| Sign in: |
| Members log in here with your user name and password to access the your admin page and other special features. |
|
|
|
|
|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Brooks Scandal Uncovered
Liane Rebeka Harrison, Student/Intern
 |
Santa Barbara | CA | USA | Posted: 12:15 AM on 12.04.03 |
->> I thought the guy who told me I was a "rich brat, lacking any photographic qualities, with an overpriced education" would be intrested in Brooks' new situation.
Today's front page of the Newspress ran an article exposing allegations of scandal and freud at Brooks Institute of Photography.
Our ex-registrar, Cam, a sweet and innocent woman claims she resigned after academic officers asked her to alter student's files and forge professor's signatures to impress the accredidation officers while they were here for an inspection. Without accredidation, Brooks recieves no federal loans and grants because we are a private school.
Cam also accused Brooks of raising tuition without reason, enrolling unqualitifed students to gain profit for the new owners, CEC. Career Education Corp. and investors, making Brooks the largest growing private school in the nation. This is nothing new, I think most of us knew this, you can tell by the lack of space, supplies, overloaded classes, and the behavior and academic work that is produced from some of the lower division students.
One day I was in the registrar's office inquiring about my garduation date, and a strange woman sitting behind a desk mentioned something very personal to me that only, what I thought 'official office' personnel was supposed to know. I felt somewhat violated that this strange woman knew all of my personal business, and she had the guts to actually say something to me in front of other students. I was so embarrassed!
This leads me to believe that our files are hanging out to dry and that they are available to almost, if not all faculty, staff, and any other average joe.
My question is what's next for the students and faculty? There was talk in the article of possible actions if the allogations are true, cutting off loans and grants, closing the school, severe fines. Without loans and grants, I don't think many will be able to attend. I know I wouldn't. Then Brooks will lose major funds to pay our teachers, and buy supplies.
What about our student files? What if they have been tapmered with? I'd like to go to grad school, who wants a student with a doubtful record?
Why couldn't they have upped my grade point avarage a little?
Thanx for letting me gossip. I figured since the paper ran the article, why wouldn't our fellow SS members also be intrested? I need some reassurance that the stab to my back isn't leathal.
LAnO:) |
|
Marc F. Henning, Photographer
 |
Bentonville | AR | USA | Posted: 9:34 AM on 12.04.03 |
->> "allegations of scandal and freud"........giggle!!! (couldn't resist!)
interesting situation going on at brooks. i wonder how this will play out?
marc |
|
Eric Isaacs, Photographer, Student/Intern
 |
Santa Barbara | CA | USA | Posted: 9:56 AM on 12.04.03 |
->> "enrolling unqualitifed students to gain profit for the new owners"
Ah, the power of spellcheck :-) Hopefully things will level out and allow them to focus on education instead of allegation. |
|
Michael Granse, Photographer
 |
Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 9:58 AM on 12.04.03 |
| ->> I have been accused of Freud a few times too. That's what I get for having majored in psychology. Excuse me while I go wrestle with my Id and Super Ego! |
|
John Kavouris, Photographer
|
Donald Meyerson, Photographer
 |
Waco | TX | USA | Posted: 11:00 AM on 12.04.03 |
| ->> I was accepted to Brooks several years ago after talking to two different admissions officers and never once did I show my portfolio to anyone nor was I ever asked to show it. I thought that was rather odd considering I was applying to one of the "most reputable" photography schools around. You would think that they might be a little more selective of their students, but in the end I decided to hang out in Waco and finish my BS degree. Brooks just rubbed me the wrong way, but the school is very beautiful and was a cool place to visit. Reminded me of a photographer's disneyland. Just my two cents... |
|
Robert Longhitano, Photographer
 |
North Wales | PA | USA | Posted: 12:04 PM on 12.04.03 |
| ->> Wow, it will be interesting to see how this turns out. I only know Brooks by the reputation of it staff and former students, it's a shame that the "bean counter" are having an effect on this well respected intuition. |
|
Liane Rebeka Harrison, Student/Intern
|
Santa Barbara | CA | USA | Posted: 1:03 PM on 12.04.03 |
->> I agree, I wonder what's going to happen? I checked my spelling a few times, sorry.
I applied in May of 2000 and they didn't want to let me in because they were looking at my HS records and not my college records, then I didn't have to show a portfolio.
