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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Little workflow help.
William Purnell, Photographer
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Wichita | Ks | | Posted: 10:33 PM on 01.04.09 |
->> I'm going crazy with my workflow. I'd appreciate a little input or help from you more experienced guys.
The problem is the time it takes for me to get my magazine submissions ready. I now find myself shooting 2 or 3 games a week in which I spend about 3hrs per game editing and preparing an average of 15 to 30 images for the magazine.
This is my normal workflow.
1. I download the images from the card into a folder in lightroom where I can sort the images. This is usually anywhere from 300 to 400 images per game.
2. I go through and trash all the obvious, out of focus, bad aim, very out of exposure etc etc.
3. I then export the images left into folders to archive the original raw unedited shots.
4. I go through the images in lighroom and grade them by color, first yellow with all the good action/potentially usable shots.
5. I go back through all the yellow coded images and select the best ones and add green code to them, usually selecting the final 10 to 30 shots the magazine wants.
6. I then take these green images into the develop area of lightroom to make my basic adjustments, white balance, exposure, cropping, contrast etc.
7. I then export the finished green images to a folder as PSD's to be opened in photoshop.
8. In PS I then run them through as a batch in Noiseware (if needed).
9. I then go through each picture one by one and run an action I made to convert to CYMK, and opens the basica adjustments I need to fix to correct the colors from the CYMK conversion. Usually saturation, curves, and selective color to "pop" the blacks.
10. I then save the image to a "final" folder as a 8bit jpg.
11. After I go through the final 10 to 30 images like this, I take the "finals" folder and burn it to a CD for the magazine, then I do my normal archiving of the final images.
Please any input, tips or suggestions on what I'm doing would be greatly appreciated. Its killing me spending so much time getting images ready for submission with the number of assignments increasing. |
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N. Scott Trimble, Photographer
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Lake Oswego | OR | USA | Posted: 11:08 PM on 01.04.09 |
| ->> I hope you are charging extra to do the CMYK! |
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William Purnell, Photographer
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Wichita | Ks | | Posted: 11:17 PM on 01.04.09 |
->> No, should I be? I thought that was just part of making MY images look their best when they were going to print.
The CYMK conversion, and the subsequent adjustments after the conversion, I was told were a benifit to making my images look better if the final output was magazine press printing. Is this accurate? |
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Michael Clark, Photographer
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Santa Fe | NM | USA | Posted: 1:18 AM on 01.05.09 |
->> William I could point out several issues with your workflow the least of which is using colors to edit images with - colors are confusing at best and leave you with few options down the road while stars are much easier to work with.
I know this will seem self-serving, but I have an e-book I sell on my website that details my entire workflow from camera to Lightroom and beyond. It will clear up a lot of the issues you are having and is a solid piece that is also recommended by Adobe. Here is the link for that e-book:
http://www.michaelclarkphoto.com/workflow.html
It goes for $24.95 and is a a good deal. You can read more about it at the link above. I think you might find it very helpful to dial in your workflow. Just thought I'd post this as an option for you here. |
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Larz Schwartz, Photographer
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Chandler | AZ | USA | Posted: 1:22 AM on 01.05.09 |
->> Michael,
I just recently purchased Photo Mechanic and am using colors to edit. Why would stars be easier to work with?
I do not use Lightroom if that matters.
Take care, Larz |
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Michael Clark, Photographer
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Santa Fe | NM | USA | Posted: 1:27 AM on 01.05.09 |
->> I'd suggest letting your magazine client (or better yet, their printer) do the CMYK conversions unless they don't have a clue. The reality is only the printer really knows how to do accurate CMYK conversions unless the magazine has a dedicated printer in house. Unless they are National Geographic they don't have an in-house printer.
Also, processing and editing images takes time. That is just the reality of digital, especially if you are shooting RAW. You should be charging for the time you spend in front of your computer working up images. That is a great place to make extra money on an assignment. I'm sure you are but you might also check out editorial photographers "Digital Manifesto" on digital processing fees - available on their website here:
http://www.editorialphoto.com/outreachep/digital_manifesto.asp
My apologies if this is way too much info.... |
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Michael Clark, Photographer
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Santa Fe | NM | USA | Posted: 1:31 AM on 01.05.09 |
->> Larz -
Colors are (in my experience) very limiting when you edit. If you use stars you can edit in steps and increase the star rating for the better images. Then once you are done you can color code your images according to where they need to go like a stock agency, magazine client, website,etc. Once the image are rated with stars you can just filter for the highest star rating.
It has been my experience that using colors to code images is confusing - especially years later when you go back to find an image for a stock sale, and you have forgotten which color was your AAA "hold the phone" selects.
Just my two cents... |
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Larz Schwartz, Photographer
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Chandler | AZ | USA | Posted: 3:01 AM on 01.05.09 |
->> Mike good points and that makes sense.
I might have to work on switching to stars then.
Thanks for the explanation.
Larz |
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Patrick Fallon, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Columbia | MO | USA | Posted: 5:35 AM on 01.05.09 |
->> Colors in PM are keys. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8.... corresponding to a color.. honestly you use it enough and it becomes second nature. Pink, Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Light Blue, Blue, Gray [Trash]. That the "Order." Using it vs. stars does not really matter, but I like the colors more as it is easier to see in a contact sheet vs. small stars. Pink and reds stand out when browsing through chronologically.
My thoughts, having used PM for 4 years. |
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William Purnell, Photographer
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Wichita | Ks | | Posted: 8:04 AM on 01.05.09 |
->> Michael, Thanks and to me there is no such thing as "too much information".
