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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Help with D200 focusing
Rick Hiebert, Photographer
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Winkler | Manitoba | Canada | Posted: 3:07 AM on 11.17.07 |
->> What settings are suggested for action sports like hockey shot at ice level when using C continous Focusing.
I've been having trouble with the perfectly in focus area being most often 2 - 4 feet behind the player if he's skating towards me, or the boards in the background (the player is totally covering the center focus area).
My equipment: Nikon D200 with Nikkor 70-200 F2.8 VR lens.
Camera settings: Focus C, Single Area Focus, 3D color matrix exposure, AF-C Mode Priority at Focus, Lock-On at either Long or Normal, 320 shutter, F2.8, iso 1250. VR on.
Does anyone else experience this. It's not lens shake, as another player skating just behind the intended subject is perfectly in focus. Over 50% of my images have the intended target slightly out of focus.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. |
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Geoffrey Bolte, Photographer, Assistant
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Spencer | MA | USA | Posted: 10:35 AM on 11.17.07 |
->> For one I Would turn the VR off. It is of no help and could be a hinderence. That would be the first place to start. Also the D200 does have an issue of tracking a subject coming towards you.
I would start with the VR off, and then go from there.
Another thing would be to bump up the shutter speed, which will include increasing ISO. |
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Joseph Brymer, Photographer
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Lincolnton | NC | usa | Posted: 11:53 AM on 11.17.07 |
| ->> I've got the same problem. The camera is at NPS right now. The autofoucus system had to be totaly replaced about two months ago, now it's acting screwy again. They say it's some type of autofocus coupler. We'll see what happens. The camera had been great up till this started happening. |
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Ben Mackey, Photographer, Assistant
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Columbia | MD | USA | Posted: 11:56 AM on 11.17.07 |
->> Rick,
Contradicting what Geoffrey said about bumping the up the shutter speed, try not shooting wide open. When I'm behind hockey glass with an 80-200/2.8, my D200 shots are sharper at 3.2 instead of 2.8. You get more sharpening than you'd get from a one third stop increase in aperture. My guess is that the hockey glass is another element in the optical train and stopping down just reduces the impact of that scratched up 3x5' puck filter.
Good luck. |
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Geoffrey Bolte, Photographer, Assistant
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Spencer | MA | USA | Posted: 1:04 PM on 11.17.07 |
->> Ben,
That does make a little more sense, I'm posting in between hockey games in a tournament at the moment snd read it quick, didn't put much thought into it. Should have just looked at what I have been shooting. Little more depth of field would do that for you.
My settings for today are ISO 640, 1/320th, f3.2-3.5, its nice to be shooting at a decent rink.
Still the D2oo isn't well know for tracking things running/moving at you. |
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Matthew Ginn, Photographer
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Portland | OR | USA | Posted: 1:20 PM on 11.17.07 |
->> I have had exactly the same focusing issue with the same equipment as Rick, for several different sports.
Bumping up the shutter speed isn't going to solve the problem because the image is in focus--just not in the right place.
Ben's suggestion of stopping the lens down a bit is more in the right direction, simply because it will increase the DOF. But that's not much consolation in a gym that's already 1/250 at f/2.8, ISO3200.
Another work-around is to focus on something a bit in front of your target, but that's next to impossible in a moving situation.
I've tried VR on and off without much difference. I've tried using the various focus area settings without much difference. I even left my body and lens with the local camera tech, who couldn't find any particular issue. Eventually I accepted the problem as user error, but I've been trying to fix that without much success. It would be a great relief to know that there is a problem with the camera. |
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Paul Anderson, Photographer
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Münster | Germany | Germany | Posted: 2:21 PM on 11.17.07 |
->> Hello Rick,
I have several ideas that might help you.
The first is the 70-200. It is a bit slow to focus. If you plan to shoot a lot of hockey think about renting a 200f2 and make a test with it. The extra stop of light really helps the D200 AF. The 200f2 will show you how slow the 70-200 really is.
You can shoot the 200f2 @ 2.2 and get really sharp images.
The extra 2/3 of a stop of light will let you up your shutter speed and lower your ISO.
Your next issue is your AF setup.
AF-C Focus is correct.
set...
a3 - Wide Frame
a4 - Pattern 1 Center Area
a5 - Off
Are you shooting RAW images? If not, try using Photo Mechanic to preview and Capture NX to do you basic editing.
If you shoot RAW images you can cheat and under expose a little and then correct with Capture. This might help you lower your ISO to 800 or 640.
Fell free to contact me directly if you need any other help.
Thanks, Paul |
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Fj Hughes, Photographer, Assistant
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Baltimore | MD | USA | Posted: 9:36 PM on 11.17.07 |
->> I had a similar problem with my D200 and both the 70-200 F2.8 VR and 300 F2.8 lenses. I actually sent me camera back to Nikon and they made some adjustments to the image sensor. There was a noticeable improvement in the accuracy of the auto focus. It still is not the best but at least now I am getting better than 50/50. It is becoming apparent that digital cameras need to be adjusted regularly to perform optimally.
