Story   Photographer   Editor   Student/Intern   Assistant   Job/Item

SportsShooter.com: The Online Resource for Sports Photography

Contents:
 Front Page
 Member Index
 Latest Headlines
 Special Features
 'Fun Pix'
 Message Board
 Educate Yourself
 Equipment Profiles
 Bookshelf
 my.SportsShooter
 Classified Ads
 Workshop
Contests:
 Monthly Clip Contest
 Annual Contest
 Rules/Info
Newsletter:
 Current Issue
 Back Issues
Members:
 Members Area
 "The Guide"
 Join
About Us:
 About SportsShooter
 Contact Us
 Terms & Conditions


Sign in:
Members log in here with your user name and password to access the your admin page and other special features.

Name:



Password:







||
SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board

What Are Your Thoughts On This.
Jason Franson, Photographer
Edmonton | AB | Canada | Posted: 12:07 AM on 02.23.07
->> What are your thoughts on this? This photo was part of a picture story that won first place tonight for POYI.

If you remember correctly it was called out as a fraud. The guy in the green hat was showing up in many different photos, helping out in some and then playing dead in another while holding his hat under his arm.

The New York Times later changed the caption to the man was injured while helping out, but still very controversial. Should this be submited into a contest and awarded a prize.

This is the winner here

http://poyi.org/64/09/first_04.php

This is the guy in different photos

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2006/08/new-york-times-busted-in-hezbolla...
_________________
 This post is:  Informative (1) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Bob Ford, Photographer
Lehighton | Pa | USA | Posted: 12:22 AM on 02.23.07
->> I see no reason why there should be any question about it being entered in the contest. I don't remember the specifics, but I remember that I was satisfied by the clarification by the NYT and Tyler Hicks when questions arose months ago.

I aslo think that the story deserved a prize because it's very powerful. It would have been easy to make several images that looked alike in this situation, but Tyler went above and beyond to make different and interesting photos.
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Jason Franson, Photographer
Edmonton | AB | Canada | Posted: 12:30 AM on 02.23.07
->> I'm not denieing that it's a great photo story. I just wanted to see what other peoples thoughts were.
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Chuck Liddy, Photographer
Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 2:47 AM on 02.23.07
->> jason,
here are my thoughts....
"I'm not denieing that it's a great photo story. I just wanted to see what other peoples thoughts were."
that's crap. you started a post calling out tyler. his work is beyond reproach. be mindful of what you post. tyler is one of those rare guys who put themselves in MORTAL danger to get great photos. you post something like this....better have something more than an idiotic right wing website to back it up.
 This post is:  Informative (4) | Funny (0) | Huh? (2) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (8) |   Definitions

Bruce Ely, Photographer
Portland | OR | USA | Posted: 3:44 AM on 02.23.07
->> Chuck,

I don't think that's fair. I don't personally know Franson or Hicks.

I think Hicks is one of the best photojournalists working today. I completely respect and believe in his work.

Seems to me that Franson was just putting the topic out there for discussion. I didn't read any blatant opinion in his post.

In my opinion, this should ALWAYS be acceptable -- even for very well respected journalists.

Checks and Balances -- even in our profession are not a bad thing. I'm guessing the Mr. Hicks would agree with me...

-bruce
 This post is:  Informative (4) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Walter Calahan, Photographer
Westminster | MD | USA | Posted: 8:08 AM on 02.23.07
->> I trust Mr. Hicks to settle this, not someone who blogs but was not there.

The man could have slipped in the rubble and knocked himself out. Easy to do if a piece of loose concrete shifted under him. Mr. Hicks then took his picture injured with the man coming to his aid.

The fact that the caption originally said he was killed probably was due to a captioning error by someone in New York who wasn't there. After the error was pointed out in the press, Mr. Hicks from the field could have communicated a correction to the NY Times.

Mr. Hicks' entry to the POY contest probably was captioned correctly to reflect the man was injured, not dead.

When all hell is breaking loose in a war zone errors happen. The last time I looked people are only human.

Of course what I write is all speculation on my part. I am probably dead wrong, just like all the propagandist bloggers at the time defending either side of the conflict for their team.

Why not write Mr. Hicks to get his story on this, and if he answers, post his reply to you here?
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Jason Franson, Photographer
Edmonton | AB | Canada | Posted: 11:35 AM on 02.23.07
->> I wasn't calling anyone out for anything. I was just curious how others look at this type of situation after all the controversy. Heres Tylers explaination on it http://www.lightstalkers.org/pdn_article_by_tyler_hicks
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Jeremy Harmon, Photographer
Salt Lake City | UT | USA | Posted: 12:37 PM on 02.23.07
->> I don't see why a copy desk mistake should make it so a photo can't be entered in a contest.
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Jack Howard, Photographer, Photo Editor
Somerville | NJ | USA | Posted: 12:38 PM on 02.23.07
->> I am going to try not to rant. Let's see how this goes.

