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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Q: Google rankings- livebooks site
Eric Patterson, Photographer
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Louisville | KY | United States | Posted: 9:41 PM on 09.08.08 |
->> I'm looking for a bit of insight regarding my site's google rank, or current lack of rank.
I have a Livebook site that is www.ericpattersonphoto.com, that has been up for almost two years. I've watched my rankings climb over time, especially when the search involved my name AND photo or photography. For the past year I cracked the first page with just my name, despite the Oakland MLB player with MY name, and a random real estate photog in Phoenix.
Now, It seems my site has disappeared... Overnight. It's not even close. My site will not come up in a search result regardless what combination of my domain name words you use.
What's strange is that if you type: site:ericpattersonphoto.com, all the pages are still indexed.
Anyone?? |
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Lucas Mobley, Photographer
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Seattle | WA | USA | Posted: 10:06 PM on 09.08.08 |
->> It's not uncommon for sites to fall out of rank for a day or two. You can keep track of some of that with Google's webmaster tools.
If your site is properly key worded, the main way to improve your rank for your target key words is by building high duality one way inbound links from relevant websites. Also, Google's algorithms look closely at the speed of your link building. A rapid spike in new links would indicate your trying to fool the system. So keep your link building steady long term.
It you want to learn your stuff, spend a few days reading Matt Cutts blog. http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/. |
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Mike Brice, Photographer
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Toledo | OH | USA | Posted: 10:37 PM on 09.08.08 |
->> Eric,
The same thing happened to me.
I was listed first if you googled Toledo wedding photographer for the past two years. No quick rise - slowly since I established the site in 2002.
Now, I can't be found unless you type mikebrice.com
It is very bizarre.
I am glad I am not the only one. Although not much comfort in that really. |
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Eric Patterson, Photographer
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Louisville | KY | United States | Posted: 10:58 PM on 09.08.08 |
->> Ok,.....
Lucas said: "Also, Google's algorithms look closely at the speed of your link building. A rapid spike in new links would indicate your trying to fool the system. So keep your link building steady long term."
I had recently added a link from my LB site (personal site) to my studio site, and vise-versa.
Had alot of traffic TO the LB site FROM the studio site.
Could that linking and resulting traffic made google think I'm trying to fool it, and thrown out my site?
And if so, how do I get back? Kill the linking?
wow. I feel falsely accused.
BTW, great info Lucas, thanks. |
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Michael Chansley, Photographer, Assistant
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Tucson | AZ | USA | Posted: 12:10 AM on 09.09.08 |
| ->> I also noticed a sudden drop in my Google rankings over the last few days. I, like Mike, was one of the first listed when people Googled "wedding photographer Tucson" and now it's nowhere to be found. My page still says it's active under the local business center. Google's phone support is no help, so I sent an email and hopefully I'll be visible again soon along with everyone else who is having problems. |
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Lucas Mobley, Photographer
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Seattle | WA | USA | Posted: 7:29 PM on 09.09.08 |
->> In my personal experience Google is very smart. Your not going to get in trouble with them unless you really really really breaking the rules. We talking hundreds probably thousands of links over night from sites that are considered spam by Google. Even then, Google would probably just assign slightly negative value to the page rank being passed from those sites.
The same thing happened to me a couple of months ago when I changed some html on my splash page. I vanished for about 7-10 days than came back higher then ever. These things seem to take time for what ever reason. Just keep building good links and good content with targeted, relevant key words.
Another big factor in page rank is the age of your site. With a several year old site, you will be considered pretty trust worthy by Google. Most spam sites are new. Thus the Google sand box keeps many new sites out of the way until they gain trust.
