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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Canon EOS 20D is the bomb
Patrick Murphy-Racey, Photographer
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Knoxville | TN | USA | Posted: 9:37 AM on 09.23.04 |
->> The files are gorgeous, it shoots right when you want it to, I'd guess 4.5 fps on high, and the AF is improved as well. The great thing about Canon is that they are intuative. There is a cool little 4 position toggle switch about the size of a pencil eraser on the back of the camera above the quick control dial. This little bugger allows you to look around the image after zooming in a very simple and direct (fast) way. I still haven't opened the manual once yet and don't plan to; they're for geeks anyways.
It writes to CF cards fast, fast, fast. For $1425, it would be an ideal camera for anyone wanting high quality CMOS based images with "right now" action capturing capability. With the 1/250th flash sync, it makes for the ideal remote body for basketball & hockey. I want to get a grip on one before making this call, but I'm thinking about selling one of my two 1D mark II's and just having one of those and two 20D's for football and hoops this season. Amazing little bugger... I hope the boys in Torrance have something major up their sleeves because this one is a keeper. I think it's arguably the best value ever in a digital body in terms of what you're getting in file size and speed of use for the casheeesh... |
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Caleb Simpson, Photographer, Assistant
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Dallas | Texas | USA | Posted: 9:41 AM on 09.23.04 |
| ->> All right Patrick now I have buyer’s remorse thanks to you. I just bought the Canon 1D for a good price used. I just wonder how the AF compares to the 1D. That is a large reason why I went with the 1D, but those 8megapix sound really nice and I hear the noise control is really nice too. |
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Clark Brooks, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 10:55 AM on 09.23.04 |
->> We received 2 - 20D bodies yesterday and I used one on a job, an awards reception, later in the afternoon. Like PMR said "it is the bomb". My 10D's days are numbered.
In only instance did I have to go to manual focus do a shot, because the subjects were wearing dark clothing in a darker area of the room. The rest of the time the AF performed very well. It was faster than I expected and use to with a similar body. The files look just like 1DM2 files as they should.
But what is really cool is the RAW software's ability convert a file to B/W and apply effects like Sepia or Blue Selenium. Be nice if the Canon folks incorporated this feature into the 1DM2 raw convertor, too.
I noticed a big difference in the advance rate and shutter sensitivity. If you are use to shooting with a 10D or D60 you can use a lighter touch in continuous shooting mode.
I wish the flash sync speed was at 1/500, but otherwise for the serious portrait, non-sport event, and wedding photographer this camera is it. Carrying two or three of these at a wedding would be far nicer than two 1D bodies.
I wanted to get another Mark 2 body after retiring the 10D, but now I'll definitely add two 20D bodies instead. |
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Jack Howard, Photographer
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Somerville | NJ | USA | Posted: 11:00 AM on 09.23.04 |
->> I just got mine yesterday night...I played with it for 20 minutes before falling asleep.
From what I can tell, it is one heck of a camera!
I'll be running it through its paces over the next couple of days.
And I'm scouring the web for a source that has vertical grips in-stock, I'll let you know if I find any. |
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Jon Gardiner, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 11:06 AM on 09.23.04 |
->> Anyone find the 1.6x crop an issue when using both the 20D and the 1D?
-Jon |
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Allen Lester, Photographer
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Norfolk | VA | USA | Posted: 11:06 AM on 09.23.04 |
->> Patrick,
I initially thought I would miss the assist button on the 10D that allowed a quick switch to the registered AF point, HOWEVER, that little toggle-button on the 20D is even better! And how about that buffer!
Clark,
Yes, a little learning curve on the 20D shutter sensitivity. Another benefit of that buffer!
