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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
The Switch... (not THAT switch... I'm going from PC to Mac)
Nic Hume, Photographer, Student/Intern
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Victoria | BC | Canada | Posted: 3:43 AM on 05.23.05 |
->> I've been a PC user all my life, and fully intend to keep my main desktop system PC-based for the foreseeable future, my Laptop however is aging, and will need to be replaced in the next 6 months or so... I've decided to buy a Mac...
My question, to all you Mac folks out there, is what you think a reasonable system for photo work would be... Keep in mind that a) I'm on a student-budget, and b) this will be primarily used for field-editing and filing assignments.
I'm looking to strike a good balance between durability, portability, system performance, and price. I know exactly NOTHING about mac perfomance per-megahertz ratios, nor any such stuff. My background has been entirely in the realm of PC's for the last 15 years. While I can do quite a bit of research myself on this, I'd like to hear from a few of the folks out there in SS.com land regarding what they use, how well it works etc.
Many thanks in advance.
--Nic |
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Julian Jenkins, Photographer
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Canyon Country | CA | USA | Posted: 4:26 AM on 05.23.05 |
->> The Apple web site is full of that info.
Check it out and welcome to our planet.
www.apple.com |
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Mike Carlson, Photographer
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Bayonet Point | FL | USA | Posted: 6:53 AM on 05.23.05 |
->> Nic,
I picked up a great previously-loved/previous-generation G4 PowerBook from here on the SS classifieds and have been more than happy with the results. While obviously that is not always available it might be something worth looking for or posting a “Wanted” for. I have used it in exactly the manner you are describing – my old laptop was done and I use a PC desktop. The G4 I have is not top-of-the-line, but certainly has not let me down.
The only downside, I have quickly learned, is that while Apple’s planet is a great place to be, not everyone feels it’s worth the trip, especially in the software development area.
What I mean is that I have had a difficult time finding a reliable/economic solution for using the Mac for field filing via a cell phone. Searches of the Message Board also indicate that others were/are in a similar situation. It seems that there few cell/internet packages bundled with Mac software.
When I spoke with T-Mobile’s level 3 support they simply told me to give up…they don’t have the software. Annoying, since I have T-Mobile and wanted to add-on their internet.
Just something to consider…
Mike |
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Robert McClory, Photographer
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Orlando | FL | USA | Posted: 8:20 AM on 05.23.05 |
->> Nic,
Well, the good thing/bad thing about Macs is that there are not nearly as many configurations for their systems. Currently, there are 5 flavors of Powerbooks; 12" with and without a Superdrive (CD/DVD Writer), 15" with and without a Superdrive, and the 17" with a Superdrive. With new Powerbooks, you are really just choosing the size of the monitor you want and plopping down your credit card. The idea is that these systems are up to the task out of the box without nearly as much stress over add-ons as you have with a PC system. Sure, you can add more RAM (do it) and upgrade the hard drive (do it), as well as other minor tweaks but still nowhere near the kind of wild variations as you will find in PC systems.
All you really need to do is go to Apple's website and check the current configurations and pick the one that serves your needs. If you have an Apple store or other Apple retailer, then drop in and give them a test drive. Otherwise, you can buy from Apple direct, Macmall, Macwarehouse and others on the web.
It's not like a PC where your system may never be quite the same as anyone else's because Apple is the only manufacturer of the hardware and they keep things pretty tight. That's why when you see tech questions about Mac issues here or elsewhere on the web, you only see people posting what processor (G3/G4/G5), processor speed and OS version they are using instead of the laundry list of info you need to diagnose PC problems.
I'm not saying it's bad or good, but you are entering a world where your new laptop will be identical to millions of others.
I currently have a 15" 667 G4 Powerbook with 512 RAM, 30gb HD, 80gb Firewire external, and I love it. It is a bit old now but it is still doing the job I need it to do.
As usual, just get as much RAM, hard drive and processor speed as you can get/afford and you will be happy. With Tiger out now and the first patch for it released, it's a great time to join the Mac world.
Enjoy, and if you have any specific questions, I would be happy to answer them if I can.
