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Thoughts on angles for beach volleyball?
Mat Gdowski, Photographer
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La Mirada | CA | USA | Posted: 11:15 PM on 05.06.07 |
->> Hey all...
I was wondering your thoughts on the better/best angles to shoot outdoor volleyball action. Where is the best placement to be at when shooting? Which side do you shoot? Do you shoot both sides at the same time or just concentrate on one side (2 players instead of all 4) and don't "bounce" back and forth?
I noticed a lot of different locations that people were shooting from yesterday. Some in the back corner of the court, some from right near the net, and some from up in the stands/media tower. I understand that there are different angles for the different types of shots that they wanted to get, but I was just wondering on who/what they were shooting in each location. Mainly the back corner of each court. Were they shooting the opposite side of the court (players facing them) through the net? or were they shooting the closer players (same court side) from behind?
I was out at the AVP Open in Huntington Beach on Saturday and did a lot of shooting. I got a lot of "back" shots, so to speak. I shot some of the action "through the net" but wasn't sure if that would be considered an "acceptable" shot or not. Wasn't sure if the net is a distraction or a vital part of the shot.
I'm trying to produce the best shots I can and I'm hoping to be out at the Hermosa Beach round in two weeks. I'd like to improve on the type/quality of shots that I took yesterday and was hoping for some thoughts/assistance. Any ideas and/or examples of some good shots would be appreciated.
Thanks for listening.
Regards,
Mat G. |
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Kirby Yau, Photographer, Assistant
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San Diego | CA | USA | Posted: 11:31 PM on 05.06.07 |
| ->> Mat do you have any samples from your time at Huntington? |
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Mat Gdowski, Photographer
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La Mirada | CA | USA | Posted: 11:37 PM on 05.06.07 |
| ->> Kirby...I'm going through them now. I actually shot over 1700 photos on Saturday. I'm planning on going through them and picking a few examples of what I got. Maybe one of each angle that I shot during the day to support my post. I'm working on that now. |
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Darren Whitley, Photographer
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Maryville | MO | USA | Posted: 11:55 PM on 05.06.07 |
->> Mat,
My only suggestion to getting quality photos is move around. If all your photos are of the same perspective, you might only want to take one photo all day long.
Publications want good photos, but they also want many perspectives. If you changed locations every 15-20 minutes, you would have a better collection of images than if you park in a corner for an hour. You want to maximize the possibilities from this gig so show it in a minimum of four different looks.
high and tight (300 or 400mm)
high and wide (70-200mm)
low and wide (35mm, 50mm, 70mm)
low and tight (200mm or 300mm)
in profile (70-200mm)
from behind (35mm, 50mm, 70-200mm)
at the net in profile blocking/spiking
at the net straight on blocking/spiking
Serve, bump, set, spike, dig from every location. Paint a broad picture with your coverage.
Question is... whom do you serve? Are you there to serve the interest of a corporate sponsor or a news organization? If you're there to server a sponsor, chose perspectives that include their mark.
BTW, I've never shot "beach" volleyball, just a lot of college volleyball and I need a diverse set of images so that our media guides don't become dull. |
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Mat Gdowski, Photographer
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La Mirada | CA | USA | Posted: 12:07 AM on 05.07.07 |
->> Here is one example of a shot I took.
http://www.southbayphoto.com/avp/walsh_mcpeak_2422.jpg
It's a shot of Kerri Walsh vs. Holly McPeak with Logan Tom looking on.
It's just one of the ones that I saw that was kind of "through the net" from the back corner of the court. It's where you see the back of Walsh, but the front of McPeak & Tom.
Darren...I did try to move around here and there. I didn't stay in the same spot all the time. I also moved to different courts that were running (I believe 8 total) to capture different aspects of the game. I tried to get some shots of the serve, receiving the serve, up on the net (spiking and blocking) and some dives. I didn't really focus on one or two players but almost followed the ball, within reason. So, I'm sure I missed some action doing it that way, but I thought it would yeild some good shots of action. I also did my best to get the ball in the shot. However, I think my shutter speed on a lot of shots was a bit low because the ball and some hand motions are blurred even though the players are in focus. I'm used to shooting motorsports and pretty much can freeze everything around 1/1000 or so, so I think I underestimated the speed of the players. Hehehe...