Allen |
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Sean Brady, Photographer
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Brick | NJ | USA | Posted: 11:25 AM on 09.23.04 |
->> Got mine last night.. I love it, I am glad I grabbed this now. I wanted to upgrade from my 10d for sometime and I new Canon would be coming out with something(as they always do). I will be getting another 20D and sell my 10D to cover some of my cost. I am waiting on the VGrip and hope I can grab that soon.. This is a tiny camera, it almost feels like a little point and shoot.
I have a wedding and work for the paper this weekend so the 20D will be getting a workout from me in the next few days. |
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David Griffin, Photographer
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Concord | NC | | Posted: 12:20 PM on 09.23.04 |
| ->> Does anyone have the vertical grip for it, yet? |
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Allen Lester, Photographer
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Norfolk | VA | USA | Posted: 12:48 PM on 09.23.04 |
->> David,
As I understand it from Michelle at Samy's, neither the grip or the new flash have been shipped form Canon.
Allen |
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Jay Adeff, Photographer
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Salinas | CA | USA | Posted: 12:55 PM on 09.23.04 |
->> Several places are now getting the vertical grip (BG-E2) in stock now. Try Canoga camera (even though the website say it's not in stock), 17th Street Photo, and a few other places listed on the DPReview 20D message board.
I should be getting my vertical grip within a couple of days (ordered from 17th Street Photo). The most exciting thing for me about the 20D is the improved autofocus and the incredibly fast write times. Rob Galbraith claims it may have the fastest write times of any DSLR on the market. |
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Jack Howard, Photographer
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Chuong Doan, Photographer
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Kansas City | MO | USA | Posted: 1:25 PM on 09.23.04 |
->> Is the viewfinder small and dark like the 10D?
I went from a 10D to 1D and the difference was night and day as far as the viewfinder goes. I could actually manual focus with the 1D. |
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Steven E. Frischling, Photographer
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New England | | USA | Posted: 1:26 PM on 09.23.04 |
->> Jack:
I was just in Hunts Photo & Video in Hadley, MA, yesterday afternoon (and actually on the phone with the manager at this moment). What they have is two EOS 20D bodies, not the grips.
Hunt's in Melrose has the bodies as well, but no grips (none in the computer system, no shipping date at this time either)
.......if you have to buy from Hunt's Photo & Video, deal with Ann of Mike at the Hadley location (1(413)585-9430)
PS:
Did you talk to Walter in Melrose or Walter in Hadley? |
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Clark Brooks, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 1:28 PM on 09.23.04 |
->> >>>Does anyone have the vertical grip for it, yet?
We received our two today. Canon did another cool thing. An insert comes with it so you can use six AA batts instead of the BP511/512.
The only thing I don't like about the grip is a textured area for the thumb to sorta stick to when shooting vertical. Otherwise, I'm happy to have it. |
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Steven E. Frischling, Photographer
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New England | | USA | Posted: 1:43 PM on 09.23.04 |
->> OK, so just to clarify Ann at Hunts Photo in Hadley just called me and let me know that Hunt's does indeed some how have SIX BG-E2 grips IN STOCK.
She thinks five are already sold and waiting for their new homes, but that leaves one available. While she has not seen the grip, a floor manager at the warehouse says he saw the six boxes of BG-E2 grips come in.
Call quick (1(413)585-9430), ask for Ann, tell her Fish sent you.
(odd they have it ahead of everyone else though) |
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Jack Howard, Photographer
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Somerville | NJ | USA | Posted: 1:50 PM on 09.23.04 |
->> Fish, I didn't get a location, I called the phone number from the web page...a headsup from another photo board...Call the number on the webpage and ask for Walter...
Adorama sent a bunch of pre-orders out already, so they say, and are again back-ordered...
B&H has them in, check the website, I also talked to a sales rep, and they confirmed that they are in-stock and shipping today, mine should be here tomorrow or Saturday. |
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Clay Carson, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Little Rock | AR | | Posted: 1:55 PM on 09.23.04 |
| ->> Anyone know of aplace that has the body in stock? Please don't laugh |
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Steven E. Frischling, Photographer
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New England | | USA | Posted: 1:55 PM on 09.23.04 |
->> Jack
Thanks for the info
It is just kind of odd, as I was in there yesterday and they were telling me they had to wait for the grip....and behold, they had them.
