| Sign in: |
| Members log in here with your user name and password to access the your admin page and other special features. |
|
|
|
|
|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Laforet movie using the 5D is online
Allen Murabayashi, Photographer
|
Preston Mack, Photographer
 |
Orlando | FL | USA | Posted: 4:24 PM on 09.23.08 |
->> Vince's movie looks amazing, but I wonder how this camera will be used professionally.
Wouldn't someone wanting video, want it shot with a pure video camera? Something with better audio controls?
If I were hiring, I would not want to have one person do double duty, unless it was a news thing for a newspaper, where you needed to record both...
What will MLB or the NFL say when they realize that these STILL cameras can capture HD video. That is not gonna fly... |
|
Corey Perrine, Photographer
|
Hudson | NH | USA | Posted: 4:49 PM on 09.23.08 |
->> Preston,
Shhh. You don't want them to hear you do ya? |
|
Preston Mack, Photographer
|
Orlando | FL | USA | Posted: 4:52 PM on 09.23.08 |
->> Corey,
AAARRGGHHH - you are right... scrub that last line from that post!!!! :)
PM |
|
Jim Colburn, Photo Editor, Photographer
|
McAllen | TX | USA | Posted: 5:31 PM on 09.23.08 |
| ->> Does anyone know exactly what HD format this camera records in? HDV? DVCPRO HD? Inter-Frame or Intra-Frame compression? Long GOP? Sampling rate? Does it record SMPTE time code? How compressed is the audio? |
|
Daniel Putz, Photographer
|
Jefferson | MD | USA | Posted: 6:34 PM on 09.23.08 |
->> Movie recording *
• Available optionally during Live view mode
• 1920 x 1080 (16:9) up to 12 mins (Quicktime 1080p H.264; 38.6 Mbits/sec)
• 640 x 480 (4:3) up to 24 mins (Quicktime 480p H.264; 17.3 Mbits/sec)
• Max file size 4 GB
• Quicktime MOV format (H.264 video, PCM sound)
• 30 fps |
|
Daniel Putz, Photographer
|
Jefferson | MD | USA | Posted: 6:35 PM on 09.23.08 |
| ->> oh, and SMPTE is a good CD by Transatlantic. |
|
Baron Sekiya, Photographer
|
Kailua-Kona | HI | USA | Posted: 9:10 PM on 09.23.08 |
| ->> I wonder what kind of headache this will cause for organizations, think PGA, NFL, MLB, when they can't tell the still shooters from video shooters on the sidelines. Doesn't TV has different press credentials and publish rights than still at these events? Though I would guess Tiger won't hear that shutter click during his backswing. |
|
Allen Murabayashi, Photographer
|
New York | NY | USA | Posted: 9:47 PM on 09.23.08 |
->> Baron, I'm not sure that the use case you mention is really much of a concern. The photo credential states that it's for stills, so even if a photographer shot video, it's not like he can legally post that any where -- particularly on his/her newspaper website. So as it relates to pro sports, the camera is probably of limited use.
However, as it relates to general story telling, it's pretty amazing. Imagine covering a wedding with this device. Or imagine doing a long-term project with this. It's really pretty cool. |
|
Guy Rhodes, Photographer
 |
East Chicago | IN | USA | Posted: 10:21 PM on 09.23.08 |
->> Preston,
Video guys like me who have access to $36K broadcast cameras are eying the 5D Mark II because of the ability to use Canon's lineup of lenses with LARGE apertures coupled with the LARGE full frame sensor size of the 5D. This means we can achieve very cinematic, shallow depth of field (as Vince did in his video) at a cost that has, up to now, been impossible without either shooting 35mm motion picture film, or using clumsy 35mm lens adapters for regular 1/3rd or 2/3rd inch chip DV video cameras. |
|
Kirby Yau, Photographer, Assistant
|
San Diego | CA | USA | Posted: 10:45 PM on 09.23.08 |
->> COME ON!! The 5D MKII ain't a thing!
