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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Strange Situation Today (Pics)
Michael Jordan, Photographer
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West Palm Beach | FL | USA | Posted: 9:34 PM on 01.11.05 |
->> I was on my way to the beach to shoot some skim boarding when I noticed a plume of black smoke visible from my house out west. When I got closer I was forced to look across the airport to see the smoke and there it was Military Aircraft! What looked to be two Black hawk helicopters and one F-A18 Hornet, I could not believe my find. Right away a picture came to mind and in no time I had pulled a u-turn and was just where I wanted to be.
I had one problem, the whole scene! Here I was with a telephoto lens around my neck trying to take a picture of military aircraft at a commercial airport (now a problem after 9/11). So I tested my luck and rang the doorbell at the customs office where I had parked my truck. Through the doorbell/intercom I simply asked if I might be able to photograph the choppers and jet telling them I was a freelance photographer.... Silence.... A voice from the plastic box attached to the wall rang out "No problem we cant let you on the tarmac but you can shoot through the fence" wow I could have sworn I was going to be told to piss off!
Enter the pictures http://www.sportsshooter.com/mikej/wildfire
Although I was never able to get right where I wanted to be (The "No Stopping or Standing" signs scared me off) I did manage to get some shots I was happy with. After 20min's I was sure I was going to attract some attention to myself with the camera and sure enough I did; a cop who simply parked his car in front of me and stared me down until I left and I did after another 20 frames.
This is the best part! I took my material directly to the Palm Beach Post (a rather large newspaper here in Palm Beach). I was told at the front desk to proceed to the photo department (my first time "upstairs"). The editors must have been bored because they took the time to look through the shots I had taken. Although they did not seem to excited about my stuff this was a great opportunity to network as I was talking with two of the editors on duty! And I proceeded to sell myself, pass out business cards, shake hands and tell a joke or two about my name! I was told to come back anytime with shots and to stay in touch (very friendly people those Editors)!
I am stoked! Today was my 1hr in a PJ's shoes and man it was exciting!
Michael |
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David M. Russell, Photographer
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New York | NY | USA | Posted: 9:44 PM on 01.11.05 |
->> The best part of your post is your excitement!
Fun, isn't it? |
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Kyle Carter, Photographer
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Meridian | MS | USA | Posted: 10:27 PM on 01.11.05 |
->> M.J. (sorry, couldn't help it) I feel like a kid again reading your post. You are soothing with excitement. I'm got excited just reading it!
So how's FLA treating you??
KYle |
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Kevin Nibur, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Pullman | WA | USA | Posted: 10:50 PM on 01.11.05 |
->> Michael
It sounds like you had an exciting experience. Its those adrenaline moments that make this job so exciting.
I might be missing something here, but I'm not sure I see the connection between the aircraft and the fire. I also recomment being careful with the captions if you want to sell your images to the paper. The plane in the image is not an f/a-18 nor do any of the aircraft appear to be refueling as your captions stated. Maybe these images jsut don't show it, but be sure that caption info is correct or you'll immediately loose credibility with the paper.
As for the cop, if he didn't say anything to you, you were probably legal. Don't be afraid to introduce yourself and ask what, if any, restriction exist in the location you are shooting from. He may have even given you suggestions for other places you could safely shoot from (or he might have been a dick, but if you're going to leave anyway, you have nothing to loose by asking).
Great job pushing your images right away, though. Most people would wait until they saw a photo-less story in the paper the next day and then kick themselves for not doing what you did. |
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Michael Jordan, Photographer
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West Palm Beach | FL | USA | Posted: 11:02 PM on 01.11.05 |
->> Guys this was so exciting! The whole setting made me so nervous I was shaking in my shoes. But that turned to excitement when I was on my way up to the second floor to show the editors what I had captured. I will admit this was dumb luck to spot the two things in one day but how does a real PJ find the story if it's not sending smoke into the upper atmosphere?
FL is treating me pretty well I almost always have something to shoot down here weather that is kite surfing, Surfing, Cable park, skate park..... And the weather has been awesome low 80's this past week!
