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Spelling and grammar do count
Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
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San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 5:16 PM on 10.19.04 |
->> If your ears are burning, it's because I am talking about you.
Photography is not a refuge for bad spellers. There are a lot of potential employers on this board and messages containing poor spelling and grammar serve to lessen the chances of getting hired by any of them.
Things to watch out for:
There (or their) instead of they're
Your instead of you're
It's instead of its
If you think that I'm being picky, you're correct. Journalism is a detail-based profession. In some cases, your postings here may be your only shot at creating a first impression.
--Mark |
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Jason Grow, Photographer
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Gloucester | MA | USA | Posted: 5:31 PM on 10.19.04 |
->> Hey Mark.... Don't loose your cool -- even you don't spell "works" correctly.
I use this rule of thumb for easily remembering it's or its: it's its if it's possessive and it's it's if it's a contraction...
jg |
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Jerry Laizure, Photographer, Assistant
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Norman | OK | USA | Posted: 5:34 PM on 10.19.04 |
->> Hey Jason
It's don't LOSE your cool |
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Bruce Twitchell, Photographer, Student/Intern
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Lewiston | ID | USA | Posted: 5:36 PM on 10.19.04 |
->> Loose= not tight
Lose= to not win
I remember this by thinking I want less losing, ans since there is only one 'o' in it, and I want less losing, less o's are better.
You can come up with your own on loose.
This is the number one misspelled on this site.
Loose- not tight
Lose- to not win |
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Bruce Twitchell, Photographer, Student/Intern
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Lewiston | ID | USA | Posted: 5:37 PM on 10.19.04 |
| ->> whoops- and (not ans) |
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Jason Grow, Photographer
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Gloucester | MA | USA | Posted: 5:40 PM on 10.19.04 |
| ->> GERRY -- HELP MEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!! |
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Caleb Simpson, Photographer, Assistant
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Dallas | Texas | USA | Posted: 5:44 PM on 10.19.04 |
->> Just remember this little lyric.
If you want it to be a contraction it's I T APOSTROPHY S. If you want it to be possessive, it's just I T S.
Courtesty of Strog Bad from http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail.html |
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G.J. McCarthy, Photographer
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Columbia | MO | USA | Posted: 5:46 PM on 10.19.04 |
->> Sorry Jason ...
its to late fore me too do anything ...
- h - |
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Dave Amorde, Photographer
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Lake Forest | CA | USA | Posted: 5:54 PM on 10.19.04 |
->> To help you communicate more effectively...
The Rules of Grammar
1. Verbs has to agree with their subjects.
2. Prepositions are not words to end sentences with.
3. And don't start a sentence with a conjunction.
4. It is wrong to ever split an infinitive.
5. Avoid clichés like the plague. (They're old hat.)
6. Also, always avoid annoying alliteration.
7. Also too, never, ever use repetitive redundancies.
8. Be more or less specific.
9. Parenthetical remarks (however relevant) are (usually) unnecessary.
10. No sentence fragments.
11. Contractions aren't necessary and shouldn't be used.
12. Foreign words and phrases are not apropos.
13. Do not be redundant; do not use more words than unnecessary; it is
highly superfluous.
14. One should never generalize.
15. Comparisons are as bad as clichés.
16. Do not use no double negatives.
17. Eschew ampersands & abbreviations, etc.
18. One word sentences? Eliminate.
19. Analogies in writing are like feathers on a snake.
20. The passive voice is to be avoided.
21. Eliminate commas, that are, not necessary. Parenthetical words
(however)
should be enclosed in commas.
22. Never use a big word when a diminutive one will suffice.
23. Kill all exclamation points!!!
24. Use words correctly, irregardless of how others use them.
25. Profanity is for assholes.
26. Understatement is always the absolute best way to put forth earth
shattering ideas.
27. Use the apostrophe in it's proper place and omit it when its not
needed.
28. Eliminate quotations. As Ralph Waldo Emerson said, "I hate
quotations. Tell me what you know."