Some students are quite embarrassed about the situation, I'm not really sure why, they have nothing to do with the actions of the administration. Hopefully something good will come out of all of this. I just can't believe that our registrar had the guts to go completely public with the allegations. They're supposed to be in DC today. |
|
Mike McLaughlin, Photographer
|
Neptune City | NJ | USA | Posted: 1:08 PM on 12.04.03 |
| ->> Robert - My intuition tells me you meant institution ;) Sorry, couldn't resist it! |
|
Chris Nowling, Photographer
|
Santa Barbara | CA | USA | Posted: 1:34 PM on 12.04.03 |
->> I think it's great that people have come out and exposed this wrong doing. I gave that school more money then I care to admit and back in summer I dropped out b/c the place had become a haven for kids who didn't really care about photography but thought it would be a great place to get a degree on daddy's dime without having to write a lot of papers and do homework. That was due in large part to the lax admissions policies implemented by CEC and it has truly affected the quality of the education received and the work coming out of the school.
I maintain relationships with some instructors and most of them were quite weary of CEC from the get go.
For those thinking of going to Brooks, I suggest reconsidering or at least waiting till this figures it self out. The school is an easy sell and admissions knows it. You get a kid and their parents into santa barbara and you can sell them just about anything, the place is paradise. The parents feel safe with their kid in such a nice town and the school has a great rep.
I think you will hear more allegations of wrong doing before this ends. The only reason more admin and faculty haven't gone pblic is fear of losing jobs and tarnishing reputations. |
|
Chris Nowling, Photographer
|
Santa Barbara | CA | USA | Posted: 2:16 PM on 12.04.03 |
->> Good one, Keith...that is the perspective that I became used to at Brooks. Look at the 52 week range of that stock 18-56, a run up like that is unusual for a company in the education sector without providing guidance for increased profitability. How do you increase profits? Increase enrollment, raise tuition, forge a few documents to retain accredited status for financial aid, handout loans to kids who don't know any better...and voila, increased profitablity. And, don't forget to add the federal investigation.
The stock is taking a beating the last two days, down over 40% on huge volume. Could be a great entry point, if all this turns out to be false allegations. I'll pass, but thank you. |
|
Baron Sekiya, Photographer
 |
Kailua-Kona | HI | USA | Posted: 3:05 PM on 12.04.03 |
->> A statement by Brooks:
Brooks Institute of Photography is aware of false accusations being made about the school by Cam Van Wingerden, a disgruntled former employee. We have conducted a thorough investigation of allegations made by Ms. Van Wingerden and determined they are false, malicious and possibly libelous.
Brooks Institute of Photography is considered a world leader in professional photographic education. For more than 58 years we have set the standard for academic excellence in professional photographic education and we are known throughout the world for the premier education we provide. |
|
Michael Granse, Photographer
|
Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 3:18 PM on 12.04.03 |
->> Careful with that "entry point." If the stock is down 40% on large volume as a result of recent events, you can bet that MOST people holding the stock are getting itchy trigger fingers on the "sell" button. The price is down on a POTENTIAL problem with the company, and if this is revealed to be a FACTUAL problem with the company then I wouldn't count on the bad news being "priced in" at current levels. Exploiting the resulting volitility via swing trades (quick ones, hold for 30 minutes or maybe even less) might be the way to play this one. OR, if you think it's REALY going to crash let it regain a bit more of its lost 40% and then take some shares short. If the "rumors" prove true, the downside trade on this one could be SWEET!
Of course, the price is going to fly UPWARD if the company announces that all is well and there were no negative findings. Some corporations have INSTANT email alerts that you can sign up for (these are free) on their website that will alert you the MOMENT they make a press release. Have these sent to your cell phone's email browser so you will know IMMEDIATELY. If the news is GOOD you should be able to buy in quick enough to catch at least SOME of the price recovery (remember that it takes more than a 40% increase to offset a 40% loss, so we are talking about a NICE ride if it DOES "pop" for you). The BEST thing about this is that if there is no news or BAD NEWS you haven't risked a THING by NOT buying, and you can be ready to catch a "dead cat bounce" if the price falls to a ridiculously low point or if you are VERY fast (not to mention very LUCKY) you MIGHT even be able to take some shares short for the trip down.
