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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
5D MK2 / LIGHTROOM 2 / CS3 ??
Dan Bannister, Photographer
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Calgary | AB | Canada | Posted: 6:51 PM on 12.29.08 |
->> I'm picking up a new 5D tomorrow and was wondering if I should expect trouble with CS3. I remember the last time a new camera came out at the same time as CS2 was being upgraded to CS3, Adobe forced me to upgrade if i wanted to see the Canon raw files in Bridge.
Right now, I use Lightroom 2 to process my images and open them in CS3 for any editing, re saving them as Canon Raw files so, the question is, will CS3 support full usage of the 5D MK2 Files?
Many thanks,
Dan |
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Todd Spoth, Photographer, Student/Intern
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Houston | TX | USA | Posted: 7:06 PM on 12.29.08 |
->> yes.
lightroom has updated, osx has updated, ACR has updated. you should be good to go.
i use lightroom then into cs4 and use the folder level preview in leopard and im all good with CS2's out of my mark II so you used be fine. |
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Robert Caplin, Photographer
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New York | NY | USA | Posted: 7:08 PM on 12.29.08 |
->> I had to upgrade to CS4 to open my 5d2 RAW files.
Super lame. |
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Dan Bannister, Photographer
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Calgary | AB | Canada | Posted: 7:25 PM on 12.29.08 |
->> Just so I'm clear, CS3 will not allow you to see Canon 5D MK2 RAW files?
Does anyone have a problem with this? Other than using Canons software to convert the files, is there any way to shoot Canon 5DMK2 files and not be forced to upgrade to an new version of Photoshop?
If I'm correct, this means that I will not have the functionality of opening a RAW file from LR2 into CS3, manipulating it and saving it back to LR2 as a RAW file. I'll have to use LR2 to convert it to a TIFF and then open it in Photoshop CS3.
Someone should make this illegal. Adobe is really getting away with something here by forcing you to upgrade yet again just because Canon has released a new camera. I can't believe that the 5DMK2 RAW files are any different than the 5D files, why would you have to upgrade to open them?
Do I really have this right? |
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Wes Hope, Photographer
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Maryville | TN | USA | Posted: 8:20 PM on 12.29.08 |
->> Dan, I don't have any real world experience, but I hear that converting the RAW files to DNG through Adobe DNG Converter and then importing those DNGs into your current version of LR will work.
The Windows download: http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/detail.jsp?ftpID=4214
The Mac download: http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/detail.jsp?ftpID=4213
Again, I haven't tried it yet because I don't have my hands on a MkII yet. But even when I do, I doubt I will... I just upgraded to LR2.
And from what I've read, Adobe's forced upgrade has nothing to do with the MkII... they have a history of not updating raw converters in old versions when the new version of the software comes out. It just happens that the two came out around the same time. In other words, all new cameras will not have RAW support in anything older than the current version of Photoshop. Don't take it personal. They just want to make money like the rest of us. :) |
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Michael J. Treola, Photographer
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Middletown | NJ | USA | Posted: 8:25 PM on 12.29.08 |
->> Dan - I don't use Lightroom but I can confirm that I like Robert above needed to upgrade to PhotoShop CS4 to process the 5d mkII files. CS3 will not process them period and yes that should be illegal.
Tree |
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Philip Johnson, Photographer
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Garland | TX | USA | Posted: 9:44 PM on 12.29.08 |
->> I think the problem is you haven't updated your Camera Raw. Go to this site http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/cameraraw.html and follow the download instructions. In the past Adobe has never made you purchase a new version of photoshop just to read files from new camera models. You just need to update the Camera Raw.
The other way to do it is open Bridge and go to the help menu and click on update.
I don't have a 5DMKII, but it has been added to Camera Raw 5.1 and that is all you need for Bridge. |
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Dan Bannister, Photographer
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Calgary | AB | Canada | Posted: 9:51 PM on 12.29.08 |
->> Yeh, that's what I thought. Brings back bad memories of when CS3 was new and the 1D MK3 was new and suddenly, I could'nt see my RAW files anymore. Upgraded to CS3 and ended up with about a week of computer problems that required I enter the hell that is Adobe (NO)Customer Service. Cost me a fortune in lost time to fix problems that Adobe created and now I'm really gun shy about upgrading. I also dont have the time to relearn the program again and have no real need to upgrade.
I am curious though, does anyone know if there is any difference between the 5D RAW file and the 5D MK2 RAW file? I suspect there is no real difference other than it says "5D MKII" somewhere in the metadata which means CS3 could read the file but Adobe just makes it not in order to create the need to upgrade.
