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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Benchmark at SS
Derrick den Hollander, Photographer
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Melbourne | VIC | AUSTRALIA | Posted: 12:44 AM on 11.12.07 |
->> I'm relatively new to SS, I think my membership is about 9 months in now. I found it pretty tough getting a membership - my original application was knocked back, so I worked on my images and captioning, and a sponsor (Thanks Jamie!) got me in the door. I've done my best to maintain that benchmark ever since.
I'm finding now I'm scratching my head a little - I've looked at the more recent new members, and current member gallery updates, and I'm a touch bemused at what I see.
The lack of image titles and captioning really bugs me - perhaps people are a little lazy, a little too busy, to set a standard for Sports and PJ photographers.
I'm also a little bemused that shooters outside the USA seem to have less chance getting featured on SS covering a sport watched by millions, yet High School shooters get featured covering a game watched by hundreds at best.
Has the direction of SS changed, or am I just having a less than stellar day? Is my perception of what SS is a little off the mark? I don't mean to be critical of anyone or the SS owners, but I'm struggling trying to determine what the benchmark here is, or if it has indeed changed over the year. |
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Jason Ivester, Photographer
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Springdale | AR | USA | Posted: 1:30 AM on 11.12.07 |
->> "I'm also a little bemused that shooters outside the USA seem to have less chance getting featured on SS covering a sport watched by millions, yet High School shooters get featured covering a game watched by hundreds at best."
The size and importance of the event doesn't make a photo better. Just because it's a photo of an important event "watched by millions" does not necessarily mean it's a good photo and deserving of being featured on the SS.com front page. |
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Colter Ray, Student/Intern, Photographer
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San Marcos | TX | United States | Posted: 1:40 AM on 11.12.07 |
->> I agree with Derrick. I was also surprised to see an overall decline in the quality of work of people being let in. I got in unsponsored about half a year ago and I thought it was a great accomplishment, but the more I see some of the work being put up, the less I think about that prior achievement.
Just my $.02
PS - how do you become a senior member? |
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Jason Ivester, Photographer
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Springdale | AR | USA | Posted: 1:49 AM on 11.12.07 |
->> Colter, for the senior member status, this is from:
http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/1279
"This is a special status that is awarded to a member based on a variety of factors. Some of them include: the length of time that person has been a member; the willingness and/or demonstrated desire for this member to contribute to the community by helping others; the amount of time remaining on a persons membership; conduct that exemplifies the kind of professionalism that the administrators feel is in keeping with the mission of the site."
-jason |
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Drew Broadley, Photographer
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Wellington | NZ | New Zealand | Posted: 2:13 AM on 11.12.07 |
->> Derrick, been here for over a year and I thought the same thing after I joined (without a sponsor, boy did I put some legwork in).
I felt that the new members around the same time as me didn't really show anything new from what I had seen for a year or so prior to joining.
I wont discount them though, because some people are amazing behind the camera but just haven't quite got the publishing to the web thing down and it doesn't lend justice to their photos. |
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Derrick den Hollander, Photographer
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Melbourne | VIC | AUSTRALIA | Posted: 3:48 AM on 11.12.07 |
->> Thanks Jason,
I think an event witnessed by very few, like a PJ's car accident coverage or a major disaster, might make front page - so I agree, quality of images certainly should play a part, whether witnessed by millions or just one.
Having looked at a few of the features however, I wonder sometimes if that is indeed the criteria. It might be a persoanl opinion (as photography can be subjective) but I think the best sports action picture, can be made or broken by a background - and a few people wandering around or empty seats can kill an image. I've some great sports pictures, with peak action, but have'nt done anything with them due to poor backgrounds.
Anyway, it's just an observation I'm airing, based on my own personal experiences. Thanks to everyone who has submitted their own viewpoint. Popular or not, I do feel it is relevant to our international membership.
As I've mentioned, I don't intend to denigrate anyone's work or opinions, I'm just trying to establish for myself what the minimum standard is - so as to attempt to raise my own personal standards. |
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Jean Finley, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Iowa City | IA | USA | Posted: 12:02 PM on 11.12.07 |
->> Quick question for Derrick -
Why did you join? What did you hope to get out of your membership? |
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G.J. McCarthy, Photographer
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Dallas | TX | USA | Posted: 12:11 PM on 11.12.07 |
| ->> Glass houses ... |
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Andrew Wilz, Photographer
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Aspen | CO | usa | Posted: 1:03 PM on 11.12.07 |
| ->> ...glad someone finally said something about this. Wish there were less high-school stuff, and more insane F1/MotoGP, Rallye, Soccer, Action Sports, etc.. coverage. ..Pity. |
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Jason Braverman, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Atlanta | GA | USA | Posted: 1:16 PM on 11.12.07 |
->> You guys also have to remember that everyone has to start somewhere. Many photographers who are just starting out in the field are young and hungry. They are using SportsShooter as a valuable resource and (hopefully) a motivational tool.
