SportsShooter.com - OT- Drinking while on Assignment

	Philadelphia \| PA \| United States \| Posted: 1:35 PM on 10.31.07
	->> Wendi, just curious, but what exactly do you see as the problem by someone having a beer while waiting to cover a concert? As far as I can tell, as long as they pay for it I don't see any ethical problems.

David Brooks, Photographer

	San Diego \| CA \| USA \| Posted: 1:38 PM on 10.31.07
	->> As a staffer it's a fire-able offense while on assignment. Also no drinking at all when driving a company car. It's an easy decision, I just don't drink.

Scott MacDonald, Photographer

	Salinas \| CA \| USA \| Posted: 1:46 PM on 10.31.07
	->> I agree. You should definitely do your drinking before the assignment.

Colin Lenton, Photographer, Assistant

	Philadelphia \| PA \| United States \| Posted: 1:47 PM on 10.31.07
	->> Also, just to clarify - as long as its not specific policy at their place of employment, or if they're freelance , what is it that would bother you about this practice?

Wendi Kaminski, Photographer, Assistant

La Mirada | CA | USA | Posted: 1:57 PM on 10.31.07

->> I guess what bugs me is that someone is paying you (whether on assignment or on spec) to do a job to the best of your ability and you're there to represent the magazine, newspaper, wire service etc. If concert goers see a group of photogs sitting around waiting having drinks in the holding area, doesn't that just add to the perception that the public has about photographers? I guess to me it's the image and impression that it portrays, and those means a lot to me.

As for an interview with a journalist and subject, I feel that its the same way. If the subject is choosing to have a drink, that is one thing, but the journalist is there to do a job whether it's "after" hours or during the reg business hours.

I understand that there is a time and place to socialize with drinks. I am all for that. But I guess I have a different opinion when it comes to work and drinking and combining the two.

Richard Uhlhorn, Photographer

	Chelan Falls \| WA \| USA \| Posted: 2:03 PM on 10.31.07
	->> I never drink while on an actual assignment, however, I certainly have no problem with drinking a beer with my lunch. If I'm actually on a break from shooting at an event, I'll certainly take the time to have a Soda Water with a splash of Roses. The beer or drink can wait until I'm finished working. Cheers Rich

Jonathan Castner, Photographer

	Longmont \| CO \| USA \| Posted: 2:04 PM on 10.31.07
	->> I never eat or drink anything on assignment - that's me. I think that drinking alcohol on assignment as a journalist is very different than cutting a business deal over martinis. We should never do anything that calls to question our professionalism or objectivity.

Alan Rogers, Photographer

	Hickory \| NC \| USA \| Posted: 2:09 PM on 10.31.07
	->> I don't know the details of the situations you're talking about, but I just wanted to toss this out there. At any large concert, etc. there are always tons of photographers. Thats because the venue, corporate sponsors, etc. typically get photo passes as perks. Not every photographer there is necessarily on assignment.

Landon Finch, Photographer

	Colorado Springs \| CO \| USA \| Posted: 2:12 PM on 10.31.07
	->> I was at the high school state cross country meet this past Saturday morning (yes, 10 am) and a writer showed up smelling of alcohol. 'Professional' and 'alcohol on the breath' don't seem to go together (in most cases).

Jeff Mills, Photographer, Photo Editor

Columbus | OH | USA | Posted: 3:14 PM on 10.31.07

->> Given that many of the photographers you see at shows are also the writers, editors and publishers of their publications or websites, I really don't think its much of an issue with many of them having to okay it with "the boss".

If your there as a staffer for a publication thats more professional and wouldn't expect its employees to drink while on work then dont. Simple as that. If your driving a company car then don't. If you simply don't feel its the right thing to do, then done.

Some publications expect their staffers to show up to interviews with business casual or nicer clothing. Others could care less with jeans and a thsirt and thats what you see some photographers wearing while others may wear a dress shirt just because they think its the right thing to do.

You can't hold everyone to the same standards nor should you. A staffer for the NY Times and a staffer for Death Metal Monthly are going to have very different employee cultures and standards. Sometimes they just may happen to be at the same show.

Brian Mount, Student/Intern

Simi Valley | CA | USA | Posted: 3:26 PM on 10.31.07

->> I think that drinking on the job whether you are a photojournalist, movie theater manager, or stock market trader, is completely unprofessional. Not only does his hinder your judgment during certain situations, it might give the perception that other photographers drink on the job, when in fact that they don't. You have to remember that you not only represent the organization that you work for, but photojournalism in general.

When I used to shoot architecture at night, a fellow photog would get completely sloshed and shoot with me. Grant it, most photogs who do drink at concerts or have a beer during a sit down interview don't get belligerent, it just looks bad.