Anything can look cool and awesome with a beautiful woman in a sexy slinky dress, A HELICOPTER, and smoky fumes coming out of ground. =)
Look at every film made by Michael Bay ;)
Just Kidding Vincent, great job on pushing the MKII to the limit. |
|
Paul W Gillespie, Photographer
|
Annapolis | MD | USA | Posted: 12:37 AM on 09.24.08 |
| ->> I have to say that I was impressed. |
|
Vincent Laforet, Photographer
|
New York | NY | USA | Posted: 12:45 AM on 09.24.08 |
->> Michael Bay? is that a compliment or insult.. not sure.. if I make what he makes some day... I don't think I'll care quite frankly..
seriously - the look and style of the film was not going to be a poetic novel - not in the 2 hours we had to do the story board.. it had to be a visually driven "ad" if you will - and what I mean by ad - is not an ad for Canon - but something akin to a 30 second cologne ad... that was the goal: 30 seconds... it turned out to be 2 minutes.. |
|
Jim Colburn, Photo Editor, Photographer
|
McAllen | TX | USA | Posted: 6:38 AM on 09.24.08 |
->> "Quicktime MOV format"
My questions about format, compression, etc. are still unanswered.
Canon's web site offers no info on the matter as far as I can see. |
|
Jeff Frings, Photographer
|
Milwaukee | WI | USA | Posted: 8:20 AM on 09.24.08 |
->> I had to force myself to close my mouth as I watched and then read about the camera. As a video photojournalist, I know I wouldn't be able to use this camera every day for news if it didn't have top notch audio, but good lord, the possibilities for EVERYTHING else are mind boggling. And the price is incredible. I have friends who spent much more than that for HD video cameras alone.
Vincent is right, this will change the industry.
Oh and by the way the film/video/ad looked awesome. |
|
Phil Hawkins, Photographer
|
Fresno | ca | usa | Posted: 6:11 PM on 09.24.08 |
->> Of course it looked awesome, ALL 1080i video looks awesome! Jiminy Christmas, c'mon y'all, have you compared this with 1080i output from dedicated 1080i camcorders? Establish a meaningful point of reference before you go all breathless here... Jeez louise....
Take a look at this 1080i on-line example; it's better than what's coming out of the 5D MKII... http://www.mefeedia.com/entry/cinemank-kinospot-hd-filmgut-at/11563714/ at half the screen size. |
|
Scott Utterback, Photographer
|
Louisville | Ky | USA | Posted: 7:23 PM on 09.24.08 |
->> Phil,
I don't think many people have turned over their money yet but that doesn't mean we can't get excited about the new 5D.
I looked at your example and in my opinion it is not as good as quality as the one Vincent shot. Also... on the internet it is easier to have things look better quality by compressing them out smaller. To have the quality of Vincent's video be as good or better than your example, at a larger size, is a positive note on the 5D.
As Madden would say... let's not anoint the 5D yet (but go ahead and make sure we have the anointing oil near by.)
This is just my opinion but I think some people are missing the point of this camera. Yes it could be video only or still only but I think this is Canon's answer to all of the photogs out there that have been asked to do both. This new tool, while I'm sure it will have some bugs, will make that task monumentally easier to accomplish. |
|
Myung Chun, Photographer
|
Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 9:34 PM on 09.24.08 |
->> Beautiful stuff.
As everyone raves about the shallower DOF, a problem with that is focusing. If your scenes are blocked (in the cinematic sense) and you're not follow-focusing, then it's not a problem. If you're running-and-gunning (like what PJs would be doing), the shallower DOF and using the LCD screen, makes focusing that much more difficult, especially with tele lenses...and even with wide angles.
That's what I've noticed with a Nikon D90 I'm testing. Maybe the Canon video AF is pretty good. No one seems to have addressed that though. |
|
Guy Rhodes, Photographer
|
East Chicago | IN | USA | Posted: 9:38 PM on 09.24.08 |
->> Myung,
I was thinking about this earlier, how long will it take for third party companies to come up with some sort of friction-based follow focus system (since EOS lenses don't have gear teeth like cine lenses) for Canon EOS lenses? Of course, this would require a calibration of sorts at the start of each session since the focus rings on most EOS lenses spin around and around indefinitely.
