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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Wireimage Shooting
Leslie Billman, Photographer
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Annapolis | Md | USA | Posted: 7:57 PM on 02.11.05 |
| ->> Question for Wireimage shooters: do you edit and upload throughout the event you're shooting, or do you wait till the event is over, and then upload? I've been doing the latter, for fear of missing good action while in the media room uploading; however, I think other WI shooters are beating me to the punch. It generally takes me awhile to settle into the workflow of reviewing and editing and then uploading; if I try to do that during an event (like on breaks in the action) I get all bogged down. Am I normal, or are the folks who breeze into the media center and upload 50 perfect images the normal ones? |
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Alan S. Rubin, Photographer
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Charleston | SC | USA | Posted: 8:32 PM on 02.11.05 |
->> Leslie,
I have sent many of photos to wireimage over the past years, but I do NOT edit until event is over, as I might be in the right place at the right time. I will upload after I review and edit at office/home after about 1-2 hours.
good luck |
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Leslie Billman, Photographer
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Annapolis | Md | USA | Posted: 8:46 PM on 02.11.05 |
| ->> thanks Alan. Glad to know there are other compulsives out there. The next question is: how long do you spend sorting, editing and uploading? The process often takes me several hours,which often takes into the wee hours of the morning,depending on when the event ends. I starting to think I'm taking it all too seriously, being a perfectionist about every shot I decide to upload. Am I nuts? |
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Gary Solomons, Photographer
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Collierville | TN | USA | Posted: 9:52 PM on 02.11.05 |
| ->> I have not shot for WI but for another online wire service. Leslie...I was just like you.....it would be 3:00am and I would still be working images trying to make them as perfect as I could. Your not alone on this. |
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Clark Brooks, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 9:55 PM on 02.11.05 |
| ->> Leslie: I don't shoot for WI - and I don't think you are nuts. I think you'll be in this business - if you stay concerned about quality - for a very, very long time. |
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Caleb Simpson, Photographer, Assistant
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Dallas | TX | USA | Posted: 10:57 PM on 02.11.05 |
| ->> Leslie, I don't submitt to WireImage but I do submitt to Icon. It takes me about 1 to 1.5hrs to edit and upload 20 or so images. (a little less if I am submitting live and only send about 6) If you don't have Photo Meachinc you need to get it. It will really speed up your workflow and if you have it learn to use it to it's fullest extent. I always send after the game. Use PhotoMech to put in a generic caption with the essentials such as location, date, time teams playing and who won the game. The tail end of all my captions are thew exact same. |
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Alan S. Rubin, Photographer
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Charleston | SC | USA | Posted: 5:38 AM on 02.12.05 |
->> Leslie,
I see that you shoot tennis. In Charleston, the Family Cup is played and I have been shooting for the past 8-10 years. I have only used WI for the past 2 years. If you use PS you can put in generic captions in the "save" and just add a few other words..players name..etc. to all captions that you send. It does take about 2-2.5 hrs to compose, caption, upload photos. |
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Leslie Billman, Photographer
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Annapolis | Md | USA | Posted: 8:05 AM on 02.12.05 |
->> Whew. It's sounding like I'm not insane after all. My husband always wants to come along on shooting trips, and while I'd love to have him, I always scare him off with stories of staying up till 3 a.m. working the images. I DO use photomechanic, and batch-caption as Caleb suggested but do my editing in Photoshop - have just started batch editing, which helps, but I'm not satisfied even with THAT, and go in and then tweak each image individually. The other thing is that I insist on shooting in RAW, which builds in an extra step for converting everything to JPEG for uploading. Is that dumb? Compulsive control freak that I am, I LOVE the enhanced editing opportunities for perfection that RAW builds in...
It's pretty hard to be me, but it's sounding like it's pretty hard to be any one of us, which is comforting... |
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Frank Casimiro, Photographer
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Sugar Land (Houston Area) | TX | USA | Posted: 9:43 AM on 02.12.05 |
->> Leslie
You being a WI shooter you should have some idea how fast your images are being looked at and downloaded by clients since WI has this feature on the web site for it's photographers.