If I'm not mistaken, a Word Doc is a Word Doc and they are backwards compatible for at least 10 years no?
I'm getting a little tired of being forced into spending money on software I don't want to upgrade, anybody wanna start a "Boycott Adobe" rally ? :) |
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Philip Johnson, Photographer
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Garland | TX | USA | Posted: 9:55 PM on 12.29.08 |
->> Dan,
Read my post above it is a free update for Camera Raw. |
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Dan Bannister, Photographer
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Calgary | AB | Canada | Posted: 9:55 PM on 12.29.08 |
->> Phillip,
Sorry, I posted at the same time as you did so, I didn't see your message until after I posted mine.
What you are saying makes sense. I'll try to upgrade my Adobe Camera Raw to the version you are talking about and see if that works with the CS3 and 5DMK2 files.
Will report the results ASAP |
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David Harpe, Photographer
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Louisville | KY | USA | Posted: 9:58 PM on 12.29.08 |
->> From the link:
"Support for the following cameras is included in Camera Raw 5 and Lightroom 2. Camera Raw 5 and later is not compatible with Photoshop CS3."
If you want 5DMkII raw support, ya gotta buy CS4 (or do an DNG conversion). |
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Dan Bannister, Photographer
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Calgary | AB | Canada | Posted: 10:00 PM on 12.29.08 |
->> David,
Thanks, that's what I just read on the Adobe website as well.
Now, anyone know where I can get torches and pitchforks? |
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Robert Caplin, Photographer
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New York | NY | USA | Posted: 10:02 PM on 12.29.08 |
->> Philip,
From the link you posted (when you click on camera raw link within):
"The Camera Raw 5.2 plug-in is not compatible with versions of Photoshop earlier than Photoshop CS4 or versions of Photoshop Elements earlier than Photoshop Elements 6."
I really think it's awful they do this. I have CS3 Design Premium, which is bundled with all the Adobe CS3 software. I cant just upgrade PS, I have to upgrade the entire Premium Suite, or purchase a full version of PS4.
100% complete BULL$&#T!
I'm not a happy camper. I just want to open a camera file. I shouldn't have to pay another $700 to do that when I have a $2000 Adobe package already.
I think Adobe might lose me as a customer soon. Time to finally learn Apple Aperture.
Robert |
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Dan Bannister, Photographer
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Calgary | AB | Canada | Posted: 10:05 PM on 12.29.08 |
->> Robert,
Hold the phone.... I have the complete Creative Suite Premium too, are you sure I cant just upgrade the Photoshop????
I thought for sure I could at least just spend $199 to upgrade the Photoshop, I don't really even use the rest of that stuff in the Creative Suite. |
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Philip Johnson, Photographer
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Garland | TX | USA | Posted: 10:15 PM on 12.29.08 |
| ->> WOW that does suck. I wasn't thinking of upgrading Photoshop this go around. I think that's the first time I heard of them doing that. Sorry I wasn't much help. |
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Jack Kurtz, Photographer
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Phoenix | AZ | United States | Posted: 10:38 PM on 12.29.08 |
->> Since you have Lightroom 2, simply update LR to 2.2 (which will handle 5D Mk2 files) and use LR/Photoshop instead of Bridge/Photoshop. I'm using LR 2.2 to convert my 5D Mark II files and it's great. The new camera profiles are very nice.
If you want to use Bridge/Photoshop download the free .dng converter and convert your .cr2 files to .dng. It takes a while to convert the files but it works fine.
jack |
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Robert Caplin, Photographer
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New York | NY | USA | Posted: 12:37 AM on 12.30.08 |
->> Dan,
Yep...I had a thorough bitch-out session with the Adobe support folks in India. |
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Garrett Hubbard, Photographer
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Washington | D.C. | USA | Posted: 2:00 PM on 12.31.08 |
| ->> Robert, agreed. A required upgrade to CS4 for updated ACR should be criminal. |
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Max Waugh, Photographer
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Bothell | WA | USA | Posted: 3:07 PM on 12.31.08 |
->> I went through the same thing having to upgrade from CS2 to CS3 just so I could read 40D RAW files. I could not upgrade just PhotoShop since I had purchased the full CS2 suite, so I had to buy a stand-alone version of PS.
Last time some folks were blaming Canon and some were blaming Adobe, so I still don't know which one to be angry at. Regardless, I'm stunned that this is happening again with CS4.
