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Wow, Lebovitz "pawns" her photos!
Justin Edmonds, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Chicago | IL | USA | Posted: 11:59 PM on 02.24.09 |
| ->> I read The NY Times article as well and have to say that it was a very interesting read to say the least. It's crazy to see how the economy is affecting even some of the best in the industry. |
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Ian L. Sitren, Photographer
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Palm Springs | CA | USA | Posted: 12:04 AM on 02.25.09 |
->> "Pawned" seems like an excessive choice of words. Pledged, mortgaged, etc seems more like it. More than one music star has done the same with their work or the rights to their collections.
It seems like there has been some sniping at her lately, something about wanting to see the successful fail is somewhat of an American past time.
In this case it is probably a matter of bad money management and the economy. Even Annie herself admitted in one of her books that it was somewhat of an embarrassment that while she was shooting an American Express ad campaign she didn't have card because she didn't qualify. But under the circumstances they gave her one anyway.
But it should be noted that she kept the rights to her images so they had the value to borrow against. She didn't work cheap and wasn't trying to chase the lowest bid and sell 8x10's for $9.95. |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 12:10 AM on 02.25.09 |
| ->> Ian, with all due respect. What this says in black and white, pink and purple, whatever you want to use...for the most part our "art" even at the top end is not respected. I mean please Lebovitz has been an icon in the biz.....and the rest of us mortals are supposed to have hope? |
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David Harpe, Photographer
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Dirk Dewachter, Photographer
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Playa Del Rey | CA | USA | Posted: 1:39 AM on 02.25.09 |
->> No it doesn't mean we don't respect her as an artist but what it means is that somebody did not manage her finances correctly and she got in over her head and has to mortgage something of value.
This american mentality of spending money you don't have is finally catching up with a lot of people. Math seemed to be a hated subject in high school for the last couple of decades but it is essential. We all should live by a budget and when times get though you start cutting the unnecessary spending, obviously Annie Lebovitz and the liberal democrats don't seem to understand that.
The lesson to be learned here is live within your means regardless of who you are. |
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Jim Comeau, Assistant, Photo Editor
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Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 2:01 AM on 02.25.09 |
| ->> Sounds like when Michael Jackson had to "pawn" the Northern Songs collection (early Beatles) when he ran into financial trouble a few years ago. |
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Thomas B. Shea, Photographer
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Pearland/Houston | TX | USA | Posted: 2:59 AM on 02.25.09 |
| ->> WOW!! WOW!! WOW!! I will keep my day job shooting. |
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Corey Perrine, Photographer
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Hudson | NH | USA | Posted: 5:35 AM on 02.25.09 |
->> "I mean please Lebovitz has been an icon in the biz.....and the rest of us mortals are supposed to have hope?"
Yes. We do have hope. Why? Because talent and money management are two different things.
Talent brings you money, common sense helps you to keep money. |
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David Harpe, Photographer
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Louisville | KY | USA | Posted: 7:36 AM on 02.25.09 |
->> It's not her fault.
You just...don't...mess...with...The...Queen...of...England. |
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David Harpe, Photographer
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Louisville | KY | USA | Posted: 7:39 AM on 02.25.09 |
->> Hey! Just thought of this...
Did Anne Lebovitz shop at Ritz and work at the Chronicle at one time?
Maybe The Queen is doing some Mafia-style payback for that little "hat" incident. |
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Walter Calahan, Photographer
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Westminster | MD | USA | Posted: 7:43 AM on 02.25.09 |
| ->> If Leibovitz signed the Condé Nast contract, she doesn't have full rights to her work made for Condé Nast publications. |
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Eric Canha, Photographer
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Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 8:52 AM on 02.25.09 |
->> Dirk all due respect.........
"the liberal democrats don't seem to understand that"
You REALLY don't want to go there. |
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Shawn Lynch, Photographer, Assistant
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New York / Boston | NY/MA | USA | Posted: 8:52 AM on 02.25.09 |
->> The scariest part is where it says that she gave up the rights to all her photographic work ever created AND any work to be created in the future! Wow.