But who knows, I'm definitely no expert. I Just know what seems to be working for me. |
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Mark Scheuern, Photographer
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Grand Blanc | MI | USA | Posted: 10:46 PM on 09.09.08 |
| ->> Hmmm, yeah, same here with my LiveBooks site. I was right near the top for "motorsports photography"; now I went through ten pages and still didn't come up. |
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Phil Hawkins, Photographer
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Fresno | ca | usa | Posted: 12:38 PM on 09.10.08 |
| ->> Google search algorithms change all the time. One thing I know for sure; the more you try to beat the "system", the worse it's going to be for you when they figure it out, and sooner or later they will. Just diligently and steadily build your keyword associations, links with other like sites and over time, and I mean TIME, you will see results. Also, make sure you have no dead links on your site, and stay away from link farms. |
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Patrick Fallon, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Columbia | MO | USA | Posted: 9:27 PM on 09.10.08 |
->> Eric,
Please keep us updated on how this goes for you, since I too have the livebooksedu site.
On a side note, I am finally the top result for a search of "Patrick Fallon". It has taken quite a while to get there, originally requiring my middle initial or photo in the search. I have been adding my name to all my livebooks keywording and I turned on the html mirror site as well to help with my SEO.
Good Luck
Patrick
http://www.patrickfallonphoto.com |
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David Harpe, Photographer
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John Harrington, Photographer
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Washington | DC | USA | Posted: 8:36 PM on 09.13.08 |
->> Just an FYI -
Livebooks has spent a great deal of time on SEO, and have done a good job at it. There are a great deal of reasons, as noted above, why a site could fall in and out of favor - it's not whether or not it's a LB site or not, it's how the algorythms change, and if they think you're a link farm, etc, again, as noted above.
Furthermore, and an SEO tip - people searching for your name is not a good strategy. You want something like "phoenix photographers", or something like that.
John |
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Mike Brice, Photographer
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Toledo | OH | USA | Posted: 10:09 PM on 09.13.08 |
->> John,
It IS because it is a Livebooks site - even Livebooks admits that something is amiss.
While Livebooks has been great for SEO, there is something in the algorithm that has uniquely and harmfully affected Livebooks sites. Beginning I believe Sunday night, Livebooks sites - numerous but not all - dropped off the Google radar.
I don't mean fell from 1st to 3rd or first page to third page, but no where.
For the past two years if you searched for Toledo wedding photographer (don't laugh), I was the first organic result.
If you do that now, my Livebooks site doesn't appear - well I gave up looking after 10 pages. My blog site didn't change at all.
Other Livebooks users have reported the same thing at the same time.
Livebooks has acknowledge that something's amiss and they are working on it dilligently. I hope they will be as successful at finding a correction as they did helping me reach and retain my number one spot for two year. |
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Eric Patterson, Photographer
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Louisville | KY | United States | Posted: 10:19 PM on 09.13.08 |
->> I agree. LB's SEO is great. I've been more than pleased.
I actually didn't think that my problem was related to LB, and only included LB in this thread title because I knew that there were quite a few people here with LB sites, and it might generate more answers.
An update, LB has opened a case number and alluded to a few problems with some sites. Their response has been terrific.
Also, I also got a call this evening from a photog with a LB site that had the same problem. He stated that LB took responsibility (they had been "playing around with something")
and his rankings are back. Interesting.
My rankings are still nowhere, but I'm a fairly patient.
Thanks for the tip John. I'll redeploy with that strategy.
Also, really enjoy your blog. It's a great resource. |
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John Harrington, Photographer
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Washington | DC | USA | Posted: 11:52 AM on 09.14.08 |
->> Mike --
There is a difference between acknowledging something is amiss, and saying "its our fault...". Since there may be something that's amiss (as opposed to accessing old search results, or something one-off) they are looking into it. I wrote about them here:
http://photobusinessforum.blogspot.com/2008/03/seo-wild-wild-west-or-reason...
And when they came to me to advertise on my blog, I wrote about them here, which included several search results for LB sites that were (and still are) ranking on Google's page 1:
http://photobusinessforum.blogspot.com/2008/02/effective-seo-please-welcome...