29. If you've heard it once, you've heard it a thousand times: Resist
hyperbole; not one writer in a million can use it effectively.
30. Puns are for children, not groan readers.
31. Go around the barn at high noon to avoid colloquialisms.
32. Even if a mixed metaphor sings, it should be derailed.
33. Who needs rhetorical questions?
34. Exaggeration is a billion times worse than understatement.
And finally:
35. Proof read carefully to see if you any words out. |
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Andy Mead, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 6:05 PM on 10.19.04 |
| ->> One does well by doing good. |
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Jim Owens, Photographer
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Cincinnati | OH | usa | Posted: 6:09 PM on 10.19.04 |
->> Ok Dave, I'll give you a "funny" rating on your post for sheer effort.
: )
There's a gentleman in my neighborhood that is a C.P.A.
He has a homemade sign out every year starting Jan 1 that says :
"Tax Prepartion here"
Do you think I would take my tax forms to him ?
I don't think so. |
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Tony Donaldson, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 6:36 PM on 10.19.04 |
->> "Never use a preposition to end a sentence with." ;-)
For apostrophe help, look here:
http://www.angryflower.com/aposter3.jpg
Apostrophe misuse is one of my biggest gripes. There's no excuse for it, we blame it on the internet, but poor grammar is poor grammar. I agree with Mark that the journalism business is one of details.
-TD |
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Marc F. Henning, Photographer
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Bentonville | AR | USA | Posted: 6:45 PM on 10.19.04 |
->> maybe the message board form could use a spell check feature. (:
marc |
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Michael Granse, Photographer
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 6:59 PM on 10.19.04 |
| ->> My favorite one EVER was the "game winning s--t" cutline from a couple of months ago (Olympic basketball). That STILL makes me laugh! |
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Joe Nicola, Photographer
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Fort Worth | TX | USA | Posted: 7:41 PM on 10.19.04 |
->> Dave,
Rules 2 and 3 are outdated. A preposition is a word you can end a sentence with. Recall the famous Winston Churchill: "This is something, up with which I will not put." (To avoid ending the sentence in a preposition.)
The other, "Don't start a sentence with a conjunction" is probably convention, but it can used quite effectively to convey meaning.
And that's the name of that tune.
See?
:o)
Seriously though.
Here is another that I see regularly ON THIS BOARD:
Definately is correctly spelled as "Definitely."
Arrrrgh! |
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D. Ross Cameron, Photographer
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Oakland | CA | USA | Posted: 7:50 PM on 10.19.04 |
->> I applaud Mark's thought, but personally have given up on trying to goad our members toward the correct use of the King's English.
The solecisms that present themselves daily on this board have forced me to stay my hand and murmur, "I'm sure that what he *meant* to say was..."
Snottily,
DRC |
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Dave Amorde, Photographer
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Lake Forest | CA | USA | Posted: 10:27 PM on 10.19.04 |
| ->> Joe, that list is condensed from the original 50 rules given to me by my 7th grade English teacher in 1971. Outdated, it just may be. A point well made? I do believe so, my young apprentice. May The Force be with you. |
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wally raynes, Photographer
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Donsieders | Germany | | Posted: 11:16 PM on 10.19.04 |
->> The European Commission has just announced an agreement this morning whereby English will be the official language of the European Community rather than German, which was the other possibility.
As part of the negotiations, Her Majesty's Goverment conceeded that English spelling had some room for improvement and accepted a 5 year phase-in plan that would be known as EuroEnglish.
In the first year, "s" will replace the soft "c". Sertainly, this will make the sivil servants jump with joy. The hard "c" will be dropped in favor of the
"k". This should klear up konfusion and keyboards kan have 1 less letter.
There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year, when the troublesome "ph" will be replaced with the "f". This will make words like "fotograf" 20% shorter.
In the 3rd year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible. Goverments will enkorage the removal of double letter, which have always ben a deterent
to akurate speling. Also, al wil agre that the horible mes of the silent "e"s in the language is disgraceful, and they should go away.