From the article:
For her $5 million loan, Ms. Leibovitz put up as collateral a country house in Rhinebeck, N.Y., three town houses in Greenwich Village and all “copyrights ... photographic negatives ... contract rights” existing or to be created in the future, according to a loan document filed with the City Register’s Office in December. |
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Harrison Shull, Photographer
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Fayetteville, WV | Asheville, NC | | Posted: 9:02 AM on 02.25.09 |
->> "three town houses in Greenwich Village..."
C'mon! Who really needs three homes in the same tony neighborhood AND a country house. I am guessing, though, that these are not rentals and Annie does not moonlight as a landlord. Could be wrong though...
Wish I could summon more pity for folks who have leveraged their talent to high paying careers while blindly leveraging themselves to creditors.
If there is to be a silver lining to the current economic woes we face - maybe it will be that the era of conspicuous consumption is over and Americans will get back to living within their means. The new wealth status symbol will be living debt free - not the big house, fancy cars, and other frivolities. |
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Bob Ford, Photographer
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Lehighton | Pa | USA | Posted: 9:40 AM on 02.25.09 |
->> The article was very interesting.
According to the article she is giving up, “copyrights ... photographic negatives ... contract rights, existing or to be created in the future".
How does she plan to repay the loan losing all of this income? |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 9:45 AM on 02.25.09 |
| ->> With agreements like that (in Bob's post) she has a great future in newspaper management..David, now THAT was funny. |
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Debra L Rothenberg, Photographer
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New York | NY | USA | Posted: 10:40 AM on 02.25.09 |
->> OUCH
50 Most Loathsome New Yorkers
By Staff
If you want to get shocked and awed by mail, ask New York Press readers who they hate. For the last two issues, we've passed the mic to the people for their thoughts on our first annual 50 Most Loathsome New Yorkers list, and an avalanche of ill will ensued. We'd need a Top 200 list to include every loathed local recommended to us, but we'd at least like to mention some of the more popular names. We were urged to include Pataki, Bloomberg, Giuliani, both New York senators, Press figures like Russ Smith and Alan Cabal, Ben Affleck, J-Lo and some guy who works at the city's main library. We got votes for people's neighbors, herpes and even one for the New York ghost of Bobby Valentine.
By what criteria did we prepare the final list? Loathsome, yes, but we were looking for people who were loathsome in an especially New York way. Thus Ben Affleck, who received many, many votes and may even have a part-time Manhattan mailing address, remains very much a Hollywood asshole. Yet Martha Stewart, who heads out to either Connecticut or Long Island after a hard day of being a bitch, handily makes the list.
We'd like to thank everyone who took the time to suggest their favorite loathsome New Yorker. The two top Readers' Poll winners are acknowledged in the following pages.
20 Annie Leibovitz, Celebrity Photographer
By all accounts insufferable and lacking in a single interesting photograph taken since the Koch administration. Leibovitz began as the vessel of celebrity vanity, and she proves that one can catch some serious diseases after years of that kind of contact. Specifically, you might catch nannius interruptus, whereinas the folks at Page Six would have it you leave your longtime lover after you have a baby and a cute younger gal to care for it. No wonder Susan Sontag's a democrat. This wouldn't happen at government daycare camps. But even beyond those nasty rumors, Leibovitz is a douchebag diva with an entourage bigger than the celebrities she photographs.
In addition, she wanted to buy the townhouse next to hers in greenwich Village from her neighbors, who did not want to sell and she made life so hell for them that they had no other choice than to move |
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Colin Lenton, Photographer
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Philadelphia | PA | United States | Posted: 11:05 AM on 02.25.09 |
->> Bob, she hasn't lost any income by borrowing against her negatives/rights etc.
