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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
CMYK and Neon Colors
Benjamin McCall, Photographer
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Kansas City | MO | USA | Posted: 12:39 PM on 04.04.06 |
->> I was wondering if anyone can help me. I work at a newspaper, so unfortunently we have to covert our images to CMYK. It is hard to explain what happens, but when i convert the images, bright, brilliant colors (mainly blue and red) get extremely drab and dark and boring.
Does anyone have any idea of what i can do to preserve the color?
Ben |
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Randy Litzinger, Photographer, Assistant
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Johnstown | PA | USA | Posted: 12:57 PM on 04.04.06 |
->> Try to get a color chart from whoever prints your paper. It will have CMYK numbers listed by each colored square. If you are trying to get a specific color like say a neon green to reproduce, then when correcting the photo for reproduction try and match the CMYK numbers on the similar green swatch.
Also, if you do the final corrections on your photos before they go to press, make sure the darkest spot on the image is in the range it should be for the type of paper you print on. You'll have to check with the printing company again on this. If your darkest spot should be no darker than, say 285 (in 'total ink' of photoshop info), and it is 297, then it will muddy up the image when it prints and lose pop and saturation also.
I would also stay away from using 'saturate' in photoshop, because if you do it too much, it will (throw the color out of gamut)and make the image muddy and even less saturated than before. |
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darrell miho, Photographer
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Temple City | CA | usa | Posted: 1:12 PM on 04.04.06 |
->> if you're using a four process color press (CMYK), absolutely nothing. true neon, fluorescent and metallic colors can only be reproduced on a printing press by adding a spot color(s).
you can fiddle with individual color channels, but you will not be able to get the vibrant colors you are hoping for. unfortunately, you will have to settle. |
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Benjamin McCall, Photographer
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Kansas City | MO | USA | Posted: 2:16 PM on 04.04.06 |
| ->> Well, I don't mean when printing. It is happening in photoshop when i click CMYK Mode. I don't know if i have something set improperly or what. But, it is a very noticable color shift ON THE SCREEN |
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Robb Long, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Faribault | MN | USA | Posted: 2:26 PM on 04.04.06 |
->> Benjamin,
I know exactly what you are talking about. I have asked many people about it and they don't know what to do. The best thing you can do is look away when switching from RGB to CMYK, thats what we do at our paper.
Robb |
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Michael Hickey, Photographer
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Kokomo | IN | United States | Posted: 2:32 PM on 04.04.06 |
| ->> Those colors fall out of the CMYK gamut that's why they change, Photoshop is mapping them to the closest color based on how you have your CMYK setups. |
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William Cannon, Photographer
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Lancaster | OH | USA | Posted: 4:52 PM on 04.04.06 |
->> Keep in mind you are taking an image with up to 16 million colors and cramming it into a color space that can reproduce 5000 colors (on a good press).
Close may be the best you can do. Use CMYK preview in Photoshop and use Gamut warning. (These assume you have a profile for the press on which you are printing.) |
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Jean Finley, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Iowa City | IA | USA | Posted: 5:22 PM on 04.04.06 |
->> Miho is right on.
In addition, what it looks like on the screen is irrelevant.
Your printer should know what (if any) minor tweaks can be done. But outside of spot color, you're outta luck. |
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G.J. McCarthy, Photographer
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Columbia | MO | USA | Posted: 5:26 PM on 04.04.06 |
->> Hey Benjamin:
You've received some good advice so far. Here's something that comes to mind ...
I see from your member page that you've been with your paper since at least last year. Are there pre-press technicians at your publication, or are you and others in the photo department responsible for CMYK conversions? If so, I'm surprised this is the first issue you've run in to.
As others have said, how the conversion looks on the screen may be the least of your worries if the color settings (not to mention dot gain) for CMYK are not in line with the press'. If you think that might be the case, my advice would be to get in touch with supervisors at the press level and start working to standardize what everyone is doing ... if that makes any sense. In other words, if everyone is using different levels, settings, etc., you'll never be able to achieve any sort of consistency; moreover, you'll never really be able to tell how an image on your screen will look once it hits the paper.
Anyway, that all said, there are a couple of "tricks" you can try to restore *some* of the color you see in an RGB image when swapping to CMYK. First and foremost, watch your saturation; try shooting in AdobeRGB on your camera(s), and for God's sakes keep an eye on gamut warnings in the Photoshop densometer (anything with a "!" next to it will be trouble).
If your reds, greens and blues aren't too far out of gamut, the following *might* help a little. [note, are Selective Color adjustments).
- To bring back some of the "red," slowly add Magenta in the SC Red Channel. Again, slooooowly. Use lassos, do baby steps; it's really easy to make skin tones look clownish if you go too far.
- To bring back some of the blue, sloooowly add cyan to your Blue Channel. Also, pull back the blacks a little in the Blue Channel, and try pumping a bit of blacks into your Cyan channel (that will probably be a little subtle).
- For greens, again, add a little cyan to your yellows; I doubt you'll see any changes in the Green Channel. Really vibrant, green tones have always been a trick for me.
**
Again, you'll really want to chat with your press folks; consistency is key when it comes to good repro. Also, any chance you can maybe slide over to the Star and chat with some of their techs (not on deadline, of course)? They've got a good bunch of folks over there, and I'll bet you can find someone willing to offer a little advice.
Best of luck.
- gerry -
PS -- Give the following a look-see -- www.riecks.com/pdf/digizone.pdf -- lots of good info on there, including some common dot gain settings and such. Again, your press may likely vary, so talk with your backshop folks. Don't let the ink stains and acrid smells scare ya -- it's a hoot back there! |
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G.J. McCarthy, Photographer
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David Harpe, Photographer
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Louisville | KY | USA | Posted: 5:32 PM on 04.04.06 |
->> CMYK
It's one of the most frustrating things in the world - trying to reproduce blues and purples in CMYK. Here's a description of color models:
http://www.serif.com/pagePlus/printing/learn/color-models.asp#CMYK
Scroll down to the rainbow graphic slightly below the above anchor point and you can see how the color spaces overlap. Note that the area within CMYK is missing a huge chunk of blue, green and red colors.
Here's a good Photoshop tutorial on the subject. It's written for Photoshop 7, but the same concepts apply to CS/CS2 (note that the "Convert to profile" menu is now under the "File" menu in CS2):
http://www.adobe.com/education/pdf/cib/ps7_cib/ps7_cib18.pdf
Dave |
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Kevin Liles, Photographer
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Griffin | GA | USA | Posted: 9:39 PM on 04.04.06 |
->> Benjamin,
I've noticed that if I lighten the photo, especially the midtones, before changing to CMYK, the conversion isn't so bad. I usually have to lighten it anyway for a press because of dot gain, so I just do it before changing over to CMYK. |
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