As a college student, I try really hard to keep my personal life separate from my photography. I don't want people to look at me and say 'Hey theres that photog that was drinking at the concert last night'. As harmless as having a beer at a concert or interview may seem, it could tarnish your reputation.

Jeff Mills, Photographer, Photo Editor

Columbus | OH | USA | Posted: 4:25 PM on 10.31.07

->> I think this is not a black or white issue. Sometimes I think its not only permissiable but encouraged to drink while on the job as a journalist.

If your doing an interview with, lets say Kid Rock, since he's on the cover of a Rolling Stone I've got next to me, and he wants to meet at a local pub he frequents to have a few cold ones and talk about life, music, Pam, and whatever else, I'd have to say if you don't join him for a few your not doing your job as a journalist.

Good part of good journalism involves getting the subject to "lower the walls" so to speak. What would give the more insightful and personal interview with Kid Rock, A) saying thanks but no thanks, "I'm on the job" when he orders a round of drinks and allowing him to feel uncomfortable as being the only one drinking, or B) Joining him in a beer and making him feel relaxed, as its just two guys kicking back and talking ? Whats going to make the better interview ?

This reminds me of Z-Man. Did he really have to strip down to his boxers in the locker room in Oakland all the time ? No, but by doing so he made himself blend in more, "just one of the guys" if you will. It allowed him to get better and more candid photographs.

I'd wager good money as well that when he was covering the rock and roll stuff he no doubt had a few cold ones with the artist to say the least =)

Point is that its not black or white. Your obviously not going to have a cocktail doing an interview or photoshoot with a political candidate.

Doing an "On tour with ...." feature for Kerrang! magazine though might involve some drinking. You don't have it but I don't think its going to hurt.

I remember doing an assignment on Pantera back in the day. After the show DimeBag Darrell (RIP) comes back off the bus with a big bottle of Seagrams 7 and makes some Black Tooth Grin's for everyone to kick off a bit of an afterparty. I had a couple and developed a goood relationship of trust and comfort with the subjects. Fun time too I should add.

It paid off though with some great photos and a side of the band you don't always see. If I remained in ridgid "business ethics" mode I wouldn't of gotten half the shots I did because I'd just be some suit standing in the corner.

Was the editor upset I had a few drinks ? Nope, they were thrilled with the shots.

Did I give a bad name to photographers ? Nope, I was actually invited out to LA for another show with the band since they felt I was a cool guy. Showed the band that journalist/photograhpers can be decent people and that having to do a photo shoot isn't always a drag.

Winding up this long winded post, the line of right and wrong is really drawn by ourselves. We all have things we feel we should and shouldn't do.

I've got a buddy who shoots out in New Mexico. To do an assignment on one of the native american tribes he had to sacrafice a goat! It was apparently required to get to be a part of some sort of ceremony.

I couldn't do that. I just wouldn't kill a living thing to do an assignment. Doesn't mean its right or wrong, its just not what I'd feel comfortable doing. And thats all it comes down it, do and act, based on what YOU think is right, ethical and moral and don't worry about the other guy.

Matthew Williams, Student/Intern, Photographer

	Ventura \| CA \| USA \| Posted: 4:29 PM on 10.31.07
	->> You beat me to the punch Jeff. I couldn't agree more.

Mike McLaughlin, Photographer

	Neptune City \| NJ \| USA \| Posted: 4:48 PM on 10.31.07
	->> I didn't used to drink on the job, but now that autofocus is so good and tilted horizons are in, what the hell! ;P

Tom Davenport, Photographer

Hayden | ID | USA | Posted: 5:05 PM on 10.31.07

->> Wendy,
WOW, great topic! Amazing answers and now I have to chime in. Many of us apparently feel its ok to be not really impaired, partially impaired, on the job by throwing a few back. Would you toke on a joint with a rock star? And as one person wrote its all about you, not what the other guy thinks.
Photography is miles away from construction, but a few years back I was a carpentry supervisor working behind a mason, who as part of his culture, had a beer with lunch every day. No big deal. Except that about half his work was OK, the other half cost us money to work behind because it was not plumb, and not professional in most ways.
My suggestion would be think about yourself and the people that have to work with your product. I'd hate to be an editor who had to worry about sober photogs.
Don't drink on the job.
td

Matthew Williams, Student/Intern, Photographer

Ventura | CA | USA | Posted: 5:51 PM on 10.31.07

->> So are you saying that because he had one beer with lunch his carpentry was not up to par or was it just not up to par period? I can think of several situations i've been in that would have gone badly if I had refused a drink with some questionable subjects. I'm not saying we should all shoot up while photographing the heroin den next door, but having a beer in certain situations either to gain acceptance into a subject's life or to make them feel more comfortable is a different story in my opinion. As I said before, this totally depends on the publication you are working for or if you are working on spec. Granted, when I am working for a newspaper I definitely would think twice about having a beer on the clock. The great thing about this post is that it totally depends on each person's situation and comfort levels, and probably the subject matter that they photograph.

