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EOS1DS-MkIII
Robert Seale, Photographer
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Houston | TX | USA | Posted: 8:28 AM on 12.07.07 |
->> Has anyone purchased the new DS body yet?
If so, are there any focus issues similar to the early non-S MkIII's?
Any info is appreciated. |
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John Harrington, Photographer
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Washington | DC | USA | Posted: 6:01 PM on 12.07.07 |
->> I am testing both my 1Ds Mark III and the D3 this weekend, both of mine arrived today.
John |
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Jeremy Enlow, Photographer
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Fort Worth | TX | USA | Posted: 4:48 PM on 12.08.07 |
| ->> I received my 1ds Mark III on Monday and have not had any focus issues so far in multiple lighting conditions. I've been really happy with it. |
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Cameron Davidson, Photographer
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Matthias Hangst, Photographer
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Asperg/Germany | BW | Germany | Posted: 9:36 PM on 12.08.07 |
->> dear robert,
after 3 mark III (and i all gave them back because of the af-problems), i am using my 1ds-mkIII since 9 days now and you can not believe how happy i am to have a working camery now. have done boxing, low-light soccer-matches and a magazine-story and it all looks very good. now problems with ai-servo. very good. so...go for it. |
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Steve Violette, Photographer
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Gulf Breeze | FL | USA | Posted: 7:01 AM on 12.14.07 |
->> Anybody else comment on the 1DsMark III performance?
Also - anybody have a local shop with one in stock. My local shop says 6-8 weeks |
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Cameron Davidson, Photographer
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Arlington | VA | USA | Posted: 11:22 AM on 12.14.07 |
->> My 1Ds III rocks on focus. It is faster and hits focus right on the money.
I was number six on the list from the store I bought it from and they are getting a few per week. Mine was in the second shipment. I am number three on the list at another dealer and he has only received two bodies so far.
I think the wait list is going to be pretty significant. |
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Bob Croslin, Photographer
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St. Petersburg | FL | USA | Posted: 9:45 PM on 12.15.07 |
->> Cam,
How do the files stack up versus the MF digital backs you've used? How's sharpness and the MK III's ability to hold highlights? |
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Josh Lehrer, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Rochester | NY | USA | Posted: 12:26 AM on 12.16.07 |
->> I'll be doing a test of the 1dsMk3 vs P21 and P45 backs on H2 bodies within the coming days, similar to my mk3 vs d3 test.
Just a heads up
JL |
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Cameron Davidson, Photographer
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Arlington | VA | USA | Posted: 2:40 AM on 12.16.07 |
->> BOB CROSLIN SAID: "How do the files stack up versus the MF digital backs you've used? How's sharpness and the MK III's ability to hold highlights?"
I have not compared the files to the P30 files. The P30 is physically larger than the 35mm size chip and the file size is 9- megs at 8 bit versus the 60 megs of the Mark III. I would not even think about comparing them. It really is an apple and organ comparison.
12 bit versus 14 bit. Big difference. You can see it in the shadows and highlights.
The AF is faster and feels more accurate. The files are pretty sweet. I use Raw Developer as my primary converter or Capture One. Not sure if C1 is updated for the MIII. RD is very good for pulling out the maximum detail in files.
The camera feels like a really well-designed upgrade to the Mark II. Not an overhaul by any means. Twenty-six percent increase in resolution. Better AF. More highlight and shadow detail. Much better menu system. It feels like Canon listened to their customers and implemented the changes the customers needed.
For the type of work I do, I prefer the Canon solution over MF. Just the way I shoot. The P30 is a killer back, incredible color, contrast and range. But it is a different way of working than with the Canon. There are benefits to both systems (as you know). The speed of the Canon plus the ability to use Photo Mechanic or Aperture for ingest, meta data, rename, web gallery is a very strong benefit to me. You loose some of the speed with the MF backs but you do gain in the amazing quality.