Have you checked to see if sites that used to link to you (or were links you created towards your site) are still good? How about if reciprocal links on sites now appear to Google as link farms - which is a big no-no and will get you penalized?
John |
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John Harrington, Photographer
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Washington | DC | USA | Posted: 11:57 AM on 09.14.08 |
->> Eric --
One more point:
>>>He stated that LB took responsibility (they had been "playing around with something") and his rankings are back. Interesting.
Interesting. Consider this - Google is constantly tweaking their algorythms to produce better results.
If, for example, they watch the traffic for a search for "barbie dolls" and they see that of the 1,000 searches a minute that search for that, 25% click the back button and refine their search, then they know that that search result wasn't good. So, they tweak it, and now just 10% are clicking the back button, then that was good. Better results, happier searchers. If, however, that tweak changed the re-searchers to 40%, then it was a bad idea.
So too, in an effort to improve where you appear on search results, they are tweaking the code. The bigger question is - what is your BluHost/BluDoman, ClickBooq, et al doing to grow your presence on the search engines?
John |
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Mike Brice, Photographer
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Toledo | OH | USA | Posted: 12:40 PM on 09.14.08 |
->> John,
I don't get why you keep looking to other possibilities besides it is something that Livebooks did.
Nothing has changed on my end. And to clarify, we are not talking just about a drop in the rankings. The Livebooks sites affected are blind to Google.
And the fact that Livebooks admits to its users in multiple e-mails that its on their end and they are actively working on it makes me wonder why you think otherwise.
Simple fact is that dozens, if not hundreds of Livebooks sites fell off the Google radar overnight on the same night. That's not a coincidence.
And since there are only two things in common with all those sites - Livebooks and Google - it is either because Google changed something or Livebooks did.
If Google changed something, you would expect a different result for the search - lots of changes for the all the photographers who appear when you would search Toledo Wedding Photographer. But instead everything is the same with the other photographers in the area, except my site is gone. Well, they have all moved up one place.
Livebooks has been great. They have admitted their once strong SEO has a problem and they are actively working to correct it.
However, until they do, there are dozens, if not hundreds of photographers that are blind to Google.
Mike |
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John Harrington, Photographer
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Washington | DC | USA | Posted: 1:19 PM on 09.14.08 |
->> Mike --
This link:
http://www.google.com/search&rls=en-us&q=Sports+Photographer&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
Still yields Brad Mangin's site at #1 for "sports photographer".
This link:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=en-us&q=San+Francisco+Sports+Photographer&btnG=Search
Yields Brad at #1 (up from #3) for "San Francisco Sports Photographer"
This link:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=en-us&q=food+photographer&btnG=Search
Still yields Lou Mana as #2 for "food photographer".
This link:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=en-us&q=headshot+photographer&btnG=Search
yields Ken Weingart as #2 (up from #3) for "headshot photographer"
and this link:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=en-us&q=headshot+photographer&btnG=Search
lists Ken at #4 (down from #3) for "los angeles fashion photographer"
(note - all searches done without the quotes).
All are LB sites. All maintained their ranking from months ago, or moved 1 position. When they tweak code, it affects all sites. You can argue that Brad will never move, LB site or not, but for Lou and Ken, they could have had an impact, but did not.
It may be that one variable in the algorythm got changed, and it affected just you, or just some LB sites.
That is why I am looking at other possibilities - not as the only answer, but as a part of the answer. |
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Steve Boyle, Photographer
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Philadelphia | PA | USA | Posted: 2:10 PM on 09.14.08 |
| ->> I have Livebooks and disappeared completely around the same time, haven't changed anything lately. By the time I got around to calling them about it, everything was back to normal so I never called. |
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Mike Brice, Photographer
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Toledo | OH | USA | Posted: 2:15 PM on 09.14.08 |
->> These are 5 examples compared to the dozens that have been impacted from the thousands of Livebooks sites.
