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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Prep Sports Online...
Sam Morris, Photographer
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Henderson (Las Vegas) | NV | USA | Posted: 12:35 PM on 07.26.06 |
| ->> ...has anyone dealt with them? I'm just curious as they have been spamming me from my member page. |
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Nic Summers, Photographer
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Mount Prospect | IL | USA | Posted: 2:00 PM on 07.26.06 |
| ->> I think they are a part of Comcast Cable. Last fall they hired shooters locally at $200 per game to provide about 100 edited shots(prints for resale)of regular and post season games for selected Chicago area high school football teams through the PSO websites for these schools. PSO was not necessary endorsed by these schools to do this if I am not mistaken. One coach that I know of was telling his athletes not to buy photos from the PSO provided website for their team. Possibly there are some shooters here that shot for them that could provide more details. |
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Joshua Buck, Photographer
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Longmont | CO | United States | Posted: 2:23 PM on 07.26.06 |
| ->> I am kind of getting tired of these spam emails. I just got another one today from Prep Sports Online. If you read their contract on the web site a photographer has to shoot fans, concessions, cheerleaders, the band AND the game. A lot of work in my opinion for a mere $200. I would, and have, stayed far away from this deal. Just my opinion... |
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Louie Traub, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Las Vegas | NV | United States | Posted: 4:10 PM on 07.26.06 |
->> I got an e-mail from them as well.
These guys want 300 edited shots within 24 hours, plus a dvd with everything on it mailed to them! Sounds like a bit much when I'm sure there are local companies all across the U.S. who do the same type of business. |
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Nic Summers, Photographer
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Mount Prospect | IL | USA | Posted: 6:49 PM on 07.26.06 |
->> Scott from Prep Sports Online called me just now and he thinks they are getting a bad rap here. If I may say so, it is quite possibly well deserved IF they are requiring 300 edited shots withing 24 hours and the dvd mailed to them for ONLY $200 (I think last year it was only 100 shots) He said he had a guy that had shot for Sports Illustrated and was asking only $125 a game...no joke.
Also, most importantly, he said that the schools on their site had endorsed them and were excited to have them there shooting I guess with the exception of the school I mentioned. In that case, he explained, they already had a photographer there shooting the games and PSO was stepping on toes.
In regards to the perceived spam emails from them... I was told they were actually job offers for work as a photographer for the upcoming fall sports season. Hypothetically, I am wondering if the same emailed job offers would still be considered spam if they paid $1000 a game....
Scott, PSO and sponsors..McDonald's, Nike and Comcast must realize this is not an adequate amount of money for the level of photographer they are seeking, in my opinion...... and believe it or not, Scott, himself agrees to this statement.
I am sorry I got myself involved in this post! |
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Steve Mitchell, Photographer
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West Palm Beach | FL | United States | Posted: 6:55 PM on 07.26.06 |
| ->> I got one as well.. |
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Steve Mitchell, Photographer
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West Palm Beach | FL | United States | Posted: 6:55 PM on 07.26.06 |
->> This is a message sent from your SportsShooter.com member page at: http://www.sportsshooter.com/miamiphoto
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Sender: Scott Pruis
Phone: 800-977-3005 ext. 28
Email: spruis@prepsportsonline.com
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This user's message:
Prep Sports Online is looking for experienced sports action photographers interested in covering 100 of the best high school sports programs in the country. Prep Sports Online is a 501 (c) 3 Not-For-Profit company that has partnered with national companies such as Nike, Gatorade and McDonald's in order to provide cutting-edge sports websites to the premier high school athletic teams across the country.
As part of our agreement with each school, Prep Sports Online will hire the best photographers in the country to shoot high school sporting events starting with coverage of the entire football season (home and away). Once football season is done, we will be choosing one sporting event each week (home events only) throughout the winter and spring seasons and covering a total of 35 events from the start of the school year until the end of the school year.