Oh, one more thing is that you will not find too much price variation on new Powerbooks so get the best deal you can but don't stress about it too much.
RM |
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Richard Johnson, Photographer, Assistant
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Tampa | FL | USA | Posted: 8:29 AM on 05.23.05 |
->> Nic,
I would suggest you look at the 12" PowerBook. The 12" is light and portable, yet still has a lot of high performance features for the dollar. You can get one with a 1.5 GHz CPU, 80 GB (5400 RPM) HD, 512 MB RAM, and an 8x SuperDrive (CD-RW/DVD-R) for $1499 with the student discount. I would also add an additional 512 MB RAM from a third party vendor (cheaper).
I've got a similar PB (12" 1.33GHz w/ 768MB) and have been very pleased with it.
--Richard |
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Monty Rand, Photographer
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Bangor | ME | USA | Posted: 8:31 AM on 05.23.05 |
| ->> Welocme to the dark side or is it the white side. Either way welcome and you won't be disappointed by the power of Apple. |
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Eric Wright, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Athens | Oh | USA | Posted: 9:44 AM on 05.23.05 |
->> Someone earlier posted out to add on the RAM at the apple store. I disagree if you feel comfortable turning a few screws (and voiding your warranty) you can max out your ram for often half what you would pay at the apple store. They don’t like letting a computer out of the store without upgrading the ram because the OS uses a lot. I use Dealram.com to find ram and have done it a couple of times on various computers. The hard drive is a different matter and is serious disassembly-like using a screwdriver to pry apart the perfectly smooth case. So, if you want to upgrade do it to begin with
Secondly, don't overlook the ibook line. It depends on where the upgrades are in the line but they have close to the same horsepower for a bit less money. Since you said you are not looking for a desktop replacement it may be the way to go. I am still using my 700 MHz G3 ibook that I got in 2002 as my everyday computer and while its not setting any speed records; they are pretty durable and can get the job done.
Lastly.. Applecare. Get Applecare, while apple computers may be the easiest to use tech support won't even talk to you if you computer is 1 day out of warranty and stuff happens so get Applecare.
If you have any other questions feel free to email me, I have been in the cult of the Mac since grade school. |
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David Adams, Photographer
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Fayetteville | NC | US | Posted: 10:18 AM on 05.23.05 |
->> Nic,
I went through "The Switch" in Feb of this year. I've made a living as a systems engineer with Intel/Windows machines for nearly 15 years, so I was a bit leary when I took the plunge, but I did it....and never looked back!
I was torn between the Powerbook and iBook when looking. But after visiting the Apple store and looking, I decided to save myself some $$$ and pick up the iBook. Performance is nearly the same, and I could put the $$$ I saved into RAM, a nice carry case/backpack, wireless mouse, etc.
Some great suggestions so far, and I would only add one other: While shopping online at APPLE.COM or at your local Apple store, ask about used/refurbed inventory. Those units will save you even MORE $$$ and come with all the same accessories/software/manuals/etc. Most importantly, they come with the same warranty in case something goes wrong.
Another note just popped into my head - this was actually what pushed me into the purchase of an Apple product: The resale value of Apple laptops is pretty high compared to Intel/Windows units. So even if I bought the laptop and decided it wasn't for me, I knew I could sell it a couple of months down the road and get back at least 75% of my purchase price... try THAT with a "PC"!
As someone posted earlier - welcome to our "world" ;)
Dave |
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Amir Gamzu, Photographer
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Ann Arbor | MI | USA | Posted: 10:24 AM on 05.23.05 |
->> My only advice for you while making the switch is; don't forget to look at software costs. When you switch you will need to buy new versions of most of the software you use, so try think about that when you'r working on how much to budget.
