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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Laptop Choices, Mac vs PC for student
Collin Pierson, Photographer, Student/Intern
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Milwaukee | WI | USA | Posted: 5:55 PM on 10.13.04 |
->> hey all-
so my dad is buying my pc laptop from me...im stuck with a choice...either stay pc, or make the move to mac. I am a student, who does alot of photography on a regular basis, photoshop, essays, checkin out sportsshooter.com, etc. I need something thin and light, ideally with a nice 15 widescreen, maybe with the HD or Xbrite, or whatever you want to call it. (mac screens are just stellar i guess). What to do? ive used pc all my life, and dont know if this is the right choice. I need firewire, usb 2.0's, DVI would be nice, and goooood battery life for nights at the library, and built in wireless. ANY SUGGESTIONS? im really torn with the mac/pc thing because a mentor of mine has said that finding software for a mac can be a problem. But if i were to stay pc...could i find one that is just like a mac in form and function???? |
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Bob Stanton, Photographer
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Palo Alto | CA | United States | Posted: 6:24 PM on 10.13.04 |
->> Collin
i spent 8 yrs at apple and 6 at intel. in my mind this is a total personal preference thing. the PC clearly has more development for it--they own over 95% of the mkt, so there will be items you will be frustrated with that are missing for the mac. microsoft is usually a generation ahead in its office suite on the PC--if that even matters. finally, intel has some lower power consumption chipsets that will give you better battery life -- but a second battary for the mac is not that expensive. my kid is a senior at an ivy and made it thru totally on mac. my wife is a datacom engineer and prefers the mac but has both because they are better at different things. i prefer macs.
for photo stuff, I see both out there, but a surprising number of macs--i think photo guys are more left brain types.
on the the mac platform-while I love the Powerbook look and feel (what we have here)-the ibooks have come to the level of totally professional functional machines--something to consider if $ are an issue. this is especially true with the smaller 12" models.
people can go on an on about the technical issues of OSX vs XP but not sure it really matters unless you are a developer--with one exception: Macs do tend to pic up less virus issues, partially due to their lower popularity with hackers.
try them both out and see which you really like. people tend to polaraize on this so make sure to get whatever works best for you. If you decide mac, make sure to take advantage of the student discount--either at your school or just go to the apple site and type your school name in and order it there. and finally, if you decide to upgrade the memory, double check the web for apple approved memory as certain manufactures ddr will mess-up your machine. (lock ups, shut down messages, etc--been there) |
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Greg Ferguson, Photographer
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Scottsdale | Az | USA | Posted: 6:52 PM on 10.13.04 |
->> Finding software for a Mac being an issue? Not for the creative arts. Apple OWNS that "niche" market.
There's a bunch of very good programs for photographers. You'll find Photo Mechanic, iView Media Pro, and Photoshop are cross-platform, satisfy 90% of what you need to do, and were written for the Mac first (though Adobe has slipped in some PC-isms over the last couple of years.)
Apple's own iPhoto is pretty cool and has some nice features I'd like to see in other programs, and makes a decent lightweight editing/cataloging tool, and it's on the disk when you buy a Mac. Their iLife suite is great for the whole still/video editing to DVD mastering path.
If you need highend software it's there too.
Macs have traditionally fallen behind on engineering and business apps, but that stuff is there, only the selection is smaller. Smaller doesn't mean worse, it just means there's not the choices.
Apple is good about defining what makes a piece of software "Mac-like". Mac developers tend to follow those guidelines because Mac users howl when they vary from the Mac-way. That means you'll find more consistency in how apps work on the Mac. The PC world is getting better, but, as someone who uses both a lot, I find my Mac's interface more usable.
The virus issue is a major problem on PCs. You WILL get hit on a PC unless you regularly maintain and update your definitions. The attack might be minor, or take out your machine. Currently the only known vulnerabilities on the Mac are through holes in the definitions of jpeg, mp3 and mpeg files, and nobody has exploited them yet. Well written applications closed those holes as soon as they were revealed, so, in effect, the current MacOS environment is virus free. I don't expect that to remain, but it's nice to not have the hassle right now.
As someone with over 20+ years supporting both platforms as they've matured, I've seen Apple rise and fall and rise again. The current lineup is sweet - we own three of them. My beaten-up G4 Ti Powerbook is still running nicely though it looks like hell. My wife's 12" G4 Powerbook is totally awesome for travel and editing. She runs it for hours without A/C in all sorts of nasty wind, heat and dust, and loves it. She wasn't sure she'd like it and wanted a PC but since I have to support our hardware she got what I wanted her to have. Being an IS/IT guy for years shows through in odd ways eh?! :-) Anyway, she loves the little critter and tells everyone to buy Macs.
