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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
PC-->Apple: A Little Help Making the "Switch?"
Daniel Bersak, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Medford | MA | USA | Posted: 2:21 PM on 06.16.04 |
->> Hey-
It's time for me to get a new laptop and retire my current one to its previous duty of anchoring the QEII. I'm seriously considering the 12" Powerbook... I have been a PC person my whole life - I even interned at Microsoft. It looks, however, like the Apple would be a solid choice from a size vs. weight vs. performance standpoint.
That said, I have a few questions...
1. Am I crazy?
2. No, seriously.
2.5. Is there a PC laptop of a similar price/feature set anyone thinks is a better choice?
3. Are there special deals, codes, secret passwords, etc. that might lower the price? I'm going back to grad school in September, so I could get a student discount, but is there anything else that anyone knows of?
4. Is there a way of legally getting Photoshop that doesn't involve paying over $500 for it? Would it be possible to somehow get an older version and pay the $150 NPPA rate to upgrade it to CS?
5. Any favorite skins, sleeves, or other protective containers? I'm not talking laptop or camera bags - just those tiny things that protect laptops when they're in another bag.
6. Any other "essential" accesories, suggestions, tips, words of advice, caution, etc.?
Thanks for the help!!
--Dan
PS- I don't mean to start a Mac vs. PC war, but dropping $2000 is scary when staring down the barrel of going back to tiny-stipend-ramen-noodle-domestic-beer grad student life. |
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James Prichard, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Owings Mills | MD | USA | Posted: 2:25 PM on 06.16.04 |
| ->> There are great student discounts on Adobe products. You can usually pick all that up at the bookstore. |
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Matthias Krause, Photographer
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Brooklyn | NY | USA | Posted: 2:35 PM on 06.16.04 |
->> Powerbooks are great maschines, my girlfriend just got one and I'm (Dell) green with envy. That said, I don't know how tight your budget is. But if you can scrifice some building quality and live with a not-so-good-keyboard you might what to stay with this PC for almost half the price: http://www.averatec.com/notebooks/3150p.html
Buying an old Photoshop version and upgrade worked for me... |
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Patrick Dundr, Photographer
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Columbus | OH | USA | Posted: 2:36 PM on 06.16.04 |
| ->> I was a PC user most of my life until I bought a Powerbook about 1.5 years ago and never looked back. It was one of the best decisions I have ever made. I love the speed and ease of use of OSX. As for obtaining software, you can go to the campus book store, most Adobe products are only 20% of the retail cost. (That is what it was at OSU last fall for CS.) My $.02 |
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Nic Hume, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Victoria | BC | Canada | Posted: 2:39 PM on 06.16.04 |
->> Dan,
Just in regards to your questions about getting photoshop CS on the cheap. Once you're back in school you'll be eligible for educationally discounted software. I managed to pick up a copy of photoshop CS for $350 canadian (I think that's about $250 or so US...) which is a HUGE drop in price from the normal $800-something. Just check out your campus computer store, or ask the guys in the IT dept. where to go.
A point to note with the educational versions of software is that under Canadian (and I believe US) law, Adobe cannot sell the "same" software for drastically different prices. What that means up here at least is that the educational photoshop CS has had some fonts pulled from the install package to make it all legit. (There's still a very good selection, and I couldn't tell you which ones are available in the full retail version...) I really doubt that that's an issue at all, but I've know a few people who have been a bit surprised by that. Thought it might be worth mentioning...
Also, I'm not sure if this is true in the states or not, but in Canada you can NOT get upgrades for educationally licensed products (not from adobe or microsoft at least) so when it comes time to jump up to the next version you'll need to either buy a completely new education edition, or jump into the mainstream and buy the "full" PSCS... It's worth noting that the educational versions quite often don't cost much more than a full version upgrade, so it's really not a BIG hit, but it's another thing worth knowing.
--Nic |
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Daniel Bersak, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Medford | MA | USA | Posted: 2:49 PM on 06.16.04 |
->> Hey-
Student discounts!! Thanks James, Matthias, Patrick, and Nic - I didn't even think of that for software. I've (thankfully) had all of my software given to me at work for the last few years.
I looked at the Averatec laptops - they're interesting, but all of the reviews say that the keyboards aren't sensitive enough (especially the spacebar), and that they drive people crazy. Seems like a silly piece of product design, but oh well. Thanks though - I've looked at those, and the little Panasonic, Fujitsu, Sony, Dell, and IBM "ultraportables." I'd actually love to have one of those PDA-sized all-in-one machines someone posted about a few months ago, but it looks like they're still vaporware at this point.
Thanks again - I really appreciate the comments so far, and anything anyone else can add.