And no I dont charge extra for the infront of the computer work, I always thought it was just part of the job.
And no the magazine does not have an in house printer, and as far as I can tell they just print the images as they are given them.
Several of my fellow photographers just shoot jpg and give the original unedited file to the magazine as soon as its downloaded from the camera, and to me it appears thats exactly how they are often printed. |
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Nigel Farrow, Photographer
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Suffolk | UK | United Kingdom | Posted: 8:56 AM on 01.05.09 |
->> William - To me you seem to be doing your initial editing back to front. If you can tag as many possibles as you shoot then I am assuming once your images have been ingested Lightroom will allow you to instantly colour code or rate all tagged images. Depending on your clients needs you can then look through the neighbouring files for better and the remaining files for alternatives. Then do your main edit from the selection produced.
Nothing to stop you tagging for trash as you go but I find this process puts me into the editing immediately. Once immediate clients have been supplied I will remove the images I class as trash and search through the remainder in my own time for any other files I require for my archives.
I accept this workflow works for me but may not be suitable for anybody else.
Thanks Michael for the suggestion re using stars especially as I have been working with how to categorise images for later uses. Definitely worth looking into, though I admit to being like Patrick and finding colours easier to "read". (Coloured stars anybody ?)
For those using a combination of PhotoMechanic and a RAW editor such as Bridge do be aware that the colours and ratings may not be directly compatible and may require an adjustment of Preferences depending on which software you are using.
As an example Color Class 1 in PhotoMechanic equals 6 in Bridge. I understand from Kirk at Camerabits that these have to be exactly the same so probably best for those using colours to settle on the basics such as red, yellow, green, blue etc.
With regards to finding an image at a later date the best idea is to set up an always used system now. Whilst this can be tweaked for new developments the basics should always remain the same so they become second nature.
I would also suggest that if your ingest software allows, you embed the original filename in the IPTC fields to help tracing originals easier should the need arise at a later date. For PhotoMechanic I use {date}{filename} embedding the caption before renaming files. |
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Doug Thompson, Photographer
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Floyd | VA | | Posted: 9:09 AM on 01.05.09 |
->> Those of us who used to shoot in the days of silver oxide and darkroom chemicals remember when publications paid freelancers different fees if we delivered undeveloped film or if we processed and printed the shots ourselves.
Publications should be paying for talent and time. We're paid to deliver a product. That payment should reflect the time we spend preparing the final product, not just shooting the image.
Of course, in these days of rights-robbing work-for-hire contracts, finding a publication that agrees is not always easy. |
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Fj Hughes, Photographer, Assistant
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Baltimore | MD | USA | Posted: 11:47 AM on 01.05.09 |
->> Initially it seems like the basics of your workflow are sound but I am sure that there are ways to streamline to save you time and money. In step 3 you mentioned exporting files into folders to archive the original shots. I am curious about this as it seems to be an extra and possibly redundant step. Could you be more specific. There might be better ways to perfom this step within Lightroom. Also, it seems that the bulk of your time is probably spent working in Photoshop. As mentioned above, CMYK conversion is usually best performed by the printer or as a billable service by the photographer or retoucher. I feel ultimately you are concerned about the quality of your images in reproduction. Your client may actually appreciate the image quality you supply and be willing to pay for it. If not, it is up to you whether the cost in time of converting the images is worth while. You have taken the right step by automating as much of this as you can with actions. If this step can be completely automated to your satisfaction, Lightroom 2 allows you to run actions during export. Also, as opposed to creating and exporting PSD files to a folder, have you tried to export your images directly from Lightroom to Photoshop. It may save you some time not having to export and then reopen each file in Photoshop.
You may want to make sure that Lightroom is running as quickly as possible. Here is a link to an article by Michael with some suggestions on this.
http://www.oreillynet.com/digitalmedia/blog/2007/03/five_ways_to_speed_up_l...
Lightroom also slows down when your catalog gets to big.
I agree with Michael that stars are the most intuitive way to rate images for you and your client. For more on this, I would recommend reading "The DAM Book:Digital Asset Management for Photographers" by Peter Krogh.
I have to say that 3 hrs of post from start to finish doesn't seem like an inordinately long time. Especially considering the conversion work you are performing in Photoshop. Remember, in the end, your time is worth something and you should ultimately be compensated for it. |
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Michael Clark, Photographer
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Santa Fe | NM | USA | Posted: 11:51 AM on 01.05.09 |
->> William -
I would highly recommend reading that editorial photographers article as it will help you set up a pricing structure to charge your clients for digital processing. That is a huge part of our income these days. I charge anywhere from a minimum of $175 (if that is all I can get) to a more normal number for a one day or half day magazine assignment of $350. For large assignments I charge $500 per day of shooting just for a Digital Processing Fee. It adds up fast and in many cases can help out with the bottom line when clients are paying so little for editorial day rates. |
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Michael Clark, Photographer
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William Purnell, Photographer
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Wichita | Ks | | Posted: 2:15 PM on 01.05.09 |
->> Thanks again Micheal and everyone else. I guess it comes down to deciding if I want MY images to be presented in their best possible way or not.
And in regards to why I archive the unedited originals, because often I have parents ask if I have anymore images of their kids that the magazine didnt use. And I sell them. Also the magazine at times goes back and requests me to ID other players in the shots, and often the series before or after the submitted images holds invaluable clues.
I will read the provided info and see if I can streemline a little more, and you guys are right the real time is in the sorting and in PS, but I cant see anyway past the sorting, it just takes time to weed through 300-500 shots. |
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