There are a lot of reasons that this has happened but there is an issue with Livebooks - do you not see or admit that even when they have? |
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John Harrington, Photographer
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Washington | DC | USA | Posted: 1:30 AM on 09.15.08 |
->> Mike --
I am not saying definitively that it is liveBooks' problem, or it's not. I am also not willing to lay any "blame" squarely one place or another. As I have repeated, Google messes with their algorythm all the time. LB apparently said they made an adjustment, according to Eric who heard it from a colleague, and it had a negative effect, so they are/have/will undo it.
As I cited, there are LB clients who have not been impacted. Clearly, you have seen a drop.
And again, be thankful that LB is clearly *actively* working on SEO. Steve (and no doubt others) have seen drops then returns. I am sure they will be as responsive to you as anyone else, and am glad for that. |
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Mike Brice, Photographer
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Toledo | OH | USA | Posted: 1:33 AM on 09.15.08 |
->> I am glad that I am using LB - both for the past SEO rankings, and the fact that they constantly focus on it, and are working with myself and others to restore our rankings.
I am appreciative of all they have done and do do - I know some photographers that don't receive that type of support from their web site companies. |
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David Harpe, Photographer
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Louisville | KY | USA | Posted: 3:53 AM on 09.15.08 |
->> Eric,
Something that IS a bit revealing is what happens if you do a "link:ericpattersonphoto.com" query on google. It says that not a single site has linked back to you. Seems kinda odd... |
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Eric Patterson, Photographer
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Louisville | KY | United States | Posted: 3:16 PM on 09.15.08 |
->> John:
Correct, BluDomain IS NOT LB, and probably not doing much at all to grow web presence. Blu was a temporary economical choice. No illusions here.
And I actually prefer this to be a LB problem, as I know that it will be fixed. Again, the purpose of this thread was not to imply that LB was responsible in any way,
but to get answers from people with a much greater understanding of issues regarding google and rankings than myself. That, I've accomplished. I'm not totally convinced it's a LB issue, but evidence is mounting. We shall see.
David:
That is very telling,as I have several links (including this thread) listed as click throughs in this months AWstats. LB's supplied stats. |
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Tom Sperduto, Photographer
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Edison | NJ | USA | Posted: 5:11 PM on 09.15.08 |
->> My livebooks site has fallen completely off the radar also.
I have not received any e-mails from Livebooks about any current problems.
I called them and I was told there are other photographers affected, they are working on the problem, and someone will get back to me.
I don't have the capability to load google analytics anymore either.
Let's hope this is fixed, and fast. |
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Tom Sperduto, Photographer
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Edison | NJ | USA | Posted: 7:32 AM on 09.16.08 |
->> Update on my post: Google analytics is working fine.
Still no web presence from my livebooks site. |
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Eric Patterson, Photographer
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Louisville | KY | United States | Posted: 2:56 PM on 09.22.08 |
->> Update.
I received an email from tech support at LB stating my rankings were back. As quickly as they had disappeared, they are in fact back. I had checked as recently as Saturday, but no rankings. Today a quick search of just my name lands my site fourth. Name + photo = first.
I do think this was a LB issue, as opposed to a change in google algorythms, which I'm certain also happens.
LB was very responsive in this resolve, after my initial call. If your site rankings are still compromised, and you've not called LB support, I suggest you do so.
Thanks for the feedback. |
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Mike Brice, Photographer
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Toledo | OH | USA | Posted: 4:01 PM on 09.22.08 |
->> My Livebooks site is still MIA.
Hopefully it returns as yours has... |
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Mark Scheuern, Photographer
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Grand Blanc | MI | USA | Posted: 5:35 PM on 09.22.08 |
| ->> Unfortunately, same here, Mike. |
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Collin Erie, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | United States | Posted: 8:16 PM on 09.22.08 |
| ->> me 3 |
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Tom Sperduto, Photographer
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Edison | NJ | USA | Posted: 6:56 AM on 09.23.08 |
->> Me 4, and it's been awhile.