What she puts up only secures the loan, in other words only if she defaults on her payments will she lose all of her negatives. At which point, the company who gave her the loan would sell them to the highest bidder, presumably recouping some, if not all of the money she owes them. |
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Walter Calahan, Photographer
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Westminster | MD | USA | Posted: 12:16 PM on 02.25.09 |
->> "liberal democrats don't seem to understand that."
Oh yes they do.
Remember it was Republican Dick Cheney who said that Republican Ronald Reagan proved "deficits do not matter."
The evidence of the 1990s is when Democrat Bill Clinton started paying off our debts, the economy strengthened. Since 2001 Republican George Bush and the Republican dominated Congress took on huge debts and the economy weakened. This same thing happened in the late 1920s leading to the Great Depression. Then it took a 'liberal democrat' FDR to lead the nation out of the mess created by the Republicans.
See why Eric is correct, you don't want to go there. |
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N. Scott Trimble, Photographer
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Lake Oswego | OR | USA | Posted: 12:30 PM on 02.25.09 |
| ->> Leibovitz sounds more like the problem MC Hammer fell into by Debra's posting of the article, the vicious circle of having an entourage and staying ahead of it to feed it. Although, I wonder how much the Hanna Montana stuff might have hurt her last year? |
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Corey Perrine, Photographer
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Hudson | NH | USA | Posted: 1:11 PM on 02.25.09 |
->> Scott,
Let's just hope she doesn't end up in a Cash 4 Gold commercial like MC Hammer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRVzF9dBl7c
Lebiovitz: "My gold Leica, Ta-dow!" |
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Kevin Seifert, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 8:18 PM on 02.25.09 |
->> "The artist, 59, has become so concerned with her mounting debt, accumulated on properties she inherited in 2004 after the death of her lover Susan Sontag, she has turned to a company that lends money with fine art as collateral."
I don't think she is making bad business decisions. In reality the opposite is true. Only a few of her works are worth 10M Pounds (US$20M) to secure the loan. The bank is valuing her works as prized art.
Leibovitz is leveraging wealth, not filing for bankruptcy. |
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Jim Colburn, Photo Editor, Photographer
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McAllen | TX | USA | Posted: 11:45 AM on 02.26.09 |
->> " "Pawned" seems like an excessive choice of words. Pledged, mortgaged, etc seems more like it. More than one music star has done the same with their work or the rights to their collections."
"Pawned" is probably closer to the truth, as is indentured servant...
She's got a loan and has to pay interest, if she defaults on the loan the firm that lent it gets all of her stuff. They can keep it, sell it or give it away. All of it. In a mortgage the bank takes your house, sells it, takes what you own and then has to give you the rest back (if your house is worth more than the loan).
What's really awful is that they get all the rights to all of her future work... |
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Jim Colburn, Photo Editor, Photographer
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McAllen | TX | USA | Posted: 11:50 AM on 02.26.09 |
->> "...obviously Annie Lebovitz and the liberal democrats don't seem to understand that..."
You mean "...obviously Annie Lebovitz, George W. Bush and all of his Republican friends (that have spent us into a depression)...", don't you?
The Democrats are the ones that get us OUT of depressions that the Republicans get us INTO. |
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Walter Calahan, Photographer
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Westminster | MD | USA | Posted: 12:07 PM on 02.26.09 |
->> "What's really awful is that they get all the rights to all of her future work..."
Sounds like companies that loan money to celebrates have learned a lot from the 'Mob", or more accurately, the Devil. HA!
Jim
You better watch what you say about Republicans. It is Un-American to criticize Republicans, you know. The only Americans one can criticize are the Democrats. This is another thing Ronald Reagan taught us, or was it Bob Hope? Grin.
