29 AM on 05.26.09 |
->> Chuck,
Mr. Carroll is suggesting that the reason I feel it is rude is because I may or may not be associated or affiliated with the group or a similar group. I am pointing out that one does not have to be part of a group to be offended when another takes, in my opnion a cheap shot at them.
Rather than a sarcastic one liner, a post like Mr. Carroll's would have been more appropriate. |
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Michael Proebsting, Photographer
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Barrington | IL | USA | Posted: 11:43 AM on 05.26.09 |
->> Eric,
How does the casino reference have anything to do with a photography business model?
My point is what kind of legit business model has someone "create" the product, at their own time and expense with zero compensation let alone reimbursement for expenses related to creating this product for the "chance" to make a 50/50 split on what far more times than not the end result is zero.
And what "place at the table" do these wires have have?
So far, this type of business model has chewed up and spit out rookie and experienced photographers that fell for it, and taken established industry standard pricing and tossed it into the garbage. |
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Eric Canha, Photographer
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Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 2:31 PM on 05.26.09 |
->> Micheal I'm not going to get knee deep in this. Just isn't going to happen as it really doesn't have any weight on what I do. So I'll try to clear my post up for you and leave it at that.
Working for one of the wires or services that you are finding offensive is at best A GAMBLE. There are people who make their entire living (or a good chunk of it) gambling. They pay there own way from one tournament to the next. The great ones we see on TV the not so great ones we never hear of and suffer the fate of most broken gamblers. Same for the 'wires', the great shooters we know by name the not so great ones.... not so much.
And what "place at the table" do these wires have have? If they aren't breaking any laws, I'd say they have the same rights that you and I have to negotiate carry out ANY business as we see fit.
And finally for your last comment. They didn't do it alone. The publishers were (are) all too happy to oblige them and to feed into the 'model'. If you or anyone else feels that strongly about the subject stand your moral ground and refuse to do business with the companies that license imagery from these industry house wreckers.
To wrap it up neatly..... your advice was for all purposes good advise. If David's desire was to simply cover an NBA game and was willing to gamble the cash and pocket the experience of sitting on the apron, USPresswire was a viable option, your zinger not withstanding.
Oh and no I didn't mark your post one way or the other. |
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Michael Granse, Photographer
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 4:37 PM on 05.26.09 |
->> David, (original poster)
It took absolute guts to ask the question that you asked given the collective groan that it was destined to provoke. Over the past several years, I have been compiling a mental list of "Rules of the Industry" that is based on opinions expressed in message board posts. Since I have the benefit of having been reading this board for a few more years than you, I thought I would share this as it will save you the headache of spending the next few years learning these rules as you go.
It is very important to me that anyone who bothers to read this understands that I am not attacking anyone as an individual, group, or organization in posting these “rules.” I am simply restating opinions that have been expressed by many over the years.
If any “rule” seems to be in conflict with another rule or simply in conflict with logic, simply set logic aside and keep reading. Only then can one truly understand.
1. It is NEVER ok to give up your copyright to an image.
2. It is ok to give up your copyright to an image for a large fee.
3. Shooting as a staffer for a newspaper and in doing so giving up your copyright is ok.
4. Shooting as a freelancer for a newspaper and in doing so giving up your copyright is not ok.
4. Shooting for the Associated Press as a staffer and in doing so giving up your copyright is ok.
5. Shooting for the Associated Press as a freelancer and in doing so giving up your copyright is not ok.
6. Being a newspaper staffer while shooting as a freelancer for the Associated Press and in doing so giving up your copyright is ok.
7. Shooting as a staffer for an agency and in doing so giving up your copyright is ok.
8. Shooting as a freelancer for an agency and in doing so giving up your copyright is not ok.
9. Shooting an assignment on your own as a freelance photographer and then utilizing your skills and experience to market these photos while keeping your copyright is ok.
10. Shooting an assignment on your own as a freelance photographer and then having an agency utilize their skill, experience, and contacts to sell the images while paying them a 50% commission and keeping your copyright is not ok.
11. If you use Nikon cameras, you will not get any work because you are not a pro.
12. If you use Canon cameras, you will not get any work because you are not a pro. |
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Eric Canha, Photographer
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Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 4:53 PM on 05.26.09 |
->> @Michael Granse
PRICELESS! |
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John H. Reid III, Photographer
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Gates Mills | OH | USA | Posted: 6:17 PM on 05.26.09 |
->> Michael Granse,
Although clever and humorous, there is one clarification that needs to be made to your post. If a photographer is on staff, by definition in copyright law, copyright belongs to the organization, not the photographer, absent specific contract language to the contrary (this is rare.) A freelancer, by definition in copyright law, is the copyright holder absent specific contract language to the contrary (this is quite common.)