Oh well, nice folks, but their computer system is a bit old and often incorrect
.....oh yea, I need to plug the sponsors now....I like Penn Camera alot and in the past Roberts has been good as well. |
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Mark Stallings, Photographer
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Greenwood | AR | USA | Posted: 2:09 PM on 09.23.04 |
| ->> Clay, did you try Bedfords. I picked mine up at Bedfords in Ft. Smith last Friday. I know they were also sending some to Little Rock. |
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Clay Carson, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Little Rock | AR | | Posted: 2:50 PM on 09.23.04 |
->> Thanks jack, Beach did have the kits. I'll use the lens for a doorstop. Anyone elses that is looking for one can go to
Beach Camera/buydig.com
Use thenumber on the webpage X234 ask for Bill... |
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Mike McLaughlin, Photographer
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Neptune City | NJ | USA | Posted: 2:53 PM on 09.23.04 |
->> Some things should just not be talked about on these boards, and I'm really offended by this post!!!
Ok, so I'm really only offended because I've been tossing around buying the 20D for awhile and after reading this thread I just dropped $1700 with Jody at Robert's. Thanks guys, I'm never gonna be able to save anything!!!
Jody has the VGrip in stock right now, so give him a call. |
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Mark Stallings, Photographer
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Greenwood | AR | USA | Posted: 3:03 PM on 09.23.04 |
->> Clay,
Has the ARK DEM GAZ switched to Canon now???
Just wondering, your photogs in NWA I run into seemed to have Nikon equipment. |
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Richard Johnson, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Marietta | GA | USA | Posted: 3:15 PM on 09.23.04 |
->> Professional Photo Resources in Atlanta (11th Street; 404-885-1885) has some of the grips in stock. I picked mine up this morning. The guys there are fantastic!
I shot a couple of events since last Thursday and have been very happy with this camera. The only issue I have encountered is when shooting a night soccer match at ISO 3200. It tended to overexpose on about 1/3 of the shots. Through 1600, the metering seems right on. |
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Dave Kennedy, Photographer
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Nanuet | NY | US | Posted: 4:00 PM on 09.23.04 |
->> We just got a trio of the grips (hopefully the cameras will be at my paper soon) , they seem pretty cool but I'm not happy about the textured area not being there on the back battery door.
Also the AA battery carriage doesn't fit to well in the grip. And the tabs that hold the carriage in are smaller and sort of flimsy.
We got our grips from Unique Photo in NJ, I don't know if they have more in stock but it might be worth a call if someone needs them.
DK |
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Randy Janoski, Photographer
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Chapel Hill | TN | USA | Posted: 4:20 PM on 09.23.04 |
| ->> Well it is true the 20D is fine camera for its price but after trying one out for two days I came away less impressed than I thought I would. For me it came down to just a few points of difference between the 20D and either a 1D or 1D mkII. Full sensor images in RAW and JPEG LG, the 1D and mkII bodies were just smoother in tonality, I'm sure the 8.2 pixel size over the 6.4 makes that difference. I didn't like the viewfinder, size and darkness and a minor point is the LCD size. Another factor for me is that I simply like using the same bodies when covering an assignment. If I didn't have any cameras or had never used the 1 series bodies I might be more inclined to go with the 20's and down the road who knows...but for now I'm sticking with the 1D and mkII series bodies. So Patrick I'll be watching the classifieds if indeed you think to sell one of yours! |
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Baron Sekiya, Photographer
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Kailua-Kona | HI | USA | Posted: 10:19 PM on 09.23.04 |
| ->> The only negative I've heard so far about the 20D is that it's shutter (or mirror) is noisier than the 10D. So if you're shooting a quiet private meeting situation or courtroom stuff it's noisy. Of course if you're at an NFL game you'll never notice the difference in noise. |
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Jack Howard, Photographer
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Somerville | NJ | USA | Posted: 10:44 PM on 09.23.04 |
->> That's too funny Dave!