So expect to get as many 'Huh?s' and 'Off Topics' as I got above. Or if you are lucky, even more than I got. I see them as notches in my gun belt. Unfortunately I'll never be good enough to get over one hundred 'Huh?s' That takes true talent. |
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David Seelig, Photographer
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Hailey | ID | USA | Posted: 2:01 PM on 02.26.09 |
| ->> I met Annie Lebovitz in the muid 80's at a Ramones concert at the old Ritz. I was introduced to her by my agent Virginia Lohle. She was warm and very nice, to a younger and admiring photographer. NY Press is not exactly the last word in journalism and too many people think it is cool to put other people down. |
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Mike Morelock, Photographer
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Greenwood | AR | USA | Posted: 6:04 PM on 02.26.09 |
->> Good lord, I almost posted something in a photography website thread on politics. I need to get outside and take some pictures.
PS, being able to borrow 15mm against your photos means someone respects your art. |
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Manuello Paganelli, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 7:29 PM on 02.26.09 |
->> I really dont know where to begin :)But this comment is way too funny "
"...obviously Annie Lebovitz and the liberal democrats don't seem to understand that..." Lets see WMD, Katrina, $5 per gas, Fear, Worse Economic ever, Torture, Crimes against humanity... Hmmm someone pls remind me as to why the Reps lost big time.
David Seelig "She was warm and very nice.." You are the first and ONLY person I ever heard saying that re Annie :)
Walter "If Leibovitz signed the Condé Nast contract, she doesn't have full rights to her work..." I had never signed anything with Conde Nasty and I AM SURE Annie has either.
But this is what I wanted to write which I also posted on EP today.
Folks I am fortunate to be healthy and with a diversify range of clients be able to pay my mortgage but I sure as hell dont want to have any chuckles over someone's pain or bad biz practices specially during this cruel period.
Today, and I dont give a damn if she is arrogant, nasty or bitchie, is happening to someone as brilliant and talented as Annie. NEXT DAY it could be you or me.
Mistakes and bad decisions happens to the very best. Just ask all those wise wealthy folks, including top Hollywood names, and the many long hardworking retired Jewish elderly folks that lost most of their lifesaving's to Bernard L. Madoff.
So really why have any chuckles due to someone else misery & pain?
I know that all sinners sooner or later get their commeuppance but in all honesty who is willing to cast that first stone?
Manuello Paganelli
www.ManuelloPaganelli.com
LOS ANGELES CALIFORNIA |
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Paul Morse, Photographer
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Washington | DC | United States | Posted: 9:12 PM on 02.26.09 |
| ->> From an AP story today: "The $1.75 trillion deficit projected for this year would represent 12.3 percent of the gross domestic product, double the previous post-war record of 6 percent in 1983, when Ronald Reagan was president, and the highest level since the deficit totaled 21.5 percent of GDP in 1945, at the end of World War II." |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 9:34 PM on 02.26.09 |
| ->> those folks that gave manuello a "huh" need to have their lobotomy reversed |
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Ian L. Sitren, Photographer
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Palm Springs | CA | USA | Posted: 9:58 PM on 02.26.09 |
| ->> I am with Manuello on this one. By the way the new issue of American Photo is an "Annie Leibovitz" issue. Good stuff! |
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Walter Calahan, Photographer
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Westminster | MD | USA | Posted: 10:05 PM on 02.26.09 |
->> Manuello
How are you sure she hasn't signed a contract with Condé Nast? She told you personally? I've heard from people who know her better than I ever will, that she does have a contract that pays far better than anyone here gets in their dayrate.
Whenever one sees a picture shot by Irving Penn made for Condé Nast, Condé Nast gets equal credit on the byline when published outside a Condé Nast publication. This means he has signed a contact. When Leibozitz pictures that are taken for Condé Nast get published outside of their family of magazines, the same duel credit is given for her work.
If you reread my post, it beings with "IF". That make it a questioning sentence, not a definitive statement.
Now here's an interesting comment about Ms. Leibovitz's financial problems worth thinking about:
Many press reports are tracing the photog's money woes to 2004, when her partner Susan Sontag died and left her more properties and debt than she could handle. Certainly, the added financial pressure put her over the edge, and you have to wonder how things might have been different had Sontag and Leibovitz been granted the property rights and benefits that heterosexual couples get.
