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How not to look suspicious
Rob Dicker, Photographer
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Lake Villa | IL | USA | Posted: 8:02 PM on 03.05.09 |
->> Please, tell me how. I'm begging you.
Today, I had some spare time to kill between assignments, so I drove into a local park, got out of my car and took my laptop out of the trunk and got back in. I spent about 10 minutes looking at my email. I took a call on my cell phone and then picked up a book and began to read.
About five minutes later, two squad cars pulled up. After a minute or two, one of the officers came over to my car and asked what I was doing. With my book in hand I told him I was reading. He ask if that was all. I said that I had been using my laptop to read my mail and then asked why.
Apparently, someone had called 911 to report a suspicious person, acting in a lewd and lascivious way. I allowed the other police officer to search my car - which he did from top to bottom.
After about 10 humiliating minutes, they said that everything seems to be OK. It seems that the third cop (yes, three cops) was talking with the complainant.
Is there something that I should have done differently that could have prevented this. Since we are becoming mobile journalists, and our cars have now become our offices, is there something that I can do to look less suspicious? |
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Patrick Fallon, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Columbia | MO | USA | Posted: 8:19 PM on 03.05.09 |
->> Get out of the car and sit on a bench, not just sitting in your car.
P |
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Matthew Sauk, Photographer
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Sandy | UT | United States | Posted: 8:23 PM on 03.05.09 |
->> Rob,
How come you let them search your car? I would have never allowed them to do that, or is that something they are allowed to do now?
That is scary. |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 8:32 PM on 03.05.09 |
| ->> I concur. What were you thinking? There is no way in hell I would have allowed them to search my vehicle. You're just sitting there minding your own business? You have ID? Newspaper credential? First off IF you had been acting in a lewd and lascivious way why in the world do they need to search you car? And Patrick, why should anyone have to get out of their car and sit on a bench to read a book? This stinks bigtime. |
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Rob Dicker, Photographer
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Lake Villa | IL | USA | Posted: 8:47 PM on 03.05.09 |
->> Actually, having done lots of police ride alongs, I know that I didn't HAVE to let them search my car. But that could have escalated this issue. If I had refused, they could have placed me under arrest - based only on the complaint. Then they could have impounded my vehicle and searched it. I would have missed my assignment.
Since I had nothing to hide and I felt that cooperation was the path of least resistance, I let them look.
Whenever they found anything that they did know what it was, they asked me and I told them. |
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Michael Fischer, Photographer
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Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 8:49 PM on 03.05.09 |
->> Hmmm... so we take a call from a person who called the observation in and send out a patrol car to investigate. Cops ask you what you're doing. You tell them.
You Let them search. They find nothing. You could tell them at the end that you're going to take names, badge numbers, and let them know YOU'RE going to lodge a complaint. The problem here is the idiot who called in the first place is given more credence than you are.
I guess you looked like you were engaging in a moment of self pleasure in your car to someone who evidently used to work for Senator Joesph McCarthy when he looked for commies under rocks. Either that or whoever called in is an expert of self pleasure in cars in public and you looked like you were horning in on his or her turf.
I'd chalk it up to bad luck. If it happens again, I'd call your lawyer and the mayor. Either your cops have way too much to do, or not enough. I'd guess not enough. I don't volunteer to let them search anything.
Matthew and Chuck, you're right..but if asked, would you refuse them? To do so, they will react by finding probable cause and search anyway and probably bust you for something. Eventually you would work it out, but ...
Like I said, cops with too much or not enough to do. Throw in someone looking for commies and sex perverts under every rock, and it's off to the races. Only the innocent get violated. Welcome to Amerika. |
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Erik Markov, Photographer
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Kokomo | IN | | Posted: 9:01 PM on 03.05.09 |
->> I do this constantly. (read a book or talk on my cell or use my laptop in the car, not act in a lewd manner) Seriously unless the person calling the police can say with some details what it is you were doing, then you showing them newspaper id or a business card ought to be enough for them.
And that's normal stuff to do between assignments, god forbid one should be working. I've waited in my car to shoot something because I was on the side of a busy road, or done the old drive-by shooting of a building etc. Guess that's full on crazy stuff.
