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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Point & Shoot digital recommendation??
Lisa Hall, Photographer
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Oklahoma City | OK | USA | Posted: 3:24 PM on 05.05.09 |
| ->> I remember seeing a thread not too long ago about a Canon G10, but after researching, it might be too heavy & bulky. I'm looking for a small digital that I can throw in a purse & not have to carry heavy equipment for a family vacation. I hate a delayed shutter, but may not have a choice. Would love to have some sort of zoom. Any suggestions? |
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Daniel Celvi, Student/Intern
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Carbondale | IL | | Posted: 3:53 PM on 05.05.09 |
->> Well, I know this isn't digital, but it was a fun film camera (until I broke it...). The Olympus XA, it has a 35mm f/2.8 lens, aperture priority metering, and manual rangefinder focusing. Again, no digital, but it's relatively small (I'd say, a bit bigger than a pack of cigarettes), pretty sharp lens, and good results very easily. And, if you don't want shutter lag (or shutter noise for that matter), you won't have it! Seriously, you press the button, it takes a picture.
Again, I know it's not digital, but it was a fun camera for messing around with. If you want digital, I'd turn to dpreview.com—as I always recommend, really stellar reviews. Very helpful in figuring out what you want in a price and size bracket for compacts as well. |
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Nick Morris, Photographer
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San Marcos | CA | United States | Posted: 4:34 PM on 05.05.09 |
| ->> G10 isn't really that bad as far as bulk and weight. Considering it's capabilities and size it's a pretty sweet cam. Have you actually checked it out in person yet? I'd do that before I cast it off. If it turns out to be too much then Nikon CoolPix 630, Olympus Stylus 1050, and Canons Powershot 880DIS are probably going to be your best bets. |
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Matt Stamey, Photographer
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Houma | LA | USA | Posted: 4:35 PM on 05.05.09 |
->> I have a Leica D-Lux 3. It fits in my pocket and shoots really well for a point and shoot. It can be put on full auto or full manual and everything in between. And also has the option to shoot on RAW.
I've also used it to shoot video in a pinch for my newspapers website. |
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Jeff Mills, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Columbus | OH | USA | Posted: 5:02 PM on 05.05.09 |
->> Most any of the Canon ELPH series are going to take good pictures and are very small. Quite nice interface as well on them.
The Fuji F200 EXR is another good on to look at, nice range of 28-140mm, and has a bit more dynamic range and higher iso performance than most
Ricoh also is one to check out if you want more manual control and RAW mode. The GX200 has a nice 24-70mm zoom range, full manual controls and RAW mode. Nice the most compact on the market but if you value control its a great choice.
Lastly the Panasonic ZS3 is one to check out, I'm planning on buying one myself as soon as they are in stock somewhere. Its got a 25-300mm zoom range which is fantastic in a pocketable compact. Shoots HD video as well and you can even zoom during recording. Its rather lacking on manual control but for a nice snapshot camera I think it looks very nice and would be so versatile.
You are wise to rule out the G10 though. While a great camera, its defiantly to big to go into a pocket (maybe a purse) Nice tool but not the type of thing you'd want to carry on a casual day. |
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Doug Holleman, Photographer
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Temple | TX | USA | Posted: 5:42 PM on 05.05.09 |
->> I'm looking for something cheap, but good, and have decided between two Canons; the Powershot A590is and the A1000is. The A590is is one of the most recommended P&S cameras in it's price range for serious photographers, and it's on sale at Staples for $97. The A1000is is 7 months newer and has most of the same features, but is 10 MP, as opposed to eight, and is $129.99.
The 590 has an aperture priority mode and manual focus, which the 1000 doesn't. Same lens range, same ISO range, both have image stabilization, so I'm leaning a bit in the direction of the A590. Both are cheap enough, but unless the A1000is is somehow better with high ISO images or something like that I'm likely going for the 590. Does anyone have experience with both that can tell me if the A1000is has any major advantage?
On the plus side for these Canon models for me:
They use AA batteries, so I don't have to worry about them being recharged if something comes up in a hurry. I can just pop in a couple of alkalines and I'm good to go.
SD cards, rather than XD or something less common that I don't already have.