Of course, Manuello, I'm not saying the above information is true. So please don't cast any more stones at me. Simply sharing some of the content of an e-mail I received today.
I have met Ms. Leibovitz three time. Each time she was warm and nice to me. |
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Manuello Paganelli, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 11:15 PM on 02.26.09 |
->> Walter academia is making you soft... Those were not stones at all :)
Yes she does have a special contract or the same way the GREAT Walter Iooss has one with S.I.
B ut when it comes to ownership of her ©, Unless that had changed, it stays with her. That privy info came to me yrs ago from a Condé Nast photo editor who I worked with.
YOU are the second photographer today that had described Annie in those warm terms. I never met her but what I keep hearing is the opposite. So is good to hear good things about her personality.
Also having dual credit "Condé byline" usually comes from covers or major stories. Which is what she and the iconic Mr. Penn do well. It also gives them extra protection & tons of attorneys behind them from anyone that infringes on their images.
Regardless, I hate to see some folks in here kicking someone while they are down specially when it comes to financial errors or human mistakes.
More 2 come
www.ManuelloPaganelli.com |
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Walter Calahan, Photographer
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Westminster | MD | USA | Posted: 7:45 AM on 02.27.09 |
->> Nothing soft here. Firm and manly.
My students throw more stones in one class than you do Manuello. HA! |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 8:51 AM on 02.27.09 |
| ->> damn whippersnappers!! |
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Jim Colburn, Photo Editor, Photographer
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McAllen | TX | USA | Posted: 12:33 PM on 02.27.09 |
->> "The $1.75 trillion deficit projected for this year would represent 12.3 percent of the gross domestic product, double the previous post-war record of 6 percent in 1983, when Ronald Reagan was president"
Carter didn't f**k things up anywhere NEAR as badly as Bush did...
And Carter could speak in complete sentences. |
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Jim Colburn, Photo Editor, Photographer
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McAllen | TX | USA | Posted: 12:34 PM on 02.27.09 |
| ->> Annie had/has a contract with Conde Nast that I've heard runs $1,000,000 a year. |
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Manuello Paganelli, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 2:22 PM on 02.27.09 |
->> Walter like girly manly or manly man :)
Never met anybody from Montana being soft.
Colburn when I run from congress you will be my speech writer YODAMAN!
More 2 Come
www.ManuelloPaganelli.com |
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Jeff Martin, Photographer
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wellington | OH | usa | Posted: 5:41 PM on 02.27.09 |
| ->> Ha, we need more incumbents to "run from congress." |
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Walter Calahan, Photographer
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Westminster | MD | USA | Posted: 6:38 PM on 02.27.09 |
->> Jeff
In the past we've had too many cucumbers in Congress. Grin. |
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Bryan Hulse, Photographer
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Nashville | Tn | USA | Posted: 9:30 PM on 02.27.09 |
->> "The evidence of the 1990s is when Democrat Bill Clinton started paying off our debts, the economy strengthened."
Ah yes, Mr. Bill, in his genius, was solely responsible for the boom years created by the tech boom. What a guy!
Didn't Al Gore invent the internet too?
"Since 2001 Republican George Bush and the Republican dominated Congress took on huge debts and the economy weakened."
The latest events by the current president and congress pretty much PALE the 'huge debts', waste and spending of the last administration. Probably not a good point to make at this point.
I am not saying it was right then and wrong now, I'm saying both administrations are increasing government and spending WAY too much. If the path of the last administration was an out of control car going down hill, we have now gone over the cliff.
"This same thing happened in the late 1920s leading to the Great Depression. Then it took a 'liberal democrat' FDR to lead the nation out of the mess created by the Republicans."
Wow! That's not how I remembered all of that. History courses must have changed since I was in school back in the dark ages. The recovery from the FDR disaster came from the boom of WWII in the history books I read, er, slept through.
Oh wait, I thought we weren't going there?