In my past experience I have found that for the most part my tennis images were not being used as soon as posted. I've shot several tennis tournaments. The first few I shot in JPG. I processed them quickly including captioning. But for over the past year I have been shooting exclusively in raw mode and like you I endure the added step.
All the tournaments I shoot are local. Though I do take my laptop to the event, I do most my color correction and processing at home on my CRT monitor.
I like you am a perfectionist on my imagery. The wire service I now submit to does not have the feature of being able to see movement of the photos. Perhaps if I were on a deadline I would be concerned with speed. The agency I now submit to I try to submit a tighter edit and only images that an editor might want to possibly use. I try to keep in mind that a portfolio of your work is only as good as your worst image.
If you feel you have a unique image, that would move, perhaps process that one and submit it then weed thru the others.
With a market already so saturated with images, I try to provide a quality product that is well captioned (including spell checking) thus hopefully building my reputation.
Frank |
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Eric Isaacs, Photographer
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Santa Barbara | CA | USA | Posted: 10:10 AM on 02.12.05 |
->> Hi Leslie,
one option that works for me is to perform a superfast sort and pick about ten images that stand out from the rest. Edit/caption those and transmit them. Then go back and begin the arduous task of perfecting the other 250 :-)
Hope this helps,
Eric |
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Delane B. Rouse, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Waldorf | MD | US | Posted: 4:43 PM on 02.12.05 |
->> Toy might not be nuts but the way you are processing your images for the intended usage is a huge waste of time.
I've heard of guys shooting their local NFL games and spending 13-14 hours workong once they finish the transmit. That's nuts. |
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Scott Kroll, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Fairfield | CT | USA | Posted: 5:17 PM on 02.12.05 |
->> I don't shoot for any wire service, maybe someday, but I am a photo editor that uses images from AP, Wire, Getty and Icon. I can tell you that I typically will get images from the AP first because they seem to be available the quickest, but they also seem to be the poorest quality images out there. So, if it is a major story I will replace the AP images with something better from the other wire services out there when they come out.
Needless to say, the quicker your images get out there the better, but quality can't be beat. I would have to agree with Eric and get 5-10 images in as quick as possible and then take the time on the rest. |
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Eric Neitzel, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Ventura | CA | USA | Posted: 6:18 PM on 02.12.05 |
->> For me it depends on the event...
At the Jackson trial we shoot him going in and then have 2 or 3 hours to sit around and wait...so I try to get my stuff uploaded during that period... |
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Leslie Billman, Photographer
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Annapolis | Md | USA | Posted: 7:06 PM on 02.12.05 |
->> Delane: how would you recommend cutting the editing time down? Are you advocating sacrificing quality, or just finding a faster way to get to it?
L. |
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Oscar Sosa, Photographer
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Jacksonville | FL | USA | Posted: 7:48 PM on 02.12.05 |
->> I shoot for the wires and individual pubs all the time, and it usually takes me 10 minutes to do a decent edit. I usually don't move more than 5-6 images, so you figure 3-5 minutes per file in photoshop and I'm usually finished within 30-45 minutes including edit, caption, file working, transmit time and check-in.
I do most of my editing and transmitting from home on my G4 desktop, so when I work with my powerbook I'm a bit slower, but not much. The only time I transmit from a remote site is when I'm on too tight a deadline to move images from my home office.
I rarely second-guess my first edit unless the editor requests more choices, but that's pretty rare.
Oscar |
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Warren Wimmer, Photographer
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Orland Park | Il | USA | Posted: 2:42 PM on 08.14.05 |
| ->> I have a problem with ALL of my IMAGES getting to the wire service with ALL THE SAME CAPTIONS. Its getting them nuts. I can pull and view each image up in PS or PM and the captions are ALL different just as I captioned them, any ideas what going on |
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Eric Isaacs, Photographer
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Santa Barbara | CA | USA | Posted: 3:17 PM on 08.14.05 |
->> Hey Warren,
What program are you using to caption? I shoot for FilmMagic, a sister company to WI and they have me using fotostation pro. I thought that was the standard for WI/FM.
E- |
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Steven E. Frischling, Photographer, Photo Editor
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New England | | USA | Posted: 3:17 PM on 08.14.05 |
->> Warren
Could you clairfy your problem?