Prep Sports Online will be accepting and reviewing photographer's applications up until August 11th. We are looking for a primary photographer to commit to a full 35 event season with each school but we are also interested in photographers willing to fill in as substitute photographers should any primary photographers have a schedule conflict.
You are being contacted because we have seen samples of your work on www.sportsshooter.com and we consider you to be an exceptional photographer and qualified for the position. Please visit http://www.prepsportsonline.com/media/appl.asp and review the details of the agreement and then fill out the application. As part of the application you will be able to choose which High School(s) you would be willing to work with this year.
You can view a sample website in order to get an idea of what kind of pictures we expect from our photographers by going to: http://2006design.prepsportsonline.com
If you have questions please call me at 800-977-3005 ext. 28 or you can email me at spruis@prepsportsonline.com and I would be happy to help.
I am looking forward to hearing back from you soon!
Thanks!
Scott
Account Manager
Prep Sports Online
www.prepsportsonline.com
800-977-3005 ext. 28
spruis@prepsportsonline.com
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Time: 12:11 pm Eastern
Date: July 26th, 2006
Sender's IP address: 209.7.163.2
Browser info: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322)
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+ SportsShooter.com +
+ --- +
+ The online resource for +
+ sports photography +
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Steve Mitchell, Photographer
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West Palm Beach | FL | United States | Posted: 7:09 PM on 07.26.06 |
->> Scott, please remove me from your data base. I did not join Sports Shooter to received email like this from your company.
Thank You
Steve Mitchell |
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Michael Granse, Photographer
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 7:36 PM on 07.26.06 |
->> Has anybody thought of making a counter offer? If you think that $200 for 300 edited photos in 24 hours is out of line, why not ask for $300, $400, or $10,000? Or, offer shoot the game for the original $200 in exchange for 200 NON edited photos and FTP them within three hours of the end of the game, giving THEM more time to do the necessary editing?
Any time someone offers to hire you for a job, it is an opportunity to negotiate. I have had people call me and tell me that they have a $500 budget for their wedding photography, and after 30 minutes on the phone they have given me a credit card number at MY price. It does not happen EVERY time, but often enough to make it worth the effort.
Talk to people. Find out what they want, find out what they need, and then show them why YOU are worth what YOU are asking. They can agree with everything that you say and NOT be able to afford you, (no hard feelings), OR they can agree with you and find a way to pay what you are asking. In either case, you will offend no one and you might just make a few dollars for your trouble. Also, I have had potential clients who could NOT afford me who have sent their wealthier friends to me "because he was so helpful on the phone."
It is certainly more productive than ignoring the email and trashing the company on a public forum. THAT takes as much time and effort as a negotiation that MIGHT |
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Michael Muszynski, Photographer, Student/Intern
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Chicago | IL | USA | Posted: 8:05 PM on 07.26.06 |
->> Hey guys, here's my .02:
I worked with Prep Sports Online last year in the Chicago area, and they contacted me personally through my Sportsshooter page, and I ended up covering a football team from a local high school for the entirety of the Fall.
Prep Sports was an excellent opportunity for someone like me to get out, shoot, and get paid a decent amount for it. When I was first contacted by the company, they expressed their feelings about the quality of photography they were looking for. This is a company that realizes that good photos are important to what they do. It's not just a photo reseller. Last year, they constructed a website with galleries and game summaries for each of the team's games. I was asked numerous times about "that website," and it seemed like everyone in the stands knew about it. It was important to the kids at the school
As for the business side, everything was handled well. I always got paid fairly quickly, and for me, it wasn't a problem to upload the edited pictures after the game. Sending a DVD seemed to be a little bit redundant, but PSO sent DVDs and prepaid envelopes for mailing. This is certainly something I would do again.
If you don't want to get emails like this, then maybe you should state it somewhere on your personal page. |
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Jerry Lai, Photographer
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Chicago | IL | USA | Posted: 9:21 PM on 07.26.06 |
->> Well, Mike beat me to it, but he summed things up pretty well. I also worked with PSO last year in Chicago (different school than Muszynski though). They are 100% legit, and were outstanding to work with.