I guess the good news is that the problem is temporary. Almost a full month with no Google presence is very bad for business. |
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Eric Patterson, Photographer
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Louisville | KY | United States | Posted: 9:49 AM on 09.25.08 |
->> this from LB:
Eric,
We are still tracking this issue very closely as it is still affecting some clients however we have not made any code or configuration changes on our end. The only variables thus far have been Google and steps you may have taken such as signing up with Google's webmaster tools, updating content, and resubmitting your domain. While it is known that Google is constantly changing their ranking strategies and more to the point focussing on indexing Java and Flash there is little proven industry knowledge available outlining best practices. LiveBooks has maintained a dedication to developing tools and building websites as industry leading marketing platforms for creative professionals. Unfortunately in the realm of search everyone with a web presence is at Google's mercy. We encourage photographers in this, also always changing, industry to stay diverse in the way they drive traffic and reach their client base. We at liveBooks will continue, as we have successfully done, to develop our websites, software, and tools with the best proven industry practices and always with photographers in mind. I will keep you updated as more information becomes available. Let me know if you have any questions.
BTW.... I did do those things mentioned, i.e. resubmitting, signing up with webmaster tools....etc.......
Just a FYI for you LB users. |
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Mike Brice, Photographer
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Toledo | OH | USA | Posted: 5:11 PM on 09.25.08 |
->> I purchased Livebooks because of the great SEO results. For the last 18 months it has been great. But like others, at the beginning of the month my site became invisible to Google.
Now, a month later, my free wordpress blog shows up higher than my $3,000 Livebooks site, which doesn't show up no matter what you search unless you search for http://mikebrice.com
After more than a year, it's like I closed up shop and disappeared.
Seeing what is happening now, I am starting to wonder if my $99 customized blog theme was a better value. I mean what point do we think about abandoning Livebooks and moving to a different platform? After one month, two months or three months of no Google response?
I think this thread makes it clear that this has had widespread impact on Livebooks customers and we are all suffering with a sudden, unexpected vanishing of our sites.
It certainly doesn't represent one of their marketing/selling points:
Business minded tools such as world-class search functionality, to help you increase your exposure while enhancing your interactions with clients.
My clients, and many others can't find me unless they know my exact address. That's not world-class.
Sure I benefited from great results, and maybe I need to be patient, but this is frustrating to not be visible on the number one search engine.
I wonder if some tactic or technique that made Livebooks sites perform so well has either been downgraded or eliminated by Google as a search criteria causing the Livebooks SEO edge to disappear. |
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Tom Sperduto, Photographer
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Edison | NJ | USA | Posted: 8:39 PM on 09.25.08 |
->> Mike,
I am right there with you. My frustration is mounting.
I am already in the process of searching for a new place to dump my wallet into a new web site. |
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Tom Sperduto, Photographer
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Edison | NJ | USA | Posted: 8:44 PM on 09.25.08 |
->> I have requested a refund from Live Books.
I'll let you know how that goes. |
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Robert Benson, Photographer
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San Diego | CA | USA | Posted: 9:16 PM on 09.25.08 |
| ->> The founder of Livebooks weighs in on his product on my blog, www.robertbenson.com/blog, where I reviewed more than a dozen of these template websites for photographers.... |
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Craig Kohlruss, Photographer
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Fresno | CA | USA | Posted: 10:56 AM on 09.26.08 |
->> Think how I feel. I just paid for my new Livebooks site last month.
I also contacted support and got pretty much the same message as Eric. Obviously livebooks sites are falling of the Google radar because of anything intentional. Nor do I think it's any kind of error on their part. I'm no expert but as I understand it Google shifts and adjusts its algorithms continually and without notice. So some seo tactics by web design companies simply may not work anymore.
The reason I like Livebooks aside from their attractive designs, is that they do take seo seriously, yet they work toward high rankings with an honest and ethical approach.
