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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
1D Muddy Green Cast
Jon Ramirez, Photographer
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Red Bank | NJ | | Posted: 7:18 PM on 03.29.05 |
->> I was editing with my staff this weekend over 12,000 images from three events we shot this past weekend. I have a photographer who shoots with a Canon 1D and for the past year now he has consistent muddy green images. I know the 1D might have characteristics of certain color swings.
See attached link to three samples
Might anyone give me some advice on how I can help this from happening.
Here were his settings
ISO 320
Aperture 4.5
Shutter 4000
Exposure comp + 0.3
Focus mode: AI Servo Af
White Bal: Daylight
ICC Profile: Adobe RGB (1998)
Thank you in advance.
J. Ramirez
http://www.f8images.com/details.php?id=42 |
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Joshua Brown, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Salt Lake City | UT | USA | Posted: 7:30 PM on 03.29.05 |
| ->> You need to load a custom tone curve into his camera. A search on the Galbraith forums will turn up plenty. |
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John Green, Photographer
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Northern | CA | USA | Posted: 8:55 PM on 03.29.05 |
| ->> I am having the green image problem too. I could not find a link that worked on the Galbraith site, can anyone help |
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Joshua Brown, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Joshua Brown, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Greg Ferguson, Photographer
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Scottsdale | Az | USA | Posted: 9:40 PM on 03.29.05 |
->> When I got my 1D, I thought the contrast was too aggressive compared to my D1X, and the colors weren't what I expected.
I set it up using the Sports Illustrated settings, but the images still weren't what I thought they should be.
http://www.siphoto.com
Part of the problem with the color is that the 1D does NOT embed the correct color-space ID when you're using the Adobe RGB setting. (I think it's color-matrix 4.) I had to modify my workflow to assign the proper Adobe RGB color-space once I pulled in a file in Photoshop, by defining an action that prepped the file before editing.
Then I switched to using Photo Mechanic for my preliminary file transfer from the chip to the Mac, and now I have PM do the initial color-space assignment.
The next thing I did to get better color out of the 1D, was to switch to using a different tone-curve.
I used the last curve mentioned on the following site:
http://home.earthlink.net/~ladlueck/Tone%20Curves.htm
That curve opened up the shadow detail and results in an image that I seldom need to tweak.
Making sure the white-balance is correct for the shooting conditions is the final important step. |
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Matthew Rosenberg, Photographer
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Croydon | PA | United States | Posted: 11:44 PM on 03.29.05 |
| ->> SInce we are talking about tone curves. Do tone curves affect somebody who is using a raw workflow? I have downloaded custom curves but from my reading of a few websites, the only thing they would change would be the LCD preview and histogram on the camera? These curves are ignored by PS CS. |
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Brian Jackson, Photographer, Photo Editor
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South San Francisco | CA | USA | Posted: 12:21 AM on 03.30.05 |
->> Have your shooter switch to a more standard color mode setting (sRBG) matrix 1,2,3 or 5. Images will clear up and look good.
I also found the colors more pleasing on cloudy WB when shooting outside during the day with the 1D.
Here's my take on the colorspace issue and event photography:
The RBG, custom curves and photoshop stuff is great, but for 12,000 images? Easier to just shoot it right the first time. These images are going to be prints, sRBG is what's neeed. RGB requires too much work for 12,000 images. If these shots were going to all be published and had to go through CMYK separation....RGB would be good, but these are going to be sent to a photo lab.
Workflow is a tad different when dealing with thousands of images and you need to USE thousands of images as opposed to 10-20 out of those thousands.
SI is great, but completly different than event photogrpahy. There was an article recently about their workflow at the SuperBowl. They shot what 20,000 images? How many did they use in the magazine from the SuperBowl? 15-30? Let's say they used 30 pictures out of those 20,000 taken, that's 0.15% of the images they shot. Shoot anyway you want, you're not prepping that many images.
When you care about 80-90% of those images, if you capture them the way you're going to end up using them and you want to do it in the least amount of work...you're better off shooting differently.
Event photography is about speed. You've got to get through hundreds of images in minutes and have those ready for viewing for clients to purchase.
good luck,
brian |
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Michael Springfield, Photographer
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Smyrna (Atlanta) | GA | USA | Posted: 6:40 AM on 03.30.05 |
->> Just a couple of questions. Does this happen with all lenses or just one? Does he have any kind of filter on the lens? It looks to me like a polarizing or haze filter is in the mix.
Michael |
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Robert G. Stevens, Photographer
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Halifax | NS | Canada | Posted: 9:05 AM on 03.30.05 |
->> Matthew:
All the third party converters seem to ignore in camera settings when converting the raw files. The Canon FVU will handle it properly.
Jon:
Email me and I will send you a couple tone curve files to try.
Regards,
Robert |
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Robert G. Stevens, Photographer
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Matthew Rosenberg, Photographer
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Croydon | PA | United States | Posted: 9:49 AM on 03.30.05 |
->> Thanks Robert,
I had suspected that but never went through the motions to confirm it. |
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Greg Ferguson, Photographer
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Scottsdale | Az | USA | Posted: 10:55 AM on 03.30.05 |
->> Regarding shooting in sRGB only:
It's important to remember that the sRGB colorspace is smaller than Adobe's RGB color-space and you can't recover the colors that are lost after that image is on the card.
Yes, you might speed up your workflow if you're *always* going to output to devices that are within that sRGB color space - such as for use on the web or a lot of ink-jets, however if you get a shot that you want to turn into fine art or down the road want to get the full range of colors, you'll have hosed yourself.
Before I switched to Photo Mechanic, dealing with the 1D mis-labeling the Adobe RGB space was a pain, but Photo Mechanic now fixes the 1D's problem as the images are downloaded to the disk.
Regarding shooting in RAW:
RAW contains the full data captured by the sensor and color-balance or color-space or contrast isn't applied.
I usually shoot jpeg, and set my color-balance to match the light, and leave my color-space alone. For normal things I find that is a good balance of filesize and speed in processing. For images I want to look their best then I'll use RAW.
Each one of the color-space and file-format choices has a plus and minus. You have to know how they affect your image and workflow so you can make an informed decision when shooting. |
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Brian Jackson, Photographer, Photo Editor
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South San Francisco | CA | USA | Posted: 6:07 PM on 03.30.05 |
->> Low end inkjets? I don't think I've even print to a low end inkjet. All of my prints come off of high end Fuji Frontier and Durst Theta systems.
Nearly every commercial photo lab wants photos in sRGB. I mostly do event work, which means prints, so I shoot in sRGB.
Also, I've never had any complaints from editorial clients or printers (for flyers/postcards etc after conversion to CMYK) about the color. In fact several have raved about the color and how good it looks. Must be Linux :-D
Eash person needs to figure out for themselves what works best.
good luck,
brian |
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Pablo Galvez, Photographer
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Calgary | AB | CANADA | Posted: 8:08 PM on 03.30.05 |
->> Jon,
You will find a combination of these solutions will clear up this shooter's Canon 1D "muddy green" issues.
1. Download the tone curve and install it on that camera to make the colours right. If you need the tone curve, email me and I will email it to you.
2. For youth sporting events, I always shoot in Matrix 1 - Matrix 4 (Adobe 1998) is great for most work but for quick proofing for your customers, you need to be shooting in sRGB otherwise the colours look "washed out" in previews.
3. Was the photographer using a lens hood? That could be another reason for the lack of contrast in the sample images.
I'm pretty confident these will clear up the issues based on those sample images.
-Pablo |
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