I would also like to second Jason Ivester's comment:
"The size and importance of the event doesn't make a photo better. Just because it's a photo of an important event "watched by millions" does not necessarily mean it's a good photo and deserving of being featured on the SS.com front page." |
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Wesley R. Bush, Photographer
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Nashville | TN | U.S. | Posted: 1:27 PM on 11.12.07 |
| ->> I don't know of a site with more professionalism than this one. I feel proud to be a part of it. I was talking to a guy the other day while shooting soccer and asked him if he'd ever heard of SportsShooter. He said," oh, you're a sportsshooter?" The key word to me was the word "a". He recognized the site and automatically associated me with no telling how many quality shooters out there, deserved or not. |
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Fj Hughes, Photographer, Assistant
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Baltimore | MD | USA | Posted: 2:04 PM on 11.12.07 |
->> G.J McCarthy wrote, "Glass houses ..." Ouch, I'm not sure that was called for.
I have to agree there is a preponderance of main stream American sports highlighted on the front page. I know there are a lot of SS members who are shooting less media driven sports and are fantastic. It would be great to see them get featured sometimes.
That being said. I love seeing everybody's work. The best thing about SS is the range of photographers who are members. From students to seasoned pros. Where else does such a community exist? I too am proud to be part of it. |
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Cody Buckalew, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Red Wing | MN | USA | Posted: 2:12 PM on 11.12.07 |
->> In response to:
...glad someone finally said something about this. Wish there were less high-school stuff, and more insane F1/MotoGP, Rallye, Soccer, Action Sports, etc.. coverage. ..Pity.
As much as I love looking at all the F1, Ralley, Soccer pictures on this site, I am not in a position where I can shoot them. Unless of course, it is high school soccer.
My point is: I think we are seeing a lot of High School coverage on this site because most shooters are covering a lot of high school stuff.
I know I would leap at the opportunity to shoot motosports or professional anything as I would assume most members would. |
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Andrew Bright, Photographer
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Auckland | New Zealand | New Zealand | Posted: 2:23 PM on 11.12.07 |
| ->> I agree with you Derrick. I think there needs to be more attention paid to new and existing member galleries. And I'd also like to see more non football/basketball work featured here. I think people have been derailed a touch by the audience comment, but your point about non mainstream work failing to achieve any attention registers with me too. |
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Allan Campbell, Photographer, Assistant
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Salem | OR | USA | Posted: 2:36 PM on 11.12.07 |
->> Currently Cool is picked out by the staff based on what they think is interesting, funny, strange, or just plain cool. They seem to choose based on what pops into the Recently Updated area on the front page.... If you want to appear on the Front page more often all you have to do is update your pictures more often. There is a timer involved so you will not be able to appear in the list more than once in 24 hours I believe.
I notice that the SS members from Oregon get featured often on the front page... Is it due to the SS staff loving Oregon? I think not... More likely it is because Oregon have some of the best shooters we have on SS in my opinion. Guys like Bruce Ely, Thomas Boyd, Brian Davies, Craig Mitchell, Sol Neelman and Chris Pietsch they all have a distinct vision and bring something special to the board. They get featured because of how they shoot not what they shoot.
As far as prep sports go, where else do you get the amount of access you can have? Some really great photos can be made because you can get close, have access and try new things. It is funny that when you are starting out all you have access to is prep sports, and you want to shoot the pros. Once you get to a level to be shooting college and pros all you can think of is how great the access is at prep sports. No vests, no dotted line, no security.
Why worry about what everyone else is doing, concentrate on your best work and post it. Maybe you will catch someone's eye and get featured, then again maybe not. Really what does it matter...... |
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G.J. McCarthy, Photographer
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Dallas | TX | USA | Posted: 2:45 PM on 11.12.07 |
->> "Ouch, I'm not sure that was called for."
Sorry, didn't mean to be curt, but I stand by my comment.