Those two factors were what eliminated Olympus and a couple of others I was considering, though I have always found Olympus to be one of the best quality and bang per buck in the P&S area. |
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Chuck Steenburgh, Photographer
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Lexington | VA | USA | Posted: 6:17 PM on 05.05.09 |
->> Panasonic's TZ-series, inexplicably renamed "ZS" in the US beginning with the TZ6 (now called the ZS1), is what you want:
- "Flat" profile, pocketable without being too tiny
- Wide zoom range (from 28-280 for the TZ3, TZ4, & TZ5; 25-300 for the ZS1/ZS3 or TZ6/TZ7)
- Durable
- Real (optical) image stabilization
- Reasonably responsive and good manual overrides
I used a TZ4 personally for several months, bought new about a year ago for a bargain price of $200. You can get TZ5's for about the same price now if you look a little as they are being moved to make way for the ZS models.
What I don't like about the Canon A's that Doug mentions above is that they aren't very durable. Too plastic. I broke one without much effort. But great cameras aside from that.
Jeff's suggestions are quite good if you're willing to spend $300-$400 or more. |
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William Maner, Photographer
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Biloxi | MS | USA | Posted: 6:59 PM on 05.05.09 |
->> Shutter lag comparison...
I stumbled across this list when looking for something else.. It's from a UK site, but it should be fairly easy to find the equivalent USA models..
I don't know how old this list is, but it does provide a point of reference...
Here's the link:
http://www.cameras.co.uk/html/shutter-lag-comparisons.cfm?sort=Camera |
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Lisa Hall, Photographer
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Oklahoma City | OK | USA | Posted: 7:30 PM on 05.05.09 |
->> Thanks everyone-
I know I won't be happy with any shutter lag since what I use now is 8.2 frames a second. Thanks for that link, William. I know that's something I'll have to get used to. All I want is a small, good quality camera to shoot family and sight seeing.
Nick, I haven't played around with the G10, just read everything I could get my hands on.
I'm planning on spending $300-400.......my husband is an insurance adjuster and he'll probably end up with it. Which means it has to be extremely easy to use! |
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Steve Ueckert, Photographer
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Houston | TX | | Posted: 7:39 PM on 05.05.09 |
| ->> Ditto G10, it needs to be big enough to access the controls. I also have a Canon PowerShot SD 800 IS which I use only as a P&S, it is flat in the pocket and has a 28mm equivalent on the wide end. |
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Curtis Clegg, Photographer
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Sycamore | IL | USA | Posted: 9:43 PM on 05.05.09 |
->> The phrase "too big" means different things to different people. In another thread I think there was confusion about the newer Canon G9/G10 and the older cameras like the G3 and G5, which are really quite different in terms of size:
http://www.sportsshooter.com/message_display.html?tid=32137#21
If shutter lag is your biggest concern, the new Casios have *negative* shutter lag... you can set it up so you can capture events that occurred a second or more before you actually press the shutter button:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0809/08091601casio_fh20.asp |
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Robert Hanashiro, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | | Posted: 10:04 PM on 05.05.09 |
->> G10.
Hands down.
'Nuff said! |
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Stanley Leary, Photographer
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Roswell | GA | USA | Posted: 10:26 PM on 05.05.09 |
| ->> Be sure if G10 it has been fixed. It was recalled for a banding issue. Takes 3 weeks to be repaired. |
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Jeff Mills, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Columbus | OH | USA | Posted: 11:03 PM on 05.05.09 |
->> G10 is a great camera (would of been better had they kept the time lapse mode like the G9 had) but I really can't see it as a vacation camera.
As a serious photographic tool it works quite well, but for throwing in your pocket and using to take vacation snapshots ? Its just too big and wont come close to fitting in any pants I own. I guess it might work okay for a purse but still think its pushing it. You just dont really need that much manual control for family snapshots I dont think it. Literally "point and shoot" is about all the more my family has the patience for. They dont want to hold a pose while I'm messing with my camera.
I had an earlier G7 I took with me on a family trip to Disney and it frankly was a bit of a pain because I always knew I had a camera with me. Not as bad as wearing a DSLR around my neck of course but honesty if I'm going to carry a G10, I might as well carry a smaller DSLR like a D90.