By the 4th yar, peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing "th" with "z" and "w" with "v". During ze fifz year, ze unesesary "o" kan be droped from vords kontaining "ou" and similar changes vud of kors be aplid to
ozer kombinations of leters.
After zis fifz yer, ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl. Zer vil be no mor trubls or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi tu understand ech ozer.
ZE DREM VIL FINALI KUM TRU! |
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Sandy Huffaker, Photographer
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San Diego | CA | USA | Posted: 12:34 AM on 10.20.04 |
->> Wally,
Well done!! I'm still laughing!! |
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Darron Spohn, Photographer
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Santa Clara | CA | USA | Posted: 1:18 AM on 10.20.04 |
| ->> If spelling and grammar are to count, then so should AP Style. While Wally's post was hilarious, it violated AP Style in at least a half dozen instances, thus lowering his grade from an "A" to a "C." |
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Tony Donaldson, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 1:19 AM on 10.20.04 |
| ->> You guys really rock sometimes. Laughter AND a good lesson in grammar here. THIS is a good use for the forum. ;-) |
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Jason Grow, Photographer
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Gloucester | MA | USA | Posted: 6:30 AM on 10.20.04 |
->> I gave Mark a bit of a nudge in the ribs at the start of this thread, but he's dead right on the issue. Photographers have long had an uphill battle in the newsroom and by extension out in the field because many people view us as opey-dopey lunkheads who can't string three words together to save our lives. The only way to combat this perception is to prove the stereotype isn't accurate, and we do that by showing folks we have more than a basic grasp of our language. Plus, it shows a certain level of courtesy to your fellow community members. Everyone has to approve their own message before it hits the list -- this is a great time to actually read what your fingers have typed and see if it matches what was in your head when you started.
And for those linguistic geeks out there, I highly recommend a book called: Eats, Shoots and Leaves. A very funny book on punctuation -- Yes, I read books on punctuation, doesn't everyone?
jg |
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Jim Owens, Photographer
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Cincinnati | OH | usa | Posted: 7:08 AM on 10.20.04 |
->> One of my sons is a freshman away at college. One of his courses is a creative writing class. To make a long story short, his e mails home have improved dramatically regarding spelling, grammar, and punctuation.
That alone makes me glad I signed the student loan.
I'd also like to go up there and shake hands with the professor.
I'm guessing at least one of his assignments was returned to him with a "This isn't going to cut it in my class" message across the top of the page. |
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Darrell Scattergood, Photographer
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Mountlake Terrace | WA | USA | Posted: 8:26 AM on 10.20.04 |
| ->> is lens spelled with an extra e anyplace? ie lense? |
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Allen Lester, Photographer
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Norfolk | VA | USA | Posted: 8:29 AM on 10.20.04 |
->> A very good overview of AP style can be found on the Utah State University Website and it addresses many of the English language peculiarities noted in this thread.
http://www.usu.edu/communic/faculty/sweeney/ap.htm
Allen |
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G.J. McCarthy, Photographer
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Columbia | MO | USA | Posted: 8:53 AM on 10.20.04 |
->> Carrying on the "seriously humorous" and informative tone of this thread ...
For those of you looking for a fun way to bone-up on grammar, I highly recommend "The Elements of Style" by William Strunk, Jr. and E.B. White.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/020530902X/qid=1098276514/sr=2-1/ref...
In its fourth edition, the book is a quick, fairly entertaining read that covers all the basics and slip-ups in modern English grammar.
Along with copious amounts of coffee and nicotine gum, this book saved my posterior in college. Word.
