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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Coldplay really does want to rule the world.
Jim McNally, Photographer
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Debra L Rothenberg, Photographer
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New York | NY | USA | Posted: 10:27 PM on 03.28.09 |
->> with all the crappy contracts out there I have one question---WHY would anyone sign?
I have always, and will always, walk away before I sign. |
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Steven Bisig, Photographer
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Seattle | WA | USA | Posted: 11:02 PM on 03.28.09 |
->> "with all the crappy contracts out there I have one question---WHY would anyone sign?"
the same people who work for free.
steven b~ |
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Matt Brown, Photographer
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Fullerton | CA | USA | Posted: 12:24 AM on 03.29.09 |
| ->> People working for free? I have walked away so many times. It feels great, try it some time. |
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Steven Bisig, Photographer
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Seattle | WA | USA | Posted: 12:44 AM on 03.29.09 |
| ->> walking away actually feels pretty good. |
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Kevin Leas, Photographer, Assistant
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Rochester | NY | USA | Posted: 8:05 AM on 03.29.09 |
->> "with all the crappy contracts out there I have one question---WHY would anyone sign?"
Because if you're working for a newspaper, chances are that you don't have any rights to the photos anyway. Why not go, get some nice shots, and call it a night?
What amazes me is the end of the article, where it mentions that Madonna doesn't have any contract for photographers to sign. If anything, I figured she'd have one that's as high on the "are you serious?" factor as Coldplay's. |
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Samuel Lewis, Photographer
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Miami | FL | USA | Posted: 8:15 AM on 03.29.09 |
->> Does walking away really feel good?
If you've contracted with a magazine to cover a concert, and then you find out when you arrive at the concert that your access will be conditioned upon signing an agreement or accepting a credential with the same draconian terms printed on the reverse side, are you still prepared to walk away and tell the client you did so?
Sadly, this sort of nonsense is hardly hypothetical or limited to concerts. |
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David Harpe, Photographer
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Louisville | KY | USA | Posted: 10:19 AM on 03.29.09 |
->> I agree with Samuel. Walking away never feels "good". Disappointment, maybe? Sadness?
It's important to be a professional about this sort of thing. Before you accept the assignment, you have to have a very specific conversation with your client about the "agreement" issue. If your plan is to walk if the promoter insists on having you sign a bad agreement, your client deserves to know that beforehand.
The client has options. They can give you the phone number of a contact at the publication...someone who will be around when you're going to the show and will negotiate on your behalf if you run into trouble. The client could agree to trust your judgment and back your play even if it means a walkaway with no photos. Or they could simply replace you with someone who will sign the document. Either way, it's their call, and they need to know in advance that they might not get photos.
The client doesn't have the right to tell you to sign something you don't want to sign, but they need to know your convictions ahead of time so they can make a decision based on their needs and convictions. |
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Ian L. Sitren, Photographer
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Palm Springs | CA | USA | Posted: 12:46 PM on 03.29.09 |
| ->> I don't think ColdPlay will rule the world or anything else. I for one didn't even know who they are and thought ColdPlay was just another button, plug-in or action in PhotoShop I hadn't seen. |
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Jim Colburn, Photo Editor, Photographer
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McAllen | TX | USA | Posted: 11:10 PM on 03.29.09 |
->> Screw Coldplay.
Oh yes, screw Gordon (Sting) Sumner, The Police and their manager Miles Copeland. They're the bastards that started all of the photo contract bullshit back in '81 or so. |
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Jim Urquhart, Photographer
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Salt Lake City | UT | USA | Posted: 11:49 PM on 03.29.09 |
->> I ran into a version of this contract with Coldplay in November of 2008. My paper had planned to give the show a big ride in both print and online.
We have to deal with contracts all the time, but this one was so tight and demanding it was horrifying.
We attempted an amendment to the contract but it was rejected by Coldplay's tour manager ... so there went the planned photo gallery linked with the story.
After some discussions with my director of photography we opted for me to sign the contract and just get one photo we could use as a cut-out tease refer on the front of our local section.
However, because of the contract, there would be no photos online, including a gallery and we didn't run any photos with the story in print outside of the teaser cut-out referring readers the the story.
I got some good photos that their fans here will never see because of this contract.
Also, we were allowed to shoot songs 2,3, and four, which is about standard. However, the position that was given to all of us covering this event was so far and off to one side of the action it was almost impossible to get a nice clean shot of the performance taking place. And, songs 2 and 3 were under such a dim red light I was actually trying to shoot a 300mm 2.8 hand held at 1/10 of second and they were still super under exposed( and not sharp) under a red light that would never reproduce on a cmyk press. All of my photos that we considered from this event came from the last 20 to 30 seconds of the last song we were allowed to shoot when the performers came anywhere near where we were told to stay.