For raw speed or (slightly higher) bang for the buck along with the virus headaches, go PC . For integrated OS and apps, a no-brainer UI that just works as you'd expect, and great photographer tools, look at Macs. They'll both do the job. |
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Stanley Leary, Photographer
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Roswell | GA | USA | Posted: 7:33 PM on 10.13.04 |
->> I own both and work with both. For the money 1/2 the price PCs are pretty good. Also, you can generally get the fastest processors in PC and the MAC G5 laptop just isn't coming anytime soon. Why is this the case, the chips in the MACs get so hot and really would burn up in a laptop.
So, you can pretty much find the top end PC laptop and it will flat scream past the G4 laptop.
If you already have all the software for PC then you have to spend even more money to buy the MAC versions.
MACs are really cool and think more like most creative people and do not require the skills to know where things are quite like the PC.
While it is true much of the software in creative field is written for MAC, this is not true with the camera manufacturers software. Canon and Nikon are made in Japan and it is primarily PC environment.
I have waited a long time for a lot of the software to upgrade on the MAC side when the PC was out for a while.
Bottom line it is really a personal decision like Bob Stanton said. Both will do the job.
One last thing to consider is support. I don't mean getting on the phone with support with the manufacturers, but how many of your friends can help you learn some of the other stuff--you know like how to go into OSX and cleanup the registry. What does a safemode reboot do to help performance.
If you are the only one using a MAC in your area and you ever need help it can get expensive calling for help. |
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Chris Jennings, Photographer
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Sherman | TX | USA | Posted: 7:41 PM on 10.13.04 |
| ->> I use both and they both work well. But I tend to like PC better, probably due to the fact that I started on PC. |
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Damon Moritz, Photographer
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Woodbridge | Va. | USA | Posted: 7:47 PM on 10.13.04 |
->> There are computers other than Mac? I haven't seen them.
Get a Mac and never go back.
Mac's are so much better in design, ease of use and compatibility that there really is no comparisson.
I still use a Mac G3/300 iBook. It's about 8 years old and it is still powerfull enough to run OS X. Name an 8 year old PC which can do the same.
Damon Moritz |
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Andy White, Photographer
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Neenah | WI | USA | Posted: 7:49 PM on 10.13.04 |
| ->> For what you (or in your case your dad) pay, you get more with a PC notebook. My favorite is the IBM, thanks to its pointing device on the keyboard. I started with PC's then got a Mac while I worked at a newspaper. They bought a 15" Powerbook, but I was disapointed with the speed. My advice, try out a Mac in the store, and compare it to your PC expericace. Then see what dad wants to spend. |
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David Hudson, Photographer
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Redondo Beach | CA | USA | Posted: 7:51 PM on 10.13.04 |
->> Everyone has raised some great points here. I've used both for quite sometime, and it mostly boils down to personal preference.
That being said, also think about your "network". Not just a physical network that maybe you will connect the machine to, but also your network of friends and associates that you work and play with. While interoperability between the systems is continuing to get better, you will inevitably hit road blocks if your running one OS, and your colleagues are running a different one. The support thing is definitely important as Stanley mentions.
Do you like playing games on your computer? If so, the PC might be a better choice - while there are games out there for the Mac, the PC is pretty far ahead when it comes to selection of titles and developer attention.
Of course, one cool thing about the Mac is that OS X is kinda like 2 operating systems in one. Obviously, there is the "official" Mac OS X, but if you open the Terminal utility, you can work with the Darwin core of OS X, which is based on BSD, a Unix variant. There is a *ton* of stuff on there that you can mess with too: email programs, scripting languages, secure networking tools, web servers, etc. |
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Bob Stanton, Photographer
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Palo Alto | CA | United States | Posted: 8:21 PM on 10.13.04 |
| ->> oh, one other item--from real world experience: if you get a mac, consider the extended warranty plan apple offers. situation #1: my kids pc goes through the airline xray, it gets bounced around real hard by the security person--pc starts to act 'strange'. goes back under the extended and gets new drive, new m/b all covered. situation #2: Kid drops full glass of beer on keyboard--Collin I'm sure this type of thing would never happen at your college, and pc starts to smell funny and begins smoking. went back to apple--NOT covered under extended warranty--repair called me and say it smelled like beer--no deal. cost $750 to get it running again. SO, for most things, the warranty works. Drunken college parties, you are on your own. |
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Gavin Werbeloff, Photographer, Student/Intern
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Decatur | GA | USA | Posted: 8:31 PM on 10.13.04 |
->> First I have to say I'm a mac homer, so thats my disclaimer. It does come down to a personal choice but if this is going to be your all around computer, to be used on a college network, and for photography, there are some places that Mac's have a distinct advantage.