Tootles,
- g - |
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christopher koutsis, Photographer
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huntington | ny | USA | Posted: 9:58 AM on 10.20.04 |
| ->> IT'Strue,iagreethatspellingiseverything!!! butdoithinkitshouldoffendanyoneifTHEIRspellingiswrong...nope! |
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Dave Amorde, Photographer
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Lake Forest | CA | USA | Posted: 12:39 PM on 10.20.04 |
->> Gerry, "The Elements Of Style" was required reading at my college. Another required text, but one more serious, is "The Art of Styling Sentences: 20 Patterns for Success" by Waddell, Esch, and Walker.
Mi kup runeth ovr.
Write On, Brotha! |
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Leslie Billman, Photographer
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Annapolis | Md | USA | Posted: 7:02 PM on 10.20.04 |
->> Jason: I applaud your recommendation for the reading of Eats, Shoots, and Leaves. My mother was a writer, and I grew up sighing impatiently as she slashed my homework assignments with indecipherable editorial symbols. I hated it, hated it, hated it when I was a kid, but I gotta tell you, I can diagram a sentence and am instinctively alert to error. No offense (and I mean this in the kindest possible way, since you are an Eats, Shoots, and Leaves fan) but I think you had a grammatical error in your post. Specifically, you said "Everyone has to approve THEIR own message...". Shouldn't that be "his/her own message"?
Sorry about all of this; I can't help myself. A "stickler" from birth....
In any event, I agree that our written words, despite our creed to express ourselves visually, say TONS about us, and we should make an effort to be articulate and precise (and correct) in our grammatical expression.
Oh, god. I've now come off as a deplorable, condescending, and imperious Awful Person. I ain't, really, I ain't. Amazing how Mom's influence carries on, isn't it? Must've been in the toilet training...
so sorry.... |
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Scott A. Schneider, Photographer
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Minneapolis | MN | USA | Posted: 7:27 PM on 10.20.04 |
| ->> In addition to "The Elements of Style," I highly recommend "The Greg Reference Manual," by William A. Sabin. It's a great resource for us grammar and style-challenged folks. |
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Tony Donaldson, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 7:37 PM on 10.20.04 |
->> Leslie,
Use of "their" in place of "his/her" has become more widely used. In our increasingly oversensitive, politically correct society it has gained popularity. I'm not a fan of being PC, but do appreciate that the use of "their" is less cumbersome and easier to read. |
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George Olivar, Photographer
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Highland Park | NJ | USA | Posted: 1:59 AM on 10.21.04 |
->> I think using "his/her" instead of "their" has more to do with subjective-possessive agreement than with being p.c. "Everyone" is always a singular indefinite pronoun.
I'm glad Mark started this thread. Like writers, photographers are communicators, so it stands to reason that we are expected to have command of our respective languages. |
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Kevin Coughlin, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Freeport | NY | U.S.A. | Posted: 3:24 AM on 10.21.04 |
->> I must say that I agree whole-heartedly that spelling DOES count. While I am not the best speller myself, I do strive for accuracy as does any JOURNALIST worth his or her salt. Keep in mind that we are JOURNALISTS first. (even sports photographers!)
Recently, I had to suspend ONE photographer from my agency as he did not care to make any effort writing his captions. Although his visual work is brilliant, the other half of the brain was too lazy and just ASSUMED the editor (i.e. me) can fill in the blanks.
I explained that I am not his mother and I will not clean up after him. BOOM! (yes, exclamation point!) He's taken an early vacation.
Although I appreciate Dave's list of do's and don'ts as much as I like George Carlin's list of words you can not say on television, I must say that quotations in a caption can often provide information that will not only help an image get published, but the entire quote itself! Remember, we're journalists first. |
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Neate Sager, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Simcoe | ON | CANADA | Posted: 9:10 PM on 10.23.04 |
->> If you want to be absolutely correct, it's "her/his."
Alphabetically, "her" precedes "his" so it ought to be first. It isn't, due to inherent sexism.