World Com was FUN! I bought 60,000 shares at .06 per share just minutes before a press conference that Bloomberg TV's anchors speculated would be a reasurance to shareholders. It WAS, and the stock closed at over .25 by the following day. Over the next few days it traded as high as .30 and as low as .13 or so.
As far as MACD, Bollinger Bands, and other sources of technical analysis are concerned they are of little value when it comes to trading an issue that is currently driven by news events. Set the charts aside and ask yourself what the other traders are FEELING (fear/greed) as opposed to what the charts may be causing them to THINK. This will be a more useful strategy if you DO decide to buy in.
EDSN is a good education stock to study (NOT buy, but LOOK AT IT) for price response to corporate news releases. EDSN had a steady run of very good AND very bad news for about a year and created some interesting price swings.
Have fun!! |
|
Chris Nowling, Photographer
|
Santa Barbara | CA | USA | Posted: 3:41 PM on 12.04.03 |
->> Great analysis, Mike! I work with an advisor who is more of a "buy & hold", get in when the market dips or crashes, kind of guy. So my investment tendencies are to look for sharp decreases in price and stocks that are undervalued.
It didn't even cross my mind to think of selling short. Probably b/c I don't have the margin to do it.
It'll be interesting to see this situation plays out in the market. |
|
Greg Haerling, Student/Intern
|
Santa Barbara | CA | U.S.A. | Posted: 8:07 AM on 12.08.03 |
| ->> Stock Schmock, go to this website and all of your "Brooks" questions will be answered. http://www.betaiotapi.com |
|
Allan Campbell, Photographer, Assistant
 |
Salem (Portland) | OR | USA | Posted: 9:43 AM on 12.08.03 |
->> All of you unhappy Brookies could transfer to the better California photoschool http://www.artcenter.edu/
Sorry I couldn't resist the Brooks Bashing, being an Art Center Alumni. |
|
G.J. McCarthy, Photographer
|
Columbia | MO | USA | Posted: 12:21 PM on 01.28.07 |
->> Resurrecting a terribly old thread here -- and certainly not wanting to stir the pot ...
http://tinyurl.com/39dg25
Good read from yesterday's Ventura County Star that's a sort of update on the goings on at Brooks.
And here's a blog post from SJSU journalism prof Dennis Dunleavy:
http://tinyurl.com/39kppu
References the aforementioned article, and provides additional info and musings. Also an interesting read. Thanks to 'Cross da Boss' and Sean Cayton for the links and info.
Cheers,
- gerry - |
|
Darren Whitley, Photographer
 |
Maryville | MO | USA | Posted: 12:51 PM on 01.28.07 |
->> There's a good chance someone in the registrar's office has violated Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA). This federal law guarantee a student's right to privacy.
Under FERPA, your parents may call the school to inquire about your academic standing, but the school is required not to divuldge anything. They can't even tell your parents if you're going to class.
FMI
http://www.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/ferpa/index.html |
|
Bob Croslin, Photographer
|
St. Petersburg | FL | USA | Posted: 1:21 PM on 01.28.07 |
->> Career Education Corp. owns Brooks and they're the same company that operates the International Academy of Design & Technology campuses around the country. There's a campus in Tampa and and the couple of photography students I've spoken to who've graduated from the program say their degree is worthless. My guess is that the problems at Brooks are probably more symptomatic of the publicly traded company that owns Brooks than the faculty themselves. I wonder if RIT which has similiar sky-high private tuition costs is also feeling heat.
Furthermore, I'm assuming Brooks is under the microscope because of the cost of tuition and not the fact that they've not kept up with the times. Many college photo-j programs have also been caught with their pants down when it comes to keeping up with the state of the newspaper business. |
|
Maxwell Yedor, Student/Intern, Photographer
 |
Ventura | CA | USA | Posted: 2:05 PM on 01.28.07 |
->> Gerry, there is actually a lot more hapening at Brooks that even that. One of the big problems that I still see is that it is virtually impossible for students such as myself to figure out what's going on at school. Whe I came back from winter break there were rumors of up to 10 teachers being laid-off and several front office personel either being fired or quiting. Unfortunatly we have a terrible website, and no email updates or press releases that tell us the facts of what's been going on, so rumors run rampant and things get blown out of proportion, then the Star gets wind of it and starts talking to students about it. Of course interveiwing students about faculty lay-offs when they do not know that facts themselfs seems pointless, but they have nobody else to talk to, so by atempting to keep a clean reutation by not discussing the bad things that happen at Brooks, the administration virtually garuntees that their reputation is worse than what it should be. This time the Star has chosen to publish a story only about the managerial aspects and leave out the faculty chnages, a smart move, as I don't beleive anybody outside of a select few administrators know who all the situation effects, and anybody the Star could have talked to is making no more than an educated guess at best.
