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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Newspaper stole image
Craig Glaspell, Photographer, Assistant
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Murrieta | CA | USA | Posted: 12:36 AM on 03.18.09 |
->> I am sure this an age old problem, but first for me.
This newspaper (north county times, a san diego paper)(online edition) has a photo of mine in this story
http://www.northcountytimes.com/articles/2009/02/07/go/zd327206aa12aefc4882...
or
http://tinyurl.com/cnwagd
I have never worked with these people and the image was taken from a private gallery of mine that needed a log-in. I contacted the sports editor a month ago seeing if he needed a contributor for the supercross race and gave him a link to gallery to see my past supercross work.
I never heard back from anyone and just blew it off, then I found this today. They seemed to not have time to reply to me about contributing, but were able to login, view my gallery and grab and image.
I emailed them today asking whom I send an invoice to, but doubt I will hear from them---so, what is next?
thanks guys
Craig |
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Patrick Fallon, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Columbia | MO | USA | Posted: 12:43 AM on 03.18.09 |
| ->> CALL. |
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John OHara, Photographer
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Petaluma | Ca | United States | Posted: 1:03 AM on 03.18.09 |
->> Craig,
Go to the MASTHEAD, get the address for the Accounting dept. Bill them $350 dollars or so for a one time use of your photo.( do not mention unauthorized use)
If they do not respond, file against them ( name the CEO/Publisher & have the sherrifs dept. serve the subpoena , when they loose, they have to pay for this also.) in small claims for the $350. for non payment. Bring the paper and proof that you own the photo. Don't mention the illegal use. Go after them for non payment. THis keeps you out of Federal court. If they don't show up, you WIN.
If you don't think you can bill them and follow up in small claims for NON PAYMENT, get a new job
Don't BARK, bill, don't threat, after 30 days file. You will get there attention. Don't weaken. John |
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Derick Hingle, Photographer
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Hammond | LA | USA | Posted: 1:12 AM on 03.18.09 |
| ->> $350 I figured the going rate for a web image is about $10-20 at least that's what it seems ESPN and SI pay now days. |
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Jeff Mills, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Columbus | OH | USA | Posted: 1:54 AM on 03.18.09 |
->> Derick, that sadly is about the average web fee for an image these days. Authorized and agreed upon web usage mind you.
When someone simply takes an image they weren't authorized ot use, they haved skipped the ever so important step of negotation and agreement upon a fair usage price, and as such, its reasonable to assume they must be okay with whatever price the photographer belived that image was worth.
$350 seems quite reasonable to me and as John correctly pointed out, its quite wise to not burn as bridges with them.
They may have used the image in error, but the error was theres and as such they should be billed for it. Don't simply write it off as a mistake as that will make you seem a push over, but at the same time, don't go dasing off a nasty email that might end up burning bridges.
Simply be firm yet professional and take the steps required to collect what you are due. |
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Robert Benson, Photographer
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San Diego | CA | USA | Posted: 2:07 AM on 03.18.09 |
| ->> North County Times pays $75 per assignment. |
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Phil Hawkins, Photographer
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Fresno | ca | usa | Posted: 3:16 AM on 03.18.09 |
->> I agree 110% with John O'Hara. Do exactly what he says; if they don't have time to contact you for normal rights payment, they will surely have time for your small claims court date. Plus, if they ignore that, you get a default judgment, and from that point you get damages plus costs, plus 10% simple interest until it is paid. Once 30 days has passed from the date of the judgment, and they do not appeal, you can send the sheriff over to their bank to attach the bank account.
You don't have to get angry, no phone calls, just follow what John said and get your money. I know it's more satisfying to rant and rave, but it's not as effective.
I am sensing I have a similar deal brewing with usage on some of my images, and I just look at it as making more money than I originally billed for. |
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Ian Solender, Photographer
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Palm Beach Gardens | Fl | USA | Posted: 3:54 AM on 03.18.09 |
->> I agree with O'Hara also. If you get angry, just vent on SS.com and get it off your chest. Don't take it personal, "It all business!" Keep your head about you and just follow the above steps. Someone sports editor really screwed the pooch and when they get your invoice for an unauthorized photo use, someone's head will be rolling. And you have all the rights on your side.
I know you don't feel this way now, but if you stay cool and professional, this might turn out to be an opportunity for you. The idiots' boss might throw you an assignment or two to make it up to you since you obviously a good shooter and you didn't yell and act like an ass to him. This can possibly turn into a contact at the paper. Depends on how you work it.
Of course this is all just a possibility, but something similar happened to me and it ended up getting me a contract.