As a long time dual user, who has been using mostly PC recently, but my first 15 years of computing were mostly Apple. Here is the #1 thing I don't like about the macs; (yes there are things I don't like about the PC too)
- mouse/mice - man mac has the worst mouse in my opinion, specially the new clear one that you 'press down' to 'click', very stylish, but I hate using them, plus why not ship a mouse with TWO buttons?? You can use your machine faster with two buttons, and a wheel doesn't hurt either. The first thing I would buy for a Mac would be a good mouse. |
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Eric Bellamy, Photographer
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Loveland | CO | USA | Posted: 10:50 AM on 05.23.05 |
| ->> I would suggest looking at macmall, clubmac, etc., they usually offer a free RAM upgrade when you buy from them. The apple store in my experience never does. I agree with Amir mouse coment, you can get used to it pretty quick, or just buy a three button mouse. |
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Chris Preovolos, Photographer
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Stamford | CT | United States | Posted: 11:01 AM on 05.23.05 |
| ->> I'm almost positive that installing RAM yourself does not void your warranty as stated in a post earlier in this thread. And I also agree that MacMall is a good place to buy a new Mac. You will get rebates on the ram, possibly free shipping. Small Dog is a good place to buy a refurbished machine if you don't want to pay the sales tax that apple.com will charge. Of course you will make sure to pay your state back when tax time comes around next year. |
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Will Vragovic, Photographer, Student/Intern
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Muncie | IN | United States | Posted: 12:47 PM on 05.23.05 |
->> Hi Nic-
I was in the exact same situation a couple of months ago, though I didn't already have a PC laptop to replace, I just needed a laptop. I'd been PC all my life, and still have my PC desktop.
I was on a tight budget (yeah, I'm at school, too) so I weighed my options. I ended up going with the 12" iBook. I love it. I bought the base model, then added 512MB of RAM from Crucial.com and intalled it myself (simple process on the iBook). The only gripe I have is that I didn't have more money at the time to spring for a larger HD, I can fill 30GB in a hurry. You'll love the mac envirionment when you're working on photos, Expose is awesome when you're working on several photos in photoshop, plus bouncing back to PhotoMechanic to pull something else from your edit, and running Safari to email photos back to the school paper, and using iChat to let your friends know when you'll be back in town. Oh wait, that was me last night in the Media Center after covering Bump Day at the speedway in Indianapolis...
That should also give you an idea of what the iBook is capable of- 1.2Ghz w/ 768MB of RAM and I was doing all that without any hangups or speed issues.
Good luck, welcome to the Mac-side
--Will |
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PJ Heller, Photographer
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Santa Barbara | CA | USA | Posted: 1:03 PM on 05.23.05 |
->> You’ve already gotten loads of good advice.
If you are a student, you can save a little more by using through Apple with its educational discounts. There’s a link to it on the Apple store site.
Also, when you get ready to buy, check out powerbookcentral.com for latest prices and deals (some dealers will add extra RAM and/or include a printer). |
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john taggart, Photographer
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Philadelphia | PA | USA | Posted: 1:08 PM on 05.23.05 |
| ->> i picked up the lowest priced ibook, and it does everything i need, it costs around $999.00 and if you buy it in delaware it will be tax free |
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Oscar Sosa, Photographer
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Jacksonville | FL | USA | Posted: 1:31 PM on 05.23.05 |
->> nic,
You've gotten great advice, I'm just going to tell you what I use. I have an older iBook and am very pleased with it. I have a 12-inch 500mhz iBook with 512 ram, 10-gig hd, combo drive, airport card and a d-link bluetooth module, running OSX. It's older, but still serves me well. You can get this system used for around $450-$500. It's not a replacement for a deskop system, but it works well for transmitting. Just make sure you get a large-enough harddrive, they're a bear to upgrade in the iBooks.
If I were to upgrade, I'd get a 15-in powerbook, at least 512 ram (probably 1-gig), Airport card, bluetooth, 40-gig (at least) HD, superdrive and have an external HD available. You will need Photoshop, Photo Mechanic, an image recovery program and I'd recomend looking into Apple Works, it's cheaper than MS Office and works about the same.
if you shop around you will be able to get a very good used or refurbished system at a reasonable price. May the Mac-Force be with you.
Oscar |
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Nick Layman, Student/Intern
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Albuquerque | NM | | Posted: 2:03 PM on 05.23.05 |
->> Hey Nic,
Student discounts on the Apple page. Find out if your University is qualified I got a 15 inch powerbook for a steal. Take care. Its fast and friendly.