It's not that a staffer is "giving up" copyright. Copyright is not theirs in the first place. A freelancer is "giving up" copyright by signing an agreement to that effect (absent that agreement, the freelancer is the copyright holder.) I feel this is a very important point that must be made here, as there may be many that are unaware of the difference between staffer and freelancer when it comes to copyright.
As to numbers 11 and 12, this is why I use both Canon and Nikon. ;-) |
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David Dermer, Photographer
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Cortland | Oh | 44410 | Posted: 8:14 PM on 05.26.09 |
| ->> It is my first post, I should have wrote be gentle. But its no problem. Any Advice is good advice at this point. So no problem guys. |
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Mark J. Terrill, Photographer
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Simi Valley | CA | USA | Posted: 8:22 PM on 05.26.09 |
| ->> Good attitude David. Hang in there. |
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David Manning, Photographer
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Athens | GA | | Posted: 8:28 PM on 05.26.09 |
->> David,
Just make good pictures - wherever you are.
Be it little league or the World Series. Focus on making good pictures. |
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Alan Look, Photographer
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Bloomington | IL | United States | Posted: 8:40 PM on 05.26.09 |
->> 37 responses and I don't see one that really answers David's question. Hopefully I'm blind and just missed it.
David, take a look in the guide and see if there is any information in there regarding the teams/venues that you want to get credentialed for. Look for a name, phone number or email. If you can't find the information there, look at the team/venue's website for the contact information.
Now that you have the information, initiate some contact - if you have permission by the paper you freelance for to initiate the contact, do it. If you don't, ask your editor or contact at the paper to do it for you... Just don't misrepresent yourself of the paper. Ask them what they need to begin the credentialling process. For most, it isn't a lot. For others, they will want more paperwork.
You will either get credentialed or denied. If you get denied, politely ask for a reason so that you can prepare for next year.
The more you build your client list the better your results usually become. If you need to build a client list, look above for some of the suggestions. Most likely if your freelancing for a paper you will be able to get credentialed for some college level sports. Use those to build your client list.
Feel free to drop me a line if you want other suggestions. You can get me best using the contact form on my member page or you can find my email info on my website. My phone generally rolls to VM.
www.alanlook.com
http://chimperscage.blogspot.com |
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David Dermer, Photographer
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Cortland | Oh | 44410 | Posted: 2:06 AM on 05.27.09 |
->> Thank You Guys!
Everything is all really helpful and useful.
Anytime I go to a game, it can be a 8th grade basketball game with 20 people in the stands or an Ohio State football game with 110,000 people in the stands I want the better picture than the guy from Getty with the top of the line equipment. I want that shot no matter where I am.
That is what gets me going when im somewhere if im being paid or not.
People asked "Why I would want to shoot pro sports"
Im a Cleveland fan I pay tons of money to watch the teams play and break my heart, so why not go have fun watch my teams do something I enjoy. (My attempt at a little humor) |
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Jesse Piecuch, Photographer
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Warren | OH | United States | Posted: 12:46 AM on 06.02.09 |
| ->> David, I've been there bud. I live for Cleveland sports. I've been fortunate enough to know the right people that could get me onto the sideline and shoot the game. Which is why I need to tell you this: It sucks big time when you shoot your team! It's harder to think about the images you want to create because what you really want to do is to scream at Braylon to catch the ball or something like that. Keep at it. If you ever want to go out shooting feel free to give me a call. |
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Tim Steadman, Photographer
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Charlotte | NC | | Posted: 4:49 PM on 06.05.09 |
->> If you want to get your foot in the door fast, LEARN HOW TO TAKE GOOD CLEAN SPORTS PORTRAITS. That's helped me more than anything when people look at my portfolio. There are thousands of good sports action photographers, but not so many that can pull off a good portrait.
Sorry Guys, but you can't really make a HS football sports action shot look like a big name college or NFL one in most cases (lighting sucks most of the time and empty bleachers or fat parents sitting in lawn chairs in the background doesn't make for great shots), so I understand why you, David, want to go big time with the NBA or NHL! Don't get me wrong though fellow SS's, HS sports are great training grounds. Sure I enjoy driving a Ford Taurus, but I'd love to drive a Jag!
