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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
What's the best Photojournalism school?
Phil Hawkins, Photographer
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Fresno | ca | usa | Posted: 12:48 PM on 04.12.07 |
->> Cornell is the premier hotel management school
Wharton is the business school of choice.
Harvard law.
What is the "best" Photojournalism school? Where do you go where people say "Oh yeah,..." when they read your resume?
Thanks
Phil |
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Andrew Villa, Student/Intern, Photo Editor
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Dublin | CA | United States | Posted: 1:04 PM on 04.12.07 |
| ->> WKU is extremely good. So is SJSU, SFSU, and there are plenty of others. There are also plenty of good grad schools too, such as NYU, UCB, and Brooks. |
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Phil Hawkins, Photographer
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Fresno | ca | usa | Posted: 1:08 PM on 04.12.07 |
->> I'm usually pretty good with the initials for schools, but I don't know WKU or SFSU....
Thanks
Phil |
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Derek Montgomery, Photographer
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Duluth | MN | USA | Posted: 1:11 PM on 04.12.07 |
->> Phil,
Western Kentucy University (WKU)
San Francisco State University (SFSU)
-d |
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Corey Perrine, Photographer
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Hudson | NH | USA | Posted: 1:13 PM on 04.12.07 |
->> I would say the top in no particular order are...
Ohio University
University of Missouri
Brooks Institute
Western Kentucky |
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Jamie Roper, Photographer
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Lawrence | KS | United States | Posted: 1:20 PM on 04.12.07 |
->> my own alma mater (University of Kansas) isn't so hot for a pj education, but is pretty good for writing.
i have, however, heard great things about Ohio University's master's program -- there were a lot of their students at last year's Eddie Adams Workshop. |
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Michael McNamara, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Lincoln | NE | USA | Posted: 1:24 PM on 04.12.07 |
->> I wouldn't say that there is a particular "best" school, but like everybody else, I'll agree that there is a good handful.
To Corey's list I'd add Syracuse, RIT and Florida.
But unlike a lot of other professions, I think photojournalism school is really what you make out of it...you do most of your actual learning by trial and error in real-world environments where you go out and shoot and then come back for a critique.
Anybody can teach you how to handle a camera and how to compose a photo, but it's up to the student for how hard they really want to push themselves. So I don't think where you graduated from really matters as much in this business compared to others. |
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Corey Perrine, Photographer
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Hudson | NH | USA | Posted: 1:35 PM on 04.12.07 |
| ->> To add to Michael I'd also chime in that I've seen poor portfolios come from great programs. And vice versa, SS.com's Casey Templeton went to James Madison University in Harrisonburg, VA and he worked to become CPOY in 2005. Also, think and ask were did today's top photojournalists go to school? If they did what did they major in? You'll find that some of the best didn't major in any photo-related field at all. Some majored in English, humanities, science, psychology, business, etc. I think if you have a passion for people, a will to learn, a curious mind, love to read and write, are artistic and love technology then you can go far without a degree. |
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Phil Hawkins, Photographer
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Fresno | ca | usa | Posted: 1:52 PM on 04.12.07 |
->> Corey,
yes, I agree with what you say, but when applying for internships, all other things being equal, is there a school that will sway a photo editor's decision?
Thinking seriously of going back to school and getting a PJ degree. People will laugh, but I'm 54 and I shot race riots in NC during the late 60's for the Chapel Hill Weekly (now the CH Newspaper, part of the N&O group) and was told I should go to UNC J-school, but at the time I was more interested in being a radio DJ and didn't do it. (RATS!!)
Haven't heard anyone mention North Carolina... opinions?
Thanks
Phil |
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Keith Carson, Photographer
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Tampa | FL | U.S.A. | Posted: 1:55 PM on 04.12.07 |
->> I've heard good things about WKU.
Ball State University has a good program.
I can't agree with Michael more about the real world experience though. You learn all the theories in college, and yes, you do shoot. But, if a photographer doesn't go out and freelance, work on a school publication, or get an internship, they'll feel lost when they have their first job.