I guess every time you think about buying a new generation body, tack on $300+ more for your software upgrade. |
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Steve Violette, Photographer
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Gulf Breeze | FL | USA | Posted: 3:18 PM on 12.31.08 |
->> Dan - Robert
same here - CS3 Design Premium - can't "down grade to just CS4" either have to purchase the entire suite upgrade or buy a full version of CS4. Had the same bitch session...... |
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Rich Cruse, Photographer
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Laguna Niguel | CA | USA | Posted: 3:24 PM on 12.31.08 |
->> Using Phillip's link to the Adobe Camera Raw page, it specifically says that Camera Raw 5 requires CS4 or LightRoom 2.
"Camera Raw 5 and later is not compatible with Photoshop CS3."
Get the PhotoShop CS4 Upgrade or use LightRoom 2.
Rich |
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Kolman Rosenberg, Photographer
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Mentor | OH | USA | Posted: 3:31 PM on 12.31.08 |
->> I have the same situation with a new Canon G10. It shoots in the new CR2 RAW format that needs an upgrade to CS4. I hadn't planned on upgrading to CS4.
I love the G10, but keep that in mind if you are considering this camera too. |
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Michael Chansley, Photographer, Assistant
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Tucson | AZ | USA | Posted: 3:53 PM on 12.31.08 |
| ->> You can convert CR2 RAW files to DNG using Adobe DNG converter and open the DNG files in Photoshop CS3. It's an extra step, but if you don't want to upgrade it's one solution. |
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Jim Colburn, Photo Editor, Photographer
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McAllen | TX | USA | Posted: 7:11 AM on 01.01.09 |
| ->> Since Adobe are generally such arseholes about forcing you to upgrade (I remember having to upgrade to CS3 to use the 5D plug-in) you should have no problem with sticking it to them by buying an education version of Photoshop at a discount. Find someone that goes to school or works at a school and see how much they pay for Photoshop, it's currently around $200 for the full program... |
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Cameron Davidson, Photographer
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David Harpe, Photographer
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Louisville | KY | USA | Posted: 5:33 PM on 01.06.09 |
->> I just ran across this upgrade deal from Adobe:
http://www.adobe.com/special/up2suite/?PID=1440079
If you have an older version of creative suite (CS2/CS3), you get $200 off of an upgrade to CS4 through February. So for instance if you have CS2 standard and want to bump to CS4 premium, it's $599 instead of $799.
Dave |
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Jim Colburn, Photo Editor, Photographer
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McAllen | TX | USA | Posted: 11:28 PM on 01.06.09 |
| ->> Are any of the alternatives CS3 compatible plug-ins? |
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Max Simbron, Photographer, Assistant
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Phoenix | AZ | USA | Posted: 11:49 AM on 01.07.09 |
->> Chansley is correct. If you download the latest camera raw for CS4 plus DNG converter standalone app, then simply use the DNG on a folder of RAW files, you can then open those new DNG's within CS3.
As he said, it's an extra step, but it can save you from upgrading simply to open a raw file. |
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Dan Bannister, Photographer
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Calgary | AB | Canada | Posted: 1:06 PM on 01.07.09 |
->> Max, Michael;
Thanks for the advice regarding DNG. This is a workaround that I don't want to and shouldn't have to go through.
I have a couple of concerns, first, once I convert all my RAW files to DNG, I'm deeper in the glue with Adobe. What if they decide that next year, you can't see any older DNG files without buying their latest software plug in for another $1000? What if they decide to stop supporting DNG all together?
In the end, I'd rather just keep all my files as the original, manufacturers RAW and use ACR to convert the files or make them viewable in Bridge and Lightroom as I do now. Less hassle, no time wasted converting from RAW to DNG and no potential damage or corruption of files.
Unfortunately, Adobe seems to be playing a game by taking advantage of the pace of camera technology, every time a major camera manufacturer has a release that coincides with their latest marginal upgrade, they make sure to lock everyone who has a new camera out, thereby forcing you to upgrade. Now, I can't see my RAW files in Bridge but, can see them in LR2 which is a pain because I like using both programs for different reasons, also, I cannot take advantage of some cross functionality between the two unless I upgrade. In reality, there is probably no reason that ACR cannot allow CS3 to see the MKII files but, that would not benefit Adobe in the short run which pisses people off because they are forced to upgrade.