1. Virus protection - if you're been on a college network at all, you know viruses make their way around on a very regular basis and when they hit they can be VERY debilitating. You really don't have to worry about that on a mac.
2. Less of a performance/ battery life trade off. - It was mentioned that the G5 has not been put into a laptop yet. There is a reason. It's a 64 bit chip. There is only one 64 bit laptop on the market right now and it won't last nearly as long as a G4 laptop will. Even with the P4 vs. PM w/ centrino choice puts you at a disadvantage because the P4 sucks batteries and is very hot and the PM w/ centrino doesn't have a math co-processor which put you at a disadvantage for performance in photoshop.
3. I believe the software issue is a mute point. The Office Mac team is actually ahead of their Windows counterpart at the moment. I have used mac practically my whole life, and I have only recently found myself in a position where a product I needed was not available for Mac (examsoft which makes exam taking software for law students doesn't come for mac.)
4. I have the machine you are probably looking at given your requirements (15 inch PB) and it has been flawless for 9 months. Apple's tech support is very good and they can handle pretty much everything because of the vertical integration model they use. If you do have to send it in, their turn around time is incredibly quick, on par with what you would expect with a professional product.
So there you have my 2ยข.
-Gavin |
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Collin Pierson, Photographer, Student/Intern
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Milwaukee | WI | USA | Posted: 9:50 PM on 10.13.04 |
->> ok so heres my deal here is what i need, IF i were to get a PC.-
-Great battery life
-THIN design, and light
-Widescreen display...hopefully an Xbrite or something 15 incher would be great
-did i say thin and light?
-it would be nice to have DVI out.
-PCMCIA
-Wireless
-QUALITY BUILD
anybody know of such a pc? |
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C.D. McGonigal, Photographer
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Dan Mendlik, Photographer
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Elyria | OH | USA | Posted: 11:43 PM on 10.13.04 |
| ->> I always answer this question this way. Which is better Ford or Chevy, Canon or Nikon. Everyone has their own opinions. The best thing is to go to a computer store and try them out. You will find one you like. |
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Bryan Oller, Photographer
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Colorado Springs | CO | USA | Posted: 1:12 AM on 10.14.04 |
->> Collin,
My opinion is to go with the Mac. I've used both and I've found it to be much easier to operate, especially when time is of the essence. Although using a PC is just fine too. It just depends on which one you feel more comfortable with. However you'll see many more photographers using a Mac on the job. But more importantly they offer a discount for students. With a student discount I'm pretty sure you can get an ibook for under a grand. Check it out online. Good luck. |
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Brady Creel, Photographer
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College Station | TX | USA | Posted: 11:14 AM on 10.14.04 |
| ->> I'm a student who recently made the switch. Got a Mac PowerBook 12". No regrets -- go for it. |
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Collin Pierson, Photographer, Student/Intern
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Milwaukee | WI | USA | Posted: 11:16 AM on 10.14.04 |
->> brady- just the man im looking for-
what about compatability with your friends, u know, sharing papers, and such? most people at college have dells, etc.?
thanks for the comments so far! |
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Thomas E. Witte, Photographer
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Cincinnati | OH | USA | Posted: 11:58 AM on 10.14.04 |
->> Collin-
If you've never used a Mac, you're probably going to be a little xenophobic about it at first but once you sit down and learn it over the course of a week or so, you'll wonder why you didn't do it before.
Everything is compatible if you know what you are doing and what software you need. Even then, what really do you need compatibility with now-a-days? You'll share music, images and word documents... iTunes, Photoshop CS and Office. Almost all of your needs right there. About the only problem I ever had was that I use Quark for a TON of stuff and none of my PC friends had anything that could open the files. But since you'll be going from THAT side to THIS side, that won't be an issue. If you use Quicken, it's cross compatible. Dreamweaver, same. Excel, powerpoint... Same.
As it's been said, the only software advantage is really the choices, not the capability. For instance you can design your own home with software for both systems but with a PC you have about 25 different programs to Mac's two. But the mac programs rank against the top 2 on the PC side. It's true there are a billion friggin games for the PC's as well but after sitting in front of a computer all day, do I really want to play games on it?
