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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Attention Illinois Photographers
Rob Dicker, Photographer
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Lake Villa | IL | USA | Posted: 10:55 AM on 07.02.06 |
->> Greeting fellow Illinois photographers (please, others just cover your eyes). I'll be sitting on the IHSA News Media Advisory Committee for the next three years. The IHSA wanted an IPPA member to do this and it fell on my shoulders.
That's my job, now for yours:
I need specifics: issues that have arisen in the past couple of years that made doing your job at IHSA events difficult or impossible. I need recommendations: if it is broken how can we fix it?
Everyone seems to have a horror story: “don't stand here,” “don’t do that.” If you ask why they’ll say "cause I said so."
I'm tired of that and I'll bet you are too, and more importantly, I want that to end. We act professionally doing our job - I'd like officials to do the same.
I want to purpose updated rules regarding field access, remotes, strobing and credentialing. But the best thing that I can do when I walk in to a meeting is to come prepared and that is where you come in.
Please assist me. The first meeting will be held sometime in August, but at this point I don't know when. I'd like to start compiling and preparing for it now.
Thanks in advance for your assistance, together, I know that we can make thing better.
Rob Dicker
Staff Photographer, Pioneer Press Newspapers |
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Clark Brooks, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 4:18 PM on 07.02.06 |
->> Rob:
Congratulations on the new post. I'll email you on the side about issues I encountered this past season that I would like to see addressed. Nothing major. While I have not had the 'don't stand there' finger leveled at me or anyone I know, there are some improvements I would like to see. Good luck and thanks in advance for your efforts. |
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Alan Look, Photographer
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Bloomington | IL | United States | Posted: 6:30 PM on 07.02.06 |
->> Rob, I'll try as well to email you. The past couple of years I haven't covered many state events, but one thing that would be nice if for them to put the rule book back online. A couple years ago, they took it off line. Now freelancers have to pay for it or depend on the firm that hires them to furnish a copy... at least the last time I looked at their website. If it's already there, then just ignore me.
Bottom line, one can't play by the rules if they don't know what the rules are.
Cheers and good luck with this position. |
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Curtis Clegg, Photographer
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Belvidere | IL | USA | Posted: 6:31 PM on 07.02.06 |
->> Rob,
I haven't shot a full football season yet but I'm sure there will be some issues once fall comes. So far I haven't had a problem with basketball or the spring sports (except I have trouble telling who the track and field athletes are sometimes since they don't have numbers).
I work in a pretty small community where the media and game officials and sports personnel all get along pretty well.
Thanks for your efforts, and please keep us updated! |
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Jon Cunningham, Photographer
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Aurora | IL | USA | Posted: 1:51 AM on 07.03.06 |
->> Rob,
It's great to hear that you are on the IHSA News Media Advisory Committee. I can't think of anyone in IPPA that is any more suited to the job. You've heard my comments on bogus IHSA photo rules before, but here are a couple of new trends that I've noticed:
1. The colleges and universities hosting IHSA finals no longer respect the IHSA credentials. Two examples: U of I now requires their own armbands at state football, even though photogs wear giant IHSA credentials. Those armbands were not available at the pass gate, requiring a last minute trip to the great press box in the sky, moments before kickoff, for some just arriving to cover a hometown team. Also, at state team wrestling held at NIU, news photogs were required to shoot from behind the press (reporters) table eliminating the possibility of mat level shots.
2. The VIP photographer who shoots to sell photos to the players and their parents has free reign at IHSA events, including matside at wrestling, while the news photogs are held back. We must be in the wrong business. IHSA has put commercialism ahead of reportage. |
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Rob Dicker, Photographer
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Lake Villa | IL | USA | Posted: 10:42 AM on 07.03.06 |
->> Jon,
Thanks for the compliment.
I've had similar problems with college stadium security. Mine was more like "you can't go there." When questioned they told me that was the college rule. I said this isn't a college game.
Give a guy a yellow jacket and he turns into Barney Fife.
As for VIP, I agree. There has to be a level playing field regardless of how the IHSA "profits" from them - I think that they give the IHSA images in exchange for the "Official" status, while all along they are personally profiting from the arrangement. I have no problem with a little quid pro quo now and then, but when that arrangement gives someone preferential treatment I have an issue with that.
A great example of this is VIP is allowed to strobe some state events. When I questioned the no strobe policy in the past I was told that it interferes with the action. Wait one minute - does VIP use some special "non-interfering strobes?" Where can I get me some of those?
Rob Dicker |
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Clark Brooks, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 11:15 AM on 07.03.06 |
->> Jon.
I shot matside with remote strobes all day during the team meet at NIU and did not have any problems. Someone must have given you bogus information. I did not have a problem with access at that meet.