You've got grips and no cameras, and we're all in the opposite boat!
:) |
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Dave Kennedy, Photographer
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Nanuet | NY | US | Posted: 11:25 PM on 09.23.04 |
->> Cameras we don't need no stinkin' cameras...
DK |
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Zack Podell, Photographer, Assistant
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Marina Del Rey | CA | USA | Posted: 11:46 PM on 09.23.04 |
->> Randy,
8.2 over 6.4 pixel size???? I was under the impression that the MkII and the 20D have almost identical resolutions....
Also, I am almost certain to get rid of my MkII when it comes back from a clean & check at Canon. I have 3 batteries for it, and will be throwing in the SD card, (256mb) I bought for it. I am 100% certain it has less than 500 shutter actuations on it, and that may be very high, (I don't know how low, but I have barely used it... I bought it in July). My decision is based on my needs..... And my primary need is ultra wide angle lenses. I therefore am getting the 20D, the 10-22 Afs, along with the grip. I will be doing this sometime next week, so if you see this before I list it, and want it, let me know. Just keep in mind that I can't let it go until it comes back from canon.
As happy as I am with Canon, I am kinda bummed that they have not done anything lens wise for the pros, like the nikon 12-24. I mean I use my 15 and 17-35 more than any other lenses..... And I cant get any wider than like 20mm without going to the 20D, or sigma lenses. I really am looking forward to the 10-22, and the 20D, even though I have to give up my MkII to get there.
ZAP |
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George Olivar, Photographer
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Highland Park | NJ | USA | Posted: 12:04 AM on 09.24.04 |
| ->> This is goind to sound goofy, but does anyone have (or know where I can see) a picture of the body w/ grip attached? Just curious. |
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Pat Farrington, Photographer
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George Olivar, Photographer
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Highland Park | NJ | USA | Posted: 12:09 AM on 09.24.04 |
| ->> Cool. Thanks, Pat! |
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Duane Burleson, Photographer
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Sterling Heights | MI | USA | Posted: 12:23 AM on 09.24.04 |
->> I'm very, very, happy with my 20D, so much so that my 1D has become my second camera. I've shot the Detroit Lions and Detroit Tigers night games at 1600 asa and the files are beautiful (it's nice being able to shoot night baseball at 1/1000 of a second).
Zack-
The 20D and 1D Mark II both have the same file size, what he is talking about is the fact that each pixel is smaller on the 20D chip (the 20D chip is smaller than the Mark II chip). Typically smaller pixels mean more noise but Canon has done some wizardry that makes the 20D incredibly low on noise. I don't have a Mark II so can't compare them.
Duane |
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Jenn Jedynak, Photographer
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Cache Bay | ON | Canada | Posted: 1:10 AM on 09.24.04 |
->> Haven't seen mention of back and soft focus issues as with the 10D. Can those of you who have used the 10D and are now using the 20D comment on whether or not this had been improved. (I'm assuming it has)but would like to hear your opinions.
I'm using a 10D now, and you guys have me just about convinced it's time to pack it in.