Keith Carson
Chief Photographer
Community News Publications
http://www.carsonphotography.com
Community News Publications reaches 120,000 homes in Florida’s Pasco and Hillsborough counties with eight weekly newspapers. |
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Zach Ornitz, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Aspen | CO | USA | Posted: 2:02 PM on 04.12.07 |
->> I'd have to say that I run into a lot of fellow Syracuse grads in the journalism world. But Michael and Corey are right. You can have all the guidance the world, the best networking opportunities and state of the art learning facilities, but you really get out of your degree what you put into it. In my 2002 graduating photojournalism class of 14, only two of us (that I know of) are working in this competitive field. I seem to remember myself and the same other individual being the ones frequently in the photolab at 2 a.m. on a Friday, whether it was on campus or when we were abroad in Europe. With that said, I do run into a lot of WKU grads that I respect.
Just my two cents.
p.s. I also remember being told while speaking to a photo editor at National Geographic (while working as an undergraduate intern across campus at NGTV) that they generally only seriously look at Missouri graduate students for their intern program. |
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Jeremy Harmon, Photographer
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Salt Lake City | UT | USA | Posted: 2:05 PM on 04.12.07 |
| ->> You don't get an internship based on where you go to school. You get an internship based on your skill. It's all based on your portfolio. |
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Matthias Krause, Photographer
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Brooklyn | NY | USA | Posted: 2:49 PM on 04.12.07 |
| ->> While I don't know anything about American PJ schools I would not recommend anything to anybody that doesn't have a strong multimedia department nowadays. So who has the best multimedia education in your opinion? |
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John Nowak, Photographer
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Atlanta | GA | USA | Posted: 2:54 PM on 04.12.07 |
->> Phil-
no photo editor sorts his internship pile into "missouri kids" and then "rejects". going to a big name university may make you feel better about your chances, but i've never met an editor who felt the same way.
on the other side, i've met several editors and photo chiefs who got less-than-steller interns from some of those big schools that were mentioned. the kids came onto the paper with chips on their shoulders and never learned humility. now these editors (most work at small to mid-sized papers) are apprehensive about taking students from larger programs. i'm not staying that's a standard, i'm just saying those are the opinions of some editors i've talked to.
i was a photo editor at a small paper and I got heaps of inquiries and applications from across the nation (and even a couple from asia). considering we didn't even publish seven days a week, the amount was enormous. some were from big places and some were not. at least half of them misspelled my name/title and in one case, addressed me as "Ms."
i chose my interns on their desire to work. portfolio and experience were important, but if these students were not going to be happy shooting for a community newspaper, then how good were their pictures going to be? could they represent the newspaper well for the short time they interned? would they phone-in feature assignments?
the point is a number of factors will contribute to you landing an internship and none of them will be the name of your school.
i honestly think you may want to consider your reason for getting a degree in photojournalism. do you want to work for a paper? do you want to teach? are you looking for an excuse to become an intern? (hey that's ok too) like some others here mentioned, getting a degree is not as important as you may think. a solid body of work will impress an editor more than a sheepskin. it could be argued that you might learn more from one week at the missouri or mountain workshops than in a year in college.
my thought is you should think about whether or not you want a photoj degree before you decide what school. |
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Karl Anderson, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Lubbock | TX | USA | Posted: 2:55 PM on 04.12.07 |
| ->> Any school with a newspaper... |
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Jeyhoun Allebaugh, Student/Intern
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Durham | NC | | Posted: 3:17 PM on 04.12.07 |
->> I don't have any personal experience with UNC's j-school but I do know that once a month they bring in some pretty big names to talk to students, the Daily Tar Heel is a great paper and ive seen a couple really impressive students come from that school in the past year.
There are also a lot of great opportunities in the area including the New & Observer, Herald-Sun and The Independent as well Duke's Center for Documentary Studies. |
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Phil Hawkins, Photographer
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Fresno | ca | usa | Posted: 4:14 PM on 04.12.07 |
->> Jeyhoun,
What I would give for the late Jim Shumaker to still be teaching at UNC's j-school. He was my editor at the Chapel Hill Weekly back in '69 - '70, and was immensely supportive. He's the one who said I should go to UNC's j-school where he was a professor. How stupid was I not to take his advice...!!