Red flags always go up in my brain when people start complaining about stuff like this. I know some quality photographers have left this site over the years I've been on board, but a lot of really talented folks have come in their place. It's a cyclical site.
As Jason noted, everyone has to start somewhere. Why not be more inclusive about helping out people who are starting out in this biz or in need of some guidance?
Personally, I think it lacks class on a lot of levels to make a thread like this. Worry about yourself and your work and don't waste time looking down at that of others.
- gerry - |
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Whitney Woodward, Student/Intern
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Orem | UT | USA | Posted: 4:30 PM on 11.12.07 |
->> As a newer member to this site, a high school sports-shooter and a college student I felt compelled to post...
I would love to be shooting in the Majors, but personally dont have access to many Pro events. I have covered several in my time but mostly its high school sports. I cover high school sports because its where I got my start stringing for a local newspaper, because its where I have fine tuned my craft and continue to every game, because its where I have been able to practie what I am learning in school and from books and magazines and from other great photographers on this site. To sum it up, these HS sports are giving me the practice and expertise I am going to need to succeed as a great PJ.
I'll tell you one thing, these high school athletes make it just as exciting to cover as the Majors because they play just as hard. Maybe not at the same level or with as much finesse, but with the same amount of heart and that makes for great images!
I love covering High School sports and think that there are many great HS sports images out there, maybe not as good as the Majors, but when is the last time you saw a remote set up at the high school level? (Gonna try it next week :-) HS sports doesnt get half the coverage of the Majors, so hence it doesnt get half the images taken of it or publicity. Though that is changing as more of these HS's are making their own websites that display many more of the images taken at these events besides the printed ones, along with excellent coverage from area newspapers.
Here in Utah the high school football and basketball playoffs are a big deal and covered by most news agencies here. The images captured by the photographers covering these events, are top notch and on scale with those of the Majors!
So, I just wanted to apologize in advance for any of my future posting of high school sports images...in case it offends anyone! |
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Aaron Rhoads, Photographer
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McComb | MS | USA | Posted: 6:05 PM on 11.12.07 |
| ->> More motor vehicle stuff. I'm going right out and start taking pictures of cars going up an down the highway. |
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Jason Orth, Photographer
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Lincoln | NE | USA | Posted: 6:23 PM on 11.12.07 |
->> "freelance"
three e's, not all in a row...
/need to check my own captions |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 6:31 PM on 11.12.07 |
| ->> GJ points out one of the problems which seems to be more frequent than several years ago. sure there might be some grumbling about other shooters work, I mean, hey some dude said all my photos were out of focus on my member page a few weeks ago. I didn't respond. (I thought maybe he had beer goggles on when looking at them) ..but the point is...why does someone get a friggin "inappropriate" for making a very truthful statement? especially someone like gerry who brings a lot to the table. cripes, curt or not, that's just wrong and another reason why some of the members who could bring some real insight to this wonderful profession won't post anymore. |
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Fj Hughes, Photographer, Assistant
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Baltimore | MD | USA | Posted: 6:45 PM on 11.12.07 |
| ->> To set the record straight, I didn't mark G.J.'s post as inappropriate. I just thought it was a bit rough. I think his second posy was a much better statement of his point of view. |
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Edmund Fountain, Photographer
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Tampa | FL | United States | Posted: 6:53 PM on 11.12.07 |
->> The point of this site as I have always understood it is to advance sports photography and photojournalism in general.
I think that there is definitely a benchmark for the work that is chosen to be featured on this site. I think that benchmark is set high, and I think it should remain that way. If the mark is low, then the site fails in it's mission of advancing our profession.
I don't think that a photographer's nationality or *WHAT* they cover has anything to do with whether or not they are featured. It has everything to do with *HOW* they cover something.
Whenever I check out the work that gets featured I don't ever look at the photographer's nationality. That is a distant, distant thing in my mind compared to the quality of their pictures.
I know for a fact that I would rather look at interesting photographs than boring ones. If there are great pictures to be seen of high school sports, or baseball in an empty neighborhood sandlot, then I would much rather see those than boring images of pro soccer, rugby, baseball, hockey, whatever.
If being featured on the front of this site is all you seek to gain by your membership, you might want to rethink why you are a part of this community. |
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Derrick den Hollander, Photographer
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Melbourne | VIC | AUSTRALIA | Posted: 7:56 PM on 11.12.07 |
->> My thread's intention was I thought straight-forward - a query about the entry standard for being a member - basic captioning, apparently no longer being the base standard. The other point I wished to make is that international sport does'nt seem to get a run.