You see comments written saying that the Canon is a medium-format killer. In my opinion, It is not. It is a very good system. I prefer it. (Still would not mind a 555ELX with a P30 on it though if Santa is reading this list.) |
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Josh Lehrer, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Rochester | NY | USA | Posted: 2:49 AM on 12.16.07 |
->> I'll agree with Mr. Davidson completely. MF digital backs and any 35mm dslr don't really merit much comparison in many respects, but that doesn't mean it isn't fun!
From the past week of shooting with the 1ds Mark 3, a Leaf Aptus 65, and Phase One P21 and P45, I'll say I am very impressed with how I can use a camera than handles so well, yet produces a file of such high quality. I definitely feel more comfortable with a 1-series body in my hands in any situation. But that's just me.
More to come.
JL |
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Bob Croslin, Photographer
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St. Petersburg | FL | USA | Posted: 11:07 AM on 12.20.07 |
| ->> For those of you shooting with the 1Ds MKIII is the 9 frame buffer with raw files an issue? I just read the buffer spec and I'm shocked it's so low. |
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Bob Croslin, Photographer
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St. Petersburg | FL | USA | Posted: 11:11 AM on 12.20.07 |
| ->> The spec I read appears to be wrong - the raw buffer is 12 frames. I'm still wondering if it's an issue? Seems low to me. |
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Vincent Laforet, Photographer
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New York | NY | USA | Posted: 11:26 AM on 12.20.07 |
| ->> The buffer is an issue for me - but it was as well with the 1Ds MKII - while the buffer is slightly improved in the newer body - the files are 40% larger - the CR2s have gone from an average of 15 MB to 21MB ... I DEFINITELY notice an immediate difference when I use the faster 300X Lexar cards over the 133 x cards also - I know that the slower cards are in the camera when I'm shooting with the 133X non UDMA cards... |
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Matt Cashore, Photographer
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South Bend | IN | USA | Posted: 1:26 PM on 12.20.07 |
| ->> When you're trying to do a 1Ds Mk III vs. MF back comparison, doesn't the sharpness of the lenses become the largest issue? Whenever I have daydreamed about a medium-format back it wasn't because I wanted a larger file size, it was because I wanted sharper glass. Canon's wide angle lenses have always left me somewhat disappointed. I've tried zooms, primes, back to zooms and nothing has really impressed me. Not long ago I had lunch with a longtime portrait photographer in my area. He'd recently made the move from all-Hasselblad film to the 1Ds. He was at his wits' end because he felt his pictures were not satisfactorily sharp. He asked me, essentially, "Is this as good as it gets?" (Meaning the lenses) and my response was "Unfortunately, yes..." |
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Stephen Lam, Student/Intern, Photographer
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San Francisco | CA | USA | Posted: 3:44 PM on 12.20.07 |
->> For all the DsIII owners, Canon had just released a firmware update for the DsMkIII today as well.
http://tinyurl.com/yqtlu2
merry christmas! |
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Bob Croslin, Photographer
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St. Petersburg | FL | USA | Posted: 4:49 PM on 12.20.07 |
->> Matt,
I've been shooting medium format digi for the last 2 years and IMO the knock on the Canon glass is way over blown. The big difference you see in sharpness between a Canon 1Ds and a medium format back has to do with the anti-alias filter on the Canon and lack of on the medium format backs. The best Canon L glass will keep up with most Mamiya 645 and Hassy H glass. There's a few exceptions with the Canon ultra wides and wide zooms getting a little wonky in the corners but for 99% of editorial and ad work a 1Ds MKII file looks the same ink-on-paper as a $30k Leaf, Phase or Hassy back.
The big difference you see in sharpness between a Canon 1Ds and a medium format back has to do with the anti-alias filter on the Canon and lack of on the medium format back. With just a little low level sharpening the 1Ds files are in the same ballpark as a Leaf or Phase file.