Again, I appreciate any and all of information as it will help me out in Hermosa Beach. I figure the only way to get better is to keep going at it. |
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Darren Whitley, Photographer
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Maryville | MO | USA | Posted: 12:21 AM on 05.07.07 |
->> 1/1000 of a second on a digital camera isn't the same as it would be on a film body. I don't know the reason, but I do find motion blur at that speed in a limited number of photos. I never noticed that on film.
My best guess is that it has something to do with how the sensor scans the scene. I don't have the engineering background to test this further, but you might experiment by going up to 1/2000. Photos shot in profile tend to show this most. A hitter's arm on a spike will show motion blur at the fingers. And a ball coming down on a bump may also have motion blur. |
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Michael Chansley, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Ventura | CA | USA | Posted: 1:42 AM on 05.07.07 |
| ->> There are a lot of good angles you can shoot from for outdoor beach volleyball. There is no ONE or TWO angles that are best. You have to move around a lot. I like to shoot up a little bit (like 6 or 7 feet) and across from the lead official if it is possible. This way I can cover both sides. This also helps since you can cover the entire court and nothing will be in your way. You still have to move around to get shots of blocking and the better jube shots come from lower angles. You just have to keep shooting and see what works best or you. |
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Wally Nell, Photographer
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CAIRO | EG | EGYPT | Posted: 3:16 AM on 05.07.07 |
->> Here is some food for thought. Shoot what is the most difficult. Your editor will want pictures that not only shows peak action, but that are different. Now serve shots, bump shots and net shots are a dime a dozen, but good peak action dig and dive shots are extremely hard to get. If you speak to any of the volleyball publications' editors, they will tell you that they will place a good dig/dive shot anytime over a good net shot or bump shot. Peak action is defined as the moment the ball hits the player's hand or just before the ball hits the hand, the ball being very close to the player's hand.
Yes you can move around a lot, but I dare say you will miss shots when you do that. I have shot beach vb for many years and I know that I get 4 or 5 if I am lucky, good dive shots from a weekend. And I camp in the corner to do that. The editor I shot for prefered that over the staple serve/bump/net shots. And when you camp in a corner, shifting with the light, you can shoot the net stuff as well, you don't have to always shoot the digs. So you can get good shots camping in one place,and come up with different angles as you shift with the light.
I see in the shot you showed that the background seems pretty distracting. The idea is to use the longest lens you have and isolate the action. There are times the pictures that show the whole body works, but they are also a dime a dozen. If you shoot wide open with a long lens, you will be able to deal with your background a little better.
Finally, if you do decide to camp in the corner and shoot dives/digs, realize that dives and digs mostly happen close to the ground, and therefore horizontal is the way it needs to be shot. Yes you will miss some reaction shots in horizontal, but it is the nature of the beast that if you choose one way, you will lose something, and if you choose the other way, you lose something there as well.
I think there is something to be said for moving around a lot for different angles, but remember that without patience you will lose the shots if you are not willing to wait for it to happen. There are certain players that seem to have more spectacular digs than others. Recognize who they are and be prepared for them. For the ones who hardly ever go horizontal for a dig, stay vertical. Hey, Murphy's law says that you will predict this, and this non-dig-dive player will do a full layout in front of you with you on vertical and you would have missed it! Hey, been there done that got the T-shirt!
If you are sure you have your quota of good digs and dives, by all means go walk around and find other angles. Or if you find that you are not getting going with getting good shots, go find some other angles, shoot a few and then come back and camp in the corner again, ... with your 300 or 400, ... wide open!!!
Ah, I miss the beach. Egypt has lots of sand, ... not quite the same....!! |
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Kirby Yau, Photographer, Assistant
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San Diego | CA | USA | Posted: 10:09 AM on 05.07.07 |
| ->> Mat, the advice given by Wally, Darren, Michael is very good. But don't forget your jube shots. (http://www.photoshelter.com/img-show/I0000pqZ6T6rc8sg) Pay attention to which direction the players face when they react emotionally. |
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Allan Campbell, Photographer, Assistant
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Lake Oswego (Portland) | OR | | Posted: 2:11 PM on 05.07.07 |
->> Find a photo that gives you a great sense of place, it might be an overall view or something that shows peak action with a background element. Shoot details and look for those moments away from the action. One thing that recently got hammered into my head was " SHOOT THROUGH THE ACTION" meaning do not take the camera away from your eye after the action is done... you miss some great photos by ending your shooting too early.