I think the thread wandered a little from there - people defending, making personal jibes, agreeing - the fact people shoot amateur sport - I know we all have done this, do this, will do this at community, high school and college level. My point was that if you do this and don't caption or title your images when submitting - you might choose to. It might come in handy when you want an editor to consider your work.
Perhaps my lack of expertise in wording is apparent - my two points intended to be captioning (or lack thereof) and the lack of internationally flavoured features. Objectively, there are increasing submissions with no captions - there is a distinct lack of international features. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but please don't berate me by mentioning topics and subjects I have'nt mentioned. I shoot high school sport - we all do, have done or will do. Does that mean we don't have to caption them when we submit them here?
Glass houses, lack of class, college, beginners, pros - not really sure where they all fit into the intention of the thread. Im not complaining, I'm asking a couple of questions. Some choose to answer, some choose not to.
Why did I join? To contribute, educate, be educated. |
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Allan Campbell, Photographer, Assistant
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Salem | OR | USA | Posted: 8:15 PM on 11.12.07 |
->> Good captions are probably one of the most important things you can do here on Sports Shooter. Most of us at some time gets sloppy or doesn't really caption properly. Although I've learned that it is much easier to caption correctly the first time, rather than waste more time going back and doing it later. If you have great photos and bad or non existent captions you will not get the attention the photo probably deserves.
I am not sure what you mean by International Sport being overlooked... In the past I have seen features on World Cup Football (soccer), Rugby, The Olympics, Ping Pong and some game you kick the ball over the net like Badminton. What sports do you feel are being overlooked?
I for one love to see weird and interesting sports that we may not get to see on a weekly basis. Check out Sol Neelman's blog http://thewwwofsports.blogspot.com/
He is finding all sorts of weird stuff in the sports world. |
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Derrick den Hollander, Photographer
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Melbourne | VIC | AUSTRALIA | Posted: 9:04 PM on 11.12.07 |
->> Footnote - of the 40 odd new submitters, around 50% had no captions or title. That was one point I was attempting to clarify.
Rather than overlooked sports, of which potentially there could be hundreds, there seems to be a predominance of American Football, Basketball, baseball over the year. Perhaps it is a reflection of the membership. I'm not really sure.
I have'nt seen much cricket, soccer, motor racing - anecdotally speaking anyway. Perhaps as some here suggest there are no interesting images submitted. Maybe I need to be a member alot longer to develop an more accurate perception. |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 9:10 PM on 11.12.07 |
->> "Perhaps it is a reflection of the membership"
there ya go. you answered your own question. |
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Mark Peters, Photographer
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Highland | IL | USA | Posted: 9:16 PM on 11.12.07 |
->> Derrick,
On the feature subject, part of this is a sheer numbers game. The number of us vs. international members alone would suggest a preponderance of U.S. originated features. Since the features are much more than simple a new/different sport, but moreso about a unique story, style, viewpoint, the fact that there are X number of features on high school football, doesn't mean much - there are x number of different/unique presentations of subject matter. That is not to say that the international members do not have unique styles, viewpoints, stories, etc., as they obviously do.
On the captioning issue, I agree. When I prepared my submission, my sponsor was adamant about proper captioning.
While I admit to the occassional update with minimal captionin - I believe they are quite important for original applications. |
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Jean Finley, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Iowa City | IA | USA | Posted: 11:09 PM on 11.12.07 |
->> Derrick - Captions aren't "required" of any image posted here, but during the application process it's probably expected that you demonstrate the ability to do so. It is important to the PJs in the group. Keep in mind, not all here are PJs.
As for what people shoot - Much of what you see posted here is work product. Photographer is hired to photograph Event X (whether as a newspaper staffer or freelancer). It's hardly the fault of the photographer that he's photographing high school football rather than cricket.
Regarding what gets chosen for feature - I've noticed, more often than not, a member page is chosen because there are 10 great images that are all part of a single story, project or theme. Beyond that, they are interesting, convey something more than your typical "my ten best photos from last month". Go back to the last 10 featured pages and see what they have in common.
