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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
For the Lighting Gurus
Matthew Rosenberg, Photographer
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Philadelphia | PA | United States | Posted: 9:33 AM on 12.21.05 |
->> Setup: 1D MKI (the original) a 550ex and a 580ex.
I am shooting on a movie set and trying to add to the ambient light using one of the strobes as a slave and the other as a master. It is a very small set so I am not having the infamous IR sync problems. The flash mounted on the camera is acting solely as a transmitter to the slave. I have the main flash turned off, supposedly. What am encountering is this, looking at my photos though it still seems that I am getting some exposure from the main flash. If I take the strobe from direct to bounce it seems to lessen the problem but it could become problematic later. Does anybody have any advice on this. |
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Michael Ciu, Photographer, Student/Intern
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Lorain | OH | USA | Posted: 9:44 AM on 12.21.05 |
| ->> Gaffer over the flash. Just a quick fix. |
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Roddy MacLeod, Photographer
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Bensheim | Hessen | Germany | Posted: 10:01 AM on 12.21.05 |
->> >>> "looking at my photos though it still seems that I am getting some exposure from the main flash."
If you have the pics already on your PC you should also be able to see if the master flash was triggered. |
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Randy Janoski, Photographer
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Washington DC & Nashville | TN | USA | Posted: 10:15 AM on 12.21.05 |
->> Matthew,
Even if your flash on camera (transmitting only) has the flash function turned off it will still fire a preflash to transmit wireless signals.
Also (since I've done a allot of this) depending on the set lights in use you might want to gel your flash(s) so that the one(s) you do have firing will match color temp. |
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Adam Hemphill, Photographer, Student/Intern
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Willimantic | CT | US | Posted: 10:19 AM on 12.21.05 |
| ->> Which flash are you using as the master? If you have it set to only control the other flash, it will be indicated on the LCD by a lack of the "beam." The master will still emit a preflash, but it should not add to the exposure. |
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Randy Janoski, Photographer
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Washington DC & Nashville | TN | USA | Posted: 10:31 AM on 12.21.05 |
->> Matthew,
Let me add I'm assuming you have your flash functions set correctly.
The preflash will not be affecting exposure...are the set lights on? What is your typical shutter speed? Is that possibly what you are seeing? |
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Matthew Rosenberg, Photographer
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Philadelphia | PA | United States | Posted: 10:58 AM on 12.21.05 |
| ->> After some discussion at the local camera shop we think the longer exposures 1/8 sec might be capturing some of the commands being set to the slave. The STE-2 doesnt have a flash head so I am going to assume that it is not necessary for the system to work. i am going to try gaffing the flash head and seeing if it works. I have my flashes gelled for temp and have tried using both as a master and I have the same effect. |
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Greg Ferguson, Photographer
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Scottsdale | Az | USA | Posted: 11:33 AM on 12.21.05 |
->> The preflash/signalling is supposed to occur before the shutter opens and the sensor turns on.
You can (dis)prove this by shooting toward a mirror with the same settings you're using. If the flash in the mirror is lit then it's flashing when the camera sensor is capturing light.
Or, your doppleganger didn't set his camera and strobe the same, but that's a worse problem and we can't help you here. |
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Dave Amorde, Photographer
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Lake Forest | CA | USA | Posted: 1:23 PM on 12.21.05 |
| ->> If you are using slow or rear-curtain sync, the preflashes will definitely show up. |
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Adam Hemphill, Photographer, Student/Intern
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Willimantic | CT | US | Posted: 3:14 PM on 12.21.05 |
| ->> It will be more obvious in the case of rear-curtain sync but it won't add to the exposure as the preflash occurs before the shutter opens. |
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Matthew Rosenberg, Photographer
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Philadelphia | PA | United States | Posted: 8:55 PM on 12.21.05 |
| ->> Well after a bit of playing around it seems that the pre-flashes aren't really completely pre. Longer shutter speeds seem to capture the flash signals being sent to the slaved flash. I am shooting at a 30th and it doesnt seem to be an issue but below that seems to be a problem. Covering the flash head with gaff tape doesnt work. The simplest fix seems to be to angle the flash head away from the subject but still able to trigger the slave. |
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Dan Neri, Photographer
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Franklin Square | NY | USA | Posted: 9:42 AM on 12.22.05 |
->> Matthew,
Page 104 of the 550EX Manual:
"The master unit’s flash firing can be enabled (ON) or disabled (OFF).
(1) ( ) : This setting enables the master unit to fire a flash.
• This setting is called “Master flash ON.”
• This setting automatically sets the master unit’s slave ID to A.
(2) ( ) : This setting (Master flash OFF) prevents the master unit
from firing a flash. It can still transmit wireless signals to
trigger the slave units.
Press the button and
select.
• If master flash OFF is set, will blink.
Hope this helps. |
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Matthew Rosenberg, Photographer
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Philadelphia | PA | United States | Posted: 10:16 AM on 12.22.05 |
| ->> Well I have to say the first thing I did when I purchased the flash was read the manual. It seems the flash still outputs light that WILL effect your shot regardless of the shutter speed. The only solution I found that worked was to angle the flash head away from the subject. |
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Dan Neri, Photographer
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Franklin Square | NY | USA | Posted: 1:07 PM on 12.22.05 |
->> Matthew,
I wasn't suggesting that you didn't read your manual. If you took it that way, I apologize.
I just don't understand how a pre-flash that is firing before the shutter is even open will affect the photo.