What didn't like is was there was no wi-fi connection to transmit from at NIU. At the state track meet the photographers are told their is no wi-fi in the press box so we all head to a local coffee house to edit and transmit (according to a reporter I later spoke with there was a signal). The state wrestling tournament, football, and softball are all great in my book. |
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TD Paulius, Photographer
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Orland Park | IL | USA | Posted: 12:27 PM on 07.03.06 |
->> Jon, Rob, Clark: At the wrestling finals at NIU, during the medal presentation, only the VIP guy was permitted to be front and center on the inside of the press box wall. Both Clark and I used strobes without any interference or question for four hours. There was wi-fi at NIU but the hamster running the drive wheel was on break for most of the day, Clark!
Rob, thanks for getting on the advisory committee, and what I would like to do with you offline is discuss the use of strobes at Volleyball. I did a few boys games last season (May) and asked the officials, who deferred me to the coaches. The home team is my team so there was no question to the lights. The opposing coach, once he learned the home coach had no objection, acceded to my use of them. It all depends on the officals and I find that some have their own prejudices against lighting so that any changes need to be communicated by e-mail or post to the regional ref coordinator.
One major problem that I forsee in the future is the cheerleaders at boys hoops games. Both team fill the opposing ends with cheerleaders and this year I got into an argument with a coach (cheerleader) who tried to tell me that the girls were "part of the game". I think they need to learn deference to the media and those working a deadline. |
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Jon Cunningham, Photographer
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Aurora | IL | USA | Posted: 1:40 AM on 07.04.06 |
->> >>Clark,
I'm glad to hear that someone other than VIP got good access at the state team wrestling meet. I was there in '04, and was stopped in my tracks when I attempted to sit on the floor in front of the press table, at least six feet from the edge of the mat, and well below reporters and spectators eye level. Maybe they fixed things in '05. I was somewhere else.
As for football and softball being good, I have to disagree on both counts.
Football: With those big red IHSA passes that we wear, there is no good reason to send gear laden photogs to the top of the U of I stadium to collect an armband that serves the same purpose. Secondly, photogs moving from one end of the field to the other, between the 35 yard lines, were required to leave the field, by entering the first row of the stands, and then reentering beyond the other 35 yard line. This was a time waster, and the area was dangerous and slippery because it was full of fans' wet litter, forcing slower movement to the next shooting position. I covered the Chicago Bears for six seasons with less hassle than what happens when the IHSA teams up with a college to present a game.
Softball: Except for easy parking, the facility in East Peoria is totally bush league. Ten year olds play in equal or better facilities in most of the western suburbs. High schoolers deserve better. With the trend towards high school baseball championships being held in minor league ballparks in Geneva and Joliet, the softball officials should get a clue. The Chicago Bandits pro women's softball team plays in a beautiful facility at Benedictine U. in Lisle. It has so much seating (including full bleachers in the outfield) that fans can find a seat without clogging up potential photo positions along the fences. That's where the IHSA should be holding it's girls softball championships to be on a par with boys baseball.
And don't get me started on the girls soccer no-end-zone-but-stay-outside of the-ten-yard-line-rule. Rob had it right when he mentioned Barney Fife. Like most of Illinois' politics, the IHSA is a real fiefdom. |
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Clark Brooks, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 11:04 AM on 07.04.06 |
->> Jon:
You must be a negative official magnet or something ;-)
Your wrote: "Secondly, photogs moving from one end of the field to the other, between the 35 yard lines, were required to leave the field, by entering the first row of the stands, and then reentering beyond the other 35 yard line."
Pro sports and high school/college sports are two different beast. If you worked a U of I football game this same passing to the other side rule is enforced on both sides of the field. I'm used to it from covering Fighting Illini football since college here - it doesn't bother me and really isn't a big deal (at least in my mind). But, like I say I'm use to it. Plus Memorial Stadium really ain't Soldier Field. It better than passing behind the bench on the field at Indiana.
As for going up to the press box - yeah a minor inconvenience but no big deal. I tend to show up early so organizational inefficiencies tend to affect me less. Yes, the could hand them out in the photo work area under the horseshoe like at the U of I game and that might make life easier.
If you happen to have to work the state track meet you'll want to get there early. If you want a program with the heat info you have to take a trip up to the press box to get it (read 10 minutes (or more) for the crowded round trip up and down the four story box).
"Softball: Except for easy parking, the facility in East Peoria is totally bush league."