Thanks :-)
Jenn |
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Randy Janoski, Photographer
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Chapel Hill | TN | USA | Posted: 5:10 AM on 09.24.04 |
| ->> Zack, resolution between the two is not the same and remember that resolution (the term) as applied to digital sensors vs film resolution are a bit different. Duane is correct in the fact that the pixel size/pitch of the 1D and mkII are larger than the 20 and that's where the image quality comes from. This is shown easily and is why the old 1D at 4mp still produces a higher quality image than the 10D at 6mp. As to the wide angle lens, if my math is totally off, (it's very late, or very early!) a 12mm on a 1.6 is about a 19.2 focal length and the 16mm on a 1.3 is around a 20.8 so your not gaining a whole lot. All this aside as I said the 20 is allot of camera for the money, I just didn't like it. |
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Jack Howard, Photographer
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Somerville | NJ | USA | Posted: 10:22 AM on 09.24.04 |
| ->> Jenn, I'm shooting a HS football game this afternoon, my first real action shoot with the 20D...I'll try to post a shot or two, or at least comment on the AF speed/focus vis a vis the 10D... |
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Mark Stallings, Photographer
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Greenwood | AR | USA | Posted: 11:32 AM on 09.24.04 |
| ->> I've shot a couple of prep football games with mine. There is no doubt it's improved in the AF. But, even better has been the lack of shutter lag. I've been nailing shots that I missed with the 10D. Also, the 5 FPS has been helpful too. I shoot some bike races this weekend, so I'll see how the AF does on fast moving subjects. But, my early impression is very good at this point. |
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Larry Wong, Photographer
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Edmonton | Canada | Canada | Posted: 11:54 AM on 09.24.04 |
| ->> I have been using the EOS 20D for a week now and love the quality files that the camera produces! But there is a serious problem that I hope Canon can fix soon. The camera sometimes locks up when you change lenses. This is an intermittent problem but has happened to me at least 5 times in the past week. The camera will unlock if I take the camera battery out of the chamber and then insert it again. I am thinking about returning the camera due to this problem. |
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James Pezoulas, Photographer, Assistant
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McKinney | TX | USA | Posted: 12:09 PM on 09.24.04 |
| ->> B&H has the vertical grip for $169 plus shipping. Ordered mine last night! |
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Al Goldis, Photographer
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East Lansing | MI | USA | Posted: 12:16 PM on 09.24.04 |
->> The AF is very much improved over the 10D, and you'll have no trouble noticing the difference. I don't think the AF or overall responsiveness is as good as a 1D but it's pretty amazing for a camera that costs a fraction of what the 1D sold for when it first came out.
As already mentioned, the card write speed is insanely fast and the low-light image quality is superb. For a preliminary rough estimate, I would say the 20D is about 1.25 stops cleaner than a 1D, i.e. ISO 1600 noise on the 20D is equal to ISO 640 (or at least 800) on the 1D.
I still prefer the sharpness of 1D images, but that's just what I'm accustomed to. |
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Gregg Riess, Photographer
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Overland Park | KS | USA | Posted: 3:10 PM on 09.24.04 |
->> I brought home a 20D this afternoon. My test shots are RAW, and the file extension is .CR2
These files are not coming up in Photoshop CS. The file browser doesn't seem them, and File/Open does not recognize the file type.
Do I need a plug-in from Canon and/or Photoshop to work with my RAW 20D files in Photoshop CS.
Your thoughts? |
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Trent Nelson, Photographer
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Salt Lake City | UT | USA | Posted: 3:15 PM on 09.24.04 |
->> gregg-
you need to download the newest version of adobe camera raw from http://www.adobe.com |
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Gregg Riess, Photographer
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Overland Park | KS | USA | Posted: 3:28 PM on 09.24.04 |
->> Trent, thanks for your post - however, I'm already looking at the Adobe site, and I don't see that Canon's 20D RAW is supported.
http://www.adobe.com/support/techdocs/319291.html
Does anyone know if in fact Canon's 20D RAW is supported? Any timeframe when it's expected? |
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Zack Podell, Photographer, Assistant
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Marina Del Rey | CA | USA | Posted: 7:18 PM on 09.24.04 |
->> Randy,
as I said, it boils down to 16mm Versus 20mm (after the fact) since the 10-22 equals essentially a 16-35 in full frame, (10x 1.6= 16...... 22x 1.6= 35.2)..... so the question becomes having the need for fisheye, and having the need for 15-20mm lenses, I have only one option..... move to the 20D, since the 15 fisheye becomes a 20 on the MkII. I have not heard enough good things (if any) about the aftermarket, ultra wide angle lenses. So this is the choice I am faced with.