I'm not being P.C. (not that there's anything wrong with that), I'm simply following good grammar. For the same reason you should say/write "daughters and sons" and "female or male." Inevitably, I always see it the other way. |
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Jason Grow, Photographer
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Gloucester | MA | USA | Posted: 9:39 PM on 10.23.04 |
->> Leslie -- I actually struggle over his/hers (Neate, I don't remember any rules of grammar that dictate alphabetizing (alphabetising - sorry, you're Canadian - I mean: I'm not sorry you're Canadian, only that I'm sorry, but I meant to recognize the fact that you are Canadian (which of course isn't anything to be ashamed of (or is it "of which to be ashamed"?)) hers/his or his/hers) but as Tony points out, sometimes using an accepted, and less cumbersome, "their" allows for a better flowing sentence.
jg |
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G.J. McCarthy, Photographer
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Columbia | MO | USA | Posted: 10:25 PM on 10.23.04 |
->> " ... (Neate, I don't remember any rules of grammar that dictate alphabetizing (alphabetising - sorry, you're Canadian - I mean: I'm not sorry you're Canadian, only that I'm sorry, but I meant to recognize the fact that you are Canadian (which of course isn't anything to be ashamed of (or is it "of which to be ashamed"?)) hers/his or his/hers) ... "
Holy crap, Jas —— that may be the most complicated parenthetical statement I've come across in years ... and from a photographer, no less.
What, are you reading "Finnegans Wake" in your spare time or something?
Now has a Joyceian headache,
- gerry - |
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Jason Grow, Photographer
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Gloucester | MA | USA | Posted: 10:39 PM on 10.23.04 |
->> I wrote it for you... kind of a love poem... but in public.
xoxo
Jas |
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George Olivar, Photographer
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Highland Park | NJ | USA | Posted: 11:25 PM on 10.23.04 |
->> Don't get me wrong, I know I use "their" after "everyone" all the time. It's easier and flows better. I was just looking at it from a strictly grammatical point of view. I'm not some kind of grammar fascist in real life!
My real pet peeve is usually spelling, especially the whole "lose/loose" thing, and "could have/could of", especially since "could of" isn't correct in any situation! |
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Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
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San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 1:17 AM on 10.24.04 |
->> Just remember that "y'all's" is singular possessive eand "all y'all's" is plural possessive.
--Mark |
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Thomas Boyd, Photographer
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Eugene | OR | USA | Posted: 3:14 AM on 10.24.04 |
->> This thread has been on my mind for several days. I can't seem to shake it. It's not that I don't agree with the notion that we should all be careful what we say on these boards, because I've said the same thing over the years.
The underlying idea that we will undermine our credibility with some unknown future employer with our poor spelling and grammar just doesn't ring true to me.
For me journalism, specifically photojournalism, is about truth. We communicate our ideas with pictures. We tell truthful stories with pictures.
Sometimes we use these message boards to talk about the process of doing that, we entertain each other, and we learn from each other.
When Mark started this thread and warned us to watch our spelling, punctuation and grammar, my first thought was that I wish he would warn us to communicate more helpful, truthful and interesting ideas. Then it occurred to me that his warning would not inspire us to talk about our ideas at all, but would actually make us think twice about communicating our ideas for fear of offending a possible future employer.
We all know how important caption information is. I've never met a photographer that doesn't want to write an error-free caption, and I'm not advocating we run wild on these boards with poor spelling and grammar. I want everyone to put forth their ideas, advice and stories without fear. With wild abandon even.
If a member of this online community has something to say and can't spell I still want to hear it. I want all of you to tell us what you think if it can enlighten or inspire us.
In a book I'm reading now called "If You Want To Write" by Brenda Ueland I found a very appropriate paragraph that I will share. She's talking about how criticism kills our creative impulse. She says:
"You have noticed how teachers, critics, parents and other know-it-alls, when they see you've written something, become at once long-nosed and finicking and go through it gingerly sniffing out the flaws. AHA! a misspelled word! as though Shakespeare could spell! As though spelling and grammar and what you learn in book about rhetoric has anything to do with freedom and the imagination!" |
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Joe Nicola, Photographer
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Fort Worth | TX | USA | Posted: 8:13 AM on 10.24.04 |
->> Of course, it is correct to assert that pedantic adherence to proper spelling, grammar, etc. can be stifling to the creative process. It reminds me of the method that many schools use to teach children to write, i.e. write what it sounds like without regard to proper spelling or punctuation; let those creative juices flow.