Good luck,
Ian |
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Rick Rowell, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Vista | CA | USA | Posted: 4:58 AM on 03.18.09 |
| ->> Craig, have you sent the images in to have them copyrighted. If not, do so sooner rather than later. Follow the advise you have been given. But, if it becomes necessary to sue,then you will be able to sue for damages as well as fair payment. I can't believe the NC Times could be this stupid. I guess they aren't worried to much about copyrights, unless it's their copyright that's being violated. They even marked the image "courtesy" which tells everyone that they didn't pay you for it. Either someone made a big blunder or they are playing the odds that you won't or don't know how to stand up for yourself. Good luck. |
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Rick Rowell, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Vista | CA | USA | Posted: 5:24 AM on 03.18.09 |
| ->> Oh, just one more thing. If this is copyright infringement has been done on purpose and is not just a mistake or misunderstanding from your phone conversation with them. Then why would you want to work with someone who has demonstrated the ability to steal from you? Do you think they would not do this again if given the chance. If this was a theft, before taking any work from them I would demand that they fire the person or persons responsible for the theft. Ten dollars or three hundred and fifty dollars, it doesn't matter. It's all the same. Times are tough people, and they are going to get allot tougher if we don't stand against this mentality of everything is free. Your labor is worth something and it's up to you how much that is. But remember that what one of us does effects the rest of us as well. Show courtesy to all, but reserve respect to the few that earn it. OK, I'm off my soap box. |
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Stanley Leary, Photographer
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Roswell | GA | USA | Posted: 6:47 AM on 03.18.09 |
| ->> you have 90 days from the date of infringement to register the images. Any later and the legal fees to take them to court for copyright infringement start at about $100,000. Without them being registered you cannot collect the legal fees and therefore it is a mute point. |
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James Broome, Photographer
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Tampa | FL | US | Posted: 7:42 AM on 03.18.09 |
| ->> Or a moot point. |
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Craig Glaspell, Photographer, Assistant
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Murrieta | CA | USA | Posted: 10:00 AM on 03.18.09 |
| ->> Thanks guys...will get on this asap today. I have not gone postal on anyone so thats not an issue (a lot of 'keep your cool' posts in here) and Rick Rockwell I have never spoken with anyone from this paper, ever. |
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Chuck Steenburgh, Photographer
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Lexington | VA | USA | Posted: 10:29 AM on 03.18.09 |
->> Actually, the deadline for registration is 3 months from publication, not from infringement...
"If registration is made within 3 months after publication of the work or prior to an infringement of the work, statutory damages and attorney's fees will be available to the copyright owner in court actions. Otherwise, only an award of actual damages and profits is available to the copyright owner."
From http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html |
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Mike Shepherd, Photographer
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Wichita | KS | USA | Posted: 10:52 AM on 03.18.09 |
| ->> Get screen captures of the unauthorized use before they have an opportunity to take it down. |
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Rick Rowell, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Vista | CA | USA | Posted: 1:21 PM on 03.18.09 |
| ->> See how easy it is for people to misunderstand. You said you contacted the editor. I somehow early this morning interpreted that into a phone conversation. I was a little tired when I wrote that, sorry. In any case your contact with them and the link to the sample page is what gave them access to the image. Any number of screw ups from that point on may have happened. Some people here are saying play nice nice. That is for now good advice, until you have gotten to the bottom of this. All I'm saying is, if the image was stolen from you and their is no mistake about it. It does not pay to work for people that are known thieves. They will do it again. Oh, and my last name is Rowell not Rockwell. |
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Kohl Threlkeld, Student/Intern
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Monroe | MI | USA | Posted: 2:10 PM on 03.18.09 |
->> Craig,
C'mon man, they said "photo courtesy of Craig Glaspell." I mean, isnt that good enough?
Just kidding, this happened to me once and my response was, "Its not a courtesy photo if you stole it."
Good luck.
Kohl |
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Craig Glaspell, Photographer, Assistant
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Murrieta | CA | USA | Posted: 5:42 PM on 03.18.09 |
->> All cleared up...
well, on North County Times part.
They got the image from promoter. Trying to find out how the promoter got the gallery.