You caption in PhotoMechanic or Photoshop and they FTP them. On arrival at the editors work station your captions are in the wrong files? They are missing? They are jumbled?
What is the issue you are having?
I have had my IPTC info erased for some reason, but am not sure you have clearly explain your issue. |
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Warren Wimmer, Photographer
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Orland Park | Il | USA | Posted: 3:32 PM on 08.14.05 |
->> using mac os x tiger, PS v8, photo mechanic latest version.
1. save a templet on hard drive with info venue, place date name ect.
2. created folder on HD to store all images with IPTC info which will be FTP to editors later.
3. open image in PM, LOAD the templete from the HD. Complet the caption AP style what where who and when. Apply stationary to selected. and save to the folder on the HD.
4. Open the next image in PM, hit the clear in the IPTC pad then LOAD the templete again and repete the process.
Like I said I can open each photo in PS under the File TAb then FILE INFO and on every image the Caption is correct.
then I open FETCH connect to server, create a folder for the event go to the folder on the HD open the folder Highlite each image and drag to the folder on the FTP and it sends just like it should.
The Editor Desk gets and opens and ALL THE CAPTIONS ARE THE SAME.
I am at wits end |
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Jay Westcott, Photographer
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Washington | DC | USA | Posted: 3:41 PM on 08.14.05 |
->> Warren,
When you select, "Apply Stationary to Selected," all the pictures that you have selected in the contact sheet will have that new IPTC info applied to it. I bet that all the photos have the same caption of the last photo you captioned. Instead of hitting apply to selection, open the individual IPTC info for each file (the "i" icon in the lower left of each thumbnail) after you have applied the template to all. Type the caption as you would, then hit "OK" and all should be well.
Jay |
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Mark Scheuern, Photographer
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Grand Blanc | MI | USA | Posted: 4:09 PM on 08.14.05 |
->> I submit to Icon and I also wait until the event is over and I can edit properly. I'm glad to see others feel the same. I'd rather spend a bit more time at it and feel like I'm doing a decent job. I definitely can relate to Leslie's approach.
Mark |
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Warren Wimmer, Photographer
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Orland Park | Il | USA | Posted: 4:34 PM on 08.14.05 |
->> Jay
I only have one image highlighted at a time. I thought that I had more than one highlighted at a time but I dont.
on the ITPC Stationary Pad to the right of the Caption box which is checked what is the (+ box for) and should that be checked. I have never checked it b-4
Thank you
Warren |
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Kevin M. Cox, Photographer, Assistant
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Round Rock (Austin) | TX | US | Posted: 5:45 PM on 08.14.05 |
->> If you have the little + box selected it will add the data to whatever if currently applied to the selected photo. Without the + box checked it will replace the data.
You would use the + box for example if you wanted to add additional keywords (or more details to a cutline) to a photo without replacing the keywords/caption already present in the IPTC data. |
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Andy Mead, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 9:51 PM on 08.14.05 |
->> Warren,
I have had intermittent problems with WireImage and captions. I've had captions appear on the wrong images. I use PhotoShop 7.0 for captioning, and I've had no problems with caption jumbling with Icon SMI.
WireImage editors do do some post-processing on the captions to make sure that images get assigned to the right account. It's possible that their software has some sort of bug in it. On the cases I've caught with the wrong captions, I've checked the images on my computer and everything is as it should be, so there's definitely something on their end. |
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Bob Levey, Photographer
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Richmond/Houston | TX | USA | Posted: 10:40 PM on 08.14.05 |
->> I was haveing same problem..my images would all be captioned on my end... Id U/L to the WireImage server.. and I would get an email saying.. "Hey, some of your images have NO captions" Id go back and look locally and they would be there.... They juse FotoStation on their end.. so I switched...Havent had any problems since!!! Go figure
Bob |
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Ron Scheffler, Photographer
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Hamilton (Toronto area) | Ontario | Canada | Posted: 11:02 PM on 08.14.05 |
->> Hi Leslie,
Getting back to your question for Delane. I can't answer that one for him, but my opinion would be to not kill yourself doing a lot of PS work on individual images. What you want to do is to get the technical quality of your images as good as possible in the camera, then take the raw photos and tweak them as needed. I'm not sure how you work with raw images, but if you can work with a raw converter that allows you to view all the selected images as a contact sheet and apply general corrections to more than one image at a time, then go back to a few images that need some individual adjustments, you will be able to produce quality images without the need to mess around with them one by one in PS. Just batch process the images with their individual adjustments applied and you should be fine (though some raw converters do not carry over IPTC info, so save your captioning for the end).