Where Canon has the Leaf and Phase backs beat hands down is in practical use. I've owned 3 Leaf backs and 2 Mamiya ZD back's and all had major issues with camera communication, cf card formatting, tethered shooting and just locking up for absolutely zero reason. My joke is that I always start a shoot with medium format digital and end with a Canon. I've owned so many backs because it always takes me at least one swap out to get a back that works.
I unfortunately approached my decision on going medium format digital based on this romantic notion of what medium format means to me rather than the realities of what medium format digital can actually do. An Aptus or Phase back will indeed give you a superior file to a 1Ds MKII and probably even the MKIII but not by an order of magnitudes. My gripe with the Canons has always been highlight clipping but with the 14-bit file this doesn't seem be as much of an issue. Given the hassle and price medium format digi just isn't worth it IMO. |
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Cameron Davidson, Photographer
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Arlington | VA | USA | Posted: 5:56 PM on 12.20.07 |
->> I have to agree with Bob in his post above.
My biggest gripe with the IDs II was the problems with highlights blowing out. I am incredibly pleased with the 1Ds III. I owned a P30 and currently own M8's. Both of them are very good 14/16bit machines and I could see a huge difference in the highlights and shadows. While the P30 was beyond killer in depth, color and sharpness, I disliked the workflow. The Leica is a beast upon itself. (and worthy of a long discussion on the trails and tribulations of being faithful to the heritage of E. Leitz)
If you process your Canon 1Ds III files in DPP or Raw Developer, you are going to see some very crisp images: given that you shoot them with an L lens at a decent f/stop.
I bought into the whole Medium Format myth also. I just sold the last of it.
For me, the Canon's work. They work with Photo Mechanic and I have a wide choice of Raw Developers to choose from. Besides the 14 bit capture (which is critical) you have a faster engine, more resolution, a decent LCD and a very big viewfinder. |
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Robert Seale, Photographer
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Houston | TX | USA | Posted: 3:12 PM on 12.22.07 |
->> Great info guys....thanks!...I'm not hearing of the same focusing problems with the new S body. That's a relief. Before I plunk down 8 grand for this thing, I want to make sure it doesn't have the same issues as the regular Mk III.
Cameron....quick question: do your files look better using DPP or Raw Developer than processing in Lightroom or CS3? Bob, what are you using to convert your Raw files?
BTW, i would love to hear about your M8 experience.....I'm waiting on the full frame digital M camera (if they ever create one!). |
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Bob Croslin, Photographer
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St. Petersburg | FL | USA | Posted: 4:13 PM on 12.22.07 |
->> Robert,
I use a combination of things for raws but Lightroom is the one app that I use the most for simplicities sake. For Leaf files I use LC11, Canon I use Lightroom/ ACR and I've occasionally used Raw Developer which is a killer little piece of software. I haven't used Canon DPP in a long time but it's always done a better job of converting Canon files then anything else. It produces the best skin tones but it's also slow and clunky.
I have a recent shoot with lots of skin (bikinis!) that I think I'm going to run through the latest version of DPP to see if Canon's made any progress.
and....I have a 1Ds MKIII on the way so I can report back on the things that mean the most to me - sharpness and highlights. |
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Bob Croslin, Photographer
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St. Petersburg | FL | USA | Posted: 4:37 PM on 12.26.07 |
| ->> Anyone happen to have a "cheat sheet" for the AF settings for the 1D, Ads MKIII? |
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Cameron Davidson, Photographer
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Arlington | VA | USA | Posted: 7:33 PM on 12.26.07 |
->> Robert
I've used Raw Developer and Capture One v 4 for the Ds III files. For the M8 I use RD or C1 3.7. I did try a few images with the new ACR and I was pleasantly surprised at how good they looked. I still prefer C1 as my go-to processor.
I am fifty-fifty on the M8 You can not over-sharpen the files and expect to get away with it. Raw Processing is tricky with it - suggestions that were passed on to me and seem to work include - no sharpening - reduce or eliminate noise reduction.