It really was not as demanding as people are making it out to be. For one, I'm not quite sure where this "300 edited images/game" thing is coming from. And even still, the editing required was pretty simple: tweak the exposure, crop to 2x3, then resize it. As I tried explaining to someone last year, you can do most of that in Photo Mechanic VERY quickly... especially if you shot tight to begin with. PSO provided everything we needed to deliver them the images, and we were always paid within a week of each event. The only real difference with PSO is that instead of getting a percentage of sales like you do with other youth sports photography companies (e.g. MaxPreps, ASPN.com, etc), you get a flat rate for your time.
Also, I should note that we DID NOT have to pass out promo cards/coupons to people in the stands... something that I always hated doing. Like Mike said, people always talked about "the website" and seemed to be very excited to check it out for game photos and recap. The host schools were always glad to have us there and were very supportive.
If anybody has any specific questions, please ask me off the boards. |
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Joshua Buck, Photographer
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Longmont | CO | United States | Posted: 10:51 PM on 07.26.06 |
->> I am sure PSO is a legit company, now that I read the following posts. However, in all my freelance dealings I recieve or send a hard copy contract, not an electronic contract both parties have to "agree" to on a website. Call me old fashioned if you will, but I call it cautious.
Please don't take my postings on this topic as negative. I did not mean harm to Mr. Pruis or PSO. I am more than happy to work with potential clients in terms of price and expectations. However, I get spam emails fairly often, many of them form letters like this one today. The majority of people who contact me for freelance work through SS.com is by phone then email correspondence. This practice gives me a little more peace of mind in business deals.
Regards,
Josh |
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TD Paulius, Photographer
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Orland Park | IL | USA | Posted: 9:19 AM on 07.27.06 |
->> Joshua: Provided the proper legend is affixed to the contract e-signatures are just as good as inked ones. I find it intereesting taht the PSO website indicates the contract wil be posted last night a 5pm and today it is not ready yet. The dangers of making a positive statement on the web. Perhaps they are incorprating some of the suggestions that have been made here, after all where but on SS.com could you search for and locate portfolios of good shooters? So at least they have done some of thir initial homework.
PSO has been around the Chiacgo area for a number of years and seems to morph into difefrent forms each year. Their school websites are intended to be sold to schools or booster clubs in order for the schools clubs to derive revenue from advertising and the usual pay to be recognized as a program "friend" where parents can pay to get their name on a list and then receive a free 5x7 of their choice. Mnay of their sample sites had no one enter as "friends". They also prepare a DVD of the season with video, if their video guy shows up, or stills if not. I do know some coaches who stil maintain their relation ship with shooters that have been servicing their school and team for years, so its good to see that relationships do nto wear thin in the shadow of things like this.
As flat rates go, the two bills may be okay, but consider if they give you a school that is an hour drive away in normal traffic. Here in Chicago, we play on Friday nights so traffic is a bear. they also want you to shoot the sophomore game, so the total time at the field is 4 hours. Add 2-3 hours of travel and 2-3 for editing, unless you chimp while driving, which is illegal in Illinois (just ask Clark Brooks), and you get an 8-10 hours invested in the job. Thats equivalent to a 52K gross per year so it may not be too bad for some. On a hourly equivalent, its about 25 to 20 an hour gross, or about 18-14 an hour net. You do the math. Hey it beats some new professional teams in Chicago that pay their shoter $100 a game!