Another thing I'm concerned about is Adobe seems to be trying to wrestle control of the file format away from the camera manufacturers. They are trying to push you to convert to DNG by saying this is the "universal platform" when in fact, it's a platform that Adobe controls. If everyone goes to DNG, then the camera manufacturers no longer control the file formats and everyone is now a slave to Adobe. Fast forward to the next generation of Cameras and let's say they decide to create a file format that does not allow conversion to DNG by withholding some sort of valuable code from Adobe. WHAM! suddenly you've got thousands invested in Adobe and you can only see the files with the camera manufacturers proprietary software.
I haven't done anything yet. Right now I'm just using LR with 5D files and converting them to TIFF's for manipulation and client delivery but, it really means extra work and less value from my Adobe. Maybe if enough people put some pressure on Adobe, they'll release a ACR upgrade that allows CS3 to see 5D MKII files. As well, with enough publicity, people will find out that upgrading cameras means they have to drop a significant amount of money to upgrade software that they already upgraded only a year or two ago and will decide not to buy a new camera, putting pressure on both the manufacturers and Adobe to work more closely together to solve this because, it's only going to get worse and more expensive if photographers don't draw a line in the sand soon.
Even better would be if the camera manufacturers got together with a third software company and agreed to lock out Adobe and create a LR type product that worked with all camera files and had the same functionality as LR and Aperture and was designed to be a photographer's platform. I really think there is a niche open in the market for someone to create this. A lot of shooters could get behind an all in one solution I'm sure.
How come Orphan Works makes such a huge noise but no one in Government seems interested in taking on the software industry on this stuff? |
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April Tse, Photographer
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Mountain View | Ca | | Posted: 1:42 PM on 01.07.09 |
->> I discovered this issue when early November when a few of us talked the canon pro rep into letting us play with the 5dMKII when it was official announced. We were allowed to take a few frames as long as we didn't post them :-)
We were very upset when we disocvered LR2 would open the files, but not CS3 and learned that we would be forced to upgrade to CS4.
According to the pro rep -- this is not a Canon issue but an Adobe issue. He was stressing -- if you want to blame someone, blame Adobe. Historically, Adobe does not go back and updates their older software with the latest camera models and the ACR engine is very old in LR1 and CS3 are old. And this is not a new policy for Adobe. As soon as CS3 came out, there were no more updates for CS2 ACR. The same is true with CS4. Adobe wants to make money, plain and simple.
Canon looks at it this way -- DPP works with 5dMKII and that is the image processing software that Canon supports (and pushing to consumers)
The canon pro work around solution for CS3 - convert CR2 RAW files to DNG using Adobe DNG converter and open the DNG files in PS CS3. The is the same solution suggested some people in this thread. |
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Alex Menendez, Photographer
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Orlando | FL | USA | Posted: 2:19 PM on 02.06.09 |
->> OK, so I have the 5DMKII and still cant get the CR2 raw files to open in CS4. Any ideas what I am doing wrong? Do I need to turn something on or off?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
alex |
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Kirby Yau, Photographer, Assistant
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San Diego | CA | USA | Posted: 2:36 PM on 02.06.09 |
| ->> This is one of the big reasons I've ditched Lightroom and I'm running Aperture on my Mac. The camera Raw profiles are updated by Apple's system software (albiet takes time to get from apple) and not for the program itself, so you can open it in the OS, iPhoto, Preview, and Aperture. You might have to update to the next system, but that isn't as frequent as new versions of software. |
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Rene Mireles, Photographer
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Holland | MI | USA | Posted: 2:51 PM on 02.06.09 |
->> Had the same issue when getting my 5Dmk2, not opening in CS3 , good thing I had lightroom which opens those files just fine, I use LR instead of Bridge so it didn't add any more steps in my workflow. I now use LR for all my workflow and just CS3 for final product output, In LR i have CS3 set up as a edit program so i just right click in LR and send to CS3 converts it just fine.
I also tried Aperture but I was already hooked on Photoshop, and didn't want to relearn a new application, but I know apple does a good job updating aperture to keep up with all the new raw camera files. |
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Alex Menendez, Photographer
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Alex Menendez, Photographer
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Orlando | FL | USA | Posted: 3:04 PM on 02.06.09 |
->> Here we go for those of you with this problem.
Download the above link updater.
Open the update, then load the plug in into the Application folder on your hard drive in the PHotoshop CS4 "plug ins" folder. Restart photoshop and you can import the damn CR2 raw files.