As for viruses, it's not because hackers don't want to deal with writing the programming. Far from it. Take it from a novice white hack, they're actually dying to because several extremely sensitive locations are Mac only. Cruise around some hacker sites and read the chatter. |
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Andy White, Photographer
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Neenah | WI | USA | Posted: 11:59 AM on 10.14.04 |
->> Collin,
If the PC people use Microsoft Office, you just need MS Office for the Mac. Or you can try Open Office (if they have a Mac version, as I haven't looked in a while). Most of the popular applications have both Mac and PC versions. If there is something specific you need, go to the company website (if they have one) and see if there is a Mac version. I think you can also buy Virtual PC if you need to run PC applications, but its very slow. |
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Collin Pierson, Photographer, Student/Intern
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Milwaukee | WI | USA | Posted: 2:36 PM on 10.14.04 |
->> ok so what about toshiba's...any experience with them.????
does that bright screen make a big difference? what about the High Def screen that HP has...hp's any good?
Collin Pierson |
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Cameron Davidson, Photographer
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Arlington | VA | USA | Posted: 2:40 PM on 10.14.04 |
->> macintosh, repeat macintosh.
It is the only way to go (in my opinion)
PhotoMechanic, iView, iPhoto, SunPath, MacGPS, iTunes, iPhoto, Watson (soon to die, which is too bad)
Go get a Mac. Forgot about the other stuff and never look back. |
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Andy White, Photographer
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Neenah | WI | USA | Posted: 3:35 PM on 10.14.04 |
->> Cameron,
I have iTunes on my PC, and it works great with my iPod |
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Collin Pierson, Photographer, Student/Intern
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Milwaukee | WI | USA | Posted: 6:08 PM on 10.14.04 |
| ->> anybody know about the toshibas and the newest HP's...specifically the HP dv1000?? build quality, etcc???? |
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Brady Creel, Photographer
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College Station | TX | USA | Posted: 8:15 PM on 10.14.04 |
| ->> Collin: Drop me an email... bradycreel@aggienetwork.com. |
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Jon Thorpe, Photographer
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Mississauga | On | Canada | Posted: 8:37 PM on 10.14.04 |
->> Oh. you will want to 'right click' to save that one (unless you are on a mac - then you have some finger acrobatics that involve the silly extra 'what is that symbol?' key) :)
I love poking fun at Mac guys. I actually used them for years. Im just more productive on a PC for what I do - plus 98% of my target viewers are on PC so it's good to build to it's standards for web stuff. |
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Collin Pierson, Photographer, Student/Intern
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Milwaukee | WI | USA | Posted: 2:17 PM on 10.15.04 |
->> Thank you all for the input so far-
how about the toshibas and Hp's??? anybody???
please refrain from the bashings, etc?!
thanks all
Collin |
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David Seelig, Photographer
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Hailey | ID | USA | Posted: 3:10 PM on 10.15.04 |
| ->> The photo industry runs on macs they are much easier and you do not have to worry about viruses. David |
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Zac Pagett, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Bowling Green | KY | USA | Posted: 12:47 PM on 10.17.04 |
| ->> Collin, I have an HP that is just over 1 year old, and I have had quite a few problems with it. Most I was able to resolve easily but HP's support has not been all that great in my opinion. I am saving up to replace it, but as of yet that hasn't happened. My other complaint with the HP is its a P4 great for speed, battery life sucks... 1.5 hours if I'm really lucky and not doing anything that really uses power (anything at all) and the power supply is a 90 watt unit, so finding replacement units (and mobile power supplies) is a pain in the rear... oh yeah and my touch pad button havn't worked well ever... I always have to use an external mouse... but for the price I paid it was the best out there... All that said, it has held up really well considering it has survived over a year with me... I tend to push things to their breaking point in terms of survivability... hope this helps... Z |
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Talya Arbisser, Student/Intern, Assistant
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Ithaca | NY | USA | Posted: 1:27 PM on 10.17.04 |
->> Hi Collin...
If you need anymore advice about Macs let me know... I am also a student in college and I am purely Mac. Last year I spent some time with a PC while my Ibook was in the shop and I found it to be almost unbearable. I find especially OSX to be awesome to work with in terms of moving between programs, although I know that may just be because I am used to working on them. I currently have a 12" Ibook and this summer sprung for a much higher powered 15" powerbook, and I DO NOT regret it. I had considered looking into the less expensive PCs, but I love my Macs. In terms of sharing papers etc. between other students, OSX works to improve compatibility and I have very few problems working with most things, word documents (as long as you have microsoft word, which is fairly essential) is quite transferable. I am also doing a little bit of webdesign (completely writing all xhtml, php, and css) and have found that easily transferable between browsers when I do it on my mac and pc users see it, I just had to find the right program (which was pretty easy to find). The only real limitations I find with the Mac personally are not having that many games for it or having as many download options (for instance my school, Cornell has free Napster service) truthfully though, I'm kind of glad that I am less tempted to fill up my hard drive space. So this isn't a big deal for me. I love my Mac... I would not in the forseeable future switch over to a PC.