This year, they are trying again to have you do other sports in addition to football, seeking you to provide 35 events. HS schedules can be inconvenient in some seasons and pleasing in others. If you have never shot indoors, badminton will present a challenge, as will wrestling and volleyball, water polo, swimming unless you bring strobes (which you cannot use in Illinois for swimmin because the start system is a strobe system). If so, then you need to add in the wear of your lighting equipment to your gross calculated above. Also, you will need to obtain clearance in advance from the AD, and the coaches and the officials. All of that should be factored into your decision as to whether you sign with them. |
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Mike Stone, Photographer
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Dallas | TX | USA | Posted: 6:33 PM on 07.27.06 |
->> while i will probably regret getting involved in this thread as well...
-what Louie said "These guys want 300 edited shots within 24 hours, plus a dvd with everything" was on their website. However, when I went to look for the link I could not find it and it appears the site has changed, perhaps in response to this thread.
-what Michael said "Has anybody thought of making a counter offer?" is true. What they have offered is a proposal. If you are going to be in business (photography is a business, right?) then negotiation is part of it. You have the right to accept, counter or refuse the assignment. In fact, if you view their site now, even prep sports online is saying that very thing (http://www.prepsportsonline.com/media/appl.asp).
-what Scott said I disagree totally with "I did not join Sports Shooter to received email like this from your company.". While I joined sportshooters for numerous reasons, certainly one was to increase business and I have picked up several nice assignments because I am listed on sportshooters. What prepsportsonline is sending out is not spam. It is a targeted email to a community of individuals which generally would be more then willing to receive their solicitations. Do not confuse the terms of their offer with the method they have chosen.
I personally do not have any experience with the company and cannot vouch for them in any way, however, it doesn't seem prudent to throw them under the bus for trying to do what appears to be a legitmate business. If you do not like their offer the solution is pretty simple, it's called "delete". |
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Mike Stone, Photographer
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Dallas | TX | USA | Posted: 9:26 AM on 07.28.06 |
| ->> just realized a mistake in my previous post, where I refer to "Scott", I actually meant Steve Mitchell |
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Erik Anderson, Photographer
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Kansas City | MO | | Posted: 11:03 AM on 07.28.06 |
| ->> I received the same and am glad to hear the positive reviews from those who have worked for them. I'm considering applying but only after some of the requirements are clarified. $200 for edited shots within 24 hours is a might thin for the work (and travel involved). |
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Joe Nicola, Photographer
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Fort Worth | TX | USA | Posted: 9:08 AM on 07.29.06 |
->> 200 bucks a game is a good deal here in the DFW metroplex area...stringers for the major papers get $50 a game...that's right..$50. I shot for an almost-daily (six days a week) and got that last season, so $200 sounds like a pretty good deal to me. Yeah, yeah, I know...Cost of Doing Business etc.
But it sure beats stringing for peanuts! |
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Erik Anderson, Photographer
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Kansas City | MO | | Posted: 1:08 AM on 07.30.06 |
->> In my phone discussion with Scott, they are contracting for a given number of events and from the sounds of it they will occur about once/week. Football is the main focus, various sports are chosen for the non-football events.
Payment per event seems to depend on locale but the $200/event has been thrown around last year for the 80-100 images. Scott indicated that they are looking for 2-300 images, mostly action, some of the crowd, cheerleaders, etc and that the rate is negotiable. The fact that contractees have a steady string of events should play into the going rate.
From our conversation, photos are to be uploaded (web versions done by software that Scott indicated was provided) within 24 to the server and the full res versions burned to a DVD that they provide within 2-3 days. Consensus is that payment is made within 7-10 days of receipt of the DVD.