Don't put down the facility, but down the lazy communities who have quality facilities but don't bid competitively for the finals. Peoria is a competitive community that wants to host state finals. They won and have kept the basketball finals for years now. How about marching down to the college in Lisle and tell them to get their act together to make you happy :-)
The softball crew at East Peoria does the best they can with they have to work with. The staff was real easy to work with this year and last in my opinion. My only beef was with the amatuer tv guys from the Peoria area, one kid from a Quad City paper area who I had to tap on the shoulder five or six times to move so I could shoot when he felt it was time to lounge when his team wasn't at-bat, and a few mom's with a pass shooters who hadn't a clue how to share sight lines as well. I and a fellow local shooter didn't mind educating them ;-)
"And don't get me started on the girls soccer no-end-zone-but-stay-outside of the-ten-yard-line-rule."
hahahaha . . . really? I shouldn't laugh. I got kicked out of the north endzone, but shot from the other side during the second half when I covered our local boy's team last fall with no problem. Two years ago when I covered our local girls team I sat in the end zone until I realize our girls didn't have the offensive muscle to beat their opponents and walked the sidelines the rest of the game.
As for wrestling this year, the photo positions was seated in front of the media table at all three mats. We were limited to one side of the floor and I didn't have a problem shooting from balcony seating.
TD was lucky the hamster was still in the wheelie thingee 'cuz when I went to transmit my photos (during the medals presentation) there was no signal and I had to use a land line (which they didn't have enough of and I shared my plug with a couple of other folks) to send my pics. The little bugga was probably out matin' when I need him that night. |
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Joel Lerner, Photographer
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Evanston | IL | USA | Posted: 12:40 PM on 07.04.06 |
->> A little info about the state soccer: I asked the site coordinator what the origin of the "not in the endzone" rule and was told it was because one year photographers were using flash in the behind the goals and there were complaints. I suggested that perhaps changing the rule no flash during games and was told that should be considered.
Rob, please put that on your list of issues, so that it doen't get forgotten. |
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Adam Gerik, Photographer
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Peoria | IL | USA | Posted: 2:21 PM on 07.04.06 |
->> The biggest IHSA issue I've had is strobing basketball. As a staff photographer in Peoria, we have quite a few light kits that we use at most prep games (the Bradley arena has a permanent setup.) I had several times during the last high school season where I was told to take down strobes, even if they were being bounced off the ceiling. The officials or coaches claimed that it was distracting to their players. This, of course, is while a soccer mom is sitting right under the basket with an on-camera flash blasting right at the net.
If there was a way to show the IHSA that our strobe packs are much less distracting than any ground-level flash, maybe I'd stop getting hassled. Perhaps something along the lines of "the NBA and all college players have many, many more strobes going off with nil effect" would work.
And ditto on the cheerleading problems at high school games... although I've had bigger problems at U of I basketball games, where the second row of photographers have the lovely experience of cheerleaders talking trash about photogs in their way. |
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Clark Brooks, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 4:52 PM on 07.05.06 |
->> "I had several times during the last high school season where I was told to take down strobes, even if they were being bounced off the ceiling."
Adam - That problem can easily be solved ;-) if your paper put forth the same policy we have. If we can't use strobes for indoor events we simply don't cover that team, this includes swimming (except for diving events). I'm told our local paper basically has the same policy.
All a school needs is about a 1/2 season of no coverage of their team (especially during a winning or great season) and complaints from parents wanting to see their Johnny or Julie in the next day's paper will be about all you need. A nice letter in August from the paper (if you can get that support) stating the new policy to AD and coaches would clear the way for a smooth sailing indoor season.
Thankfully, I haven't had to do the state basketball and volleyball tournaments or swimming yet. I've heard the state swimming facility is the worse lighting-wise and strobe after the start are still a no-no :-( |
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Jon Cunningham, Photographer
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Aurora | IL | USA | Posted: 11:04 PM on 07.05.06 |
->> >>Clark wrote:
"All a school needs is about a 1/2 season of no coverage"
That might work in Urbana where one newspaper is the big fish in a small pond in the middle of a sea of cornfields, but we have a little thing called "competition" up here in the burbs.
The fine coverage of the Chicago dailies and the Daily Herald add to this, and force even the small weeklies to give coverage worth picking up and reading. If one paper decides not to cover something, that doesn't stop three or four others that will, rendering the "non-coverer" as moot, and unread. Up here, there's no such thing as "a 1/2 season of no coverage."
Still, I think Rob's new position with the IHSA board will be of benefit to shooters at both ends of the state. |
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TD Paulius, Photographer
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Orland Park | IL | USA | Posted: 11:21 PM on 07.06.06 |
| ->> Jon: We have stopped coverage in the south suburbs of certain schools at times in repsonse their attitudes. It works, maybe not for the DuPage schools, but it does in southern Cook. Two weeks after coverage ceases we get all friendly accosted by the AD to inquire where we have been, proving Clark's point, regardless of the energy level of the NIU hamsters. People out south read more than just the Daily Southtown. |
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