Personally I have had good luck with the vibration reduction.
I would not recommend underexposing. This will actually increase noise and create the possibility of banding in the image. When shooting raw, digital captures actually should slightly overexposed. |
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Rick Hiebert, Photographer
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Winkler | Manitoba | Canada | Posted: 10:31 PM on 11.17.07 |
->> Thanks for all the replies.
The ideas of stopping down to F/3.2 is good, but my arena light is limiting. My cameras noise isn't bad at all at iso 1250, but at 1600 it makes a significant jump. I doubt that it has a lot to do with getting more light in. I've shot horse/rider galloping towards me in bright evening sunshine, and I can still see the grass just behind the horse is perfectly in focus. Those settings are 1/1000, F/4, iso 400, VR off.
Paul, I've never tried your a3-wide frame, or a5-off settings, so I'll try that.
When setting AF to a4-Pattern 1 Center Area do you also have to set the Area Mode switch on the camera back to Dynamic or Group Dynamic to make that work?
As Matthew says, it's really a focus thing...but if one can adjust the camera to focus faster that might help. It's almost like a "lazy lens" thing...just lagging a bit.
But then there's that thing about the camera liking to focus on the contrasting advertisements on the boards, even if the intended target is covering the center focus area. This is where I'm hoping Paul's advise might help.
Lets hope the D3/300 will have fixed all these issues. |
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Paul Anderson, Photographer
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Münster | Germany | Germany | Posted: 12:43 AM on 11.18.07 |
->> Hello Rick,
You may have a real back focus issue. I had one with my D200. I had NPS adjust my camera. You need to make some focus tests of non-moving objects. Use your longest lens open one stop and shoot RAWs. Look for a point of focus.
I shoot a lot of horses. I find the D200 works best if I focus on the horse's head when I shoot show jumping. If I focus on the head then something behind the head is always in-focus and a little unsharp mask makes it all look good.
Paul |
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Fj Hughes, Photographer, Assistant
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Baltimore | MD | USA | Posted: 7:59 AM on 11.18.07 |
| ->> Actually, my D200 was focusing fine on a static subject.It would only back focus on a moving one. When you get some downtime, definitely send it in. |
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Rick Hiebert, Photographer
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Winkler | Manitoba | Canada | Posted: 10:59 AM on 11.18.07 |
->> Thanks again. It will go to NPS tomorrow.
My D200 on AF-C is soft on static subjects as well. At AF-S it's sharp as a tack.
I still have this question about the setting that Paul mentioned. If in Menu you set AF a4 to Pattern 1 Center area, do you also have to set the Area Mode switch on the camera back to Dynamic or Group Dynamic for the a4 instruction to work? If the Area Mode switch is set on Single Area, will that nulify the a4 setting?
Where do you guys set your Area Mode switch when shooting action sports? |
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Matthew Ginn, Photographer
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Portland | OR | USA | Posted: 1:03 PM on 11.18.07 |
->> As stated in the manual (p. 149), "This option controls how focus areas are grouped in group dynamic-AF ...". That's the one with the little diamond in the symbol (second from the top). So yes, the a4 setting is irrelevant if you're working in any of the other three focus modes.
I've tried all of the settings other than fully-automatic-let-the-camera-pick-the-target focus (mainly trying to solve the focus problems discussed above). They have just the effect you'd think--Single Area focus is the most precise, but if the subject moves off the focus point, it will refocus.
Dynamic Area is a hybrid of Single Area and fully-automatic focus: you get to pick the starting point, but if the target goes out of that space, the camera will pick something from anywhere else in the frame.
Group Dynamic is somewhere between Dynamic Area and Single Area--you get to pick the general area of the frame, and the camera will only focus on something in that sector. That's where the a4 settings come into play--you have two choices for the shape of those areas, and the option to start focusing on the center of the selected area or let the camera pick.
These days I've been using mostly Single Area focus, but it might be time to try the other ones again and see how that goes. |
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Rick Hiebert, Photographer
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Winkler | Manitoba | Canada | Posted: 12:31 AM on 11.19.07 |
->> Ah yes, thanks for clarifying that for me.
I've read on other threads, that photogs like to have as much as control as possible and let the camera do as little thinking as possible. Hence, I've also been using Single Area most of the time. As AF likes to use high contrast areas to lock onto for auto focusing, it likes advertisements on the boards as compared to hockey jerseys or pants, it seems. In Dynamic Area I've often seen the boards in focus and the player in the center of the photo out of focus.
I've usually placed the Focus Lock-On a5 to either Long or Normal, hoping that once the camera AF locks onto the player, even if the player temporarily leaves the Center Area, the camera will remain there and not constantly try to refocus. What I'm left wondering is...does all this slow the focus tracking down?
Another question: Does the D2hs have a different auto focus system? It's owners seem happy with it's AF-C. |
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