Truthfully, the right and left can spit on each other all day long and it doesn't do much good. This is a country divided and I don't see it getting much better. I own an evil, capitalist small business, so you can guess which side I represent. Oh, but capitalism doesn't work any more.
"It is Un-American to criticize Republicans, you know. The only Americans one can criticize are the Democrats."
Who is whining about that now? The Dems won! And you still aren't happy? You need to watch Saturday Night Live, or Bill Mahr, or the Colber Report, or Keith Oberman. Don't worry, both sides get in their shots. But hey, let's censor the right anyway (Fairness Doctrine).
Love you man! |
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Walter Calahan, Photographer
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Westminster | MD | USA | Posted: 10:01 PM on 02.27.09 |
->> Bryan
Your history book sounds like it was written, or at least read, by Rush Limbaugh.
I'm quite happy regardless of all the idiots in Washington DC. I do not draw my happiness from them.
And none of us really and truly have to watch any TV ever in our life. The TV machine is simply to put money into the pockets of Corporate America. Corporate America has one interest, and one interest alone, which has nothing to do with the Fairness Doctrine, and that interests is to make money. They are not interested in promoting anything else.
Other than Teddy Roosevelt, Lincoln is my favorite President because he truly understood the American people. You can fool some of the people all of the time.
Now, let's get back to the $2 trillion George Bush the Paler gave to the American Banking Industry before President Obama took office and ask for less than a trillion dollars to rebuild roads, bridges, schools, etc.
Taking on huge debt to conduct a war didn't work for LBJ when he ran the Vietnam War on the cheap, so who thought we could sustain this country by borrowing from the Chinese (selling them US backed Treasury Bonds) to conduct the Iraq War? Dick Cheney?
It took Nixon to open China, but George W. Bush to sell America to the Chinese.
And Al Gore never said he invented the Internet. That is an urban lie. And no, President Bill Clinton didn't do it solely, he actually got a lot of help from the Republicans in Congress.
Politics! I love the smell of napalm in the morning. Just don't trust anything you need in a high school history book. They are all dumbed down to fulfill the standards of the politically run Texas State Board of Education.
But getting back to the original thread, Annie Leibovitz can careless what we write here. Grin. |
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David Seelig, Photographer
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Hailey | ID | USA | Posted: 10:50 PM on 02.27.09 |
| ->> By the time of WW11 the country was in much better shape then when it crashed in 1929 ww11 for us did not start till dec 7 1941. |
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Walter Calahan, Photographer
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Bryan Hulse, Photographer
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Nashville | Tn | USA | Posted: 12:13 AM on 02.28.09 |
->> Like I said before, it's pointless arguing. As the video shows, either side can make arguments and present video clips and quotes to make the other side look like morons. I had another rant prepared, but why bother? This post isn't about politics, and my response certainly isn't about sports.
Regarding your point, "I'm quite happy regardless of all the idiots in Washington DC. I do not draw my happiness from them", I agree. In fact, most of us get along great when we don't bring up politics.
Oh, and to those that marked my comments as inappropriate, send me a private email and I'll share my thoughts with you on how I feel about little cowards sitting behind computers. |
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David Harpe, Photographer
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Jim Comeau, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 7:52 PM on 07.30.09 |
| ->> Mr. Harpe, the topic at hand is politics, not Annie Leibovitz' financial situation... haha, good to know people are still covering this stuff instead of what kind of beers are being consumed at the White House this afternoon. |
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Mike Brice, Photographer
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Ogden | UT | USA | Posted: 8:03 PM on 07.30.09 |
->> Well the courts will decide who is correct, but I can't imagine the lender would go after her if she was making the payments on time.
A lender makes money when the borrower pays back according to the schedule and with interest. If they have to liquidate, typically, the deal is a loss for the lender.
Looks like another example of a star - whether it is athletics, art, music, movies, etc.. - that lacked good financial sense.
I wonder after the second or third house if she thought, "Wow, this stuff really adds up. I wonder if I can pay for it?" |
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