Jeff Mills, Photographer, Photo Editor

Columbus | OH | USA | Posted: 5:54 PM on 10.31.07

->> I've apparently got way more opinions on this topic than I realized so heres yet another thought before I've got to head out to a bball game (sober mind you lol)

I'm not quite sure what it says about us that we can put so much thought into things as silly as if its ethical, or if it simply bothers us that another photographer may have a beer at a concert.

I was thinking about things that do really bother me and drinking wasn't on the list.

What does bother me is photographers blocking anothers shot by stepping out onto the field, or otherwise engaging in behavior that makes it hard for another person to do their job.

What does bother me is not getting credentials due to "lack of space" and yet Joe Snapshot with his P&S is still on the sidelines with his lenscap on watching the game and cheering like a fool.

What does bother me is having to worry if I can leave my laptop or camera bag in the media room without someone stealing it.

What does bother me is if I'll be asked to hand over all rights to my images for poor compensation or if I'll ever get paid in a timely manner by the client.

What does bother me is guys finding out my rate and charging 50% less to take my business.

What does bother me is having to wonder if I can still do this job and support a family in 5 years time

What does bother me is that my Canon 1D mkIII didn't focus right.

What does bother me is having to shoot noon games in late fall with a strong backlight making it near impossible to get a good exposure of the players faces.

I could go on and on quite easily but I'll spare you all the other 991 things on my list. When having to worry about if another photographer having a beer is the biggest thing that upsets me though, well I'll be one happy photographer because my 1000 other issues must of all been solved.

Curtis Clegg, Photographer

Belvidere | IL | USA | Posted: 8:59 PM on 10.31.07

->> ->> I didn't used to drink on the job, but now that autofocus is so good and tilted horizons are in, what the hell! ;P

This reminds me of the quote from Eamon Hickey's article about the old Kodak NC2000. In the article, one photographer proclaimed "now I can go shoot drunk again!" after the introduction of the "exposure throttle" modification to the Photoshop plug-in component of Photo Mechanic.

The article is here:
http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-6463-7191
It's a really good article about the history of DSLRs... well-worth a read if you haven't done so already.

James Madelin, Photographer

AKL | Auckland | New Zealand | Posted: 9:29 PM on 10.31.07

->> there's a BIG difference between drinking and getting drunk. i would never fire anyone who returned to the office having had a beer or glass of wine with their lunch, but if they had had four beers or a bottle of wine with their friends, then it could be very different.

i'm totally sober after the small glass of champagne i sometimes allow myself at social and event photography jobs, it in no way impairs my ability to do my job nor does it in any way look unprofessional. the only reason i only rarely allow myself a drink is that i struggle to hold my camera and caption notebook AND a flute.

having a beer waiting for a concert to start ? what's the problem ? following it up with a chaser and downing another two before the band comes on ? totally different.

claiming that all drinking is unacceptable seems to me to be a peculiar over-reaction.

Jeff Stanton, Photographer

	Tucson \| Az \| USA \| Posted: 9:38 PM on 10.31.07
	->> If Diet Mountain Dew is alcoholic, I'm in big trouble. Seriously, Wendi, I see your concern here. But really, I would worry about myself and myself only. It's not really your job to police other shooters' morality or behavior.

Adam Cairns, Photographer

	Columbus \| OH \| USA \| Posted: 10:16 PM on 10.31.07
	->> In a related news story, a photographer lost a couple's wedding pictures (and his own camera gear!) after getting drunk at the reception: http://newpaper.asia1.com.sg/news/story/0,4136,146423,00.html

Bob Croslin, Photographer

St. Petersburg | FL | USA | Posted: 10:36 PM on 10.31.07

->> Damn, some of you need to lighten up.

When I worked at MSNBC there would occasionally be a launch party or some other event and we'd leave our desk and go grab a beer. Not get hammered - just go drink a beer. I remember thinking I had finally arrived! It was so foreign to me that you could drink a beer while on the clock because of all of the tight asses (newspapers) I had worked for prior to working at MSFT. No ethics were compromised - no facts missed - just a little celebration and then back to work.

I then went back to working at a newspaper and sure enough we couldn't even toast the success of new product or rough night working a Superbowl where the home team won with a simple small glass of champagne! No one wanted to get drunk - just a small celebration of a job well done.

And to think, back in the day it was normal for photographers to have a beer while working in the darkroom at the paper. Thank goodness those days are over!

Shane Canfield, Photographer

	Alexandria \| VA \| USA \| Posted: 1:33 AM on 11.01.07
	->> Well it all depends on the situation. But have to say if I'm hiring someone, by the job or on salary, and they show up smelling like drink during work, it does not make a good impression...but it is a lasting impression. Smarter to just drink off the job...it's not the 1970s any more.