I'm hopeful they will find a solution to this soon and help our sites come back in search results as well as ever. |
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Dinno Kovic, Photographer
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San Francisco | CA | USA | Posted: 12:34 PM on 09.26.08 |
->> Some of you may know me through my photography or more recently through liveBooks as I have been working with them for almost two years and I've been a member of Sportsshooter since 2003. I would like to post the following comment on our founder's behalf:
Dear Sports Shooter community.
I am writing to offer factual information on the issue of some liveBooks sites loosing their Google ranking.
First, I want to acknowledge your concern and frustration as a result of this mysterious change in ranking. I know how crucial search ranking is to you, and how hard many of you have worked over the years to earn the ranking you have.
As acknowledged in this thread, offering an exceptionally SEO compliant product is a top priority of ours. We have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars over the years on R&D and product updates to ensure
that liveBooks sites are as search engine compatible as possible without breaking any rules.
We were as surprised as you to learn that a number of our client sites experienced a drop in ranking, or disappeared all together from Google.
We were equally surprised, though much more relieved to see that over hours or days, many were restored to their ranking.
All in all we have received complaints from 1-2% or our clients, and of that 1-2% 1/3 of them are currently 'resolved'.
I assure you that this caused the liveBooks team great alarm, and we have assigned all appropriate resources to find out what happened and how to fix it.
This morning on the Photo Business News blog a report was posted which states that both sites made by competitors of liveBooks, and photographer sites not made by any specific company have also dropped in ranking. http://photobusinessforum.blogspot.com/2008/09/search-engines-and-your-webs...
Here are the facts to date.
We did not change anything in the liveBooks code that could cause
ranking changes. We are very careful when we update our product code and always consult with SEO experts before we make changes. Our SEO code has not been changed since the spring.
Our HTML clone sites do not violate any of Google’s rules. What Google is out to do is prevent fraud. Since our HTML site simply takes the content from your Flash site and presents it in
an HTML layout, there is no fraud.
As for a reason, our best guess is that Google is adjusting their ranking priorities and this has effected some of our clients. Why some, not others, why the drop off and come back, we don’t know.
We have hired our SEO consulting firm to investigate all the liveBooks sites that were effected and see if
they can find a definitive cause. When we have the results of this investigation, we will share any helpful information with our clients.
From my perspective we are in this together as our success is dependent on your success.
My team and I thank you for your understanding and support.
-Michael Costuros, Founder, liveBooks inc. |
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Tom Sperduto, Photographer
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Edison | NJ | USA | Posted: 9:55 PM on 09.26.08 |
->> UPDATE:
As of tonight, I am once again ranking on Google.
I was literally typing in my credit card number for a new service to host my site and decided to give it one more look.
Michael Costuros, Founder of liveBooks, called me today, twice actually, and was a huge help even after I told him I was going to look for hosting elsewhere because I felt I could simply not wait for the possibility of my site returning to Google. Even after I told him I was leaving, he still spent about 15 minutes explaining to me how I can get more out of my new site even though I would be doing that with another company. Even with this strange problem, it's awesome customer service when the founder calls you and discusses the issue at length and offers you help after you tell him you are bringing your business elsewhere.
So ... things are back to normal for me, I still have no idea how it happened (the strange COMPLETE disappearance, not just a ranking drop) but I am glad it worked out, and that it happened fast enough for me to remain a livebooks customer. |
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Delane B. Rouse, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Washington | DC | US | Posted: 11:03 PM on 09.26.08 |
| ->> a google search for "toledo wedding photographer" now returns http://www.mikebrice.com/ as well... |
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Mike Brice, Photographer
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Toledo | OH | USA | Posted: 11:14 PM on 09.26.08 |
| ->> That's awesome - on my birthday no less. |
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John Harrington, Photographer
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Tom Sperduto, Photographer
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Edison | NJ | USA | Posted: 5:37 AM on 09.27.08 |
->> John,
Before we start with the "lesson learned" thread ...