A vacation camera is the type of camera that you've got to be able to slip into a pocket and not even know its with you. Leaves you free to enjoy your time with the family and spend your time taking in the atmosphere instead of cursing the darn camera you've got strapped on your shoulder because it wont fit in your pocket lol. |
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Robert Seale, Photographer
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Houston | TX | USA | Posted: 6:01 PM on 05.06.09 |
->> I may be late to this party, but I've read great things about the Panasonic LX-3 (or Leica D-Lux 4)....they seem to be out of stock everywhere, so I suspect a new version may be coming soon?....or is just a huge seller and they can't keep up? anyone have any thoughts or experiences with it or the Leica version? Is there any real difference?
I love the G10, but it's a bit bulky for the p&s purpose....also, I like the fact that the LX-3 or D-Lux 4 has a 24/2.0 lens at the wide end.
Any thoughts or experiences would be appreciated. |
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Debra L Rothenberg, Photographer
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New York | NY | USA | Posted: 6:11 PM on 05.06.09 |
->> I like my little 12 megapixel Kodak-smaller than a Blackberry
here are some photos from it:
http://www.sportsshooter.com/rothenbergphoto/kodakps/
I can't complain one bit about it. The photo of the bridge was taken at dusk from a moving train
The G10 is a great camera, but this one fits a pocket, a purse or your palm perfectly |
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Tom Sperduto, Photographer
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Edison | NJ | USA | Posted: 9:09 PM on 05.06.09 |
->> Robert - I have the LX3 and I love it. It's the best PS I have ever owned. I have not shot the Leica D-Lux 4 but I have heard it it is the same camera different name.
The thing I love about the LX3 is the lens. I carry this camera with me everywhere.
I shot a 50 mile ultra marathon with the LX3 while running. To see the pics including some low light stuff visit:
http://www.tomsperduto.com
Client Access (top of page)
password: jfk50 |
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Jeff Mills, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Columbus | OH | USA | Posted: 9:22 PM on 05.06.09 |
->> Robert, the LX-3 is a really nice camera in many ways and yet falls a bit short in others.
Its image quality along with the G10 is as good as it gets in the P&S market right, and it also features full manual controls, RAW mode, and a "fast" f2.0 lens.
Where it comes up short, both literally and figuratively is in its focal range of just 24-60mm. 24mm on the wide end is great. I personally never got along with the earlier p&s models which usually had 35 or sometimes 38mm eqiv. at their widest setting. Just doesn't work for taking in much of a scene. During the time I found mine though I was constantly wanting more reach. 60mm just wasn't enough for me, at least in terms of casual photography. Its certainly an issue where everyone is going to be different in their needs, but much of my use in a travel/pocket camera is being able to capture a wide range of subjects at various focal ranges.
The other issues I had with it might seem sort of trivial but really do tend to annoy you over the course of a few days with the camera. Those issues would be its size is really just a bit too large to fit in my pockets easily. Its a rather slim camera body, however, the lens barrel does not go flush with the camera body when off, it extends about half an inch so you've got a camera thats about 1.5" thick in that regard.
Additionally the lens cap drove me insane. You obviously don't want to go putting the camera into your pocket with no lens cap on, but when you use a lenscap that then means you need to take it off each time you shoot and then tether it onto the camera so its always getting in the way. Its sort of a silly issue I know but I just found it sort of ackward as I couldn't pull the camera out of my pocket and take a quick photo at a moments notice or with one hand. Cameras with automatic lens covers when turned off are much nicer in that regard to me at least.
Overall it really was quite a nice camera but just one that I didnt quite work for my needs. Its really sort of a unique tool that could be perfect for some peoples taste. I wouldn't be surprised to see a new model come out sooner or later though with a big more reach, maybe a 24-85mm lens even if its slower such as f2.8. Realistically most consumers are going to be more intrested in a bigger zoom range than they are about a faster lens and the sales guy at BestBuy probably doesn't understand enough about apeture to even be able to educate a consumer about what advantage a f2.0 lens would be. |
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Stanley Leary, Photographer
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Roswell | GA | USA | Posted: 11:48 PM on 05.06.09 |
->> The reason I bought the LUMIX TZ5 was because of the zoom range. While not shooting RAW it is not to replace my D3s.
I have noticed a few things about these point and shoots.