Nick |
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Dianna Russell, Photographer
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Springfield | MO | USA | Posted: 2:05 PM on 05.23.05 |
->> My desktop is PC and will need to go to the shop yet again because of Trojans and a virus or two picked up on the Internet. The virus protection didn’t do much to protect it. And don’t even get me started about popups. I had that machine stripped out a year ago and it’s almost unusable yet again.
I needed a laptop for the SportsShooter Academy in February and have only owned PCs. There was no way I wanted to go through that crap with a laptop so Mac was my obvious choice. I bought a 14” G4 iBook with a super drive and I absolutely love it.
The Logitech wireless mouse with a scroll wheel is very handy too. I had a hard time getting used to the track pad and love the wireless mouse.
Good luck on your choice.
Dianna |
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Jared Dort, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Cottonwood | AZ | usa | Posted: 4:02 PM on 05.23.05 |
->> Nic,
Since you're a student, you can get some killer deals on software. Keep in mind you'll need to pickup Photoshop, IView Media Pro and probably Microsoft Office (which can come later). I saw a post earlier about a student discount on Panther for $10.
Upgrades are simple and usually explained in the user guide provided with the computer. Do it your self and save $$.
IBook vs Power Book is really a tight subject. The PB is a little more expensive, but they are very close in performance.
Another side note to Mac:
I've had Mac for a few years and never had a virus problem. I remember reading somewhere that the Mac OS is the hardest to crack. The numbers are really low.
My brother-in-law had a power book and just sold it to buy a Dell. Within three months he's spending most of his time on the horn dealing with a virus issue.
When a program is installed on Mac, it doesn't branch out into other areas of the OS. To uninstall a program, you just toss it in the trash. PC is different. Programs install all over the place, so when a virus hits it spreads everywhere.
Hope that helps. Make the switch, you won't be disappointed. |
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Jared Dort, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Cottonwood | AZ | usa | Posted: 4:12 PM on 05.23.05 |
->> Nic,
The price on an IBook 12" is $999 - not including student disconts. It comes with a 1.2 GHz processor, 256 RAM and a 30 GB hard drive. For $300 more, you could get the 14" with 60 GB and a 1.33 GHz processor. Again, not including your discount.
Plus ... the iBook looks cool.
Oh. It's Tiger that was selling for $10, but the new laptops come with it. |
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Thad Parsons, Photographer, Student/Intern
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Oxford | UK | United Kingdom | Posted: 4:30 PM on 05.23.05 |
->> Two comments (and these are re-enforce a couple all ready made):
EDUCATIONAL DISCOUNT ... I got my 12" iBook G4 with the edu discount and it was big enough to pay for the extra RAM and part of the larger harddrive
SOFTWARE ... If you own PC versions of some software, you can "trade" it for Mac versions of the same software. |
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Damon Moritz, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Woodbridge | Va. | USA | Posted: 7:45 PM on 05.23.05 |
| ->> get an iBook. New or used. E-bay is a good place to look for deals. |
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David Adams, Photographer
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Fayetteville | NC | US | Posted: 10:19 PM on 05.23.05 |
->> One more hint - Amazon currently has $100 - $200 rebates on Apple products...
David |
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David M. Russell, Photographer
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New York | NY | USA | Posted: 11:51 PM on 05.23.05 |
->> I didn't read through all the posts, so forgive me if I'm being totally redundant.
Look into student pricing. You won't save much, but you will save.
And not just on the laptop. You should be able to get educational versions of most of the software you need/want, which is much cheaper and does all the important stuff.
Consider the 12" iBook. It's really durable and not much of a trade off in computing power. |
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Nic Hume, Photographer, Student/Intern
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Victoria | BC | Canada | Posted: 2:37 AM on 05.24.05 |
->> First off, I'd just like to say a big THANK YOU, not only to those fine folks who have posted to the message-board, but also those non-SS members who have contacted me via email. The advice has been great, but I have a few lingering questions...