Take a look at some of the past SSA video's and threads...... Bert has several sessions on Beach Volleyball |
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Carlos Delgado, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Long Beach | CA | USA | Posted: 5:16 PM on 05.07.07 |
->> Mat,
Everyone had some great advice for you...
I was also in Huntington for AVP...
I had some good luck shooting from above, getting some clean backgrounds & tight action. I also found it easier to follow the action on both sides, making it easier to anticipate a good dive. Check out my member page for some examples.
Good luck to you! |
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Mat Gdowski, Photographer
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La Mirada | CA | USA | Posted: 10:53 PM on 05.07.07 |
->> Hey all...
I REALLY appreciate the advice given here. I'm writing all of this down so I can keep going over it and get it in my head. Heck, I'll probably even bring the notes with me in two weeks so I can remind myself of what to do and what not to.
I had a really rough time with the background for this event. Seems like there was rebar/stands everywhere I looked. I think if I would have shot either way closer to the ground or up from a higher angle, I could have avoided the bad background.
Plus, another bad thing is I only have a 70-200 to shoot with right now. I'm saving up for a 300, so that should help me a bit when I finally get it, but for now, that's all I have to go with (that and my 17-40, but I didn't think that would help me too much!). So, even though I was shooting close to wide open on that, I fear it wasn't enough because it's not really long enough.
I think in two weeks I might try and slow my process down. Not shoot everything that moves, but try and take a closer look at what is going down and try and anticipate some of the action instead of trying to follow after it. Plus, I REALLY appreciate the advice of "shoot through the action" that you gave, Allan. I don't think I do that. I would maybe capture a dig or a great net shot/block and then stop...then I would realize that the teammates slapped hands or made an emotional burst and I missed it. So that's another good thing to keep in mind and write down. Thank you!
Carlos, some very nice shots you have there. I'm hoping to get a couple nice ones like that!
I really appreciate all the help from everyone. |
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Lyle Waisman, Photographer
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Chicago | IL | USA | Posted: 1:24 AM on 05.08.07 |
->> The last time I shot, I was a bit overlensed with 400mm, so went high and tried to shoot down over the net. Was happy with some of the results. I missed getting any really great dig/dive shots... but there's always next year!
http://www.sportsshooter.com/law/avp/ |
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James Rulison, Photographer
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Chino Hills | CA | USA | Posted: 9:27 PM on 05.08.07 |
->> I updated some of my stuff from the HB AVP.
www.sportsshooter.com/jrulison
Not the best digs but good stuff none the less.
James |
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Mat Gdowski, Photographer
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La Mirada | CA | USA | Posted: 10:32 PM on 05.08.07 |
->> James, I really like #5. Awesome shot/look.
Looking more and more at the photos here that people have presented, I can tell I'm shooting WAYYYY too lose. :-( I'm definitely going to have to upgrade to a 300 or just try and zoom in more with my 200. I'm almost positive that most times I wasn't shooting anywhere near 200. I was trying to get full body shots instead of close ups. Just one of the things I did incorrectly, but I'm going to try and correct that next time out.
Just curious, but does anyone have a favorite type of viewer that you use to go through your jpg images? I'm trying to go through my images but wanted something where I could "rate" my photos so I could come back to the good ones later after I went through them all. However, I noticed that I really don't have a good viewer. Can't use the standard Microsoft viewer (although I like it that with one click I can put the image at 100% to see if it's REALLY in focus) because there is no way to "rate" photos (and it doesn't orientate them...pain in the butt to turn your head all the time. LOL)
I usually use C1 Pro for all my RAW shots and it usually works nice cuz of one click and you can see the 100% shot. However, it doesn't work that way with jpg's...it seems to cut the size in half at 100%. Don't know why.
Anyway...was just wondering if anyone had any specific viewer that you could look at the photos at 100% and also do some sort of rating/naming system.
Thanks again for all the help/support! You all are great! |
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Wally Nell, Photographer
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CAIRO | EG | EGYPT | Posted: 7:39 AM on 05.09.07 |
| ->> Photo Mechanic or Breezebrowser Pro. |
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Mat Gdowski, Photographer
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La Mirada | CA | USA | Posted: 2:07 AM on 05.10.07 |
| ->> Thanks Wally...I appreciate it. I used BreezeBrowser a long time ago, but then went with C1 Pro. I'll check it out again. |
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