MJ (It might as well be my name it's what everyone calls me) |
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Marc F. Henning, Photographer
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Bentonville | AR | USA | Posted: 11:41 PM on 01.11.05 |
->> michael,
so why didn't you go around the airport and see what was up with the wild fire itself? don't take this critique the wrong way, but your photos are simply of military aircraft juxtaposed in front of a fire that is quite a ways off in the distance. next time follow your passion straight to the source of the news event and you may find much better photos in the end.
get close, get tight, get some people in your shots.
marc |
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Jeff Frings, Photographer
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Milwaukee | WI | USA | Posted: 12:37 AM on 01.12.05 |
->> I would agree that you need to at least make sure your captions are spelled properly, and accurately describe what's going on in the photos. It didn't appear that the aircraft were refueling, and if the fire was as far away as it looks, how could you know that it was "out of control"? I would disagree with Kevin though, it appears from what little of the plane is visible in the shots with the helicopters, that it is, in fact an F/A-18.
The smoke looks a lot like the plumes of smoke that appear at our airport about once a month or once every 2 months. They are training fires set for the airport firefighters to practice on. They produce a lot of black smoke and a lot of calls from concerned citizens. |
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Michael Jordan, Photographer
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West Palm Beach | FL | USA | Posted: 1:03 AM on 01.12.05 |
->> I realize that the pictures are not my best work and they were not shot from the location I would have liked them to have been. But it was the whole situation that got me excited.
There is no connection between the two subjects I was trying to get one story (The Military aircraft refueling at PBIA) and set another into the background (The Fire). Or you can look at it the other way around to show how the fire dominated the skyline over Palm Beach County even at PBIA where military aircraft are refueling.
None of the captions in my gallery were used on the original photos. The paper got "Military aircraft at PBIA while Wildfire burns in the background" on all the images. The fuel truck had just left from filling up the F/A-18. I understand what you are saying and I will fix my captions to represent what is being shown. The only reason I explained in my SS gallery that the aircraft were filling up is because there is no other reason they would be here, PBIA is one of the busiest airports for private aircraft (Rich people on Palm Beach Island) and it is a strange sight to see a fighter jet here. Sorry for the typos in the gallery I made that in about 6min's at a family dinner tonight. I will fix right now.
I did not pursue the big story for two reasons. One, it was way the hell out of my way for where I was going. And two, I have found that brush fires are very hard to cover unless you have a over look or a higher point in which to view the event and here in FL they almost always happen in very wooded areas that access is cut off to for obvious reasons. So most of the pictures that are published end up highlighting the affects the smoke has on daily life (The smoke from the fire shut down a school early today and that will probably make front page news tomorrow)
I would have loved to of got more of the F/A-18 in the shot but like I said between the cop and the obvious restrictions I stayed where I knew I was ok. I knew the fire was out of control because of the FM radio that was telling me that firefighters only had 40% of the fire under control at the time.
Michael |
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Scott Kroll, Photographer
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Fairfield | CT | USA | Posted: 8:01 AM on 01.12.05 |
->> Michael,
When you went into the Post did you just walk in with your camera or did you have a laptop to upload the images to? When the Editors looked at the shots, did they upload them to a computer?
Great Job.
Scott |
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Michael Jordan, Photographer
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West Palm Beach | FL | USA | Posted: 12:22 PM on 01.12.05 |
->> Scott,
Photo Mechanic saved the day! I shot everything in RAW and after I did so all I had to do was dump my CF card while I was on my way to the Palm Beach Post (5 minute drive from airport).
When I went upstairs I had my laptop in standby mode with Photo Mechanic open. Right after I introduced myself to the editor I opened the lid of the laptop the computer started in 2 seconds and all I had to do was show the editor how to scroll the pics with the keyboard.
Bam simple as that! He asked me to burn a CD for him and that was that. So damn simple!
Michael |
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Tom Fluegge, Photographer, Assistant
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Crystal Lake | IL | USA | Posted: 12:58 PM on 01.12.05 |
->> So if you burned a cd for them, did they use the pics? In your original post you mention they didn't seem too excited about the them, so I'm wondering why they were given a cd if they didn't plan on "using" them. Were you compensated for the pictures and did you retain your copyright?