It was never a question of losing position. You have been helpful, but you never understood that point and it's been made.
The problem was being REMOVED from Goggle all together. Some lost position, we were completely removed, POOF Gone.
According to Michael this was something "they had never seen before" and he, or anyone, did not know how or why it happened. They brought in a team of people to work on this.
Like I said to Michael on the phone. Regardless of how or why it happened (and I never placed blame, how can you when no one knows what happened?), I was moving my site because I could not take the chance of the problem being lengthy or worse ... not righting itself at all. Michael understood this. I was no longer a web presence and I needed to be. A couple of months without it and my $3000 investment would quickly be a loss. We even discussed the possibility of creating an entirely new site. There was always the chance that the problem would NEVER go away. it was after all, a problem never seen before and it only affected 1.5 percent of all LB users.
I planned on recreating another LB site once the problem (if ever) was corrected. I figured it couldn't hurt to have two sites and hell, I already invested the $3000 that wasn't going to be refunded for reasons I understood.
That being said, I appreciate your help and your informative e-mail. I did learn there are many additional ways I can maximize my site now that it can be found. |
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Mark Scheuern, Photographer
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Grand Blanc | MI | USA | Posted: 12:00 PM on 09.27.08 |
| ->> Woo hoo! Glad to be back! |
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Israel Shirk, Photographer, Assistant
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McCall | ID | US | Posted: 12:29 PM on 09.27.08 |
->> Tom-
It happens to everyone periodically. I'm just repeating what John has said - he's a brilliant guy, especially on this topic. He knows far more than you or I about this topic.
Google ranks based on more things than just your web site's SEO - and your site probably dropped off because there are a minimal number of links to it and the few links going to it dropped or changed. And, after it cycled through its page-caching process again it re-discovered links that may have been lost temporarily due to a huge number of factors such as availability, blackouts, spam, and/or downtime.
Again, the best thing you can do for your website is not to have two websites. That's probably not a good one at all, actually - the best thing to do is just slowly and consistently build a large number of properly keyworded links to your site from various places all over the internet. Google values this as much or more than how Livebooks or anyone else has designed your site. Even if you just post comments on blogs which contains the right keywords or include your site's address as a signature on SS, it'll make a marked improvement in rankings and/or stability.
For example:
There's a really good photographer in Boise Idaho that you could hire at http://www.AvalanchePhotography.com .
So even though my site is designed *terribly* (and a rework is in the process), I still get a significant number of hits simply because I have my site keyworded and linked well. |
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Craig Kohlruss, Photographer
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Fresno | CA | USA | Posted: 12:47 PM on 09.27.08 |
->> I think we all know you need to build quality links, include the right keywords, metadata, blog, etc. but I think it's obvious that this isn't really the issue here.
It's one thing to drop in ranks and another to be non-existent.
I am a new Livebooks client so I don't expect any miracles (Yet), but after a month online, my old site still beats out my new site using my target keywords. In fact, my new site doesn't appear at all. 20 search pages in, and no sign of it. There are Craigslist ads showing up but nothing doing on my expensive investment.
Livebooks says they're on it, so I'll wait and see. Until then, I'm hoping pay-per-click ads and other listings will get me out there. |
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Israel Shirk, Photographer, Assistant
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McCall | ID | US | Posted: 5:57 PM on 09.27.08 |
->> Thanks for the e-mail Tom. Whenever someone e-mails me, you can always expect it to end up back on the thread on which it belongs, as Chuck Liddy knows well ;)
For everyone else, here's how it reads:
"""If you read the google thread, you would have seen that the issue is NOT as you or John stated.
I respect John greatly, but he's off the mark on this one and so are you assuming you know me or my level of understanding on the issue.
Trust me, I have done my homework on this and I don't post without knowing the facts."""
Again, I disagree with you. I know my facts and have followed the entire thread. "Level of understanding"? You're kidding, right?