Since the camera is so small the depth-of-field is much greater than with larger 35 mm digital cameras. The ƒ-stop of the ƒ/3.3 on my little Lumix (wide open) compares approximately to ƒ/22 on a 35 mm. So, shooting these small cameras and getting a shallow depth of field just will not work. Not even with 1.4 lens.
The great thing is when it comes to macro. Shooting wide open is great because there is such a great depth of field.
Here are a few things I have discovered in the past month:
1. Due to the size and weight I carry it almost everywhere. With every positive there is the Ying-Yang effect. These cameras, even with vibration reduction, are exceptionally tricky to hold steady. A tripod is a great help.
2. The camera manuals are not written as they are for traditional cameras. You will need to not only read the manual, but practice what it preaches using all the available functions to discover what each mode will do. Many of these cameras have many modes that take some time to understand.
3. For most of these cameras obtaining a shallow depth-of-field is impossible. Advise - Learn to live with it. (Oh yeah. That’s one of the reasons I kept all my pro equipment.)
4. Carrying one of these cameras will help you see and make photos more often. The constant presence of a camera will fine-tune your eye.
5. (Perhaps most important of all.) Carrying a camera all the time can cause some problems with… your family. As my son commented last night at a restaurant, “It’s like having your on personal paparazzi!” |
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Steve Ueckert, Photographer
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Houston | TX | | Posted: 11:59 PM on 05.06.09 |
->> I like the optical viewfinder on the G10, it is just big enough for me to use (I don't wear glasses.) The VF on the G9 was just a bit too small.
A couple of days ago I saw someone shooting the LX-3 with the Leica 24mm viewfinder (from the M cameras.) It looked like an infinitely better way of shooting than using the Live View mode of the rear screen. Obviously this precludes any use of the zoom, but for discreet candids, it looked pretty cool. |
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Darren Whitley, Photographer
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Maryville | MO | USA | Posted: 12:38 AM on 05.07.09 |
| ->> Canon A580... it takes AA batteries. It's tolerable and it's cheap. I think they retail for $105 at B&H. Use it and when it's worn out buy another cheapy. |
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Lisa Hall, Photographer
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Oklahoma City | OK | USA | Posted: 7:54 PM on 05.07.09 |
->> Tom,
Thanks for including images. It helps to see what you get!! I was particularly interested in evening and action. I had already narrowed it down between the Canon G10 and your model.
Thanks to everyone, and if you have a real strong opinion on the model you recommend, please send some images. |
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Ian L. Sitren, Photographer
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Palm Springs | CA | USA | Posted: 11:38 PM on 05.07.09 |
->> A lot of people are stuck between the Leica D-Lux-4 and the G10. Great pictures Tom.
I have been trying to decide the same.
The Leica, no viewfinder, big issue for me, I get confused without it. Also more expensive. But I continue to hear superb things about image quality.
The Canon, cheap all considering. And you can pretty much use it as a back up with it's longer reach. Downside is not great performance at higher iso.
But then there is my Contax G1, just keeps going. I have shot assignments with it, don't tell anyone. |
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Robert Seale, Photographer
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Houston | TX | USA | Posted: 11:44 PM on 05.07.09 |
->> Tom thanks for the info and images - very cool....this is strange....I finally settle on the LX-3 and there's not one to be found in the whole country.
Ugh. |
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Ron Scheffler, Photographer
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Hamilton (Toronto area) | Ontario | Canada | Posted: 12:00 AM on 05.08.09 |
->> Last I checked with my local retailer in town and they had it in stock a week ago... though I'm in Canada.
There are a couple Canadian online retailers that indicate they have stock at the moment:
http://www.cameracanada.com/eNet-cart/Product.asp?pid=DMCLX3K&type=
http://www.vistek.ca/store/DigitalCameras/238993/panasonic-dmclx3k-lumix-di...
BTW, I also looked at both the Canon G10 and LX3 and decided on the LX3. No disappointments, except that my GF took one look at it an claimed it as her own (hence the reason I check availability recently). If you want to primarily do people photos, then it is an ideal camera. If you feel the lens isn't long enough, then the problem is you're not close enough!