My thoughts on going back to school are that as it stands now, if I were to apply to a paper, I have no formal background in pj, except for when I was 16 covering racial unrest, and no degree. So, were I to go back to school, I could get a degree, and in the process plug into the student paper, maybe apply for an internship, build a portfolio and then go from there... This is all in the thinking stage, but that's my take on it.
One question: If one were to apply for an internship off the street at my age, w/ no degree, but a decent portfolio from those days, how far would I get? I'm guessing not as far as I would if I were coming from a j-school of some kind... w/ student paper experience.
Thanks, these are all rambling thoughts on the subject, subject to much change and re-thought.
Thanks, all...
Phil |
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Mike McLaughlin, Photographer
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Neptune City | NJ | USA | Posted: 4:33 PM on 04.12.07 |
->> Phil,
I applaud your initiative to go back to school at your age (that's not a shot). I have been considering going back for a grad degree for years. I'm 38, been doing this professionally for quite some time, but never took a photo class at all, so I know where your coming from.
If it's what you want to do, go for it. BUT, I will say, as far as getting a job, an internship, etc., instead of just thinking about a portfolio of work from the 60's, go take a look at your own damn website and SS.com page!!! I don't think you need to go to school or take an internship. You shoot most of the stuff newspaper photogs shoot already, and you're good at it!
Whereas I don't think there could be any harm in going back to school, I've looked at your work before a few times, and I have trouble seeing you working at a school newspaper or internship.
Either way you go, good luck and have fun! |
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Jeyhoun Allebaugh, Student/Intern
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Durham | NC | | Posted: 4:43 PM on 04.12.07 |
->> Phil,
I'm currently interning at the Herald-Sun and my fellow intern is in his second career and I imagine was in a similar position as you. Randolph Community College (Asheboro, NC) has a two year pj program that has internships built into the curriculum, prolly would get to the point a bit quicker than going 4 full years of undergrad.
I don't know much about the school but it would definitely be worth a look as well as other programs like it. |
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Phil Hawkins, Photographer
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Fresno | ca | usa | Posted: 4:54 PM on 04.12.07 |
->> Mike,
You are too kind! Thanks!
Phil |
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Will Powers, Photographer
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Denver | CO | USA | Posted: 5:14 PM on 04.12.07 |
->> Arizona State University has a good journalism program. They have a good photo journalism dept. too. Actually, they don't a pj dept. but you can get a concentration in pj. It is being taught at the higher levels by an AP shooter with a lot of field experience.
The journalism program requires that you take a lot of other classes. For instance, biology, and then when you graduate, you have a focus on that field and probably can write and photograph with more authority about the subjects. |
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Joe Cavaretta, Photographer
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Ft Lauderdale | FL | USA | Posted: 5:57 PM on 04.12.07 |
->> gotta put in a good word for the University of Texas, and also
U. of Florida- and I hear they both have some good sports to shoot on the side. UT has the Daily Texan, lots of great shooters have gone thru there
U of North Carolina is turning into THE place to go for multi-media. See NPPA multi-media bootcamp. And I hear they play basketball up there too, but nothing like at Florida. |
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Audrey Dodgen, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Austin | TX | USA | Posted: 7:49 PM on 04.12.07 |
->> I'll second Joe's plug for the University of Texas. The faculty is outstanding, but what really sets the university apart for me is the vast resources available to the students. All over campus there are opportunities to get the information you need.
As far as "best" programs, there aren't any. There only exists whatever program is best for the student in question.
I came to UT because I wanted to focus on longform documentary work and learn video editing. The precise mix of those things, along with specific ideas about faculty, meant Texas was the only place I wanted to be.