Here's my take on why it's a waste of your time to spend so much effort tweaking images: No matter what you do in post production, chances are that every single publication to use a given image of yours will have their own specific publishing requirements for the presses, etc. Therefore, you can't possibly satisfly every one of their technical requirements. After all, they all have staff that are responsible for making those adjustments. So long as you get an image in the ballpark, any editor should be able to recognize its technical potential and the prepress department will realize its potential. The real danger in applying a lot of PS adjustments to images you submit is that you may do more damage to the image than you realize. I am not familiar with your workflow, or your level of expertise with PS, so can't make specific comments, but based on my experiences while working in prepress for a newspaper, I have too often come across images that have been poorly Photoshopped. Some examples are poor burning/dodging; poor feathering of selected areas to be adjusted - sometimes too much feathering, sometimes none at all; poor color correction (maybe due to improper color management, display set-up or calibration); sharpening - if you sharpen an image, you may inadvertently damage the file to the point where prepress can't make all of the necessary adjustments, otherwise the file will look bad. Depending on how the image will be printed, sometimes the necessary prepress adjustments can be very severe and I think many photographers are not aware of this. Other problems can include making images too contrasty and pushing saturated colors out of gamut.
I can definitely understand the desire to make your images look their absolute best. Believe me, I'm as much of a perfectionist as you seem to be. I also cover my fair share of sporting events, some for deadline purposes. I've since realized that it really is in my best interest as a photographer to save myself a lot of unnecessary work, and therefore as much time as possible, in post. As photographers working in a news/editorial environment, it's our responsibility to create the best possible images in terms of content. But I'd say leave it at that. Let prepress worry about the technical details. If you must file images on deadline, send a handful of the best. If there isn't enough time, don't even edit them in PS. If you can produce decent jpegs in the camera (which you should be able to do), that will be good enough. Just caption and transmit. Remember that whoever decides to publish your images will have a prepress department to (hopefully) make the necessary adjustments.
If you haven't already read Reed Hoffmann's comments in past issues of the magazine, I think they could offer some relevance to your questions:
http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/1081
http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/1182 |
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Mike Dunphy, Photographer
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Toronto | ON | Canada | Posted: 7:27 AM on 08.15.05 |
->> Leslie:
I shot NFL for Wire Image last year beside awesome shooters like Rick Stewart (Getty), Craig Melvin (US PressWire)and the great shooters from AP. Our assignment editor wanted 2-3 peak action images at half-time and approximately 10 peak action images within an hour after the game. I can't tell you how many times we were all in the media area editing when a big play happened. Like Ron eludes to above, try to set your camera up so that you only have to tweak your images before being sent. Batch caption the required information ahead of time and add the relevant photo info just before saving your images. If you have a great image that tells the story chances are somebody like ESPN.com or America Online will have that image up minutes after it's posted on the wire. If you wait to edit your images until you get home and don't send them in until after 3am, chances are that every newspaper deadline across the country has come and gone.
Good Luck
Mike |
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Ed Mulholland, Photographer
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Pompton Lakes | NJ | USA | Posted: 1:45 PM on 08.15.05 |
| ->> I shoot boxing for wireimage, and it really depends on the event. At a really big fight, I set up my captions in advance, and I'll shoot off a couple of action images immediately after and then send more later on in the evening for additional coverage of press conference, solo fighter shots, things like that. On smaller fights, I'll wait until I'm in a quiet place and work up my photos. This is based on what wireimage moves for me... |
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G. Newman Lowrance, Photographer
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Overland Park | KS | USA | Posted: 5:15 PM on 08.22.05 |
->> Warren,
We spoke about this a little at the Bears/Rams game 2 weeks ago. I told you it was on Wire's end and not a mistake by you. This is still true, but I haven't had a problem since I started telling them that the captions were "done using Photo Mechanic". It seems that every editor over there will use a different technique, and sometimes our captions are hidden if they don't know how we applied them. Why this is I'm not sure, but add that note when you send the email telling them you've uploaded images. I haven't had a problem since. Good luck! |
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Jay Gula, Photographer
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Thornhill (Toronto) | ON | Canada | Posted: 8:45 AM on 10.26.05 |
->> Changing the subject slightly, but still with Wireimage can anyone who has worked for Wireimage for at least one year give me an idea how long it takes from the time you get a "Verified" sale with Wireimage to the day you get a cheque in your hands.I'm going on 5 months and although I understand the process it seems like a long time.