I'm looking, tentatively, at a 12" PowerBook, or possibly even a 15". (Key word: tentatively.) From what I've heard from people both on, and off-line, it will likely be worth it, bang-for-buck wise... HOWEVER... The following questions still remain:
a) 512, 1024, or 2048 megs of RAM??? Is it worth the $$$ ?
b) Are there any REAL advantages to a "Superdrive" over a "ComboDrive" that would make a difference in the real world???
c) 64 vs 128 Megs of Video RAM. Particularly for photo editing, how will this affect my life?
d) What are real-life battery run-times like? The website says 4.5 hours for a 15", but that seems a bit long, especially if I'm planning on intensive editing.
Any and all thoughts on these questions would be much appreciated.
--Nic |
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Nick Layman, Student/Intern
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Albuquerque | NM | | Posted: 3:01 AM on 05.24.05 |
->> Hey Nic,
I just bought my 15 inch powerbook with everything. I figured it would be an investment considering all the new bells and whistles on the cameras now. I got more memory and ram. Its worth it. Also get the warranty plan. Take care and the battery life is what it says. I usually keep it plugged in. Take care.
Nick |
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Monty Rand, Photographer
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Bangor | ME | USA | Posted: 7:53 AM on 05.24.05 |
| ->> Student pricing is abut 100-150 cheaper. You don't save much, but you save. Student discount on software is another whole animal all together. Those discounts are sometimes like 60-75 off retail price. |
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Robert McClory, Photographer
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Orlando | FL | USA | Posted: 8:43 AM on 05.24.05 |
->> Nic,
The Superdrive is essential if you are not going to invest in an external DVD burner. Also, more ram always helps but I have 512 in my Powerbook and it works fine for me. I think I would like to have a gig just so Photoshop has more to work with, and that is always the consideration. The less photoshop has to access the HD, the better.
As for battery life, mine is currently dead, but when it did work, I used to get around 2.5 hours out of it with any intensive apps running. I don't know if they have improved that (I suspect they have) but that was my experience.
Good luck.
RM |
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Greg Ferguson, Photographer
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Scottsdale | Az | USA | Posted: 12:49 PM on 05.24.05 |
->> >I'm looking, tentatively, at a 12" PowerBook, or possibly even a 15". (Key
>word: tentatively.) From what I've heard from people both on, and off-
>line, it will likely be worth it, bang-for-buck wise... HOWEVER... The
>following questions still remain:
The 12" is a lot more portable and very fast. The trade-off nobody remembers is that it's also very hard to replace internal parts like the hard-drive and optical drive if need be. It's a major disassembly on my wife's 12" PB to get to the SuperDrive, where the 15" it's easy.
>a) 512, 1024, or 2048 megs of RAM??? Is it worth the $$$ ?
Always add as much RAM as you can afford with modern operating systems. MacOS X is based on Unix which loves real memory. It will use hard-disk for swapping out parts of running applications when they're not activily being used, but RAM allows the system to not do that. The benefit is speed - drives are slower than RAM, so if you want to make the system run as fast as possible add it in. The added benefit is that as the system ages and you upgrade various programs and the OS, you won't need to worry about running out of space because, over time, all programs continue to grow in size because new features get added, not taken away.
>b) Are there any REAL advantages to a "Superdrive" over a "ComboDrive"
>that would make a difference in the real world???
YES! You can back-up a couple gigabyte chips to one DVD. It takes several CDs to back up one gigabyte chips. Also, it may seem like it now, but you might just need to create and burn a DVD slide show. They can be very effective ways to present your work. I did an hour-long presentation to music on my wife's 12" PB using Apple's iLife apps that just rocks.
>c) 64 vs 128 Megs of Video RAM. Particularly for photo editing, how will
>this affect my life?
Video RAM... I'm not sure there's much value added unless you're going to attach the PB to a big Apple Cinema (or other brand) LCD.
My 15" PB is old, and it works great with my 19" Sony LCD without any added video RAM.
>d) What are real-life battery run-times like? The website says 4.5 hours
>for a 15", but that seems a bit long, especially if I'm planning on intensive
>editing.