That said, I did my undergrad in Oklahoma, at a smaller school which has turned out a number of quality newspaper shooters. It simply had a focus which was in a different area, so I went to grad school to learn something new. |
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Nick Layman, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Albuquerque | NM | | Posted: 7:58 PM on 04.12.07 |
->> Hey Joe,
What about the University of New Mexico? Given a person pursuing photojournalism has to be a self starter, willing to do projects without any direction and have the drive. Go Lobos.
All kidding aside if a person has vision and can really work on their own. I recommend the University of New Mexico public radio station KUNM. They let the students be true journalists and a person can learn all the fundamentals for audio. They turn out some great product and have AP Awards to show for it. |
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Kevin Martin, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Kohl Threlkeld, Student/Intern
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Bowling Green | KY | USA | Posted: 8:32 PM on 04.12.07 |
| ->> Well, im partial to Western Kentucky University. If you want, email me and i will give you more information. |
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Walter Calahan, Photographer
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Westminster | MD | USA | Posted: 8:42 PM on 04.12.07 |
->> Why not attend where Joe McNally, Bob Sacha, Seth Resnick and Stephen Wilkes attended?
*******
What's the best photojournalism school? The one where you apply yourself 100%, challenge yourself 100%, and grow 100%.
No one is going to go 'Wow' because your resumé says you attended XYZ University when the portfolio doesn't measure up the august name of the institution.
Time Magazine photographer Bill Pierce attend Princeton University and has a degree in English I was told. |
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Phil Hawkins, Photographer
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Fresno | ca | usa | Posted: 2:27 AM on 04.13.07 |
->> Joe Cavaretta,
Hadn't heard about UF, but I lived in Tampa for 2 years, and the 2 times I went to Gainesville, I never saw so many mind-numbingly beautiful women in my life. Hooey!
I get what people are saying about this issue; it's just that I see so many internship offers and requests here, an emphasis on students on this site, etc. so I thought I would examine the situation and get some opinions.
Walter, thanks; I drop down on one knee at the sound of Joe McNally's name. He hung the moon. He critiqued my portfolio at Photoshopworld last Sept. and was extremely complimentary and couldn't have been nicer. He went to Syracuse and has a graduate degree from the Syracuse School of Public Communications if memory serves, and his work is beyond amazing. That shot he did of Steve Martin on the beach, and of President Ford holding a 1920's era football is one of those that make one feel very small... http://joemcnally.com
Thanks everyone!
Phil |
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Todd Spoth, Photographer, Student/Intern
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Houston | TX | USA | Posted: 2:28 AM on 04.13.07 |
| ->> I used to get discouraged that my degree was not photo-related (I have a BA in Political Science and Psychology from the University of Houston) but then I started coming across more and more great photographers that I looked up to that had similar degrees. I do still wish I had gone to a school for visual communication. Good luck Phil. |
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Dustin Snipes, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | United States | Posted: 3:23 AM on 04.13.07 |
| ->> Eastern Washington University all the way...wooo! They have 3 photo classes now! |
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Corey Perrine, Photographer
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Hudson | NH | USA | Posted: 3:42 AM on 04.13.07 |
->> I think there are many ways to get where you want to go, all roads DO lead to Rome. I hear you Phil when you say you want to be at the big paper or have the hot internship. However, I figured out halfway through my B.F.A. in Photography to realize I wanted to specifically specialize in photojournalism. If I could turn back time would I do it? Sure. Is it VITAL to my existence in this field? No. Can a degree help you get to where you want? Sure.
You asked, "...is there a school that will sway a photo editor's decision? "
The answer according to Corey: It is nice. It shows you know ethics. But the loudest mouthpiece will be your portfolio, your resume, your personality and character.
Is a school going to help you see better, shoot better?
The answer according to Corey: Schools can give you advice, tools and direction and technical advice, but how you execute is up to you. Your vision. Your mind. Your drive. Your passion. Influence is all around to help your sharpen those skills. SS.com, aphotoaday.org, digitaljournalist.org, nppa.org, multimediashooter.com, lightstalkers.org are just some to name a few influential sites.