Whether YOU get chosen - Is it really that important? You joined to contribute. How often do you update your page with a great group of cohesive images? What were the last five great updates you saw and what did you say to the photographer who made them? Who are your favorite shooters here? What have they been working on? Who do you exchange emails with? Who are you helping? Who is helping you? These are the important questions to answer if you're really interested in contribution and education. |
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Jason Franson, Photographer
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Edmonton | AB | Canada | Posted: 11:46 PM on 11.12.07 |
->> I personally would like to see more photojournalism featured on the front page, even the though the site is called sportsshooter. One thing I have noticed is a ton of just sports shots and the kind you see sold at kids sporting events, the iso type photos in peoples updates and find it disappointing to look at.
I like to see how someone works an event from different angles, behind the scenes if they have access move around looking for some art in an event not just the action and iso's.
As far as getting featured on the front page, I think it's all subjective what one person likes another might not. I have been featured 4 or 5 times now and I'm sure some wondered why, and others liked it.
I just finished covering the Canadian Finals Rodeo for a couple of days and updated my site two days ago, some might like it and others may not. Thats just the way it is.
Heres my Rodeo pics if you want to have a look. I don't expect everyone to like them and they weren't featured this time. Oh well!
http://www.sportsshooter.com/members.html?id=3643 |
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Michael Brown, Photographer
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Roxburgh Park | Victoria | Australia | Posted: 12:07 AM on 11.13.07 |
->> Woah!!
A guy asks a question about captioning and featuring some more international events and he gets flamed.
Firstly "glass houses" what the hell is that?? And to top it off it's marked 8 times as informative, you have to be kidding me!! I've seen plenty of Derrick's stuff up here, and it is always captioned to International Standards, whether an international sporting event or a local event, he did not mention the standard of photography at all, just the captioning. When I joined it was stressed to me that I need to have all of my images captioned professionally for joining and I should continue to do so.
And secondly, yes being a large US base of shooters on here there is going to be a huge slant to US based sports, that is understandable. I think from my perspective when you see a huge issue breaking over here in Australia, and around the International Cricketing Community (nearly 2 billion I think someone pointed out) which should cause an outcry from all Media & Sports Photographers around the world barely causing a ripple on the most well known and respected Sports & PJ website, it really does make you think, "where are the priorities"
It's obviously big enough an issue for Reuters, AP, AFP & Getty to boycott the test matches, so why isn't it a big issue here?
Personally I would like to see some other sports and news stuff featured as well, and I'm not asking that it's mine, or even anything from Australia. But it would be nice to see something else apart from American Football & Baseball (P.S. I loved the Halloween series). |
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Christian del Rosario, Photographer
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San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 12:10 AM on 11.13.07 |
->> At first when I joined I thought it was strange there were photos of of stuff not related to sports...like wedding photography, fine art, portraits, etc...
But I quickly realized that even though this site is coined "Sports" shooter, you can learn so much by all disciplines of photography, as well as from different people with different specialties.
With that type of expectation, it opens your eyes to new possibilities you may never realize by staying with a group of people who only do one type of photography.
I absolutely agree we all have to start somewhere. And it's great there are a lot of new members who are joining to learn. What I think the community looks for is a desire to learn and share. But especially to see someone take advice and criticism and show improvements from it.
As a side note, there are some FANTASTIC shooters here that do not have a single sports picture. If you love photography, then this should be all good! |
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G.J. McCarthy, Photographer
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Dallas | TX | USA | Posted: 12:43 AM on 11.13.07 |
->> To be fair and forthright, my glass houses comment was aimed more at a couple of the "hell ya's" the original post drew; but still, I took issue with the thread as a whole. And I am sorry to any genuinely offended ... and aren't just marking the "i" to say my thinking is sh*t.
The sad part is I've been there before. I spent countless minutes finessing cutlines, overly toning photos, reworking edits -- everything I could to hopefully, *hopefully* get some kind of recognition on this oft-viewed site.
Did it work (coming from someone who has been featured in one way or another a few times)? Don't know. I will say this: more often than not, it was the updates more genuine in their intent (the "hey all, here's something I made pictures of -- had a good time with -- and hope you enjoy") that seemed to blip on the radar. But that's just been my experience. It would be irresponsible of me to assume otherwise.
Suffice to say, I'll finish with this: just try to grow and take good pictures of whatever suits your fancy, and in whatever city, state, country or continent you call home. Do it to be a better you and better artist -- journalist/storyteller/photographer/craftsman, etc. -- and not to get your work (or kind of work) featured on this or any other site. In the big picture, that's not the best allocation of effort.