Just my two cents. |
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Jeff Mills, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Columbus | OH | USA | Posted: 1:50 PM on 03.30.09 |
->> While these contracts can be absurd, I personally have to agree that it would be more foolish to walk away from what can sometimes be a very large paycheck.
When I'm hired to shoot a 2 page spread for a publication and they'll pay me more for shooting those 3 songs, or about 10 minutes of shooting, than I will make working in over a month at my normal newspaper job.
Do you want to turn down thousands of dollars and/or future assignments because you didnt like a contract ?
Are you confident that the assigning editor or art director who's expecting photos is going to take your side of things and say you were right to walk away ?
Maybe I'm not a very good concert photographer but I've shoot literally a few hundred shows, many with contracts like this, and I have never once, I repeat, never once had any band request I hand over my images. As I said, maybe I just don't take very good photos so they dont want them, who knows.
What I have had though is plenty of bands, labels and PR firms who have seen some shots and request to purchase the ability to license and otherwise use the shots. Even though I have even signed a contract they still have paid me, and paid quite nicely.
Does anyone have an example of where Coldplay requested a photographer who shot them to hand over all his/her shots and then went and used them with no compensation to the photographer ? I've never heard of that happen.
Way I see these contracts, while yes, absurd, is that they are simply a means of recourse against those photographers who are going in and trying to resell images, use them for commerical purposes etc.
For all the photographers who are shooting for a given publication and using the images in that manner, which is what they were granted the ability to shoot for in the first, I dont think theres anything to worry about.
Maybe we can allow good access to those who sign, and then those who dont want to sign to shoot from the mix area.
Maybe those who sign can shoot more than 30 seconds of songs 2, 4 and 5.
I've got a list of concert photography issues a mile long, but for me at least, the contract is not one of them.
If you feel like walking away though, I respect your choice to do so. Hopefully it leads to more publications calling me.
Maybe I'll one day get burned to when Coldplay comes to collect my images years down the road.
Of course by that point I'm sure they have gone missing or got deleted as the contract says nothing about me having to provide a Raid 0 storage array to safeguard the images in the event they ever want them.
At which point I'll have to say I'm sorry and I would gladly have loved to have handed those over but can't. What I would be willing to do for them though is have them fly me out to whatever the most exotic destination of their current tour is, put me up in a luxury hotel, take me to the venue in a limo and I will be quite happy to try to recreate the shot in question.
I figure thats the least I can do to honor my contract lol |
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August Miller, Photo Editor
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Farmington | UT | USA | Posted: 10:45 PM on 03.30.09 |
->> I've said this before and I will say it again.
1. When or if these bands make it to the Rock n 'roll hall of fame. They will just have boring publicity shots, nothing of them actually sweating and singing.
2. What if current contracts and 2-songs-and-out had been the same at Woodstock? or Live Aid? Would we have photos of Jimi Hendrix burning his guitar at the Monterey Pop Festival? or Queen performing at Live Aid?
3. Cold Play are artists, they should understand the importance of someone documenting their live performance art.
4. No historical photos of any of the bands currently in the rock n' roll hall of fame would exist.
5. These bands and singers would have much better photos in all the publications and for historical purposes if they would stick to what they do best and let us do the same.
6. Part of the problem as I see it is no different than what happens on the sidelines of NFL or NCAA games when "fantographers" come to events and offer to try to do the work of "photographers".
6. The greatful dead never lost much by letting anyone who wanted to, to record and photograph at their concerts, but rather gained a loyal following.
This is just my 2 cents worth. |
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Matthew Sauk, Photographer
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Sandy | UT | United States | Posted: 1:28 PM on 05.05.09 |
->> Dont you love it when a group like Coldplay does this, yet steals others music!
http://gmy.news.yahoo.com/v/13316038
3 people have accused them of stealing their music. |
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Jason Myers, Photographer
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West Palm Beach | FL | USA | Posted: 1:59 PM on 05.05.09 |
| ->> James Taylor had a very similar contract last week in WPB for Sunfest. It was pretty ridiculous and all photographers had to be at the sound booth about 75 yards from the stage at night with minimal lighting for the first three songs at 9pm... |
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Myung Chun, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 2:28 PM on 05.05.09 |
| ->> If you're employed by a newspaper or news agency, you have no authority to sign any contract on behalf of the company. |
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