I am still going to wait until the 10-22 is available, and test it before I do it, (a whole week, sheesh!)but I am leaning heavily towards the change. |
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Phil Wever, Photographer
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Montgomery | IL | USA | Posted: 7:54 PM on 09.24.04 |
->> I received my battery grip from Robert's (THANKS JODY) and purchased a kit (complete with throw away lens) that arrived last week also from Roberts.
It made sense to me to spend the extra $100 for the kit and start making money with it, instead of waiting on some list for the body only.
So for those looking around for places with 20D gear. Be sure to help support the folks that help support this forum.
Oh and I unlike everyone else have yet to make an exposure with the darn thing. :-) Of course by the time you read this - that statement will no longer be true...
Cheers,
Phil |
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Patrick Murphy-Racey, Photographer
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Knoxville | TN | USA | Posted: 8:57 PM on 09.24.04 |
| ->> OK, I've now shot more than 3 gigs of images through this little guy... I am still impressed. I didn't mean for it to seem like the 20D is better than a Mark II... No way!!! But it sure doesn't cost $4400 either. In my opinion the 20D is THE best value for the money EVER in a digital SLR body. At $1425 for the body only, it's just an outstanding buy, and one you can respectfully take to ANY assignment even if you work for a magazine. I've shot it now under theatrical lighting, in open shade, at 100, 200, and 400 ISO, with the flash, basketball action in a dark gym with slow glass, outdoor lit portraits in bright sun, etc... It's working like a champ. I'm leaving for Haiti in the afternoon on Saturday, and all I'm taking is the 20D, four batteries, a 420EX, 17-40, and a 75-300 usm zoom... It all fits snug into a butt bag... AWESOME!!! My vote is still for the 20D to be more "pro" than "sumer." One last thing... All day long today, it NEVER jumped off focus like the 10D used to do all the time... Every frame was in focus. |
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Erin Schrad, Photographer, Assistant
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Glen Allen | VA | United States | Posted: 10:03 PM on 09.24.04 |
->> What parameters is everyone shooting with? One of Canon's default sets? Custom settings? Also... Adobe RGB or sRGB?
So far I have just shot using Parameter 2 (0,0,0,0) and I am thinking my post-processing work could be lessened by changing the settings some.
Just curious what others' experiences have been... |
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Colleen Kidd, Photographer
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Calgary | AB | Canada | Posted: 10:11 PM on 09.25.04 |
->> Larry
I have had the same problem with the camera locking up. I am going to ask Galbraith about it when I see him next time. But in the interm, I L-O-V-E the camera. I wasnt going to get one but after playing with it in the store for a bit, I fell in love. I do miss the 1/3 increments of the iso and the 1/500 th sinc for the flash but the camera has been great otherwise.
If I find out anything about the locking up, I will let you know (has anyone else had this problem?).
Colleen (Kidd) De Neve
Calgary Herald |
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Pat Farrington, Photographer
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Jack Howard, Photographer
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Somerville | NJ | USA | Posted: 11:43 PM on 09.25.04 |
->> I shot my first sports assignment with my 20D yesterday. Here's two shots:
http://www.phototalk.net/photos/popup-photo.php?photo=42348
http://www.phototalk.net/photos/popup-photo.php?photo=42347
(I'm a little rusty on football , BTW...)
The AF is very fast, the write speed is amazing coming from a 10D...
I've switched lenses a number of times with the camera both on and off and have had no problems thus far...
I've shot about 700 frames over the past three days and I am very impressed.
However, my vertical grip just arrived today, and it feels kind of cheaply made...the one for the 10D feels more solid and durable...I'm sure I'll get used to it, but I was surprised at the feel of this. |
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