With that said, there is a new student government being formed. Students started the push for a government years ago, but with recent events this push went into overdrive. President Strick has held open meatings with students and teachers to listen to the concerns they have, wich I see as a very positive step. The group of students spearheading the creation of a student cousel has started a discussion forum, BIPSC.org, the forums are in their infancy and having very few members don't contain an abundance of information, however if you read through the "News" section you can start to get a better idea of what's happening at Brooks.
I don't feel comfortable talking about specifics of what's been hapening, as I do not know all, or in some cases any, of the facts. I know of two administrators who are no longer working at Brooks, I also noticed a few familiar faces missing in the front office, and I know one of the teachers who has apearently had lost his job, but it now looks as though he will be returning. I am also looking into weather or not Brooks has broken tuition contracts by recently increasing tuition rates for currently enrolled students. Overall I feel that Brooks is providing me with a decent education, but the education the teachers provide that goes above and beyond the curriculum is outstanding, now we just need to work on getting that extraeous information included with the standard curriculum and a little more openness about the administrative descisions and Brooks would be well on it's way back to being the top photography school in the nation. |
|
Jason Fritz, Student/Intern
 |
San Francisco | CA | USA | Posted: 2:45 PM on 01.28.07 |
->> I'll never understand why people will spend 30,000 dollars a year to prepare themselves for a job in photojournalism that will pay that about the same.
While San Francisco State's photojournalism program has its issues too, I will leave there this may just 30,000 dollars in debt, after 5 years there.
Also, I will be graduating with a degree in journalism from an accredited university. |
|
Armando Solares, Photographer
 |
Englewood | FL | USA | Posted: 4:38 PM on 01.28.07 |
->> "Some students report incurring debt of more than $100,000 to earn a three-year degree at Brooks. The 45 full-time working graduates of Brooks' 2003 class made an average of $26,000 a year, according to the 2005 report."
This is like indenture servitude. No one in debt $100,000 will ever be able to pay that debt, making $26,000, before taxes and living expenses.
I have never understood why people pay such astronomical amounts to get an education that will lead them into industries that pay very little.
I wonder where those 45 full-time working graduates are working? Are they in photojournalism or commercial photography or freelance?
It's a scary world out there. Do your homework and don't let anyone sell you on a castle in the sky. |
|
Preston Mack, Photographer
 |
Orlando | FL | USA | Posted: 4:49 PM on 01.28.07 |
->> If you have $100K in debt you should be doctor!!!
Simply put, you do not NEED a degree in photography. You either have talent , or you do not. Getting real life experience and assisting will often times be more than enough of an education in photography to get started. |
|
Wendi Kaminski, Photographer, Assistant
|
La Mirada | CA | USA | Posted: 1:01 AM on 01.29.07 |
->> I finished my time at Brooks last March ('06) without actually graduating. Brooks would not take two of my undergrad g.e. classes from my previous B.S. degree in business saying that I had to retake them under there guidelines of the course catalog. For heaven's sakes it was a math and english 101 class. How different can that be across the board of classes??? I was angry that they wanted me to spend an additional term and spend another $5k on two ge classes. I was floored. So I walked out 2 classes short of a "PJ" degree. Now that i am working in my field, I am glad that i didn't spend the $5k to say I have a PJ degree. I agree with Preston when he wrote, "Simply put, you do not NEED a degree in photography. You either have talent, or you do not..." however, I did learn a great deal that I can attribute my career now with what I did learn from BIP.
As for the admin process getting into BIP, I wasn't required to do a portfolio, only an over the phone interview to be accepted into the school. Get this....this what the admissions rep told me after telling me I was accepted and in addition to BIP being the foremost leader of PJ and Photography. "Once you have finished your degree here at BIP you'll be earning enough money at graduation to buy a Benz with that 6 figure salary you'll be making. I (admissions rep) say that because here is a list of all the companies that hire our student right out of school." That list included Kodak, National Geo and some others that I can't remember right now. I do have to admit I was sold on the pitch that the admissions rep told me about the reputation of the school, but I was a bit leary of the salary and job promises. I knew better to know that those types of promises don't hold water in the business industry. You can't count on someone to hand that kind of wealth to you on a platter at graduation. You have to earn it, and that takes time.