Jason: Choose your words more carefully. Your initial post has a definite slant, either intentional or subconscious that appears that you believe the Blogger's take on this.

It is bad enough that there is a percentage of the population that has a deep-seated mistrust and distrust of the media, but to see a sentiment such as this conveyed on a group that is populated in large part by members of the media is simply disheartening.

I've had captions changed that have misrepresented the image. I raised a ruckus about it every time. It didn't make the Right-wing blog network, but it bothered me, because SOMEONE, who was not there, took it upon themselves to think that they knew better than me what was happening.

The "Spectacular diving catch" referred to in one caption would have been reflected in the score! It would have been a touchdown. That team would have scored 6 points! Considering that the final score was 10-0 made it all the more obvious that the caption was inaccurate. My caption was: Joe Reciever reaches out for a long pass, but it was incomplete. The HOME TEAM had a hard day in the air, with a number of missed opportunities.

Mistakes happen. Ethical publications and ethical journalists strive for accuracy at all times. An ethical publication will also strive to set the record straight should an error slip through somewhere in the process.

Should Tyler Hicks run away and hide this image because there was a captioning screw-up? Hell no!

Should we take the words of a blog that most certainly has an agenda over one of our peers? Hell no!

___________________________

Moving more generally, I know this topic has been beaten to a pulp, but, well, I'm on a roll here.

It sickens me when I see threads here and elsewhere that question the credibility of a photograph with no substance to the questioning. You are sullying someone's reputation by doing so.

Just because you're not skilled or talented enough to make or understand the process behind an image, DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN IT IS A FAKE!

____________________________

Anyone who has been in the media (in any editorial function) knows that there is always going to be a percentage of the public that is suspicious of your intentions--be they a commercial interest, a political agenda, or just that "everyone in the media is _______________________ (insert your opinion here)."

It's bad enough hearing and seeing remarks disparaging our professions from the general public, but to see, time and again, threads on Sportsshooter that echo or lend credence to these opinions, is just really disappointing.


____________________________

And as always, I prefer hatemail with your real name attached as opposed to anonymous emails and the dreaded "inappropriates."
 This post is:  Informative (1) | Funny (0) | Huh? (1) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (1) |   Definitions

Jason Franson, Photographer
Edmonton | AB | Canada | Posted: 12:52 PM on 02.23.07
->> Maybe I should have chosen my words a bit more carefully and I didn't know everyone was so sensitive on the subject.

Like Bruce said I was just puting a topic out there for discussion and was looking for, honest thoughts and opinions. I guess I shouldn't have done that.
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Jeffrey Furticella, Student/Intern, Photographer
Muncie | IN | US | Posted: 12:53 PM on 02.23.07
->> Let's all jump on Jason's back for actually discussing photography on the message boards. Yeah!

As far as threads go that debate the legitimacy of a photograph or photographer, I think this one is probably one of the best in terms of how it is presented. The title asks for an opinion on something, instead of saying BOGUS PHOTO, and his posting simply was to generate a discussion, not to point any fingers. The legitimacy of that image was questioned a while ago, it's not something that Jason thought up to take a jab at Hicks, he's just bringing it up for the sake of debate.

Seems like the only way to play nice on these boards anymore is to talk about the new Canon releases, and even then the Nikon guys get grumpy.

- Furt

FWIW my feelings on the image are on par with Jeremy's; a copy mistake, and later a correction, shouldn't keep a photo from being entered and winning.
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Jim Colburn, Photographer
Omaha | NE | USA | Posted: 1:17 PM on 02.23.07
->> "If you remember correctly it was called out as a fraud"

By whom?

First of all the "Gateway Pundit" is known for having a, shall we say, right-of-center bias so anything on his "blog" is suspect. If it's a choice between believing one of his rants and the New York Time I'll take the Times any day.

Second of all, there is no second of all.
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (0) | Huh? (3) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Brian Leddy, Photographer
Gallup | NM | United States | Posted: 1:25 PM on 02.23.07
->> I think its perfectly ok to bring this topic up for discussion, and there's no reason why Mr. Franson should be flamed for doing so. After looking at the series of photos, who wouldn't question what was going on? At the very least we should be able to have a civil discussion about this matter without everyone getting upset. Anyway, I agree,its a great story and it well deserved the award.
 This post is:  Informative (1) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Andrew Smith, Photographer
Ross-shire | UK | Scotland | Posted: 1:49 PM on 02.23.07
->> One of our local papers ran a brief story this week about a dog that ran onto the pitch during a football game. When I read the story I couldn't believe my eyes: It was almost entirely wrong, with one player misidentified multiple times in the headline and throughout the story. I hurried home to check that I hadn't messed up and thankfully I had got everything right in the caption, the filename, and the extra details I sent later. Some people will assume it was my fault though as I was the person on the scene.