Hmmm... maybe I should get to work on some drawings? |
|
Guy Rhodes, Photographer
|
East Chicago | IN | USA | Posted: 9:41 PM on 09.24.08 |
->> ... here's a similar follow focus modification that I was thinking about with the EOS lenses in mind built for another gearless lensed camcorder, the DVX100...
http://www.abelcine.com/store/product.php?productid=10336
You simply slip the ring over the the focus ring on the camera, and the geared ring goes over that. Then, attach the cine style follow focus of your choice and you're off! |
|
Tom Knier, Photographer
|
Lancaster | PA | USA | Posted: 10:37 PM on 09.24.08 |
->> ^^^ Or just look around for manual focus lenses.
No legitimate video shooter uses autofocus, anyway. |
|
Guy Rhodes, Photographer
|
East Chicago | IN | USA | Posted: 11:30 PM on 09.24.08 |
->> Tom,
Fact. It's not even an option on most pro and broadcast video lenses. |
|
Allen Murabayashi, Photographer
|
New York | NY | USA | Posted: 11:33 PM on 09.24.08 |
->> I think nitpicking about feature-level issues misses the point. of course, a dedicated device will generally perform better than a hybrid.
but people find great utility in cellphones with cameras, and now cellphone cameras take more pictures than standalone cameras (1.4B cellphone cameras by end of 2007 - http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2007/02/near_future_hea.html). so there has been a huge paradigm shift through the hybridization. image quality for the people using cellphone cameras is secondary to the ability to capture pictures/video with a phone.
similarly, it's not that we're going to use the 5D in lieu of a video camera. it's that i can now use the same device to capture both simultaneously, which opens up a realm of possibilities for story telling whether i'm a pro or not.
should i capture the birth of my child on film or video? why choose. do both with the same device. pick later. |
|
Tom Knier, Photographer
|
Lancaster | PA | USA | Posted: 11:34 PM on 09.24.08 |
->> Guy,
I know. I'm a TV news photog. My Ikegami never leaves my side... |
|
Myung Chun, Photographer
|
Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 12:10 AM on 09.25.08 |
->> Guy,
That'll make the focus ring more precise, however, it won't change the fact that focusing off a LCD screen is difficult especially in bright light and especially when the subject and / or the camera is moving.
Disclosure: I have not used or even seen the new 5D in person. However, if it's anywhere similar to the D90 in terms of operation/handling, then those problems will arise.
I'll admit that the images out of the 5D is gorgeous and it has a mic jack (a feature we've all been asking for). Kudos to Canon for listening and coming out with this camera.
I'll put one of these on my wish list. |
|
Guy Rhodes, Photographer
|
East Chicago | IN | USA | Posted: 3:11 AM on 09.25.08 |
->> Myung,
Reading your last post, I realized that you lose the optical viewfinder on these DSLR video cameras because, obviously, the mirror has to flip up for the image to get to the sensor - D'oh!
You're definitely right that critical focus would be very hard to achieve on the tiny camera LCD. I wonder if the 5D's video mode offers a zoom feature for focus assisting on the screen as the live view does on the MarkIII? |
|
Daniel Putz, Photographer
|
Jefferson | MD | USA | Posted: 8:51 AM on 09.25.08 |
| ->> It does up to 10x, but that doesn't make live-action critical-focusing any easier. |
|
Chad Clark, Photographer, Assistant
|
Taylorsville | UT | USA | Posted: 10:45 AM on 09.25.08 |
->> It would be nice to have pro audio, but professional shoots don't always record the audio on tape/film. I'm going to use the Zoom H4 to act as my DAT. It has professional balanced xlr audio, phantom power, and records up to 24-bit/96kHz quality to match your HD. Just slate it, clap your hands, it's not the worst thing in the world. Performance audio is throwing in a free mic with the H4 right now: http://www.performanceaudio.com/cgi/product_view.cgi?products_id=12756
We did a review of the Zoom products in episode 3 of the podgineer podcast: http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?i=33178302&id..., go to 6:33 to hear the specs, 12:00 to hear the H2, 14:15 to hear H2 samples.
We use the H4 for all of our Foley... see 32:00 in on episode 6. |
|
Baron Sekiya, Photographer
|
Kailua-Kona | HI | USA | Posted: 11:57 PM on 09.25.08 |
->> I use a Photosolve Xtend-a-View to see my LCD screens in the bright Hawaiian sunshine, also works well turning LCD screens into electronic viewfinders on P&S cameras.
http://www.photosolve.com/
Maybe a flip-up magnifier like a Rolleiflex?