From now on, anyone sitting in a car in the park is not allowed to look down, giving someone else the idea there might be something going on beyond reading. -sarcasm- |
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Dominic Hanna, Photographer, Student/Intern
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Andrew Carpenean, Photographer
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Laramie | WY | USA | Posted: 9:07 PM on 03.05.09 |
->> In my opinion it doesn't sound like you were doing anything wrong and I really don’t fault the cops, but it does bug me that someone can make a random call to 911 to create such a suspicion. Don’t feel bad as folks call the police for many unnecessary things such as this individual:
http://www.apexchange.com/pages/OneUp.aspx?id=1a4882504c6843ae91eef9db0d516...,911,USABL,M3Y2009&fid=82b4dc26a5304d96a821a630a39d82d3&Token=&media=Text&slug=BC-ODD--McNuggets%20911,1st%20Ld-Writethru&format=nitf&site=1 |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 9:16 PM on 03.05.09 |
| ->> Let me add to what I said above. Sorry, I wouldn't have let them search my car. Here's what I would have done...I would have showed them my driver's license and company ID, then I would have immediately called my boss and told him to call the company lawyer, while the cops were there. Would they find anything illegal in my vehicle? No. They could rip it apart and they wouldn't find anything except a four cell maglite under the seat and a Swiss Army knife along with the carload of crap photographers keep with them. My boss would concur, this is one of those idiotic cop power things. Personally I would question, as Andrew does, why would they take the word of a randon 911 caller to harass someone sitting in their car? A couple of questions? Sure. Asking to go through your car....ahhhh NO. |
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Blaine McCartney, Photographer
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Columbus | NE | USA | Posted: 10:06 PM on 03.05.09 |
| ->> People are so paranoid these days. |
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Matthew Sauk, Photographer
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Sandy | UT | United States | Posted: 10:11 PM on 03.05.09 |
->> Chuck,
I completely agree. Why search the car I still don't understand that at all. |
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Renay Johnson, Photographer
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San Diego | CA | | Posted: 10:20 PM on 03.05.09 |
| ->> I think it sucks that the police take the word of a random caller and Rob wasn't doing a thing wrong, BUT when there really is a problem, police claim that they have to catch the person in the act of committing a crime. Don't get that one. I'm not one to cause trouble, but I definately echo that I would not let the police search my car especially since I did nothing wrong and know there is nothing illegal in that car. Rob you did nothing wrong and people sit in there car all of the time. Yeah, you look real suspicious talking on the phone and using your laptop. "rolling eyes". I hate that you went through that. sit in my Jeep and empty cards into my laptop quite often. Your not the only person who does work in their vehicle. Shame on them. |
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Steve Ueckert, Photographer
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Houston | TX | | Posted: 10:36 PM on 03.05.09 |
->> If a cop asked to search my car I would say sure, and just as they turned towards my car I would then ask, "you do have a warrant or a court order, don't you?"
Any cop can ask you anything they want, but there is nothing compelling you to acquiesce.
They can then in turn come up with any number of reasons to detain you until they do obtain a warrant. If they want to search you or your vehicle, or even your home / domicile, eventually they will. As is said, you may beat the rap but you won't beat the ride.
But our Constitution (actually the Bill of Rights) protects us from unreasonable search and seizure. So it is a tough call. Do you roll over and let the cops ransack your vehicle so you can make it to your next assignment, or do you draw a line in the sand and insist the cops respect your Constitutional rights, which could become a lengthy process.
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. |
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Michael Proebsting, Photographer
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Barrington | IL | USA | Posted: 10:39 PM on 03.05.09 |
| ->> Were you photoshopping a photo of the first lady while in the car by chance? |
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Max Gersh, Photographer
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St. Louis | MO | USA | Posted: 11:01 PM on 03.05.09 |
->> I'm waiting for something like this to happen to me. I edit in my car all of the time. Sometimes when I can't find a shady area, I hang a coat as a curtain to block glare off of my screen. I can only imagine what passers by think.
I figure I am more likely to get called out as suspicious while I am feature hunting — out of the car walking around in a park with my gear. How do you explain that to a cop?
"What are you taking pictures of?"
"I don't know yet. I'm waiting to see it."
That will get you far. |
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Robert Seale, Photographer
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Andrew Carpenean, Photographer
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Laramie | WY | USA | Posted: 11:17 PM on 03.05.09 |
->> Steve,
There are certain circumstances in which a peace officer would need a warrant to search and seize to obtain evidence to make an arrest, under a court order for a search warrant.