If I were you I'd work on your current portfolio. Portfolios from the 60's although nice, might raise more questions than answers to some editors. Editors generally want to see what you've been working on recently. Portfolios, although I agree should demonstrate you best work, have a short shelf life IMHO. If I were you I'd attend as may workshops as I could. I'd try to assist other shooters. Ask as many questions. Send emails. Get portfolio critiques. If still after all this you want to run up a huge college bill I'd say go after the programs that are multimedia savvy, video savvy, online savvy. That's where the future lies. Just look at the Dallas Morning News. Going all HD video and taking frame grabs. Crazy. We all wince at it and say, "It will never happen," but the truth is, it's coming. Maybe not tomorrow but sooner than we all think. Whatever you decide, it's up to you and how you learn and how much it's worth to you. Just my two cents. |
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Troy Harvey, Student/Intern
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Ventura | CA | United States | Posted: 4:50 AM on 04.13.07 |
| ->> I attend Brooks Institute of Photography. It is our faculty that makes Brooks a great school to attend! |
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Marcus Yam, Photographer
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Buffalo | NY | USA | Posted: 11:25 AM on 04.13.07 |
->> School of Engineering and Applied Sciences(SEAS) at the University at Buffalo (my alma matter)is by far the best school of photojournalism . . . . =P granted you get a B.S in any engineering...
Quantum Physics (where you learn optics), Systems Analysis(precision analysis of mechanical instruments), Gas Dynamics (how to smell a fire) and Propulsion (how to put out fires) definitely helped me as a photographer! *wink*
*GRIN* |
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Aaron Rhoads, Photographer
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McComb | MS | USA | Posted: 11:59 AM on 04.13.07 |
| ->> Devry Institute. Or The Univeristy of Phoenix. |
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Jack Megaw, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Peter Hoffman, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Aurora | IL | U.S. | Posted: 12:53 PM on 04.13.07 |
->> well the University of Illinois doesn't have a PJ program...but their student paper is quite good...worked for me alright ...
but ask me again in a few years after I finish pJ grad school.
I don't think anyone has mentioned Montana ... that's not where I'm ending up but the schools I applied to were montana, syracuse and ohio... and I applied to those places after a lot of research.
As far as grad programs go I think those are all good ones. |
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Andrew Hreha, Photographer, Student/Intern
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Ventura | CA | USA | Posted: 2:11 PM on 04.13.07 |
->> Like Troy, I also go to Brooks and couldn't be happier. Every teacher I have had has been beyond excellent, and I can't tell you how much I've learned in the few months I have been here. Like many have said already, even though Brooks may have a stellar faculty, it is all about how you apply yourself and how seriously you take your time in school. Opportunity is always knocking!
-Andrew |
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David Lucas, Photographer
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Toronto | On | Canada | Posted: 2:19 PM on 04.13.07 |
->> Lets not forget Canada eh. Loyalist College east of Toronto is the top school for PJ's in Canada and there is also SAIT out west.
Cheers
David Lucas
www.davidlucasphotography.com |
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Jason Fritz, Student/Intern
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San Francisco | CA | USA | Posted: 3:22 PM on 04.13.07 |
->> While San Francisco State University isn't the powerhouse that Ohio or Western Kentucky, we do receive a very solid background in journalism, which include reporting and newswriting courses.
Also, we get to practice journalism in one of the most beautiful and interesting cities on the planet. And where else to you get to shoot crazy protests and all the newsworthyness that San Francisco has to offer. Sometimes, you don't even need to leave campus to photograph a riot. When we have protests on campus, the SFPD is there. And we don't have a great sports program, so you are never stuck in a dimly lit basketball gym.