These things happen to EVERYONE. Not just Livebooks users. Google is not entirely predictable - there have been times I've disappeared entirely, too, for days or weeks at a time. IT HAPPENS. Google just dropped me out of their cache. Not for any reason; it just happens.
Livebooks' SEO going downhill would cause your rankings to drop, not disappear; here are a few things that could cause this to happen:
1) A problem with Google's page caching mechanism, such as a hard drive failure.
2) A network failure in between Google and Livebooks while Google attempts to cache pages from Livebooks' site.
3) A DNS lookup issue, such as a hiccup on a root server somewhere; this will look the same as a network failure.
4) Downtime on Livebooks' side, during Google's attempts to cache sites on Livebooks servers. I'd say this is the most likely problem since multiple people have had the problem. It might have lasted a few minutes or a few hours, but would have the same effect either way.
5) A glitch on Google's side in any number of areas, including but not limited to SPAM site detection, server funkiness, period of the moon, a faulty switch near the node where your site was cached, etc.
These things are normal and happen all the time to people all over the place. It's annoying, I know. But it's just like waiting at a red light. You just have to deal with it and it'll pass.
Search engines don't crawl every site every day, or anywhere near that; you can help by adjusting your robots.txt, but if for some reason something goes wrong, it just takes time for your site to get re-indexed or updated.
To demonstrate this, try changing a character in your site's title and see how long it takes for Google, Yahoo, MSN, etc to update. It ranges between a few days and a couple of weeks. You see the updates instantly, but that doesn't mean they've propogated across the internet.
These things just happen. If you give it time, you'll find it fixes itself. |
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Israel Shirk, Photographer, Assistant
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McCall | ID | US | Posted: 6:16 PM on 09.27.08 |
| ->> And to clarify - I think I totally spaced out on that first post I made. The second applies more accurately. Sorry about that everybody. |
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Tom Sperduto, Photographer
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Edison | NJ | USA | Posted: 8:40 AM on 09.28.08 |
->> Israel,
Assuming you still disagree with me and simply did not space out again ... here it goes.
No, these things just don't "happen." At least not to LB customers. If they did I wouldn't get two phone calls from the LB founder saying "WE have never seen this before."
That's been my point all along.
When people have a problem and it affects their income, it's often fruitful to learn as much as they can about the issue, thereby increasing their "level of understanding"...hence, the purpose of this thread.
Again, I respect John greatly. I pass his book along to every photographer I mentor. However, just because you respect someone greatly and they obviously know more than you on a TOPIC doesn't always mean they are right in every situation. I appreciate his help tremendously, and I likely made more money simply listening to him speak at SB2 than through my site.
So ... now that I have joined your cheerleading section (and I so hate when threads become that when people are communicating a problem and looking for solutions), I really don't understand why you had to drag this in the mud. Your 2nd post sure came across that way. And then you "clarify" that you "spaced out".
I sent you the private e-mail because you in fact HAD spaced out. I saw no benefit in sharing that with others. |
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Delane B. Rouse, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Washington | DC | US | Posted: 9:18 AM on 09.28.08 |
->> Let me say first that I d not have a livebooks site. Since I'm not associated with them, this thread seems a little odd to me because it seems like the livebooks users that post here EXPECT to be ranked #1 in a google search.
Does livebooks promise you a specific placement?
It seems logical to me that your placement might change over time. At some point you were not ranked very high right? Of course I'd want to keep my high rankings to be it seems a bit drastic to change hosting companies if you're changing because you're not ranked in the top 3. If you selected livebooks for the pretty sites they create your risk is low, but it seems like the risk is much higher if you select them based on search placement since they have no control over what google is actually looking for.
I just wanted to let you know how it appears to someone that isn't a livebooks customer.
Have Fun. Make Pictures.
http://contrastphotography.com/
dbr |
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Tom Sperduto, Photographer
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Edison | NJ | USA | Posted: 9:24 AM on 09.28.08 |
->> The issue was never rank placement.
The issue was complete disappearance.
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