Also do some searches on the SS member board to find out more info, especially if you might be interested when it comes down to picking the correct machine once you have figured out whether you want to go PC or Mac... there is tons of valuable info on here, I know that I started a thread when I was picking which laptop to get... the search function ROCKS! SS Rocks! hehehe...
Hope this helps!
Email me from my member page if you want to know anymore.
-Talya |
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Collin Pierson, Photographer, Student/Intern
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Milwaukee | WI | USA | Posted: 12:12 AM on 10.18.04 |
->> still torn as to what i am going to do?
does anybody know when the newest generation of macs will come out???? id definately get the G4 15 inch powerbook...still anybody know about the toshibas?? ratings have been good on websites, but anybody with real world experience...also their screens?
collin |
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Brady Creel, Photographer
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College Station | TX | USA | Posted: 1:13 AM on 10.18.04 |
->> My brother bought a Toshiba notebook and the screen had several hot pixels. I think it's held up fine otherwise, though.
Go with the Mac. You won't regret it. |
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Collin Pierson, Photographer, Student/Intern
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Milwaukee | WI | USA | Posted: 1:59 AM on 10.18.04 |
| ->> see heres the thing...im interning for a NBAE photog here in milwaukee, thing is, he uses sonys pretty much exclusively, and hes pushin for me to get another pc. thats my biggest delemma. |
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Andy White, Photographer
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Neenah | WI | USA | Posted: 10:07 AM on 10.18.04 |
| ->> Get what YOU want not what someone else wants you to get. |
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Rick Berk, Photographer
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Holbrook | NY | USA | Posted: 12:52 PM on 10.18.04 |
->> I just love all the Mac zealots and their claims. I used a Mac for three years- most unstable machine I ever used. Also had an iBook too. Biggest POS I ever saw.
On the other hand, this garbage about getting viruses is just that. Got a PC? Get a good antivirus program that updates itself automatically. You'll be fine. 10 years with a PC, I've never been infected. Software, IMO, is a wash. If you can't find what you need locally, order online.
The garbage about the photo industry running on Mac? Well, most printers use it, but so what? I design, edit photos, etc all on PC. Never had a problem. Color management easier on a Mac? Bull. My PC is calibrated nicely thanks. My output always looks like the screen.
The bottom line is to go with what works FOR YOU. Personally, if the guy you work with is on a PC, I'd go with that.
I just ordered an Alienware Area51m... can't wait to get it here... |
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Billy Suratt, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Russell Springs | KY | USA | Posted: 7:06 PM on 10.18.04 |
->> Collin,
I recommend against Toshiba. I've owned three, but I won't own another. Build quality and especially support have both gone way down hill. The screens are still nice, though, which is part of the reason why I bought a Toshiba portable DVD player earlier this year. But, I digress...
If you want a PC, look at the IBM ThinkPads and some of the Dells. I've also heard some good stuff about Fujitsus lately, but I don't have any personal experience with them.
The only thing currently keeping me from buying an IBM is that they don't seem to offer built-in firewire on any of their ThinkPads (I could be wrong, but I haven't found one that has it yet). |
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Andy White, Photographer
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Neenah | WI | USA | Posted: 7:21 PM on 10.18.04 |
| ->> I dont see the need for Firewire on a notebook, however maybe the port replicators offer this. |
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Billy Suratt, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Russell Springs | KY | USA | Posted: 10:54 PM on 10.18.04 |
->> I shoot with a Mark II, so firewire allows me to hook the camera up to the computer to access several functions. I also shoot a little digital video from time to time, so I need firewire if I want to be able to capture.
In addition, I have an external firewire dual hard drive enclosure and an external firewire DVD burner. Plus firewire can be used for networking if your ethernet ever goes south. |
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Collin Pierson, Photographer, Student/Intern
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Milwaukee | WI | USA | Posted: 11:25 AM on 10.19.04 |
| ->> well all, no new powerbook today...just a new ibook...with strangely enough, the same processor. im goin home this weekend to hopefully make a decision...argh...eek...gaah! |
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