Just curious,
Tom |
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Marc F. Henning, Photographer
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Bentonville | AR | USA | Posted: 1:21 PM on 01.12.05 |
->> ditto tom!
michael,
i hope you didn't give them all of your photos on cd without prior agreement on payment and copyright retention. as a stringer you should only submit the photo to be used with the assignment or spot news event you're shooting for said paper. NEVER give them all of your images unless they're prepared to compensate you for each photo. the usage of the photo should be limited to one time with further compensation for any additional usage.
having your work published is neat....the first time. but you should treat your work and its usage as a business from the get go.
marc |
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Larry Vaughn, Photographer
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Gainesville | FL | usa | Posted: 1:21 PM on 01.12.05 |
->> Regarding the brush fire, you could go there and contact the officer in charge or PIO, tell him who you are and what you want to do and then perhaps you might get some access you otherwise wouldn't. Or maybe not, but making those contacts help.
I have to agree that the shots of the copters don't stand by themselves and don't have anything to do with the brush fires.
Also, you could assume the role of a reporter in this situation and learn more, make your photos more newsworthy and increase the chances of getting them published. You also get more respect from word people when you prove to them that you can write and sometimes doors of opportunity are opened that way.
I did similar things while in school and while working for various papers and it helped me get respect, get published and get money.
Good effort, however. If you have enough chutzpah to do what you did and keep doing it while learning from others you will be successful. |
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Larry Vaughn, Photographer
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Gainesville | FL | usa | Posted: 1:29 PM on 01.12.05 |
->> I would also suggest that you follow Mark's advice. Don't sign any work for hire agreement with anyone. There are many media outlets in your area and you don't want to give up anything just for the sake of getting published.
Also, keep in mind that some organizations and editors don't like their stringers working for anyone else. When you submit something, they might casually ask you who else you work for. Consider that information something you should keep to yourself.
Naturally you don't want to offer an "exclusive" to someone if that isn't true, but since most of the time they won't offer you anything extra to limit your sales, you shouldn't do it unless you have a good reason to.
I invite comments about this. |
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Kevin Nibur, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Pullman | WA | USA | Posted: 1:37 PM on 01.12.05 |
| ->> Sorry about my not an f18 comment - I hadn't noticed it there behind the helis. I though you were talking about the jet in the other pictures. |
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Michael Jordan, Photographer
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West Palm Beach | FL | USA | Posted: 1:50 PM on 01.12.05 |
->> Tom and Mark,
Yes I covered my bases. To keep that last post shot I did not go into detail about the contract. I signed a basic freelance contract with them. I made sure I kept my Copyright. Giving away my work or my copyright is the last thing I would ever consider, I am probably one of a very few my age that understands the seriousness of this subject and if you follow my last few post on other threads you will notice I don’t take it lightly.
I don’t have the contract sitting in front of me right now but I think I get $300 for the cover and between $40 and $80 depending on how large they run it and if it's color or BW. The contract is very fair, everything is one time use, and I keep my copyright so on and so forth.
I did give them the best shots from the shoot (33). And if they use them I will be compensated if they don’t they said they would mail me the CD back simple as that. I am not concerned about them trying to use my images without permission.
When I said they were not "excited" I mean they were not jumping up and down (not sure if they ever do that) but they were still interested in having the images (I would imagine that would be in case the staffers did not get any thing better).
I would have loved to spoke with one of the military guys but they were busy and I could not seem to get there attention. Only the cop would pay me any attention and god know I did not want his!
Michael |
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Sam Adams, Photographer, Student/Intern
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Albuquerque | NM | USA | Posted: 6:44 PM on 01.12.05 |
| ->> reminds me of the first time i went to a fire....i just started mentoring with the albuquerque tribune and i saw smoke so i went over and was able to get really close and talk to all the other photojournalist from the other papers..so i got to meet them and talk to them...it was great i loved every second of it..and reading your post reminds me of it....its soo fun huh..and addicting |
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Tom Fluegge, Photographer, Assistant
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Crystal Lake | IL | USA | Posted: 8:29 PM on 01.12.05 |
->> Thanks for clarifying...and congrats on some successful networking!