On a side note, I have to ponder the same thing as Mr. Summers when he said 'Hypothetically, I am wondering if the same emailed job offers would still be considered spam if they paid $1000 a game....' |
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John Howley, Photographer
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Circleville | OH | USA | Posted: 10:27 AM on 07.31.06 |
| ->> I'm trying to figure out how you get 2-300 good images from a Friday night football game under the lights. Especially if it's a team that runs between the tackles a lot. I guess you should figure in some extra money for all the flash batteries. |
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Deb Partridge, Photographer
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Plainfield | IL | USA | Posted: 9:12 PM on 09.03.06 |
| ->> I actually started shooting for them this year and I love it. The assignments are very close,( In fact most of the season is within 10 min of my house), the uploading software and resizing software is provided and It actually is easier than everyone seems to think. I must shoot 500-600 photos at one game. Of course I overshoot alot. I actually have trouble getting it down to the ammount needed. They send you all of the DVD's and prepaid envelopes to send back to them. I especially like the fact that One night a week makes me a nice little income. I am the mom of four and they love football so we even make it a family thing and we all just go to the game. It is really fun. As for shooting the crowd, band and such That makes it even easier to get the number of shots needed. The parents and coaches love it and will tell you how great the site is and they love the pictures. I even have groups doing stuff and when I take their pictures they ask if it will be on the site. I think it is a win, win for both, or all three, sides. |
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Louis Lopez, Photographer
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Fontana | CA | USA | Posted: 1:36 AM on 09.04.06 |
->> A friend of mine just did a game for them and I believe he is getting $300.00 a game, now correct me if I am wrong but I had heard SI guys average $500.00 per game. not too shabby pay for prep sports. There are plenty of guys covering prep sports that don't get paid enough to cover a tank of gas.
Prep Sports online is at least making a reasonable offer for your services. |
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Nadine Redd, Photographer
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Prairie Village | KS | USA | Posted: 7:54 AM on 09.04.06 |
->> I was seriously considering this but was playing phone tag with one of their rep's (seriously we both left about six message each). The rep needed to talk live with me. But due to my day job not allowing me to make the calls right back I lost the PHS gig for the season. A bummer.
I also was going to shoot for MaxPreps this season but in the Midwest MaxPreps Online is not heard of so getting access to the sidelines will be a challenge this year, especially since most sidelines require a pass and MaxPrep is not issuing one until you have three galleries posted.
I have not given up :) I just want to shoot. |
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Erik Anderson, Photographer
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Kansas City | MO | | Posted: 9:02 AM on 09.04.06 |
->> Nadine,
I'm shooting with PSO this year. I'm currently working out the details with another shooter to cover one date I can't make, but would you like me to keep you in mind for other events I can't make? |
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Nadine Redd, Photographer
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Prairie Village | KS | USA | Posted: 10:28 AM on 09.04.06 |
->> Erik,
Please do. |
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Chad McCan, Photographer
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Kansas City | MO | USA | Posted: 11:04 PM on 09.04.06 |
->> Nadine, it sounds like I landed the gig you were trying for... I ditched physics class to talk to them.
It isn't meant to be a full time job. It's a supplemental income for me and it's a way to pay for new equipment, since I am currently doing that out of my pocket.
Say what you will, but I think the pay fits the product, and as always, you get what you pay for. My hope is it turns into a 35 event booking, netting me over $10k for the year. |
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Chad McCan, Photographer
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Kansas City | MO | USA | Posted: 11:15 PM on 09.04.06 |
->> Not to mention, the first line on their website is
"Prep Sports Online is a 501( c ) 3 not-for-profit organization" |
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Nadine Redd, Photographer
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Prairie Village | KS | USA | Posted: 9:00 AM on 09.05.06 |
| ->> Congratulation Chad, good luck. I could not ditch work :) It just was not meant to be. |
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Eric Swist, Photographer
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The Woodlands | TX | USA | Posted: 11:19 PM on 09.05.06 |
->> Thought i would mention this to all reading up on PSO. They just sent out an email; apparently they have just changed their pay system, so if you have direct deposit set-up with them, instead of getting paid weekly you wil now get paid DAILY.
Something to consider... |
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Erik Anderson, Photographer
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Kansas City | MO | | Posted: 11:33 AM on 09.06.06 |
->> Chad,
Gross or Net? :) Did you undertake the sportswriting as well? |
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Jamie Howell, Photographer, Student/Intern
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Atlanta | GA | USA | Posted: 11:57 AM on 09.06.06 |
->> I also signed up with them this fall and shot my first HS football game last Saturday. They are paying me $225/game for roughly 300 shots. I shoot everything in jpeg, do a batch tweak/edit on the best shots, crop a few as needed, then resize and my job is done.