However, and you had to know there was going to be one, when does one cross from the twilight zone, whose boundaries are only that of imagination, into reality where one's credibility as a journalist is evaluated on the strength of such things as spelling, grammar, punctuation? Sometimes, that's all a peer or potential employer has at their disposal to determine if the person's work before them has credibility. Learning these skills doesn't stifle creativity, it gives our ideas clarity and power.
To me, poor spelling, punctuation, and grammar are a reflection of a person's personal discipline. Improperly spelled words, of the variety that would normally be caught by spellcheck, scream out to me: "I AM LAZY AND YOU ARE NOT WORTH MY TIME TO SEND A THOUGHTFUL, CORRECTLY SPELLED MESSAGE!"
It's rather like showing up at a job interview needing a shave, with wrinkled clothes, and hair looking like it hasn't seen a brush or comb in a month or so. That might be fine if the job in question were roofing or pouring concrete, but would you show up for an interview at a Fortune 500 company looking like that? Of course not. First impressions are important, whether they are made with a neatly pressed shirt and slacks or with a resume and writing sample that is relatively free of spelling, grammar and punctuation errors.
And how do we get to the magical land of near-perfect spelling, punctuation and grammar usage? Practice, practice, practice. Where? In forums like this. |
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Thomas Boyd, Photographer
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Eugene | OR | USA | Posted: 3:21 PM on 10.24.04 |
->> My point was not that correct spelling and grammar are unimportant or stifle creativity.
It's correcting someone's spelling and grammar that stifles the free flow of ideas. It's warning someone that their imperfect spelling and grammar will somehow come back to haunt them in the future that stifles participation and discourse.
Where I come from it's far more rude to correct someone's poor grammar than to use poor grammar.
In the end, I just want to know what someone's thoughts and ideas are about a thread.
I prefer to judge a photographer by the content of their messages and quality of their photos over the technical prowess of their writing. |
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Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
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San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 3:57 PM on 10.24.04 |
->> Thomas,
I'm glad you posted your thoughts. They flesh-out my original point.
Everything that we post here displays facets of our skills, beliefs and personalities. But the very nature of online interaction is that of momentary, skimming contact. Rarely are these writings examined for more than their surface meanings. Presentation counts more than it deserves to.
Thoughts. and concepts are more important than appearances, but it's important to remember human nature and that humans are greatly affected by first impressions.
If I have a choice between two talented photographers, one of whom has poor writing skills, guess which one I'm going to choose?
--Mark |
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Dave Amorde, Photographer
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Lake Forest | CA | USA | Posted: 5:30 PM on 10.24.04 |
->> Thomas, in keeping with your thoughts of which is "far more rude," I commmend Mark not only for his original thoughts, but for posting them in a new thread. No one has named names, and Mark's final thoughts are dead on. In such a competitive market, it only makes sense to keep our writing skills up to par.
Photographers will sell their souls for a 400/2.8, but don't bother to invest in one of the books recommended in this thread. And, last time I checked, dictionary.com was still free. :-) |
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Greg Ferguson, Photographer
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Scottsdale | Az | USA | Posted: 5:38 PM on 10.24.04 |
->> In the past I had the dubious position of being the one who got to correct the grammar of the VP of our division. He'd write a message to send, and ask me to proofread it. He had the words there but out of order. His comment was just that, and everyone should know what he meant as a result. I was always tempted to write a memo to him with the correct words scrambled in their sentences to make a point.
There is a reason we have rules for grammar and agreed-upon spellings for words. They help us convey ideas. Those who diverge from the conventions unnecessarily slow the transfer of their message to others because they force the reader to decode then translate or guess what was meant. Those actions lead to inaccurate transfer of the ideas and messages, diluting their strength and purity.