Thanks,
Jay |
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Ed Mulholland, Photographer
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Pompton Lakes | NJ | USA | Posted: 9:20 AM on 10.26.05 |
| ->> In my experience, they are sending out checks every 3 months or so, but it also depends on when they get paid by the client. Some have a quick turnaround from usage to invoice to paid, others seem to drag their feet in paying...It really all seems to depend on who used the photo... |
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Michael Hickey, Photographer
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Kokomo | IN | United States | Posted: 10:25 AM on 10.26.05 |
->> Although I'm at the point where I get a decent check every month, I have found that once an image says it's "invoiced" you can usually expect to be paid in around three months for that image. Yes some clients pay faster than others and a lot depends on whether the client is a subcription client or one that buys images one at a time. I would say if they're NOT a subcription client and you are waiting for longer than six months on payment of an invoiced image you might want to give Marguerite a call and she will look into it.
Also be aware they normally monitor THIS forum, especially when there is a WireImage topic, FYI. |
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Thomas E. Witte, Photographer
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Cincinnati | OH | USA | Posted: 12:06 PM on 10.26.05 |
| ->> Anywhere from a month to a year. Heck, if I didn't go through proceedings to terminate my contract with them I'm willing to bet I still wouldn't be paid for most of the images that sold. The other fun thing is finding a photo of yours in print that doesn't register on your account, lord knows how many times that happens but collecting on that is a hoot. |
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Juliann Tallino, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | usa | Posted: 12:11 PM on 10.26.05 |
| ->> Are there any agencies that have a way for you to check what has been sold? Other than constantly calling? I've been waiting on one check for over 8 months from Icon. Are they all the same? |
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Michael Hickey, Photographer
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Kokomo | IN | United States | Posted: 12:44 PM on 10.26.05 |
->> Thomas,
There are reasons that an image can be used that doesn't show up in your account because clients can obtain images in different ways from WireImage, it's too bad you didn't have a good experience with them but they do a very good job of following up on downloads and sales based on my personal experience. The images in question, were they actually invoiced or did they just show as open?
I do know for a fact that with Getty you have NO idea what's going on with your sales until you receive a statement, how do you know everything is on the up and up there? These kind of inflammatory statements can be thrown out about anyone. |
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Thomas E. Witte, Photographer
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Cincinnati | OH | USA | Posted: 1:28 PM on 10.26.05 |
->> WTF? What inflammatory statement? Feeling a little defensive or something? Just because it doesn't fall in line with your lollipops and bunny rabbits experience with Wireimage doesn't mean it's not true. It's jackass one sided arguments that don't deal with both sides of the story that mislead people in the first place. I'm just telling it like it is. Don't like the negatives? T.S.
And honestly I'm pretty friggin sick of it. Too many people with not enough in depth knowledge throwing out misguided information is hindering anyone from learning anything off this site. You're going to turn it on Getty? Guess what dude, Newsport, Icon, Duomo, Polaris, Gamma, Corbis and all the other stock houses don't let you know what sold either. I've worked with all of them and none of them are perfect. At least with Getty I was able to in one month pass my entire year's total at Wireimage. I could care less who's looking at what photo and who downloaded it and actually that ability is a thorn in WI's side. Having that ability to watch them continually fail on key points to the contract is what ultimately gave me leverage to get out of it.
Don't let yourself be treated like a camera monkey. Have at least an inkling of pride in what you do and make sure that you aren't being bent over the table especially when you're shooting on spec.
Have fun with the site, I'm going to go see what Frakes is up to. |
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