Typically though when pulled over the officer is going on "probable cause". And from what I read this can be any number of things. Don't get me wrong though as I would be thinking along the same lines as you, but by playing it cool I think Rob avoided a worse situation. Does that make it right? In my opinion, no.
http://www.flexyourrights.org/definition_of_probable_cause |
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Ian L. Sitren, Photographer
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Palm Springs | CA | USA | Posted: 11:21 PM on 03.05.09 |
| ->> It was the reading the book part, the person complaining perhaps never saw someone reading a book before. |
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Ronnie Montgomery, Photographer
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Jeff Martin, Photographer
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wellington | OH | usa | Posted: 12:09 AM on 03.06.09 |
| ->> Given the way the (some) police treat the press, the last thing i would show is a newspaper ID. Drivers lisc. OK. Search, no way I grant permission assuming I have some time to kill. |
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Jeff Stanton, Photographer
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Princeton | IN | USA | Posted: 12:40 AM on 03.06.09 |
->> So what, if you refuse to allow them to search your vehicle, you can be arrested in Illinois? That's absurd! The reason why they asked your permission to search it is because they can't search without your OK, probable cause that a law has been broken or a warrant.
There was an University of Arizona football player a few years ago arrested for transporting marijuana in northern Illinois. A state cop stopped him for some reason and for the hell of it, asked permission to search his car. He then found the marijuana.
When the cop was interviewed later, he said had the driver declined to give him permission, he was going to let him go. |
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Scott Utterback, Photographer
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Louisville | Ky | USA | Posted: 1:43 AM on 03.06.09 |
| ->> Maybe it was because you were only wearing a trench coat. :) |
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Jeff Stanton, Photographer
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Dianna Russell, Photographer
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Springfield | MO | USA | Posted: 3:27 AM on 03.06.09 |
| ->> The more freedom we voluntarily give up, the less we'll have. |
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Kevin Leas, Photographer, Assistant
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Rochester | NY | USA | Posted: 8:14 AM on 03.06.09 |
->> Wow, we need some of your cops out here.
Last week, the cops were called for a house party near one of the local schools. But the hosts had been tipped off, so the cops drove by, saw nothing, and moved on. By morning, there was a kid dead from alcohol poisoning in the upstairs bedroom. You get three cops to search your car for reading a book, and we get nothing for underage drinking...*sigh*
But back on topic, I nearly had a similar event. For stand alone art, I'd occasionally head to playgrounds and get some shots of kids having fun. I'd always approach parents first, identify myself, and ask if it would be okay to take their kids' pictures. Well, at one playground, someone else's parents approached me while I was taking pictures of someone else's kids, and demanded to know what I was doing. She then gave me hell about how I was somehow being irresponsible and sketchy, and that I really shouldn't be doing that. One of the other photogs at that paper shared a one-up story about how he'd had the cops called on him while searching for standalone art, and I don't think he'd even gotten out of his car.
My point: I'm not sure that there's anything you can do to not look suspicious to those in the world who are paranoid about everything they see. |
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Chris Curry, Photographer
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Norfolk | VA | USA | Posted: 9:00 AM on 03.06.09 |
->> If you work as a photographer long enough you're going to raise some suspicions to someone no matter how careful you present yourself.
People are wary of those with cameras these days. It is interesting that Rob never brought out his camera and caused some much trouble. But what we do is voyeuristic by nature and so extra caution is required in order to do our job.
Events and sporting events it's natural to have cameras so the public is at ease. But in feature situations on the streets you really have to be cautious and always be ready to put someone at ease. |
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Joe Livingston, Photographer
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Dallas | GA | USA | Posted: 10:48 AM on 03.06.09 |
| ->> I sum it up as dealing with a paranoid America thats suspicious, uneducated (as far as our rights) and feels theres a major situation or catastrophe lurking around every corner. |
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John Bowersmith, Photographer
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Lubbock | Tx | USA | Posted: 10:51 AM on 03.06.09 |
->> The problem is, a lot of people refuse to let the police search their cars. Never do that. Always agree and add the phrase, "with a warrant." I have done this and it sucked up about 6 hours of my life while I was detained and the police obtained a warrant and searched my car. Then I was free to go. If ever you ask for a warrant and an officer says, "well since you asked for a warrant I'm going to take that as a refusal and now I have probable cause to search you anyway." Call a lawyer the first chance you get because your Constitutional rights have been violated and you stand to collect a large sum from the governing body employing the officer.
Asking for a warrant never equals probable cause. This is the same as asking for an evidence receipt when an officer tries to confiscate your possessions, ie: cameras etc. In many places it is the law that they must provide you with an evidence receipt because there are corrupt cops out there and after someone takes your camera, what proof do you have? I advised a friend to do that when his home was searched and police took his guns as evidence. The cops, with their combined 60 years of experience both said no one had ever asked for such a thing, looked into it, and then provided an evidence recipt.