I am sad to hear that BIP is in hot water again. I truly believe that the instructors have all the right intentions for their students. They give their all to those of us who wanted to glean from their knowledge in their specific fields. Two in particular (Cooper and Stern) will always have my respect because they had the hutzpah to be straight with me and my work. They both encouraged me and guided me through what I thought was a good program even though it was in it's second year and had some bugs to work out. It's the CEC's greed that is going to bring down the rep of this school. |
|
Dave Amorde, Photographer
 |
Lake Forest | CA | USA | Posted: 12:54 PM on 01.29.07 |
->> How can you enroll an "unqualified" student, assuming they have a G.E.D. or high school diploma? I wouldn't expect a visual arts school to demand a portfolio for admission any more than I would expect an engineering school to demand to see some of your source code or schematics. Isn't that you're going to the school to learn?
As for whether or not you "need" a PJ degree - or any other degree, for that matter - depends on how you define "need". Obviously Bill Gates did alright without one, and the world is full of successful entrepreneurs who have no formal training in the traditional sense.
Having said that, it is also true that, all other things being equal, someone with a quality education has a much better chance of getting the job - ANY job - than someone of equal talent but lesser formal training.
Personally, I feel that the value of a college education goes far beyond getting that first job. There are so many life skills learned, personal networks established, personal pride received, that getting a college diploma is "worth it" to many people, regardless of whether or not they end up working in their field of training. While I know of some people who wish they hadn't gotten so far into debt to get their education, I have never met anyone who said "I wish I had never gone to college."
In closing, what you get out of college largely depends on what you put into it, and that is true whether you go to Brooks, MIT, or your local community college. Now that I think about it, some of my favorite classes, professors, and life lessons learned came from my community college, at a price (back then) of $6 per unit. Not a bad deal.
Don't let the distractions at Brooks' corporate level interfere with your in-class education, or poison your desire to go to college at all. If you (or your parents) can afford it, especially if there are scholarship opportunities available to you, grab that brass ring and run with it. The ability to do so only gets harder as you get older. |
|
Ramsay de Give, Student/Intern, Photographer
|
Ventura | CA | USA | Posted: 1:03 PM on 01.29.07 |
->> Which journalism student -- in their right mind -- would believe an admissions rep. that promises six figures upon graduation? Any answers? This shouldn't have been in the news. It is ridiculous. Most of the negative publicity folks know about spawns from this type of complaint, and it does hurt Brooks. WOW! Being lured into a false sense of grandeur upon graduation...sounds more like an athlete being guaranteed a top round draft pick. Sorry journalism students, this ISN'T you.
Education can help you get a job. A degree can help you get a job. I recently read an article from the NY Times, A Surprising Secret to a Long Life: Stay in School. "Finding that education is the most significant social factor linked to longevity; researchers say primacy of education as life span factor is remarkable and that few extra years of school are associated with longer life and markedly improved health decades later." School is cool.
I came to Brooks Institute of Photography with a limited (I’ll emphasize that) understanding of technical issues. I found a multitude of teachers, advisors, and peers that helped me advance. I had an open mind to employ my creativity. The two have evened out after two years. I feel quite happy about my time sent at Brooks. The teachers kick ass, hands down, and no doubt about it.
In the same breath, I've made the decision to leave Brooks after spending two -- hard and worthwhile -- years studying there. I am headed up to San Francisco State University. I want to study writing, and continue work in the field of multimedia production. I'll be in debt, though not in the six-figure range.
I've found that I could start @ SFSU ~> finish @ SFSU, for about the same price that my last year at Brooks would cost. Can’t beat that, and this means that I'll continue my education. |
|
Jason Fritz, Student/Intern
|
San Francisco | CA | USA | Posted: 2:25 PM on 01.29.07 |
->> Ramsay,
The writing part of SF State's journalism department has some of the most amazing and inspiring instructors I've ever had. Yvonne Daley, Venise Wagner and Austin Long-Scott just to name a few. Good luck there. They just got a new multimedia teacher, although I don't know anything about this new person. The Old multimedia teacher was great, but he ended up taking the position of wed editor of The New York Times.
