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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Contest pulls award for manipulated images
Sean D. Elliot, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Wesley R. Bush, Photographer
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Nashville | TN | U.S. | Posted: 4:07 PM on 04.13.09 |
| ->> I don't think they should have even needed the RAW to compare. I thought I was having a flashback for the one that was entered. |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 4:31 PM on 04.13.09 |
->> Wow. These guys that get burned doing this always say the same thing:
Christensen disagreed with the outcome. "In my opinion, a RAW file ... has nothing to do with reality and I do not think you can judge the finished images and the use of Photoshop by looking at the RAW file," he told Tønnesen. |
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Michael Granse, Photographer
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 4:33 PM on 04.13.09 |
->> Whoa! When you look at them side by side, the finished product almost looks like it has been processed with High Dynamic Range software.
While there is absolutely nothing wrong with HDR as an art form, it should go without saying that such techniques should not be used for PJ work or a PJ contest.
As for requesting the RAW file for comparison, I absolutely support that idea even if it does look like an obvious manipulation. Due process is a great thing, and as the judges evaluate the RAW file they would be able to determine if the contest winning photo could have been created from the RAW file without breaking the rules. Such a process could just as easily be used to find a suspected photographer innocent of wrongdoing as to disqualify one from competition.
Can you imagine being disqualified from a competition, lose your credibility, have your career wrecked, and NOT be given an opportunity to have your RAW file evaluated? What if you realy did follow the rules, and if in doing so arrived honestly at a contest winning photo and got accused of cheating?
Every contest should ask for RAW files if they have doubts about an entry. |
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Michael Johnson, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Geneseo | NY | USA | Posted: 4:41 PM on 04.13.09 |
->> Wow I like Christensen statement that next time he's submitting images in B&W.....like that's going to hide the extra work put into those shots.
They almost look like HDRI's.
I know that many of us manipulate photo's for our own use but I would have figured with all the stories in the recent years of photog's over manipulating images and getting fired that people would be wiser about what they did in these situtations. |
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Jack Howard, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Central Jersey | NJ | USA | Posted: 5:06 PM on 04.13.09 |
->> For clarity sake, what everyone is calling HDRIs is actually a specific style of Tone Mapping that enhances detail, saturation, and gives an overall grittiness to an image, whether applied to a bracketed sequence of source images or, as in this case, a single image cooked in a pseudo-HDR workflow or TMO.
HDRI is an amazingly robust color space, bit depth, workflow and concept, and the grungified ultra-detailed tonemapping of single-source images tagged "HDR" is but one small, pesky, well-known facet of a much larger imaging process.
People often remark to certain HDR photos I've shot: "That doesn't look like an HDR shot..." as if the grungification style is all it is about.
You can't imagine how many SB-900s I needed to fill out the quartertones in this shot:
http://www.sportsshooter.com/jackhoward/tonemapped/pages/1.html
Just kidding--this is full-on multiple source image HDRI workflow, with an intent towards seamless photorealism. Does this "look like HDR?"
Honestly, "it looks like HDR" to describe just grungy shots that are cooked in Topaz, ACR or LR is getting about as old as people calling serious, earnest photojournalists "paparazzi." You see, there's an assumption without necessarily understanding the nuances between the differences... |
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Bradly J. Boner, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Jackson | WY | USA | Posted: 5:07 PM on 04.13.09 |
| ->> Sean - Do you by any chance know if a RAW file was ever subpoenaed in the POYi, CPOY or BOP contests? I've heard of this happening a couple of times in international photojournalism contests but don't recall it happening in any of the major domestic contests. |
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Michael Johnson, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Geneseo | NY | USA | Posted: 5:18 PM on 04.13.09 |
->> Jack I shoot HDRI.
While I didn't say the image was it possesses some of that qualities. As you know with the programs out there that handle HDRI you can adjust you images in just about every way imaginable. What I noticed with one of the shots that was in question is it looked like it was made through one of those programs.
Its raw file had very little detail that the finished product seemed to have.
There are three shots that where pulled. If you read through and follow the link the other 2 not in the NPPA story are just as interesting. |
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Sean D. Elliot, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Norwich | CT | USA | Posted: 10:19 AM on 04.14.09 |
->> Brad, other than the case of Patrick Schneider's images in the North Carolina contest, I do not know if any instance where a major North American competition has asked for raw, or original, files.
The images in the Danish contest certainly raise a debate. The RAW files are flat, low contrast and lacking virtually any saturation. I'm familiar with the frustration of the digital camera not yielding the results as I saw them.
I think the examples go to an extreme of enhancing colors and details toward an ideal and not aimed at reality, but still, if you weren't there, maybe the colors really were that rich. Not sure that justifies the level of digital enhancement.
I'll save the whole black and white contest entry debate for another thread :-) |
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Eric Canha, Photographer
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Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 11:39 AM on 04.14.09 |
| ->> So what would have happen if there were no raw file to go back to? What if this had been a day when the photographer (for whatever reason) had just been shooting jpg? |
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Bradly J. Boner, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Jackson | WY | USA | Posted: 11:57 AM on 04.14.09 |
->> Eric - In this instance the term "RAW file" probably could be swapped with "original file."
No matter what file format (jpg, tiff, RAW, ect.) the image was shot in I think the point is that the image submitted for the contest is vastly different than the image captured by the camera. |
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Eric Canha, Photographer
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Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 1:07 PM on 04.14.09 |
| ->> Point taken Bradly. |
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