Now, if I had somewhere to be and a quick search was the easy way out would I consent? Most likely. But I'm also the guy who got pulled over looking for weather art and got out to shoot what I needed while the cop wrote out my ticket. He was a nice guy and waited for me while I knelt in a culvert and did my work before asking me to sign my ticket. Try to explain "looking for weather art" to a cop sometime.
These are ideal situations and life is never ideal. I'm an ass and have been pretty lucky when being a jerk to police who pull me over for no good reason, in my perception. You have to pick your battles and Rob, I'm sorry someone thought you were punishing the bishop in your car, but I think you picked your battle well. And 911, really? Doesn't your town have a non-emergency number for public masterbaters, peeping Tom's and other things like that?
Just two examples of me making the wrong choice:
Cop in Florence, Texas, "Do you have any guns or drugs with you tonight?"
Me, "When is the last time someone answered 'yes' to that question?"
Cop in Albuquerque, NM at 3:00a.m., "Do you know why I've pulled you over?"
Me, "Yes, because it's 3:00 a.m. and you like to see if I'm drunk." |
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Dave Doonan, Photographer
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Kingston | TN | USA | Posted: 11:08 AM on 03.06.09 |
->> hooded sweatshirt and sunglasses
ala Unibomber |
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Dave Doonan, Photographer
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Kingston | TN | USA | Posted: 11:16 AM on 03.06.09 |
->> seriously, If they searched my car I would be taking photos of the whole process to use as evidence for a complaint. Video if possible. But be very cooperative. This happened Wednesday with an activist taking on the Roane County Sheriff' Office over the Ash pond spill. Ther are two interesting videos
watch both and discuss................
http://dirtycoaltva.blogspot.com/ |
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Aaron Rhoads, Photographer
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McComb | MS | USA | Posted: 11:26 AM on 03.06.09 |
| ->> These days....can you show your unemployment check stub in lieu of a press id. |
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Matt Kartozian, Photographer
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Scottsdale | AZ | USA | Posted: 12:10 PM on 03.06.09 |
| ->> Never consent to search. If they are asking it means they don't have probable cause and they are just fishing. |
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John Germ, Photographer
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Wadsworth | Oh | USA | Posted: 12:58 PM on 03.06.09 |
->> Let's not confuse the issue of probable cause. The probable cause in this case is related to the COMPLAINT, not the refusal of search. Of course the police were fishing. Surprisingly, that's how a vast majority of drug arrests occur. But I digress - if the police can justify a suspicion that some illegal activity MIGHT have been taking place in the car they can argue probable cause. That argument is going to cary more weight when it's based upon a complaint from a person. What will really drive you nuts is the concept they can bring a police dog to sniff the vehicle without any probable cause and without a warrant and if the dog reacts that's their probable cause.
So, the OP is likely correct - the complaint alone was probably enough for probable cause to detain and impound. And, once your car is impounded it is automatically searched. The laws may suck - but change the laws. This is different than a cop violating the law as demonstrated in several other threads.
Yes what happened here sucks. But I don't see where you'd find the police violated his rights. And, I'm betting had he refused he would have gone through exactly what he feared - because of THE COMPLAINT, not his refusal to the search.
Sadly, people are way too paranoid these days. Although as a father now maybe I'll become paranoid too taking my kid to the park (gotta stop watching Law and Order SVU) |
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John Germ, Photographer
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Wadsworth | Oh | USA | Posted: 1:25 PM on 03.06.09 |
| ->> self correction: probable cause requires a reasonable person to conclude an illegal act DID occur - not might. An important distinction. Always going to be a grey area because it's a judge's discretionary call. It would be the 'complaint' part that might sway me to, as the OP did, avoid the hassle. If I were simply pulled over for a traffic stop I would never consent to search. I guess for me things aren't black and white - I have to weigh my costs in the decision. And the 'complaint' part would likely have swayed me to the same decision. |
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Mark Smith, Photographer
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Elk City | OK | USA | Posted: 1:37 PM on 03.06.09 |
| ->> Someone calling the police and saying that someone else "seems" suspicious doesn't even come close to amounting to probable cause. If you want to avoid the potential of being detained against your will, I guess you can consent to a search. Frankly, there is simply no way I would ever consent to a search. I'd be respectful and courteous, but as of yet, we still don't live in a police state, so I'm going to decline the option of having total strangers rummage through my property. |
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John Germ, Photographer
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Wadsworth | Oh | USA | Posted: 1:41 PM on 03.06.09 |
| ->> Mark - your phrase was "seems suspicious". The phrase from the OP was "acting in a lewd and lascivious way". Those are two very different phrases. |
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Mark Smith, Photographer
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Elk City | OK | USA | Posted: 1:46 PM on 03.06.09 |
| ->> John, and it is still only a tip. If the officer doesn't find something that corroborates the tip, he does NOT have probable cause. I SERIOUSLY doubt that the words "acting in a lewd and lascivious way" were in a direct quote from the caller. That is legalese, and and I'd bet real money those were the cops words, not the callers. If a cop said that to me, my first question would be "What exactly did the caller say I was doing?" |
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Wesley R. Bush, Photographer
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Nashville | TN | U.S. | Posted: 2:01 PM on 03.06.09 |
| ->> They may have been having a problem with lewd behavior like some parks around here. Can't blame them for responding and who knows about the person who called police. Maybe contact some detectives and see if they have been having reports of it recently. If so, write a story about it. |
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Jeff Stanton, Photographer
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Princeton | IN | USA | Posted: 2:52 PM on 03.06.09 |
->> The whole episode sounds like a fishing expedition. And the term "lewd" is cop talk, not a caller to 911.