I might go for the Panasonic FX37 (or the updated version FX48) and see if I can get my GF to take it as a trade for LX3. |
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Jason Hunter, Photographer, Assistant
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Potsdam | NY | United States | Posted: 10:37 AM on 05.08.09 |
| ->> Is there a shutter delay with either the LX-3 or the G10? That's one of my biggest concerns with a point and shoot, but with the price of those cameras I would hope not. |
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William Maner, Photographer
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Biloxi | MS | USA | Posted: 11:28 AM on 05.08.09 |
->> Jason Hunter.. I included a link with shutter lag info in my earlier message in this thread..
According to the site, the LX3 has a lag of .36 seconds.. The G10 is .41 seconds..
The fastest P&S camera in the listing is the Sony DSC H10 at .15 seconds... |
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Rich Cruse, Photographer
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Laguna Niguel | CA | USA | Posted: 1:06 PM on 05.08.09 |
->> I guess the big question is- Are you looking for a professional level camera or one that is very small and has good quality images? I purchased a Canon PowerShot S70 a number of years ago. It is relatively compact, but heavy and certainly not something you can put in your pocket. It was also $500, so it is not something I like for parties or kicking around.
Someone else posed the same question a couple of months ago and I came across a Nikon S51c for $149, so I bought it.
http://tinyurl.com/phwbay
Its specs are: 8 megapixel, 3 to 1 optical zoom and a giant LCD viewfinder. The interesting part for me was the built-in Wi-Fi! Once you sign up online, you can use the camera to send photos direct to your page on the Nikon Picturetown web site. You get two gigs free. It has been fun being able to upload from people's houses and coffee shops. This is great for vacations when you don't want to bring a computer.
I take this camera with me everywhere-because it is so small and WILL fit in my pocket. Also, it was only $149. I do not feel great bringing along an expensive camera for parties or for everyday stuff.
The colors are great and the picture quality is very good. I can send you samples if you are interested. Of course it shoots video with sound as well. |
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Lisa Hall, Photographer
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Oklahoma City | OK | USA | Posted: 8:48 PM on 05.08.09 |
->> Thanks everyone!!!
Purchased a G10 after trying different P&S that were recommended. Love it!! |
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Curtis Clegg, Photographer
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Sycamore | IL | USA | Posted: 10:25 PM on 05.08.09 |
->> Ian I thought the same thing about the optical viewfinder so I got the G9, but as it turns out the viewfinder is not that hot, especially if you are used to a DSLR that shows focus points, ISO, shutter speed, and aperture. I find myself looking at the LCD all the time to view/change those settings, and composing with the LCD while I'm at it.
Plus, if you put a lens hood on a G series camera, the viewfinder is probably 50% obscured anyway. |
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Saul Loeb, Photographer
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Washington | DC | USA | Posted: 4:00 PM on 05.09.09 |
| ->> Fuji F200EXR. After looking for a while, narrowed down to the Fuji and the LX3. Image quality seemed pretty similar to me, plus the Fuji has a longer lens and will actually easily fit into a pocket. |
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Ron Scheffler, Photographer
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Hamilton (Toronto area) | Ontario | Canada | Posted: 1:29 PM on 05.10.09 |
->> Regarding shutter lag... With all the P&S cameras there's also AF lock lag, which can sometimes be significant. The feature I really like on the LX3 is the ability to set it to manual focus, then use the small AF button located near the shutter release to prefocus shots. Because the depth of field with these cameras is so deep when photographing general scenes and there is a lot of focus leeway, I found I could just leave the camera at the preset focus distance, then shoot whenever I wanted without it having to refocus each time. Other P&S cameras require you to keep the shutter button partially depressed in order to keep the AF locked and ready to shoot, which isn't nearly as practical.
This function of the LX3 is a lot like shooting with the AF start back button on SLRs, which is maybe why I like it so much. In any case, it makes the LX3 much more responsive. |
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PJ Heller, Photographer
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Santa Barbara | CA | USA | Posted: 4:56 PM on 05.13.09 |
->> Anybody have comments about the differences between the Canon G9 and G10 (other than one being newer)? Given the choice, which would you choose.
I have an option to pick up a G9 under the Canon loyalty program (or an SD890) and also know someone selling a G10 (which would be substantially more $$). Mainly interested in the G9/10. |
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