2.5 is more likely. I don't consider portables truly portable yet. I think of them as having enough battery life to carry me over between the times I have A/C power, like on a normal length flight, or when I'm working away from the hotel room. If I have A/C power available, I'll take advantage of it rather than risk the battery dying when I'm doing something crucial, like printing or burning a disc or ingesting a card... or watching a DVD or showing images to someone. |
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Vasha Hunt, Photographer
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Opelika | AL | USA | Posted: 1:25 PM on 05.24.05 |
->> The RAM Issue--- I Have 1.5 gigs and still see photoshop slow down when going through a bunch of RAW files (with Photo Mechanic, fetch, safari and word running) - I hope to bump up to 2 Gigs soon. OWC has a nice special on 1 GIG RAM chips - $139.00 -- http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/specials/ -- will get you there, and I have had excellent support from OWC in the past.
Also on a mac you can add IPTC data to RAW files using Photomechanic (the feature will be added for PC in the 4.4 version of PM however).
Video RAM differences affect gamers and 3/D artists more than photogs. More will look better when you go to sell it on Ebay to upgrade to the newest and brightest mac at some point.
For the sake of speed, you may want to consider a 5400 or 7200 RPM notebook hard drive - more rpm makes hard drive intensive tasks much faster (photoshop, start-up, copying images, etc.).
Hope this helps.
Vasha |
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Jim Colburn, Photographer
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Omaha | NE | USA | Posted: 3:20 PM on 05.24.05 |
->> I've decided to buy a Mac...
1) Buy a 14 inch iBook. Don't spend the extra $$$ on a Powerbook if you're on a budget.
2) Buy extra RAM from www.crucial.com and install it yourself. It's easy and there are instuctions are on Apple's web site.
3) Put in as much RAM as you can afford.
4) Get the iBook with the 60Gb hard drive and a Superdrive (reads and writes both CDs and DVDs).
5) Buy a Lexar firewire CF card reader for $40
6) Buy an HP Laserjet 1012 for $200. It makes for professional looking invoices and such and running costs are less than an inkjet printer.
7) If you're a student or know anyony that is get the educational discpount, take advantage of educational discounts to buy things like Photoshop and MS Word while you have the chance.
8) Pay the extra money for the extended warrantee (Apple Care).
9) Take good pictures. |
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David Adams, Photographer
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Fayetteville | NC | US | Posted: 9:15 PM on 05.24.05 |
->> I don't know about the Powerbook, but with my iBook, I regularly get 3-4 hours of battery doing .NEF imports, PS editing, web surfing, etc.....
If you do make the jump to an Apple portable, be sure to check on my posting regarding Apple's laptop battery recall:
http://www.sportsshooter.com/message_display.html?tid=16025
Good luck!
Dave |
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Kirby Yau, Student/Intern
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El Cajon | CA | USA | Posted: 6:21 PM on 05.28.05 |
->> 12” Powerbook
512
100GB HD
Super drive
$1,589.00 (edu)
• ALWAYS get the biggest HD it’s a pain to swap these guys out.
• 12” Powerbook is recommended over an iBook because of screen spanning not just screen mirroring.
• The Super Drive will help with a resale value in the future.
Dell 20” Flat Panel
$397 (always changing but in the price range)
• Second screen is recommened because the 12” Powerbook’s screen res is 1024x768.
1 gig of RAM from macsales.
http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/memory/iBooks-PowerBooks/G4-Aluminum/
Buy RAM from Third Party vendors because it will cost you more at Apple.
Mac sales is a great company. Lifetime warranty on the ram
This setup is about 2200 bucks but it’s a good one its about the same price as a 15” inch with a superdrive.
Good luck with your choice. Buying a new laptop is a rough thing because it opens the door for more purchases.
-Keyboards
-Mice
-Cases
-FireWire Readers
-Extra power adaptors
-External HDs
-External DVD burners
- The list goes on.
-Printers
But the most important is APPLECARE, Jim Colburn is right. The Warranty can be purchased at the end of the factory 1 year warranty.
Keep us posted on what you get. |
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