Here is the beauty about portraits, you can make a 6 year old football player or a High School baseball player look like the big leaguer who is featured SI. You just have to understand lighting, get plenty of flashes and pocket wizards and have some creative ideas. If you wow editors with these portraits, they are going to think you can shoot great action shots (in my opinion) and then Boom, more opportunities will be given to you and these might include the NBA or NHL. |
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Dave Prelosky, Photographer
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Lower Burrell | Pa | US | Posted: 5:41 PM on 06.05.09 |
| ->> As an aside, greetings to any of you passing thru town for the Big Hockey Game series. |
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Mark J. Terrill, Photographer
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Simi Valley | CA | USA | Posted: 8:45 PM on 06.05.09 |
->> Tim,
I totally agree with you about portraits. I think that if you can light well, you'll go far in the business. Sports portraits is how my brother makes a living. Check out his multi part lesson on lighting here on this site at http://www.sportsshooter.com/special_feature/2003_luau_video/5_min_light/in.... Nice stuff by the way.
However, I can't agree with you about good action photos at the lower levels. No one is saying that he should try to make HS football look like the pros. The question is why would you want to? You think that it's going to impress an editor viewing a portfolio because his action shots are of pros? Think again. A good action shot is a good action shot and vice versa. I don't care what it's of. If you want to turn off an editor real quick, put a mediocre picture of the President in your portfolio. I see a lot of people do this when I review portfolios because they think it's going to impress an editor. The same goes for action of pros. The best piece of advice that I can give someone is to not put something in your portfolio because of who is in it.
BTW, some of the worst backgrounds are in the pros. You can't shoot a picture without an ad in it anymore.
Now wanting to shoot the pros just to have the experience is perfectly understandable, but I can tell you from 27 years of shooting pros and amateurs that an amateur is 10 times more likely to dive for a ball than a pro. |
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John H. Reid III, Photographer
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Gates Mills | OH | USA | Posted: 9:13 PM on 06.05.09 |
->> Second time this thread I'm going to strongly agree with Mark Terrill (for the record, I have never met him.) For him it was a photos of the President. For me, when people found out I shot a lot of sports, it was Michael Jordan. As Mark says, editors are not going to be impressed by a mediocre photo of a pro athlete, no matter how iconic their stature. They will be impressed by a great photo, even if it's T-Ball. I was fortunate enough to have photographed Jordan a few times. There are no photos of him in my portfolio, however. There are several of D III football, soccer and baseball, however.
I also understand the allure of pro games. My advice here is a bit Zen, but perhaps the way to achieve your goal is to want it less. If your definition of success is to be shooting pro games, you may be disappointed. If it's making great photos wherever you are, you may get what you want.
Finally, if you are getting to many fans in the background of your HS football photos, go behind the end zone. The backgrounds will be the cleanest you can find. |
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Tim Steadman, Photographer
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Charlotte | NC | | Posted: 10:46 PM on 06.05.09 |
| ->> I agree with you Mark. Thanks too. I didn't explain my secondary point (sports action) very well..... just wanted to share the importance of having the ability to create a consistently good portrait under any kind of time restraint or circumstance. Wife is calling.... |
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Michael Durisseau, Photographer, Assistant
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Santa Fe | TX | USA | Posted: 11:47 AM on 06.06.09 |
->> Mr. Dermer,
There are a number of posts here that I agree with, but let me put it to you this way: I think there are some basic things you need to do (speaking as an editor and photo editor) to give yourself a chance. The grammar and spelling would not make me want to hire you. I also think that you need to be successful where you are. Make your best photos regardless of the environment. The flexibility to make the best images under any circumstances will advance you in this career.
As Mr. Hanashiro said, though, most teams will not give you what you seek without covering them in some fashion first. Otherwise, make contact with the teams you want to shoot, with the contacts listed in The Guide. |
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Kevin Leas, Photographer, Assistant
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Rochester | NY | USA | Posted: 6:39 PM on 06.06.09 |
->> "I see a lot of people do this when I review portfolios because they think it's going to impress an editor. The same goes for action of pros. The best piece of advice that I can give someone is to not put something in your portfolio because of who is in it."
Tim - while I agree that this is generally great advice, I do feel I have to counter with the fact that a very successful commercial photographer in my area has told me plenty of stories about how a client saw a photo of someone they knew on his website, and called him based largely on that. While I certainly don't believe that it's wise to hire a photographer just because he/she has shot someone famous, it does work sometimes.
To be fair - the photographer I'm talking about here is an absolute lighting wizard, so he certainly isn't relying on that star power to land him jobs. I'm just saying that it happens. Sometimes. |
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Mark J. Terrill, Photographer
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Simi Valley | CA | USA | Posted: 6:48 PM on 06.06.09 |
->> Kevin,
I think you're quoting me. What you're talking about is a different situation. I'm talking about presenting a portfolio to an editorial editor and I'm assuming that he's trying to break into editorial to shoot big time sports. Of course there are exceptions to every rule. |
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