On the downside - I do not care for the "sound" of the M8. It is much louder than my M4 or M6. I hate the idea of using the filters and coding the lenses. Needed. I'm tempted to sell my M8 bodies, go back to my M4 and wait for the next generation of camera. There seems to be so much of "not quite there" built-in to the camera or just plain compromise. Frankly, the lenses are killer but there is a learning curve to the system.
DPP is fantastic for color. It is cumbersome and different in layout than any other piece of software. Canon has come a long way with it and I like it. |
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Cameron Davidson, Photographer
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Arlington | VA | USA | Posted: 7:40 PM on 12.26.07 |
->> Follow up -
I agree with Bob (I also experienced the whole Medium-Format myth/fable/story) FOR my type of work, the Canon is the way to go - the key is to use L glass. If you use a polarizer - get a B+H or Nikkor. Nothing else works as well or is as sharp.
If you are in a studio or shooting car production or the type of work where medium format shines, go for it. Some people think it is all about the gear. I don't feel that it is and I do not believe that art directors are impressed or disappointed with your kit. Content and ability to produce the shoot (IMO) are the most important parts of the shoot, not that I spent 25K on a back that is marginally better for my type of work.
If you want to read something very funny and also depressing, go the the medium format forum at the Luminous-Landscape site and read the circular arguments going on between the MF defenders and people asking questions - esp in the Canon 1Ds III test against a MF back.
The Canon rocks for what and how I shoot. |
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Bob Croslin, Photographer
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St. Petersburg | FL | USA | Posted: 10:46 PM on 12.26.07 |
->> I processed a few of my bikini shoot files through Canon DPP and was blown away by how nice they look. DPP also seems to have come a long way from the last time I used it and was much snappier than I remembered.
The thing with medium digital is that it's great when you have a large budget and you can rent a back with a digital tech to go along with it. Medium digital is way too glitchy to be dependable but the files shine. Problem is that you never know when the camera/back/software will fail and leave your ass hanging out in the wind.
The Canons (and Nikons) just work, period. You push the button and they shoot and in my world that's all the client wants to hear.
btw - still looking for AF setting advice for my 1Ds MKIII. |
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Robert Benson, Photographer
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San Diego | CA | USA | Posted: 12:03 AM on 01.05.08 |
->> I'd like to get Bob and Cameron's opinion.... Specifically on the medium format "myth".
I want to upgrade from my 5d. Images I shoot would be mainly portraiture/stock. Dont need wicked speed. My choices are:
-1dsmkII
-1dsmkIII
-older medium format back (like a Kodak pro DCS 645 back or H25)
I've heard the image quality is better on the 5d when compared to the 1dsmkII. Have to stay under $8k. I like the look of medium format, the shallow depth of field, etc....
Basically, i'm a bit torn between high res DSLR and older medium format backs. I read above that Bob and maybe Cameron have sold off their medium format digital backs. Any regrets? |
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Robb Williamson, Photographer
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Denver | CO | USA | Posted: 10:12 PM on 01.07.08 |
->> I just received my first 1ds3 last week from Jody at Roberts. Great camera and although the updates are subtle, worth the extra cash. I just found my second one today. I've been on the list since last Jan.
Besides the obvious bump in resolution, I really think the live view is priceless. The bump to 5 fps is also very noticeable. We older guys used to get great images of sports with the F1's, Eos 1's and 1n's. So this with the much faster AF really makes this camera useful on the field and in fast moving PJ applications.
I've already benefitted from the liveview function in checking critical focus at 10x with the 24 f 1.4. No guessing on if it's sharp where you need it. You know right there. You can also see the exposure comp as you dial it in on the back LCD as well.
I really love the viewfinder which puts you in the frame with your view rather than seeing the black box. Everything is noticeably bigger at 100%.
No dust yet at 1000 frames. The batteries are very light.
Image quality is cleaner. I can shoot any ISO even for commercial clients. I am using lightroom waiting for phase one to update, 3.7.8...