--Dan |
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Greg Ferguson, Photographer
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Scottsdale | Az | USA | Posted: 2:52 PM on 06.16.04 |
->> Heya Dan,
Here's where I'm coming from ... I was chief technical support for over 1000 Mac users with seven direct support staff at 90+ sites across the Americas. Then I was manager for about 15 people supporting 1000+ PCs and Macs at a high-profile semiconductor factory where downtime wasn't allowed. My staff would be hired as Windows 2000/NT certified, but, dang it, after six months on the job all they'd want to do is work on the Macs. Every one of them said it was because the Macs were easier to support. I'd have to drive them with a whip cursing and snarling to get a PC repaired. (Well, not that bad but they'd grumble.) I've owned both PCs and Macs, but currently own two PowerBooks, including the current 12".
The Macintosh OS used to be unstable. (Of course, at the same time Windows wasn't stable either, and Unix wasn't a "user" operating system.) Apple and Microsoft have done a lot to improve their stability and user experience. IMO, Microsoft hasn't done as good a job - the continued series of virus attacks and need to reload drivers tell me there's some issues still there. Plus, every time I look at installation or troubleshooting directions, the Mac side takes a few steps, and the Windows side takes a page or two. What's that tell you?
Mac OS X is a HUGE improvement over the past OSes Apple put out. I have never used an OS I like as much on any platform (and I'm on PCs and Unix all the time and very fluent in Unix-ese.)
All that said ...
We bought my wife a 12" Powerbook when it came time to "computerize" her. She said over and over she wanted a Windows system, but I had to maintain it so, well, I 'g'nored her. She absolutely loves the Mac now -- a total convert.
I credit that PowerBook and MacOS X for her feelings. The 12" is a blast ... extremely portable, great battery life, and fast as can be.
So, no, you're not crazy. It's a great tool. I haven't seen anything else on the market in that size footprint that'll be as easy to use and maintain.
Aside from our obvious uses as a photographer's tool, it's also the hands-down favorite machine of our kids ... but that's because we feed it a DVD and plug in the headphone jack to the truck's stereo, and away we go when we're working our out-of-town rodeos. It sounds like a frickin' movie theatre in there as we fly down the road. :-) |
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Baron Sekiya, Photographer
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Kailua-Kona | HI | USA | Posted: 3:08 PM on 06.16.04 |
->> For a non-student Photoshop CS I heard some folks are using the Photoshop Elements serial number that came bundled with their digital cameras to take advantage of this offer for a full PSCS for $299
http://www.adobe.com/store/products/special.jhtml?id=catMicrotek&sourcecode...
The offer ends on June 30th. Although it's supposed to be for Microtek scanner uses I heard it works for any Photoshop Elements. |
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Eric Hagen, Photographer
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Denver | CO | USA | Posted: 3:10 PM on 06.16.04 |
->> For the size and weight, my vote would go to a Dell X300 laptop.
But that's just my opinion working in IT and having set up about 20 laptops this month from 4 different vendors (no Macs personally though).
Eric |
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Neemah Aaron, Photographer
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little rock | AR | United States | Posted: 3:23 PM on 06.16.04 |
->> I recently bought a 15 inch powerbook and love it (after using PC's). I would NEVER think of returning.
Just be sure not to purchase one online, talk to an Apple Rep. You can get all sorts of discounts by talking to someone, just do a bit of bargaining.
Also I would look at the 12 & 15 in. in person. I originally thought a 12 would be good, but after looking at it in person, it was just too small. I like the wide screen when working in Photoshop (so you can have all the palettes open and still easily view a horizontal photo) and when running multiple applications (you can still see the other programs in the background, making it easy to jump back and forth) |
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Kevin Klaus, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Tucson | AZ | USA | Posted: 3:37 PM on 06.16.04 |
| ->> I've used a PC for my entire life and I would never switch over to Apple. I have had experience with their IMac's, G3, G4, and G5 and think that they are all unstable and don't perform the way that I would like. As far as laptops are concerned, people seem to like the IBook, but I don't. I'm very used to shortcut keys all throughout the Windows system, in Photoshop, Photo Mechanic, Word and other programs, and half of these functions have no equivalent Apple shortcuts. Good luck with your investment. Hope you are happy with whichever you choose. |
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Thad Parsons, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 3:44 PM on 06.16.04 |
->> Apple also has a student discounts available. I got my computer through the program and it saved me 10% on the total package.
You can even get an iPod with a student discount ... gotta love the student discount!