Best to you all.
- gerry - |
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John Setzler, Photographer
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Hickory | NC | USA | Posted: 12:48 AM on 11.13.07 |
->> "It might be a persoanl opinion (as photography can be subjective) but I think the best sports action picture, can be made or broken by a background - and a few people wandering around or empty seats can kill an image. I've some great sports pictures, with peak action, but have'nt done anything with them due to poor backgrounds."
This is one of the issues that has kept me from ever applying to SportsShooter until now. I'm a new member, and backgrounds are a huge problem for me. There are two distinct issues that keep me from having optimal backgrounds in a lot of my sports photography.
1 - Equipment
I haven't ponied up $3800 for a 300mm f/2.8 lens. I'm still shooting with a 70-200 f/2.8 for a lot of my sports photography.
2 - The Venue
I'm just a photo stringer for my local newspaper, and I'm stuck in gymnasiums that have little more light than a movie theater and on football and soccer fields that are just as bad.
It's not uncommon for me to find myself with a handful of excellent action photos with empty seats behind them, a marching band bus, automobiles, or any other type of rather ugly distraction. My local minor league baseball park's outfield wall is plastered with 4'x8' advertisements that are rather annoying to a photographer, but I have to make a simple choice. I work with what I have, or I don't work. I'm rather proud of some of the images I have in my portfolio, even though they aren't what some would consider excellent because of the backgrounds. I agree that it's important to pay attention to backgrounds, but the background is not the subject of the photo. If the subject is strong enough, the background won't matter as much.
The hard truth of the matter is that I won't be able to consistently produce the images that a lot of people here are capable of until I'm spending more money on gear and maybe working for an agency who will send me to professional venues to work. I hope to learn a little here though, regardless of my backgrounds ;) |
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Derrick den Hollander, Photographer
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Melbourne | VIC | AUSTRALIA | Posted: 12:56 AM on 11.13.07 |
->> >>Jean - New members joining information, quote - "They expect to see images that are well exposed, toned properly, composed well, are in focus, and contain error-free complete caption information." I assumed this standard remains once a member. I thought it a fair and reasonable assumption that members might be expected to continue this standard.
I have'nt put down any photographer and what they shoot. I have commented that some great images of different sports don't appear to get a run. I also shoot junior sport, so why would I put down anyone else who does? Clearly, I did not.
My glance at features - ads and other stuff aside - the common thread is American Football. Perhaps I am mistaken, or looking at the wrong part of Features.
I have'nt asked to be chosen as a feature - so I don't know where that conclusion was drawn. I am able to answer in the affirmative to your further questions - so I'll assume my interest is in contribution and education - not drawing the long bow or singling out any particular person. |
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Grover Sanschagrin, Photo Editor, Photographer
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San Francisco | CA | USA | Posted: 1:25 AM on 11.13.07 |
->> Wow. You guys have got to be kidding me.
Let me clue you in on how we choose what appears on the front page every day - and there's no agenda involved. Basically, the best pictures win.
Each night we look at every member page that has been updated and make a decision - should we go with a story we may have waiting to be released, or do we feature a member's update?
The bottom line is: Is this an example of good photography? If yes, then it will be promoted by us, proudly.
What's funny here in this thread is how so many people seem to think we have so much to choose from - so much perfect work - and we're ignoring most of it because we simply favor one type of thing over another.
To be completely honest, we consider ourselves lucky if we have two choices. Usually, there's only one update that we feel is worth us bragging about. (And we love to brag about our members. Seriously.)
So, every day is a new day. Every day is a day when someone can come out of nowhere and blow us away and make the front page. No agendas. No favoritism. Just good work.
We don't care if it is youth sports. We don't care if it's the Super Bowl. We don't care if it is called "soccer" or "football". We don't care if it is pro, college, amateur or some bizarre sport we've never even heard of. We don't even care if it is sports at all.
Is it good? That's all we care about.
We love photography. We love the community that this site represents, and it represents a huge array of different types of photography.
If you don't feel like your particular flavor of photography is being promoted enough, then go out there and make some images that make us take notice and promote you.
We're wide open, and love good images. Plain and simple. |
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Derrick den Hollander, Photographer
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Melbourne | VIC | AUSTRALIA | Posted: 3:18 AM on 11.13.07 |
->> Thanks for the clarification Grover, particularly well worded.