I should be getting my second 550 back from repair and I will try to replicate the problem myself. |
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Matthew Rosenberg, Photographer
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Philadelphia | PA | United States | Posted: 3:15 PM on 12.22.05 |
->> Sorry Dan,
I didn't mean to get defensive. It is possible that I might have some defective units. When I have some free time I am going to do some more objective testing in a completely dark room and if the problem persists try borrowing some flashes to see if they do it as well. |
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Adam Hemphill, Photographer, Student/Intern
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Willimantic | CT | US | Posted: 3:41 PM on 12.22.05 |
| ->> Something must be wrong. Last night I used a 550EX to trigger a 580EX and while the 550 emitted preflashes, it didn't add to the exposures. |
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Matthew Rosenberg, Photographer
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Philadelphia | PA | United States | Posted: 8:40 PM on 12.26.05 |
->> I have posted a hidden gallery that illustrates the problem using my wonderful father. The images were taken with all ambient light off.
using a 5D
2 580ex one master and slave
the slave was positioned to the left of my dad
jpeg large
opened in PSCS and sized
no other adjustments
the first photo is with the flash head of the master 580 pointed directly at my father (labeled "direct")
the second photo is with the flash head pointed 90 degrees away from him directly at the slave 580 (labeled "indirect")
here is the link:
www.sportsshooter.com/dbascent94/580ex/ |
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Adam Hemphill, Photographer, Student/Intern
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Willimantic | CT | US | Posted: 12:26 AM on 12.27.05 |
| ->> Right you are... What were the exposure settings? |
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Matthew Rosenberg, Photographer
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Philadelphia | PA | United States | Posted: 12:54 AM on 12.27.05 |
->> Here is a complete listing of all EXIF data:
I am going to search around Rob's site and see if anybody has posted similar findings.
File name: _MG_4385.JPG
File size: 3390784 bytes (4368x2912, 2.1bpp, 11x)
EXIF Summary: 1/100s f/4.0 ISO200 28mm
Camera-Specific Properties:
Equipment Make: Canon
Camera Model: Canon EOS 5D
Firmware Version: Firmware Version 1.0.3
Serial Number: xxxxxxxxx
Image-Specific Properties:
Image Orientation: Left-Hand, Bottom
Horizontal Resolution: 72 dpi
Vertical Resolution: 72 dpi
Image Created: 2005:12:26 20:05:58
White Point Chromaticity: 0.3
Exposure Time: 1/100 sec
F-Number: f/4.0
Exposure Program: Manual
ISO Speed Rating: 200
Lens Aperture: f/4.0
Exposure Bias: 0 EV
Flash: Flash, Compulsory
Focal Length: 28.00 mm
Color Space Information: Uncalibrated
Image Width: 4368
Image Height: 2912
Rendering: Normal
Exposure Mode: Manual
Scene Capture Type: Standard
Exposure Mode: Manual
Focus Type: Auto
Metering Mode: Evaluative
Sharpness: Unknown
Saturation: Normal
Contrast: Normal
Shooting Mode: Manual
Image Size: Large
Focus Mode: One-Shot
Drive Mode: Single
Flash Mode: External Flash
Compression Setting: Fine
Macro Mode: Normal
White Balance: Flash
Camera Actuations: 3
Color Matrix: 133
Other Properties:
Resolution Unit: i
Chromaticities of Primary Colors: 0.6
Color Space Xform Matrix Coeff's: 0.3
Chrominance Comp Positioning: Co-Sited
Exif IFD Pointer: 320
Compression Scheme: JPEG Compression (Thumbnail)
Horizontal Resolution: 72 dpi
Vertical Resolution: 72 dpi
Resolution Unit: i
Offset to JPEG SOI: 4722
Bytes of JPEG Data: 8211
Exif Version: 2.21
Image Generated: 2005:12:26 20:05:58
Image Digitized: 2005:12:26 20:05:58
Meaning of Each Comp: Unknown
Shutter Speed: 1/99 sec
Metering Mode: Pattern
Focal Plane Horiz Resolution: 3086 dpi
Focal Plane Vert Resolution: 3091 dpi
Focal Plane Res Unit: i
White Balance: Manual
Lens Size: 28.00 mm
Base Zoom Resolution: 0
Zoomed Resolution: 0
ISO Speed Rating: Unknown
Digital Zoom: None
Self-Timer Length: 0 sec
Canon Tag1 Length: 92
Subject Distance: Unknown
Flash Bias: 0 EV
Sequence Number: 0
Canon Tag4 Length: 68
Image Type: Canon EOS 5D
Owner Name:
Actuation Counter: 3
Actuation Multiplier: 0
Canon Tag93 Length: 32
Color Temperature: 5200 K
Canon TagA0 Length: 28 |
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Matthew Apgar, Photographer
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Bridgewater | NJ | USA | Posted: 2:58 AM on 12.27.05 |
->> Hey Matt,
Are you sure it's not a reflective bounce/fill from a wall or something on the righthand side (lefthand side of the subject)? I would think that there would be some sort of catch light in the glasses or his eyes if there was an on-camera synch problem.
FWIW, I had some problems with the on-camera master unit pre-flashing (from 550ex's) and being caught in the exposure too. I never solved the problem, but did avoid it by getting two ST-E2s. I bought my first one used for around $120 and then my company bought one for all our staffers after seeing what they do. I've never looked back :c)
-Matt |
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Matthew Rosenberg, Photographer
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Philadelphia | PA | United States | Posted: 3:34 PM on 12.27.05 |
->> Matt,
It would be pretty improbable for bounce fill. The wall on the shadow side of his face was a good 15 feet away. I am not really upset with using the 580's as a master it seems to have a fairly easy solution in pointing the flash head away from the subject. If I run into some more critical work I would pick up the ST-E2. Right now I have a working setup and would rather invest the money in a set of PWs. |
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