Let me know if you have any questions about the program. |
|
Rafael Agustin Delgado, Student/Intern, Assistant
 |
Pasadena | Ca | USA | Posted: 2:36 PM on 01.29.07 |
->> Pasadena City College may not be Brooks, Art Center, or other Art Schools but at 22 dollars a unit, it sure is hard to beat for the quality of professors found here. Both traditional and digital classes are great for developing those that are seriously interested in making this more than a hobby. The eqipment may be dated but the princip[les are the same. It is the willingness to learn and abiltiy to provide an enviroment to develop is what matters most.
As for success, it will always be the individual willingness to succeed. No degree in any field of study in the world will make a career. The individual has to make the step into putting that piece of paper to use. |
|
Jason Fritz, Student/Intern
|
San Francisco | CA | USA | Posted: 7:16 PM on 01.29.07 |
->> With all the negative attention Brooks photojournalism program is receiving, I think they are wise to listen to the students’ demands, or they will have to face the reality of dwindling enrollment numbers. In fact, a mass student refusal to enroll in classes would probably lead the administration to bend and seek out student input.
The more this is played up within the photography/photojournalism community, the more likelihood that Brooks will fear the negative attention, and how it will effect their bottom-line, forcing them to treat the students who or forking over obscene amounts of money for the 'privilege' of going there.
I wish everyone down there in Venteezy good luck. All the students I met down there during the Sportsshooter workshop were amazing. And even though you are our Southern California rivals, I am hoping for the best in your struggle. |
|
Allan Campbell, Photographer, Assistant
|
Lake Oswego (Portland) | OR | | Posted: 7:28 PM on 01.29.07 |
->> Rafael,
Five words for you Brooks students...... Art Center College of Design...
The Orange Dot rocks :)
I do hope things work out for Brooks.... |
|
Sean D. Elliot, Photographer
 |
Norwich | CT | USA | Posted: 8:50 PM on 01.29.07 |
->> This is all really fascinating, but ignores one fundamental fact, every single institution out there is training photojournalists for jobs that don't exist. This has been true for decades. Of my small graduating class from Boston University in 1992 there are only a few of us still in the field.
One of the primary reasons why the freelance market is such crap today is because of the glut of skilled photographers desperately trying to make a living in the business.
Brooks is only one of the many programs churning out dozens of graduates to apply for the meager few jobs available. |
|
Ramsay de Give, Student/Intern, Photographer
|
Ventura | CA | USA | Posted: 9:34 PM on 01.29.07 |
| ->> I love photography. I love telling stories. Not until I'm down and out, on the curb, and out of a roof over my head, will I stop to reconsider my photographic path. The meager amount of jobs won't stop me. Neither will somebody telling me that my choice of education was skewed. It's always the same -- it's always 'greener'. I focus on how much I love this profession, and how badly I want this... It'll get me through |
|
Walter Calahan, Photographer
|
Westminster | MD | USA | Posted: 9:52 PM on 01.29.07 |
| ->> Round up the usual suspects. |
|
Lucas Jackson, Photographer
|
New York | NY | USA | Posted: 10:11 PM on 01.29.07 |
| ->> Brooks is a tool, one of many, not a solution. Hard work and dedication will always have a place in the visual world. Those who say there is no future are not going to have a part in it. |
|
Fj Hughes, Photographer, Assistant
 |
Baltimore | MD | USA | Posted: 1:22 PM on 01.30.07 |
| ->> It would be interesting to know the percentage of people with photography degrees who work in photography as compared to other fields. I tried to goole some info but gave up. I believe the average of people who work in their degree field in general is low. I found a couple listed at 20 to 30 percent and they seemed to be bragging. |
|
Shawn Lynch, Photographer, Assistant
 |
Walpole | MA | USA | Posted: 1:48 PM on 01.30.07 |
->> Fj,
That could maybe be our NEXT poll question. I saw the other thread about American photography magazines that turned into a poll, so why not this one? |
|
David Brooks, Photographer
 |
San Diego | CA | USA | Posted: 2:00 PM on 01.30.07 |
| ->> As frustrated as I am with CEC and by extension with Brooks concerning costs, I am extremely pleased with my education. Yes it was over-priced, but so are homes in California and yet there is still a demand. I agree with the criticism of Brooks in regards to price, coupled with the low career prospects in this industry; newspapers, 'zines and the like- our hope to pay-off that massive Brookie debt is low. I'm certain other schools can give you the same book learnin'for a lower price. But I went to Brooks because I wanted to, I wanted a career at my hometown paper and thought this would jump start that dream. No one had to convince me and no one did. I knew the cost was high, but put off the thought of paying those loans back to a time that seemed so far away...graduation. Anyone that thinks Brooks is just a name without substance, try taking Lighting Theory or Digital Video 3, the DEDICATED VJ students coming out of Brooks are very good. For the past few years, Brooks has been well represented in CPOY...and former students are employed at the SD Union-Tribune, Miami Herald and Reuters to name a few...but I gotta get back to work, I've got a few loans to pay. |
|
Ron Erdrich, Photographer
 |
Abilene | TX | USA | Posted: 2:13 PM on 01.30.07 |
->> Getting educated should be looked at like any other consumer experience - you need to shop around.