I can now appreciate that if 90% submit the same subject, there's a fair chance that's the subject that will run. I was'nt sure if front page works were selected over a day, a week or a month - or by subject matter, IQ etc. I certainly was sure that the best images are run - perhaps having so little exposure to American Football, after awhile images can tend to look very similar.
Thanks again, I think I got fairly jumped on for asking the question - and I greatly appreciate your clarification. |
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Christopher Pasatieri, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Lodi | NJ | USA | Posted: 7:03 AM on 11.13.07 |
->> "The lack of image titles and captioning really bugs me - perhaps people are a little lazy, a little too busy, to set a standard for Sports and PJ photographers. "
I don't caption my work unless I am shooting that event for a wire service. I can always go back and look up a guys jersey number on a roster and BS my way through the caption if I really need to use one later on.
I find when I post my portfolio updates here on SS that a title is in order, but all that copying and pasting to add the caption is just a royal pain the you know where.
Thanks,
CP |
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David Johnson, Photographer
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Social Circle (Atlanta) | GA | USA | Posted: 7:56 AM on 11.13.07 |
->> Hi Derrick,
I think you might have missed part of the point Grover was making. Grover was saying the front page selection is based on the QUALITY of the photography and that is all.
You could make the argument that with so many people making updates having shot particular sports, it makes it more likely that at least one of those people will have some good work, but that is a faulty argument. There is no guarantee that anyone would have work of consistent high enough quality (10 high quality images) to go on the front page.
Grover was very specific - "Is it good? That's all we care about."
As an example, let's say that yesterday 20% of updates were NFL football, 20% basketball, 20% soccer (futbol), 5% rugby, 34% various high school sports and there was 1 submission of a frog jumping contest in Spain. If the frog jumping contest provided the best example of quality photography with 10 superb images, the frog jumping contest would be on the front page - even though it was the ONLY submission that represented the subject.
Quality over quantity.
I agree there were a lot of answers to your post that would make me feel "jumped on" too. Please do not take it personally. I am guessing the reactions were caused by your question being posted publicly. Your question could easily be construed as critical of the website and how membership is handled. PLEASE NOTE I said your question 'could be construed' not 'was critical'. I do not think you meant it in a critical manner, more likely just curious.
When you have questions about the operation of an organization (SportsShooter or any other organization) consider asking the questions directly and privately (http://www.sportsshooter.com/contactus.html).
If you don't receive a satisfactory answer, then contact other people directly that may have knowledge and get their opinions. (Fellow photographers, people that you see posting on the website and have the respect of others) If you still need more help after that, then maybe some public questions are warranted.
After all, if you had a client with questions about your integrity wouldn't you rather they contact you directly than posting the question on your website for all your visitors and potential clients to see?
David |
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Alan Stewart, Photographer
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Corydon | IN | USA | Posted: 8:19 AM on 11.13.07 |
->> Grover, your post could be the preamble to the SS constitution.
It's a darn shame I could click "Informative" just once. |
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Richard Denham, Photographer
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Toronto/Buffalo/Niagara | On | Canada | Posted: 9:38 AM on 11.13.07 |
->> Yeah wanna know what I think, do ya, c'mon I know you do.
IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE WAY SS.COM IS RUN, THAN LEAVE, GO HOME, GET OFF THE FORUM.
God! FREAKIN grow up and stop whining. This is a place to learn, share and grow.
If you don't like the featured galeries, than get off your ass and go make something that's worth featuring instead of wasting forum space complaining that "my images are never shown and I shoot a sport that millions watch"
BIG FREAKING DEAL! |
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Richard Denham, Photographer
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Toronto/Buffalo/Niagara | On | Canada | Posted: 11:00 AM on 11.13.07 |
| ->> I'm sorry, someone thinks this was inappropriate, please feel free to tell me why rather than just mark my post as such. Don't email it, don't call me, don't pm me, just feel free to post on here why you think that, I would love to know. If you don't have the bollocks to do so than I am sure you are most likely someone who would rather whine and complain than stand up for yourself. If you do than lets hear why. That's almost just as bad as the original post in this thread, calling something inappropriate and not letting everyone know why |
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Chris Stanfield, Photo Editor
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Atlanta | GA | USA | Posted: 11:16 AM on 11.13.07 |
->> Richard -
Did you miss your smoke break this morning? |
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David Manning, Photographer
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Athens | GA | | Posted: 11:17 AM on 11.13.07 |
->> Well said Grover.... remind me to buy you a glass of your favorite libation next time i see you.