Tom |
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DJ Werner, Photographer
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Beaufort | NC | USA | Posted: 10:16 AM on 01.13.05 |
->> in my photojournalistic mind when I read this
"->> I was on my way to the beach to shoot some skim boarding when I noticed a plume of black smoke visible from my house out west. When I got closer I was forced to look across the airport to see the smoke and there it was Military Aircraft!"
I thought they crashed!!!
then it would have been a big deal!
they didn't get excited because this was not anything big.
Military aircraft stop at commerical airports all the time-
hate to say this Michael- but if I brought those images back my boss would have tossed me out the door....
and we didn't cover brush fires either, unless it was hudge or buring down houses
if this was a crash site - they wouldn't have given you such easy access-
love your excitment- stay with it- you are on the right track! |
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Michael Jordan, Photographer
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West Palm Beach | FL | USA | Posted: 5:42 PM on 01.13.05 |
->> "hate to say this Michael- but if I brought those images back my boss would have tossed me out the door...."
Ouch! I knew they were not that good but damn haha. Ohh well I did not start a public thread to only hear what I wanted to hear.
Party on,
Michael |
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Justin Sullivan, Photographer
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San Francisco | CA | | Posted: 6:03 PM on 01.13.05 |
| ->> I was at the airport in Minneapolis yesterday and I saw a big ass military plane, three of them to be exact, rolling down the runway in the snow. Unfortunately, I had to rush to my connecting flight and didn't take a picture. |
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DJ Werner, Photographer
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Beaufort | NC | USA | Posted: 10:27 PM on 01.13.05 |
->> Michael--
I think you missed the point-
I'm sorry if I was not clear to you-
it is not about the images themselves-per say
*it is the lack of "news value" associated with them-
the managing editor would bark : whats the value in this ?whats the story?
why is this important-?
why would anybody care or read this?
why would they drop 50 cents in the box to read about this...
the bean counters care about selling copies of the paper- so they can up the advertising rates
Again, I like your enthusiasm, Michael.
Remember I am speaking from a news point of view-
you have to think of the editors viewpoint
he wants to sell papers!
a plane crash sells papers, a major fire sells papers...
an explosion sells lots of papers, as does the aftermath...
what is the key point
what is important
why am I reading this story
why is this story important
what is going on
who is involved
D |
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Tom Fluegge, Photographer, Assistant
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Crystal Lake | IL | USA | Posted: 10:46 PM on 01.13.05 |
->> i'd drop a lot more than $0.50 for a days worth of news that didn't involve some sort of tragedy.
-tom |
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DJ Werner, Photographer
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Beaufort | NC | USA | Posted: 6:10 AM on 01.14.05 |
| ->> yep me too...and I wish more of my assignments were of pretty things perhaps sailboats or a kid flying a kite at the beach....but the powers that be -don't seem to think that way...D |
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chris curry, Photographer
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Peoria | IL | usa | Posted: 10:34 AM on 01.14.05 |
->> Just my take on the situation:
Even if haven't, act like you have been in a newspaper before. It seems that you've put the photo editors at the Palm Beach Post on such a high level that in turn you've put yourself down a peg or two in their eyes.
You make your walk to the photo department sound like you were just called up to the big leauges after playing double-A ball in the minors for half a career.
The most important thing to remember is to brim with confidence. Those editors may not remember your pictures but they will remember your personality. Are you someone they would want to work with in the future?
The way you carry yourself will determine that.
And the same thing goes for assignments as well. I have found that if you look like you know what you're doing, even if you don't, the better access you will get.
Confidence is the main ingredient for all things whether you are on an assignment or trying to pitch a story to the editors.
Now, there's a fine line between beaming with confidence and cockiness, and you have to remember that no one but you is going to find that line.
Next time you go in there you should look comfortable to be there, say as little as you can and not take a tally on the number of jokes you can make about your name.
Sometimes I sell myself short as well so it's not like I'm the authority on what your game face should be. But it's good advice, none the less, passed down to me from someone that I respect.
Good luck out there,
chris curry |
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