When my mom went to a Photoshop class, they told her to buy an old version on eBay and then upgrade to the new version. To me, it sounds a little iffy... Personally, I went with the Edu discount. |
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andy kuno, Photographer
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san francisco | CA | usa | Posted: 4:16 PM on 06.16.04 |
->> check out www.radtech.us
they carry real good protective sleeves and screen protectors. if you feel the need for a wireless bluetooth mouse, you can find one there as well.
my 2 yen... |
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Patrick Collins, Photographer
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Los Altos | CA | United States | Posted: 4:31 PM on 06.16.04 |
->> Microsoft even offers a Student/Teacher discount on their Office 2004 Suite for the Mac.
Retail Price: $399.95
Student Price: $149.95
You can order it straight from Apple's website. http://apple.com
Patrick |
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Guy Rhodes, Student/Intern, Photographer
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East Chicago | IN | USA | Posted: 4:54 PM on 06.16.04 |
->> "Although it's supposed to be for Microtek scanner uses I heard it works for any Photoshop Elements."
Slightly OT: I purchased Photoshop CS through the Microtek promotion using the 'Elements CD that came with my 10D. No Microtek scanners here! :)
Not OT: I purchased my G5 late last year with my student discount, it really helps! |
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Bob Stanton, Photographer
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Palo Alto | CA | United States | Posted: 5:09 PM on 06.16.04 |
| ->> i worked at apple for 6yrs then intel for 5yrs. so am familiar with both. in our house we use the macs for most everything. i not a zealot one way or the other, and look at it as just another tool. the microsoft platform is much better at price performance, no matter how you cut it---more ghz, cheaper graphics and so on--but what do expect, they have 96% of the mkt. however, the mac tends to be less virus prone (our windows machine gets 'sick' alot) and easier to use. there is certain 'feel' to the mac that is more friendly. just be prepared to be frustrated once in awhile about lack of certain software. for photo stuff, adobe, fetch and so on work great. microsoft is always a generation behind on updating the office suite (word, pwr point, excel) on the mac, which is also a pain, but shouldn't stop you. apple stores seem to be everywhere, which is nice if you need help. |
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Steven E. Frischling, Photographer
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Amherst | MA | USA | Posted: 5:12 PM on 06.16.04 |
->> Dan:
I saw you eyeing my laptop last season, and at the Same Sex Weddings.....you know you want a Mac.
Come to the Light!!! |
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Darron R. Silva, Photographer
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Naples | FL | USA | Posted: 5:16 PM on 06.16.04 |
->> Daniel:
You can find great deals on the powerbook 12" - check out dealmac.com for a list of current deals. They just listed a 12" powerbook for $999 - it's a refurb from Apple - but it carries the same warranty as a new model. You can find them at the apple store online, under the 'special deals' section. |
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Jeff Stanton, Photographer
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Tucson | AZ | USA | Posted: 6:24 PM on 06.16.04 |
| ->> Daniel ... I would highly recommend a larger screen, perhaps the 14 inch ibook or the 15 inch Powerbook. To me, the 12 inch screen is just too small, IMHO. I just bought a iBook G4 1ghz and I love this machine. It has not crashed on me, is blazing fast, lightweight and the 14 inch screen is crisp, clear and large. |
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Greg Ferguson, Photographer
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Scottsdale | Az | USA | Posted: 7:24 PM on 06.16.04 |
->> I'll second Jeff's suggestion on the 15" vs. the 12" if you can afford it.
The extra screen space of the 15" helps in Photoshop, but judicious toggling of the menus on/off on the 12" makes it pretty usable for editing. |
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Kevin M. Cox, Photographer, Assistant
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Stafford (Houston) | TX | US | Posted: 7:42 PM on 06.16.04 |
->> 1: No
2: No, really.
2.5: I compared a 12" Dell model with the 12" PB before I bought and the Dell was a few $100 more for comparable features. (Although I was pretty set on the PB anyways...)
3 & 4: Educational discounts are a wonderful thing!
5: From the Newsletter (the SleeveCase): http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/608 (Any updated recommendations Bert?)
6: I used a 15" TiBook for a year and just recently purchased a new 12" PowerBook. The choice between 12/15 is personal preference. Check them out in person if you can and see which you like better. While the 15" was nice when I had it, I went with the 12" now because it is just so much more portable. For me the mobility is more important then the lost screen space.