As for the updates, I only try to put photos out there that i want the world to see, like when you only turn in photos that you're willing to see go six columns across the front.
I just worry about taking good photos and doing the best i can do. If Grover and Bert think its worthy, then cool. If they don't, well then I just gotta work harder at it. This is about a community thats trying to improve each other through sharing and open information, and the Sportsshooter academy videos are a great place to start.
As for those people complaining about being stuck in a crappy lit gym, well there are explanations found on this website how to make your crappy lit gym look like a lit NBA arena with 2 or 3 inexpensive camera flashes. Sure, its a little bit of work but in order to come close to the front page on SS, you have to put the work in.
Just my 11 cents. |
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Richard Denham, Photographer
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Toronto/Buffalo/Niagara | On | Canada | Posted: 11:24 AM on 11.13.07 |
->> Chris
nope! don't smoke.
Just sick and tired of people always whining, complaining and trying to pass the buck. If people would just start looking into the mirror to see what the problem is, rather than out their front door, maybe one day they may find the problem and be able to fix it.
By the way I did miss my morning coffee! |
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Allan Campbell, Photographer, Assistant
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Salem | OR | USA | Posted: 12:10 PM on 11.13.07 |
->> Richard,
I marked you Inappropriate.... personal attacks have no place on a message board like this.
"If you don't have the bollocks to do so than I am sure you are most likely someone who would rather whine and complain than stand up for yourself. "
I am fine with the size of my b.lls thanks.
Allan Campbell |
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Dave Amorde, Photographer
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Lake Forest | CA | USA | Posted: 12:30 PM on 11.13.07 |
->> I hope Gerry's page disappearance is an unfortunate coincidence caused by a technical glitch.
As for "Inappropriates": I couldn't give a rat's @ss how many of them I receive on this message board from my fellow photographers - I can easily buy a fellow shooter a beer and move on - it's the mental inappropriates that potential employers make when perusing this board that I and other should be concerned about. |
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Richard Denham, Photographer
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Toronto/Buffalo/Niagara | On | Canada | Posted: 12:31 PM on 11.13.07 |
| ->> Allen, are you for real, you think that was a personal attack. All I did was reply to a post. I did not attack anyone in any means, I may have been harsh and I will admit, but I mean c'mon. I am sick of tired of people complaining and looking to pass blame. As I later stated, get off your ass and something about it rather than sit around and do nothing. As for the "marking of inappropriate" personally I would never mark someone inappropriate without a reason why, but that's just me. |
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Allan Campbell, Photographer, Assistant
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Salem | OR | USA | Posted: 1:56 PM on 11.13.07 |
| ->> I read it as "GET OFF THE FORUM" that sounded personal to me. It also was rude in my opinion. This whole thread should have died after Grover posted. |
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Bryan Hulse, Photographer
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Highlands Ranch | Co | USA | Posted: 2:37 PM on 11.13.07 |
->> Funny that it seems photographers often have trouble getting along.
Is it possible that people join SS.com for different reasons?
Is it possible that different photographers appreciate different styles?
One member said they want to see more photojournalism featured on SS. However, I am just the opposite and didn’t join SS.com to see features. The SS that I enjoy is about sports, portraiture and lighting. But who cares what I think? I am not complaining! And it is up to me to sift through the content to find what I am looking for.
A public forum is a place for members from all over to world to showcase and share their work. And, that work and shared information may or may not suite other photographers. It seems pretty simple to me.
I hate to see this turn into DPArgue, er, I mean DPReview. |
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Richard Denham, Photographer
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Toronto/Buffalo/Niagara | On | Canada | Posted: 2:44 PM on 11.13.07 |
->> Ah Allen, you are correct, but you need to read the rest of the sentence.
"IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE WAY SS.COM IS RUN, THAN LEAVE, GO HOME, GET OFF THE FORUM."
I never told him to leave, I was simply saying hat if he did not like the way things are run here, than instead of whining about, do something about it. "GET OFF THE FORUM" was not an order, simply an option
Me personally, I would not be part of something like ss.com if I did not like the way things are/were run |
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Alan Stewart, Photographer
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Corydon | IN | USA | Posted: 2:53 PM on 11.13.07 |
->> "I hope Gerry's page disappearance is an unfortunate coincidence caused by a technical glitch." -- Dave Amorde
Ditto. |
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