North County Times did nothing wrong, a whole slew of people replied to me on this matter, all cleared up, good folks.....
news at 11 |
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Rick Rowell, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Vista | CA | USA | Posted: 1:33 PM on 03.20.09 |
| ->> Let us know when you can, what happened. I know when your on dead line you don't always have time to dot your I's and cross your T's. |
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Phil Hawkins, Photographer
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Fresno | ca | usa | Posted: 1:49 PM on 03.20.09 |
->> Hmmm.... I smella rat. From the promoter? yeah.... NCT did nothing wrong? Respectfully, I question that. Being as how they gave YOU the credit and NOT the promoter (IE "Photo courtesy of ABC Motocross Promotions") I think that "explanation" is full of beans. I mean, how did they know it was your shot if it came from the promoter? Sorry, I'm not buying it.
So, you say "all cleared up", precisely how? When are you going to get the check? Have you spoken to the "promoter"? I see more questions than answers at this point. Again, with all due respect, I also sense that you are way too quick to roll over for these "explanations". What is the bottom line? Have they mailed the check? |
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Bradly J. Boner, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Jackson | WY | USA | Posted: 2:33 PM on 03.20.09 |
| ->> Craig - I see the image is still up on the NCT's website. How is this "all cleared up?" As Phil asked, have you received a check? Just because the NCT (supposedly) got the image from the promoter doesn't give authorize them to use it. |
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Stanley Leary, Photographer
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Roswell | GA | USA | Posted: 3:00 PM on 03.20.09 |
->> Chuck:
Carolyn Wright www.photoattorney.com is who communicated this to me.
She even said you could send them a notice and tell them you grant them permission up to a date, but if they are up after that then they need to pay. Then you have infringement starting from the time you stated and not before.
I would recommend contacting her for legal questions and also if anyone needs help. |
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Jeff Crace, Photographer
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Temecula | CA | USA | Posted: 4:35 PM on 03.20.09 |
| ->> Did they forward you the email from the promoter?? that would be handy to have.... |
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Chuck Steenburgh, Photographer
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Lexington | VA | USA | Posted: 8:50 AM on 03.21.09 |
->> Stanley,
I think you may be confusing some concepts here. The deadline for registration is based on date of publication, not infringement. Sending a notice is fine, but has nothing to do with the registration process. Unless the infringement falls within that 3-month window, if someone infringes an unregistered images, you are basically screwed. You need to register your images as part of your workflow if you are concerned about infringement - not upon discovering infringement.
Question: Did you ask Carolyn about this specific situation, or are you relating some other discussion/experience and trying to apply it here? It's easy enough to confuse infringement with first publication, and/or assume they're the same date, when they're not.
Chuck
Chuck |
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Derick Hingle, Photographer
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Hammond | LA | USA | Posted: 3:29 PM on 03.22.09 |
->> Jeff,
I agree with you it is sadly what authorized usage pays now days, and I also agree something not authorized for use should be charged more, I was just making a slightly sarcastic comment, sarcasim is hard to see in a written form :-) I hope Craig is able to work something out. |
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Nick Morris, Photographer
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San Marcos | CA | United States | Posted: 4:33 PM on 03.22.09 |
->> Hey all, I can assure the North County Times is a very reputable paper and I seriously doubt in anyway they did something under handed like stealing a photo. I've worked for them for years now and they are very professional and dare I even say fair to the people who help put the paper on the street every day.
Craig, could you elaborate on what has transpired here. I'd hate for people to think that they did something under handed. |
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Samuel Lewis, Photographer
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Miami | FL | USA | Posted: 7:50 PM on 03.22.09 |
->> Stanley,
Respectfully, the advice that Carolyn provided is DEAD WRONG!
I'd suggest that the advice was worth what you paid for it, but the reality is the advice will likely do more harm than good. If the use is currently infringing, and if there's a possibility that some amount might not be recoverable due to the registration status of the image, why on earth would anyone forgive the prior usage in favor of a claim that would that much more impaired.
The best advice that anyone can give Craig, beyond doing as much of an investigation as possible (including tracking down how the promoter gained access to the image) is to (1) register the copyright for the image at issue, and (2) contact an intellectual property attorney who can help explain the best course of action under the circumstances. The investigation will help the attorney ascertain Craig's options, and the registration is the predicate to bringing a case to court (as well as an entitlement to attorney's fees, statutory damages, etc., if timely--and timely does NOT mean 90 days after the infringement).
Craig, I'm sure there is no shortage of good intellectual property attorneys in your neck of the woods. If you need help finding one, please let me know. |
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Mark Davis, Photographer
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Decatur | AL | USA | Posted: 8:33 PM on 03.22.09 |
| ->> I had similar incident happen several years ago. I sent a $1,000 invoice by certified mail. The user of my work called claiming they only paid $50 for photos. I agreed to drop it to $500, if they would pay within 5 business days, otherwise it would go to a copyright attorney. They paid the $500. |
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