Best of luck to you. jeeeessshhhh! |
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Bill Vaughn, Photographer
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Huntsville | Al | United States | Posted: 3:06 PM on 02.06.09 |
| ->> For those using LR2 and CS3 with 5DMkII (if there are any of you) can I use LR to view, cull and make minor corrections to the 5DMkII files, then if I want to edit one in PS - doesn't LR convert it to a PSD file for me? That's what I'm doing now (absent the 5D being in the mix). Perhaps PS is actually making the PSD file for me rather than LR, but I thought LR was doing it. |
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N. Scott Trimble, Photographer
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Lake Oswego | OR | USA | Posted: 3:42 PM on 02.06.09 |
| ->> Yes Bill, that is how it works. Don't really know yet what you lose. Y'know, I say lets get a petition going with us at Sportsshooter, perhaps elsewhere of PS users in this economy that can't afford to upgrade, but must use their camera and updated RAW update. Strength in numbers? I just sank my money in a new camera and photo rep/ad campaign and now a baby on the way, so I have to draw the line on expensive minor software upgrade, and with things the way they are right now, Adobe could help. |
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David Butler II, Photographer
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Somers | CT | USA | Posted: 10:12 PM on 07.13.09 |
| ->> Just running into this problem with Canon 5D Mark II files.... Adobe should be ashamed of themselves. I don't want to use any DNG converter.... I do not want to upgrade to CS4.... PATHETIC ADOBE!!!! |
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Tim Snow, Photographer
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Montreal | Qc | Canada | Posted: 10:57 PM on 07.13.09 |
->> As others have mentioned, I simply upload my 5d MkII and 1d MkIII files into Lightroom 2, I do all of my post in lightroom, and then save as Jpeg or Tiff as needed. Truth be told, I rarely use Photoshop anymore, I find LR suits my style just fine.
LR lets you convert to PSD, TIFF, JPEG and DNG, you should be fine with it. And it is much cheaper than Photoshop! |
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Ian L. Sitren, Photographer
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Palm Springs | CA | USA | Posted: 11:48 PM on 07.13.09 |
->> You really have to grin and bear it and upgrade the Adobe products. We pretty much have these same discussions annually or so without fail.
However I will say that it is my opinion that the best RAW converter for Canon files is Canon DPP and it is free with your body. Truly it is cumbersome and not really suited to processing a lot of files quickly but it produces images that are in my opinion much superior to Lightroom or Adobe Camera Raw.
Next in line I would say is Capture One. But you will be buying new upgrades for Capture One also on a regular basis. |
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Louis Lopez, Photographer
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Fontana | CA | USA | Posted: 1:17 AM on 07.14.09 |
->> Adobe is in the business to make a profit I am sure.
It is really quite entertaining to listen to this bitch session all the time, about it being "criminal" when a company requires one to upgrade.
A new camera is released and Adobe creates the new code to be able to read the new raw files and they then want to charge you to get the new code? How dare they!(sarcasm) I know that Nikon does not provide the code for their raw files to Adobe, it is all reverse engineered by adobe. I am not familiar with the Canon raw files code.
It is quite simple, use a different product if you don't like the way a company is doing business. Talk with your pocketbook, it's the only thing that they will listen to. |
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Baron Sekiya, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Keaau | HI | USA | Posted: 6:09 AM on 07.14.09 |
->> The last time I bought new camera bodies I had to upgrade to PSCS3 for RAW compatibility. I told myself never again. I already owned Apple's Aperture and now I use that most of the time.
The learning curve is moderate to high going from PS to Aperture as keystrokes are different. But the thought of give Adobe more money just for RAW plugin compatibility is criminal. I don't need all the bells and whistles of the latest Photoshop as photojournalist.
Adobe recently sent out a survey request, I gladly did it and told them CS3 would be my last purchase of PS.
I believe, from the survey, Adobe is thinking about a subscription model. You pay for a year's worth of PS and get every update for that year, kind of sounds like PhotoMechanic. |
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Fj Hughes, Photographer, Assistant
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Baltimore | MD | USA | Posted: 7:01 AM on 07.14.09 |
->> If this has already been mentioned, my apologies. I just could not read through the entire thread.
As long as you have a current version of LR 2, you should be able to open 5D mkII files in PS no problem. You make all your raw conversion changes in LR 2 and then export('apple key/E'} them into Photoshop. Lightroom may tell you that your version of ACR is out of date. You just select the use Lightroom to convert option. It is correct that you won't be able to view them in bridge or convert with the stand alone version of ACR unless you convert them to DNG. |
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