If you've viewed any of the ACLU videos on YouTube, you will learn that it's perfectly legal for the police to lie to you, but you can face charges for lying to them.
Rule 1: Keep your mouth shut
Rule 2; Never consent to a search
If you're worried you have an assignment you're going to miss or a search warrant is going to take up hours of your time, you better rethink that. These situations could go terribly wrong and you could land in jail. Those short hours or assignment you are worried about could seem like seconds compared to a lifetime. |
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Louis Lopez, Photographer
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Fontana | CA | USA | Posted: 2:55 PM on 03.06.09 |
->> Contact Member Dirk Dewacther http://www.sportsshooter.com/members.html?id=145
he has quite a bit of experience in these type of situations and could give you the best advice on how to handle it if it ever were to occur again. You might say he is an expert.
Might be worth an article for the newsletter from Dirk. |
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Matt Kartozian, Photographer
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Scottsdale | AZ | USA | Posted: 3:31 PM on 03.06.09 |
->> "The whole episode sounds like a fishing expedition."
That's why they ask for consent, many stupid criminals have been caught this. Its the same as when they ask if you have drugs on a traffic stop, or a traffic stop for going 67 in a 65, they are fishing.
If you don't give them consent to search, don't be rude, just politely decline with something like "I am not comfortable with you going through my personal belongings." |
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Ronnie Montgomery, Photographer
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Houston | TX | USA | Posted: 6:49 PM on 03.06.09 |
| ->> Wow Fish. You're good. Now you're predicting the future. Your blog is picking the iPhone app of the week for next May. |
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Mitchell Clinton, Photographer
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Carlsbad | CA | USA | Posted: 7:18 PM on 03.06.09 |
| ->> Good thing you were a photographer on break between jobs and not a clown on break between jobs! |
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Steven E. Frischling, Photographer
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Live HVN : Work SFO-NYC | | | Posted: 9:48 PM on 03.06.09 |
->> Ronnie,
Clearly you are not reading my dates correctly. The date is 05/03/2009, 5-March-2009. All the dates on my blog are day/month/year.
I wrote up the piece on Tuesday and set it to post yesterday, as I generally post write my App of the Week on Thursdays, and had been playing with the App two weeks prior to Rob Dicker's incident, the timing of that App being posted is coincidental.
...for posts made in May the dates will be XX/05/2009. |
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Jim Colburn, Photo Editor, Photographer
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McAllen | TX | USA | Posted: 10:17 PM on 03.06.09 |
->> "If a cop asked to search my car I would say sure..."
Then you've already given up your right to stop them from searching.
It's all about some asshat calling the cops to report your "suspicious" behavior, thanks to the Bush climate-of-fear, and the cops getting all gestapo on you.
Stand your ground. Refuse their "request" for a search. Take names, take numbers.
Sue.
This is the United States Of America. |
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Steve Ueckert, Photographer
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Houston | TX | | Posted: 3:20 AM on 03.07.09 |
->> "If a cop asked to search my car I would say sure..."
Then you've already given up your right to stop them from searching.
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
What right do you have to stop them from searching?
If a LEO wants to search your vehicle, they will. But you have a right to insist they first get a warrant if you otherwise have not been arrested and charged with a crime. |
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Jim Colburn, Photo Editor, Photographer
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McAllen | TX | USA | Posted: 10:13 AM on 03.07.09 |
->> "What right do you have to stop them from searching?"
By saying "Sure" you've given them permission to conduct a search and I doubt if any court would accept an "I changed my mind" as valid. |
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Nic Summers, Photographer
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