Shelly Castellano, Photographer

	Huntington Beach \| CA \| USA \| Posted: 11:04 AM on 11.01.07
	->> Exception: Drinking out of the Stanley Cup!

Dennis Wierzbicki, Photographer

Plainfield | IL | USA | Posted: 4:50 PM on 11.01.07

->> Reminds me of a story: when I was coming out of the Navy in 1984, I interviewed with large electrical company in Milwaukee for an Engineering job. About 11 or so, the guy I was interviewing with asked me if I was thirsty and I said "yep" so we took the elevator up to the cafeteria. Once there, I saw beer taps along with the soda, and he asked me if I wanted a beer. At first I thought he was kidding, but while we stood there, a couple other guys ambled up and helped themselves. Now, I like beer as much as the next guy, but I declined the offer to imbibe, yet all these years later I still remember this portion of the interview more than any other.

BTW, yes I did get an offer, but no I didn't take it (for other reasons unrelated to the On Tap Cafe).

Sure makes you think "My, how times have changed", though.

With regards to eating on the job, in response to the statement "I never eat or drink anything on assignment - that's me. " - how can this be? Many of my jobs last for hours, and it would be foolhardy to not eat anything. I can see not partaking in alcoholic beverages, but not EATING or DRINKING (anything) while on assignment? Sounds contrary to good health practices...

D. Ross Cameron, Photographer

	Oakland \| CA \| USA \| Posted: 3:17 AM on 11.02.07
	->> Wait! -- it was okay to drink on the job in the 1970s? Well then, obviously, I was born 10 years too late! DAMN YOU, MOM & DAD! Why couldn't I have been the firstborn? Soddenly, DRC

Jonathan Kirby, Photographer

Whistler | BC | Canada | Posted: 11:43 PM on 11.02.07

->> I for one fully endorse doing what it takes to perform your best. I chose photography as a career (while it's one in the making) for the lack of rules, guidelines and structure(no TPS reports and 9-5 hours) and still being able to make it a career. I guess very similar to musicians and directors etc.

Some of the best music and movies made are composed/ directed while under the influence of some sort of substance. I am not saying you have to be "high" or "drunk" to make good work, but for some people they are at their creative best when they are.

Maybe it's my lack of wanting to grow up or loving "sticking it to the man" but I don't think it's fair to judge people based on these premises. Yes, if while working under the influence they act completely beligerant(sp??) and un-professional then it's probably not the best situation, but as long as they act appropriately, I see no harm.

Ingelbert Lievaart II, Photographer

Hamilton | ON | Canada | Posted: 2:28 AM on 11.06.07

->> I've been at many events where beer was available in the press room along with pizza and KFC. If you're shooting all day it's darn nice to have a bite to eat and a beer or two when you finally get a break. I think it encourages a social working atmosphere for those who have to spend time away from home covering and event for several days. I think most experienced photogs would know not to have more than a couple due to dehydration and fatigue. I've often been more grateful for a cold bottle of Sport Drink when shooting in the sun all day.

Michael Myers, Photographer, Student/Intern

Miami Beach | FL | USA | Posted: 7:36 AM on 11.12.07

->> To all those up above who feel it's not right to have a beer while out taking photos, the answer is simple - don't. It's silly though to tell others not to because it might give photographers all over a bad reputation.

It's obviously different if the person is driving, or flying, or doing something where a beer might impair their abilities in a serious way... I sure wouldn't want my surgeon to have just had a beer or two before operating on me... but a beer often has the effect of relaxing a person, which may well lead to better photos.

Getting drunk is a whole different story.

Sam Santilli, Photographer, Photo Editor

Philippi | WV | USA | Posted: 11:53 AM on 11.12.07

->> Ingelbert, "it's darn nice to have a bite to eat and a beer or two when you finally get a break"....must be the Canadian culture...can I move there too? Sometimes we Americans (USA), take ourselves too serious.
Having a beer or glass of a wine at a function is up to the individual photographer and the situation. If you are not driving, or shooting all day at an adult event, or are related to the people who hired you, it may be ok.
If you are assignment for your employer who is a big corporation, no, that just opens too many liability issues.

Ingelbert Lievaart II, Photographer

	Hamilton \| ON \| Canada \| Posted: 1:54 AM on 11.14.07
	->> Sam, you're more than welcome here in the Great White North. As far as shooting for big corporations, I try to stay away from them. I do take in to consideration who I'm covering the event for though because I'm representing their organization.

Ingelbert Lievaart II, Photographer

	Hamilton \| ON \| Canada \| Posted: 1:56 AM on 11.14.07
	->> Sam, you're more than welcome here in the Great White North. As far as shooting for big corporations, I try to stay away from them. I do take in to consideration who I'm covering the event for though because I'm representing their organization. It's common sense to know when and when not to have a drink.

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