Much better control layout. Sorry if I am reiterating what others have said, but I am impressed and look forward to the run with these.
Just waiting on that 800 and 200 f 2 to put on the front. Can't wait for the 2008 motoGP season. Go ducati.
Robb Williamson
www.williamsonimages.com
Denver, Colorado |
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Michael Fischer, Photographer
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Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 9:02 AM on 01.08.08 |
->> While I posess exactly none of the products in this discussion, I found it very informative and interesting. The fact that, for many users, medium format offers little in the way of real world advantage is incredible and disheartning at the same time.
I still love Hassy lenses, although it's been a while since I've either shot or owned one. From the discussion, it would appear that, for many, there's just no compelling reason to own medium format. Do I understand correctly? |
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Bob Croslin, Photographer
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St. Petersburg | FL | USA | Posted: 11:23 AM on 01.08.08 |
->> Michael,
There's no reason to own IMO because you can always rent the medium rigs when needed. It's a different tool than the 1Ds MKIII albeit one that is far from having the kinks worked out. |
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Kent Smith, Photographer
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Charlotte | NC | USA | Posted: 11:34 AM on 01.08.08 |
->> What is the best price people have seen on this camera? I have waiting to make sure there were no problems on this camera.
Thanks for the help. |
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David Seelig, Photographer
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Hailey | ID | USA | Posted: 1:07 PM on 01.08.08 |
| ->> HI Robb Phase one has upgraded to 4.0 for free it wroks fine with 1ds 111 files |
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Robert Seale, Photographer
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Houston | TX | USA | Posted: 1:10 PM on 01.08.08 |
| ->> Does anyone have the EOS1Ds3 in stock?....any ETA on when they might be shipping again? |
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Bob Croslin, Photographer
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St. Petersburg | FL | USA | Posted: 2:41 PM on 01.08.08 |
| ->> I bought mine from Roberts for $7299 but I believe they've upped the price to $7399. Call Jody for the low down. |
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Tony Rawlings, Photographer
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Foothill Ranch (Irvine) | CA | US | Posted: 3:21 PM on 01.08.08 |
| ->> Jody from Roberts is a great guy to buy from. |
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Bob Croslin, Photographer
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St. Petersburg | FL | USA | Posted: 3:36 PM on 01.08.08 |
| ->> Someone else told me they were able to get one from Newegg.com. |
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Robb Williamson, Photographer
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Denver | CO | USA | Posted: 3:48 PM on 01.08.08 |
->> David, I downloaded the beta version of Capture One 4.0 and I really did not like the changes. It felt like a totally different program and was not the pro version of Capture One.
I have had bugs with the beta version and also the full version of 4.0 which is not their pro version.
I will wait patiently for their update to their pro software of Capture One. I'd be happy to keep 3.7 going with just a camera update... Aperture is very nice in the meantime.
Robert, I bought my cameras from Jody at Roberts (those guys are great and the best for ss members) and from Rich at PhotoVillage in New York. They get them in every Thursday morning. I believe they are through their list so you could be next up this week... My serial #'s are 2,000 apart so Canon is starting to move their cameras.
Englewood Camera and Mike's Camera in my neck of the woods has ordered some and may have them in soon. Keep them in mind.
I have seen them briefly available from amazon.com different nights fairly late.
I also wanted to second Vincent's note that my 300x Lexar cards are much faster to clear the buffer than my 133x cards.
I thought long and hard about picking up a Phase P45 back but the 1DS3 is closing the gap more and is so versatile and quick to operate (and use with moving subjects) that I'll stick with those unless a very specific need causes me to rent a Phase.
Robb Williamson
www.williamsonimages.com
Denver, Colorado |
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Bob Croslin, Photographer
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St. Petersburg | FL | USA | Posted: 7:31 PM on 01.09.08 |
| ->> I'll second buying from Rich at Photo Village in NYC. |
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