How many times have you had a photo credited to someone else, or someone else's photo credited to you?

Mistakes happen.

This week, someone's mistake will reflect badly on me. Next week maybe a mistake of mine will reflect badly on them. We all have to just accept it, try our best, and move on when someone messes up. None of us are perfect.
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Andrew Smith, Photographer
Ross-shire | UK | Scotland | Posted: 1:54 PM on 02.23.07
->> Oh just to be clear, I have no objection to the original poster starting this thread. As already commented we all have a right, perhaps even a duty to discuss each other's ethics to make sure we're all staying in line.
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Sandy Huffaker, Photographer
San Diego | CA | USA | Posted: 1:55 PM on 02.23.07
->> I just want to know how this guy managed to fall and get all wound up in some cord while ever so snuggly holding onto his hat. Maybe he was just exhausted from pulling other people to safety. I sure would be.
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Chuck Liddy, Photographer
Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 1:58 PM on 02.23.07
->> I guess someone took offense (5 inappropriates) sorry about that. my point was, why even start a thread because of some suspect blogger? I wasn't flaming jason, I don't know him, but I do know tyler. the way I read the post I felt is was calling tyler's credibility into question. and trust me I'll be the first in line to stand up for someone I know and feel their ethics are being questioned. if someone wants to start a thread and discussion about the work how about....HICKS DOES IT AGAIN! FIRST PLACE POYI ? just a thought. we keep having this discussion on these threads. you must be very careful how you word things....and if I offended someones delicate sensibilities, I apologize but using the word "fraud" in the post bothered me.
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Jeff Brehm, Photographer, Photo Editor
Lancaster | OH | USA | Posted: 2:16 PM on 02.23.07
->> I can sympathize with both of Chuck's posts. But I agree with some of the others; the whole reason for having a site like this is to be able to bring up subjects -- even sometimes unpopular subjects -- for a free exchange of ideas. I even have no problem at all with someone saying, "In my opinion, _________" and then asking others to express theirs on the same subject.

I think anyone who is a photojournalist also is inherently a defender of the First Amendment, which is why we can have conversations like this. And even though Wendell Willkie famously lost a bid for president, I think he had the right idea about defending others' rights to express themselves. In a book called "One World," Willkie wrote: "Freedom is an indivisible word. If we want to enjoy it, and fight for it, we must be prepared to extend it to everyone ... whether they agree with us or not ...."
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Jason Franson, Photographer
Edmonton | AB | Canada | Posted: 2:22 PM on 02.23.07
->> Let me clear something up here, I am not or never am I implying that Tyler set it up. Sometimes people see a camera and put on an act for it, I have seen it happen before and the question is do we shoot it or pass it off as not legit.
Tyler's photo seems to be legit from his explainations and it's a great photo story.

At least were getting some good conversation now even though some are getting fired up about it, which is alright.
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Chuck Liddy, Photographer
Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 2:26 PM on 02.23.07
->> I concur. besides getting fired up keep me from taking a nap on the couch......hmmm.....wait.....now that's a really GREAT idea!! see ya...the fire will take a nap! 8)
 This post is:  Informative (0) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Geoff Miller, Photographer
Portage | MI | USA | Posted: 4:26 PM on 02.23.07
->> To answer the OP's question: No, I don't see any problem with the photo being submitted for any contest. The photo was originally published with the correct caption and only came into question when an Internet editor decided to take some "liberties" with the photo caption in a slide show. The misrepresentation was called out (correctly) by a number of bloggers (the fact that they were "Left-of-Center" or "Right-of-Center" is immaterial), and the error was corrected. I don't see who this tarnishes the image in any way given that there's no indication whatsoever that the photographer had any hand in the mispresentation.
 This post is:  Informative (1) | Funny (0) | Huh? (0) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (0) |   Definitions

Add your comments...
If you'd like to add your comments to this thread, use this form. You need to be an active (paying) member of SportsShooter.com in order to post messages to the system.

NOTE: If you would like to report a problem you've found within the SportsShooter.com website, please let us know via the 'Contact Us' form, which alerts us immediately. It is not guaranteed that a member of the staff will see your message board post.
Thread Title: What Are Your Thoughts On This.
Thread Started By: Jason Franson
Message:
Member Login:
Password:




Return to -->
Message Board Main Index
Chris Covatta thinks Arthur Bryant's BBQ is better than Gates Ask him why! ::..