So that is basically $225 for about 4 hours of total work (game + processing). That might be small change for a lot of big shot professionals, but I consider it decent money and I'm glad to take the work. |
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Erik Anderson, Photographer
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Kansas City | MO | | Posted: 12:14 PM on 09.06.06 |
->> Looks like the pay scale is fairly flat from coast to coast.
Depending on where your HS is located, it's about 3 hours for the game and driving plus processing time (I took about 1 hour to PP about a dozen after-dark shots, resize the 300, then upload them.). I'm also writing up the games, so that takes another 30-45 minutes to kick out the game summary.
During a gig like this, it's in the shooters best interest to get everything right in the camera and minimize additional work. |
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John Fulton, Photographer
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Pleasant Hill | CA | USA | Posted: 1:36 PM on 09.06.06 |
->> I just signed on with PSO. They have asked me to shoot the number 6 rated hight school team in the country (USA Today). Compensation is relative to time and "long term gain" weighed with deveoping new skill sets, and potentially helping to take ones career to a different level.
The approach was very professional, and my contact from PSO fully disclosed his finding me on SportsShooter. We discussed the opportunity, and my interpretation was certainly not one of SPAM, but of an opportunity to add another client to my portfolio--- because of SportsShooter.
After the deal was done, I called the AD at the school I will be covering, and I got a call back within an hour and was granted full access. This is a school that will be playing an upcoming game on ESPN, so I am sure they deal with more media requests than most schools.
PSO provides this service to schools at no cost to the school as the program is underwritten by corporate sponsors.
Sounds like a win-win to me.
Thanks to those presenting their views to help all of us make good business decisions!
John |
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Eric Swist, Photographer
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The Woodlands | TX | USA | Posted: 2:08 PM on 09.06.06 |
->> Congrats John!
Somewhat related, in the past I had made several attempts to add Prep Sports Online to "The Guide" and for some reason it has never been approved. However, I just submitted it again, hopefully with all the attention this thread is getting we can finally get it added to "The Guide". |
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Bill Mitchell, Photographer
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Tempe | AZ | USA | Posted: 5:46 PM on 09.06.06 |
| ->> I was also contacted by Prep Sports Online to shoot one of the local high school football teams, but had to decline due to too many schedule conflicts. Their representative said that he found my profile on Sports Shooter, and was very professional in identifying the responsibilities and compensation. This sounds like a class organization and undeserving of the flaming that they received in some of the earlier posts. We sometimes complain about diminishing opportunities for sports photographers, so I don't know what's wrong with an organization that's giving work to a lot of photographers across the country. |
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Erik Anderson, Photographer
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Kansas City | MO | | Posted: 1:42 PM on 10.04.06 |
->> Having shot half a season of football with PSO, I thought I'd chime in with some experience since I feel qualified to now do so. Overall, I'm pleased with PSO. I spend a total of 4-5 hours per game which includes driving, sorting, uploading, and providing a 6 paragraph write up (this is additional to the photo coverage).
Chad and I had similar rough starts (getting called the day before or the day OF the games we were to cover) but after the first two weeks, it's evened out. They pay out in a timely manner and the image requirements can be met with minimal hassle. If anything else, it's forced me to become more efficient, be more aware of my settings, surrounding, and composition and figure out how to make less work for myself! It's allowed me to meet some other shooters in the area, and although I never was into high school football when I was in school, I find myself looking forward to the 'Friday Night Lights' (although as a photographer, I wish there were more lights at every field I shoot at!!)
If this was your only gig and you took on all 35 events that they intend on having per school then you can make some fairly decent scratch at even $200/event. It's up to you to decent if your time investement is worth their payout. |
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