I find my brain grows weary of reading poorly written messages and that I will not do it for long unless I am fascinated with the content more than the way it's written. I am a huge fan of Mark Twain. Using colloquial phrases he conveyed pure messages, but we rarely find his ability to tell a tale among those who can't spell or put together a sentence nor can they hold my attention throughout an entire book, let alone write or reach the levels to be known as American classic authors.
I was taught to write through reading the classics and emulating them. I prefer to write in a familiar and comfortable way because of my love of Twain, but I also recognize the need to be able to shift gears and speak (and write) formally. Doing so allows me to get the point across without coloring or loss of meaning.
Mark's final comment summed it up well. "If I have a choice between two talented photographers, one of whom has poor writing skills, guess which one I'm going to choose?" In a photojournalistic field we are expected to speak and shoot clearly and we are judged by our ability to do both well because the written word and the photograph are used together to communicate the story. |
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Doug Pizac, Photographer
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Sandy | UT | USA | Posted: 6:47 PM on 10.24.04 |
->> Mark's point is well said. Let me add something that will hit more to home, or the pocketbook as it may be.
The better speller you are and the more attention to detail you do equates to the pay you can command and the jobs you get.
I've been with AP for over two decades; the last 10 in Salt Lake City. During this time, I've seen many photographers come and go. Those who stayed and grew whether with AP or somewhere else could be trusted with captions. Those who failed to even get the subject's name right have floundered. I've personally stopped using many photographers because of their caption skills.
Keep in mind that your credibility isn’t judged by the photos you take, it is you and your ability to create a professional product, and conduct yourself appropriately.
Many photographers have come to me looking for work or want help to get hired as an AP staffer in another bureau. When they spell my name or the name of my company wrong, they don’t get very far. (It has happened.) For those on newspapers looking to hop aboard or find a larger newspaper, one’s portfolio isn’t the only thing that is considered. When a member photog comes to me looking for work, I simply do a search of their name in our photo archive and see how much they’ve contributed and how good their captions are for a reality check. I know of some newspaper editors who do the same with applicants. After all, portfolios show off your best work over a period of time, not your everyday production.
I’ve gotten phone calls from photo editors in other parts of the country asking about AP stringers and even member newspaper photographers who are applying for jobs elsewhere. While I’ve recommended many, I’ve also downgraded many others because of their captions and work ethics.
Another problem with not being able to spell is that it screws up archive searches. If one is looking for pictures of say Utah Gov. Olene Walker, you naturally search for “Olene” since it is an unusual spelling. However, if the name is spelled Oleen, in the archive, you won’t find it. And this isn’t limited to AP and newspapers either. If that type of mistake is done in a freelancer’s database of pictures, he/she will lose out on sales. (This is where the pocketbook kicks in.) What good is a picture if you can’t find it? And telling a potential client you need time to research it won’t produce return business -- especially when the photo editor is on deadline and he/she doesn’t have time for a return phone call.
Over the past 30+ years I’ve been in photography, our business has changed dramatically. True, good pictures are still good pictures. However, we are no longer shooting film where a librarian properly files our negatives. We are no longer making prints and attaching assignment/caption sheets to the photos where copy editors can be relied on to make sure everything in the caption is correct. We no longer have companies where you can be assured a lifelong job once hired.
We are now a mobile society where we move where the work takes us and have to rely on our own enterprise to survive in the meantime or move up in the world. We are not only taking pictures, but what we write in the file info box is being copied and pasted directly in the paper, and the pictures are merged into the electronic photo library database without being double checked.
Without basic survival skills, one’s dreams and goals cannot be reached. Two of those skills are proper spelling and grammar. Another is knowing how to conduct business -- not just getting jobs, but being able to do budgeting and cost estimates so you can afford insurance, health care, retirement funding, new photo gear, a house, food, etc.