While I have to give props to the talent coming out of OU and WKU, but I have to say, what we lack in a program, we more than make up for in the things we get to shoot. |
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Margaret Bowles, Photographer
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Houston | TX | | Posted: 3:40 PM on 04.13.07 |
->> Phil,
I got my journalism degree at UNC-CH. I also worked for Jim Schumaker for awhile at the Chapel Hill Newspaper. It's a terrific school for editorial journalism and is highly respected nationwide as one of the top three j- schools. It was not known for its photojournalism curriculum back then, but that could have changed. If I were going back, I would definitely focus on the multi-media aspects of photojournalism. I understand your motivation for wanting your degree;it's a highly competitive field, and it's tough for older photographers to be taken seriously. |
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Jon Gardiner, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 4:37 PM on 04.13.07 |
->> UNC-CH has produced quite a few notable photojournalists and is in a great part of the country. Margaret didn't mention a little bit of trivia: Jim Shumaker was the person Jeff MacNelly patterned the character "Shoe" after in his comic strip. They both worked at the Chapel Hill Weekly which became the Chape Hill News that Margaret, and eventually, I worked for. Patrick Davison is an outstanding and dedicated teacher there. More importantly, he is a working photojournalist that produces some pretty nice stories.
Here's Pat's site
http://www.patdavisonphotography.com/main.html
-J
UNC-Chapel Hill '98 |
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Ryan Brennecke, Photographer
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Sheridan | WY | USA | Posted: 5:25 PM on 04.13.07 |
| ->> The University of Montana all the way baby!! Its a small school compared to some but the football games kick ass and you can't ask for any better fishing on the Clark Fork River that flows through town. |
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David Brooks, Photographer
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San Diego | CA | USA | Posted: 6:51 PM on 04.13.07 |
->> Hello Phil,
I can't help to think that a decision like this later in life is a much bigger one than when your 18-20 something- First of all, I would ask a few questions, do you have kids?, are you married?, will your returning to school adversely affect the quality of their lives? If you can answer NO to all of these then I would go and make the most of it. But a YES to one, should be the first thing to consider before returning to school. I did this very thing, it wasn't easy but it was worth it, and I had to narrow the search for schools to SoCal to be close to home. God Bless in your decision making.... |
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Walter Calahan, Photographer
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Westminster | MD | USA | Posted: 7:32 PM on 04.13.07 |
| ->> Why not attend where Robert Hanashiro, Bob Deutsch or the Photodude attended? |
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Marie Hughes, Photographer
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Fremont | CA | USA | Posted: 7:55 PM on 04.13.07 |
->> I went through this a few years ago. I decided to go to UC Berkeley's Graduate School of Journalism because it was close to home and was considered prestigious. I started saving up for it and a few years into the plan, life happened. ;)
If I decide to do it again, I think this time I'll skip school and just start stringing for a local paper and see what happens. I'm not sure at my age that a bunch of years in school and then some internships is the way to go. |
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Paul Alesse, Photographer
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Centereach | NY | USA | Posted: 8:28 PM on 04.13.07 |
| ->> Phil... I'm a late "addee" to this thread but I will say that you are an amazing person with so many talents, of which photography is just one, and there is nothing you can't do. So, go for it and don't look back. |
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Michael Schennum, Photographer
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Phoenix | AZ | United States | Posted: 2:50 AM on 04.14.07 |
| ->> SFSU! in the city of San Francisco! Or as Fritz calls it, "the 'Sco" |
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Joshua Brown, Photographer
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New York | NY | USA | Posted: 10:53 AM on 04.14.07 |
| ->> Western Kentucky University. |
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Neal Vaughan, Photographer
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St. Joseph | MI | usa | Posted: 10:59 AM on 04.14.07 |
->> "You don't get an internship based on where you go to school. You get an internship based on your skill. It's all based on your portfolio."
Perhaps in an ideal world. My first internship at Ohio University was a direct result of me being a student there. The newspaper's photo editor, an Ohio alum, would always hire interns from Ohio.
Landings gigs in newspapers is not all about portfolios - it's equally about networking and who you know. And many times, the school you go to (or went to) does matter. |
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Jason Fritz, Student/Intern
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San Francisco | CA | USA | Posted: 10:15 PM on 04.14.07 |
->> Schennum,
proper AP captioning of San Francisco's nickname is The S'co, not The 'Sco, as you have it. You've been out there in The 'Nix for too long. |
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