My primary desktop at home is still a WinXP machine, but I really like having the PowerBook for use on the road and assignments. I find it easy to switch back and forth, some things I just like better on the PC. Hope this helps. |
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Bob Stanton, Photographer
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Palo Alto | CA | United States | Posted: 10:00 PM on 06.16.04 |
| ->> 12 vs 15" macs. I traveled in my prior job about 50% of the time. the 12" wins big time if you are a road warrior--smaller battery (cause you will need at least two), easier to pull out for security, lighter, and fits on a coach table to watch a movie or do work. the 15" wins, IMHO, if you mostly drive to your jobs--as noted above,it is easier to edit on and a viable desktop unit (athough you can get an external keyboard and larger screen for the 12 and achieve the same thing.) like kevin says, check 'em out--hang out at an apple store and bring photoshop up and play with their demo iPhoto shots and see which you really like. oh, i have used mine in mac hostile environments around the world, like large venue presentations formats where techs only want PC's hooked in--the mac works really well once you get used to formating the output screens, but it does freak out the techs. |
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Daniel Bersak, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Medford | MA | USA | Posted: 12:20 AM on 06.17.04 |
->> Hey-
Thanks a million for all of the input - I really, really appreciate it!! I think I'm going to go with the 12" Powerbook. I have a Windows desktop with a decent monitor where I can sit and edit to my heart's content, so the laptop is only for working on the road (quick edits, transmitting, etc.). The small screen doesn't bother me - part of my research at Microsoft involved optimizing program interface for PDAs, so I'm used to uber-small displays. 12" is comparatively gargantuan. :-) Plus, as a friend pointed out, Macs hold their value so if I really hate it I can sell it and not lose too much. I think I even have a spare KVM switch floating around, so I'll be able to easily pipe the Mac's output through the monitor.
Thanks again for everything. If there are any other suggestions on what to do once I get the thing, or cool gadgets/accessories, I'm all ears. I'm definitely ordering one of those Radtech cases...
--Dan |
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Greg Ferguson, Photographer
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Scottsdale | Az | USA | Posted: 12:24 AM on 06.17.04 |
->> Having the Windows desktop might work well for you also, if you ever decide you want lots of server space. Pile on some drives to the desktop system, and then share them, either via a FTP server, or personal sharing in Windows.
The Mac will connect to either transport. |
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Steven E. Frischling, Photographer
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Amherst | MA | USA | Posted: 12:25 AM on 06.17.04 |
->> Dan
Look into the wireless BlueTooth mouse, or at least an external mouse....but the wireless Bluetooth one rocks) with the 12" PowerBook. I love t he 12" screen. I have a 14" PB G3 Pismo,which is awsome, and a Dell Latitude C600 which is great (well except it runs Windows), but I love the size of the 12" screen. I have no problem quickly editing on the screen, and traveling with this laptop is a dream. Personally I just find the 15" to big. For heavy work loads, I have a 21" monitor on my G4 tower, and 19" screen on my G4 eMac.
The only complaint I ever had was the size of the palm rest, which is obviously small due to the size of the machine. This is why I love the external mouse, it makes this easier........but you're one of them MIT engineers, you knew that (Have Peter build you a super processor out in Silicon Valley!) |
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Jason Nix, Photographer, Student/Intern
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Bowling Green | KY | United States | Posted: 6:45 AM on 06.17.04 |
| ->> I made the switch last September, I got a 867mhz 15" Powerbook G4 with the Combo Drive. It really wasn't that hard of a transition. Going from XP to OSX was actually better than Windows ME to XP. Now that I have a Mac I'll never go back to a PC. If you order a Mac, don't make the mistake like I did, go ahead and get the Airport Card... I just got one, and I don't know how I ever lived without it. |
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Daniel Bersak, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Medford | MA | USA | Posted: 12:54 PM on 06.17.04 |
->> Hey-
Thanks again to everyone for all of the info! Steve - hopefully Peter will get on that. :-) That's actually one of the reasons I started looking at Apple. There are no high end ultraportables that use AMD chips, and the Intels are too expensive for the lackluster performance.
Anyway, thanks again! If there are other cool Mac things, please let me know.
--Dan |
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Gil Batzri, Photographer
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Oakland | CA | USA | Posted: 3:18 PM on 06.17.04 |
->> I won't comment on Mac vs. PC thing. That has been beat to death.
I CAN comment on 12" to 15"
I went from a 13" to a 15" laptop and the big boy is a BEAR. That extra couple/few pounds makes it MUCH heavier to lug when travelling.
Think hard on that before you make your choice.
I LOVE the 1600x1200 screen, but that extra 3lbs I could do without.
(I went from a Latitude CPI-A to a c810) |
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Nelson Antoine, Photographer
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São Paulo | SP | Brazil | Posted: 4:25 PM on 06.17.04 |
| ->> i have a 15'' inch powerbook, and daniel, is perfect in travel/portability and is the perfect space for work, dont be scared about the size 15', apple notebooks is very fine, little weight etc.! i think the 12' is very small for working with pictures, but anyway..you can buy some apple display and plug in your PB for use at home..! |
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