One of the great disappointments I’ve seen over my career is the high number of college graduates who have dreams, great dreams, but never took the opportunity they had to become educated in how to write, basic business understanding, contract law, copyright, etc. when they were still in school. Many of those dreams have turned into jobs not related to their major.
For those of you still in college, take business courses, news/feature/sports writing classes, basic law classes, and more in addition to your photojournalism requirements. You won’t be sorry.
Those who are capable of not having to be worried about will go far and obtain their dreams. |
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Jason Grow, Photographer
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Gloucester | MA | USA | Posted: 7:00 PM on 10.24.04 |
->> Doug wrote: When they spell my name or the name of my company wrong, they don’t get very far.
And the correct spelling would be...?
jg |
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David A. Cantor, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Toledo | OH | USA | Posted: 7:28 PM on 10.24.04 |
->> Doug wrote:
"Another problem with not being able to spell is that it screws up archive searches."
This point is so overlooked by photographers but always present in the minds of editors, who often have to spend time correcting spelling errors to make sure archive searches will be successful.
Frankly I would rather spend that time in the newsroom trying get better picture play or killing bad assignments. |
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Jason Grow, Photographer
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Gloucester | MA | USA | Posted: 7:34 PM on 10.24.04 |
->> Sorry Doug, I was only joshing... you bring up some incredibly important points... I didn't want my stupid aside to minimize your message...
jg |
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Matt Hevezi, Photo Editor
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Camp Pendleton | CA | USA | Posted: 1:03 AM on 10.25.04 |
->> May I please pile on with you all?
My take on this popular and important topic is that word competence is surely a skill ... take away spelling/grammar checkers, e-thesauruses, e-dictionaries and other quick tools to keep words "right and correct," we'd see a lot more word acne out here.
But if you flip-flop the issue to visual skill with camera and think about the quick tools of AUTO: focus, white balance, exposure, etc; remove them and you'd see the same result visually ... photographic acne.
Caller's question here is: can a person be really, really good at just one discipline and still be professionally respected?
Please don't process this thought as "Hevezi is advocating photographers "not" be proficient at "words."
I only make the point because I was thinking of a close relative who is a very accomplished visual artist; he has very little command of the written word.
I'm equally fine with the idea that top-notch word people not be shamed by visual incompetence when challenged to make and image of some sort in the course of their word duty.
Would a word person be any less respected for being a visual weakling, than a visual artist who is a weakling with the word?
I believe there should be tolerance and balance to this idea as it could be applied to individuals out being paid to create superior photographs for an audience.
For what it’s worth… oh yeah, yes I spell-checked the daylights out of this post. Did I miss anything? |
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Thomas Boyd, Photographer
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Eugene | OR | USA | Posted: 1:06 AM on 10.25.04 |
->> I think we all agree that captions and resumes should not have errors of any kind. I don't think anyone on this thread ever implied that.
Mark started this thread in reference to how we communicate with each other on this message board.
There seems to be some members that feel our postings should be every bit as flawless as captions and resumes. And, if they aren't, we should have to pay the price by not ever being hired by very important photo editors that value perfect spelling in every form of written communication.
I, however, don't feel that way. I think this should be a refuge to share ideas without ominous warnings that spelling and grammatical errors will result in poverty and shattered dreams.
Am I so far out to suggest that the content and value of someone's ideas are more important on a message board than their ability to spell?
I think Mark Loundy's heart was in the right place on this thread. I think he's been seeing members post on here that are hurting their reputation and ability to get hired. I think he wants to help people think ahead a little. I appreciate that. He has a long track record of helping photographers.
The problem is that a member can spell quite well and still alienate people (here I go again!).
I chimed in here because I don't think it should matter so much we need to be reminded and warned of the serious consequences of poor spelling. This board is not a newspaper. It is not a caption. It is not a resume. We can tell the difference.
My concern is that quality discussion (yes, there is some) will fade from these boards because most members will feel too insecure to share their ideas. They will conclude there is no upside to sharing when there are people running a spell check on their posts. |
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