The reason I mentioned pro sports earlier is that I can see some editor telling a photog that may not know any better to shoot some video while at a game, then they post it on the paper's website or something. Then it puts the rest under more scrutiny if it gets posted.
Great job Vincent, I think this was an excellent proof of concept on what can be done with this new tool and it's gyrating a lot of brain cells on ideas. Looking forward to when you get your set of four 5DMk2 cameras. |
|
David Harpe, Photographer
|
Louisville | KY | USA | Posted: 12:24 AM on 09.26.08 |
->> Let see...follow focus rig, HAVE to have a set of rails and a matte box, audio connections, viewfinder hood, probably some sort of remote zoom thing...all on a body about two inches thick...
...we'll call it...FrankenCamera!
Bwahahahahahaha it's ALIVE! |
|
Daniel Putz, Photographer
|
Jefferson | MD | USA | Posted: 1:35 AM on 09.26.08 |
| ->> Why the hell not. Still would cheaper! |
|
Daniel Putz, Photographer
|
Jefferson | MD | USA | Posted: 1:35 AM on 09.26.08 |
| ->> *be |
|
Myung Chun, Photographer
|
Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 2:32 AM on 09.26.08 |
->> David,
LOL, kinda crazy huh? |
|
Brian Light, Photographer
|
Pennsville | NJ | USA | Posted: 8:50 AM on 09.26.08 |
->> The output you get with the 5D MkII is outstanding in relationship to the low price of entry, especially for Canon shooters who have the lenses.
Outside of the body and maybe some Microphones, we already have most of the other stuff in our arsenal. It's another tool in the toolbox and for the entry point, the output is tremendous in my opinion.
For those who want to compare it to a broadcast camera, which might cost $35,000 on up... it's serviceable with a decent lens for 1/10 the price. And to get that level of video without a manual and under the time constraint he was faced with is amazing... period. |
|
Andrew Knapik, Photographer, Assistant
|
Lincoln Park | MI | USA | Posted: 9:01 AM on 09.26.08 |
| ->> So if your shooting an NFL game with the 5D II, can you now encroach on the yellow line on the sidelines that is reserved for video shooters? |
|
David Harpe, Photographer
|
Louisville | KY | USA | Posted: 2:20 PM on 09.26.08 |
->> Why the hell not. Still would cheaper!
Well, let's not get overboard here. It's a good solution for some very specific applications, and will definitely be fun for PJs and folks on a budget to play with. But in terms of using it for real-world, money-on-the-line production, it's just not the right tool in many situations.
Just as there's a reason pro still cameras cost thousands of dollars more than prosumer cameras with the same megapixel resolution, there are reasons why pro video and film cameras cost more and are larger. In pro applications you need things like real audio connectors, timecode, multiple frame rates, over/undercrank, purpose-made lenses and viewfinders, etc.
It'll be fun, and there are lots of PJs and others that will do cool stuff with it...I'll probably buy one six months after it's released and the first round of bug fixes are done :-). But end of the day if I really need to shoot video with specific requirements and money on the line, chances are I'll grab a real pro video camera with a proper lens and viewfinder arrangement instead of FrankenCamera. :-) |
|
Jim Colburn, Photo Editor, Photographer
|
McAllen | TX | USA | Posted: 10:33 AM on 09.27.08 |
| ->> My hope is that Canon will use the technology developed for the new 5D and produce a 1080P video camera with a native EOS mount and good audio inputs. $3-4K for that and they'd sweep the market. |
|
Dirk Dewachter, Photographer
 |
Playa Del Rey | CA | USA | Posted: 6:42 PM on 09.27.08 |
| ->> Vincent was talking about the "Reverie" project wiht the 5D MII on Leo Laporte's tech show saturday |
|
Daniel Putz, Photographer
|
Jefferson | MD | USA | Posted: 7:12 PM on 09.27.08 |
| ->> got the email update an hour too late...watching the Phils do their thing. |
|
Myung Chun, Photographer
|
Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 9:09 PM on 10.07.08 |
->> David Harpe wrote: "...we'll call it...FrankenCamera!
Bwahahahahahaha it's ALIVE!"
You mean like this?
http://tinyurl.com/4n2ovh |
|
Return to --> Message Board Main Index
|