I thought about Brooks many years ago but knew I couldn't afford it and really wasn't sure they had what I was looking for in the first place. Instead, I attended Orange Coast College.
That was probably one of the best educational experiences that I ever had. It was inexpensive and crammed with valuable lessons, knowledgeable instructors, and provided me with the kind of incredible basics that my classmates at MU later on never got to have.
I chose the University of Missouri School of Journalism based on research. One thing I didn't do was rely on the school to tell me how good they were. After all, it's in the school's interest to have me attend no matter how good or bad the institution might be. Word of mouth can be a clearer indication of worth than advertising.
So I asked around. The people I asked worked at places like the L.A. Times, the Orange County Register and National Geographic. I asked them what they thought was a worthy school for me to attend and also where did they and those they knew attend school.
Missouri was at or near the top of their list and even though I was an out-of-state resident for my first year, it was still way cheaper than attending Brooks or some other photography school of that ilk. Yeah, moving away from my home in California wasn't at the top of my list, but you've got to break some eggs if you want to make an omelet.
Many people that I run into in the journalism world, the ones who are serious, went to serious schools. That's Western Kentucky, MU, KU, Northwestern, Syracuse, Montana, SJSU, etc. That's not saying that everyone who graduated from those programs stayed in journalism, but those that do work in the field typically hail from someplace with a track record. Brooks offers some nice looking things, but based upon this thread and other reports, I would say their track record leaves something to be desired.
-Ron- |
|
Eric Thayer, Photographer
 |
New York | NY | USA | Posted: 3:19 PM on 01.30.07 |
->> Brooks has produced and cultivated some amazing talent, some names you may have heard, but many you haven't yet. But that's the way the business works, it takes a while to make a name for yourself and work your way up the ranks, and I think the true talent of Brooks will show itself in the future of photojournalism.
Many who went to Brooks are already doing some pretty amazing things, but we are all very young in the industry. And the people I went through with who are working in the business are very serious, as were the instructors I had, including PF Bentley, who taught, and continues to teach, me so much about photojournalism. Based on my experience there, I would put Brooks up against any school in the country for photojournalism.
I too have had my issues with the administration, but they didn't outweigh what I got out of the school. |
|
Jeff Mills, Photographer, Photo Editor
 |
Columbus | OH | USA | Posted: 3:55 PM on 01.30.07 |
->> I certainly dont disagree with Brooks and any other programs being a very good educational resource, however, one thing that has always struck me is just how few of the true pioneers and legends in our industry actually attended such programs.
Iooss, Miller, Miralle, Seale, etc etc. How many of those guys of that caliber learned what they did at a very expensive school ? Did that hold them back in any way ?
Again, I'm not knocking the program, or its graduates, many I've met firsthand and they've all be great friends, but by large, its always seemed to me that I've seen, or at least taken notice of, a lot more photographers who really came up on their own. The guys who I see a shot that's just so totally creative always seem to guys with no formal training. I dont want to sound insulting because I work for a weekly myself and its fine work, but I see more Brooks and other graduates with low paying entry level jobs at weeklys and the like, that dont even pay enough for them to cover their loans or equipment cost. If your getting a $100K degree, if your lucky to get a job paying $24K a year, your going to have a very tough time keeping your head above water. My degree cost me about 1/10th that amount and just paying my loans, along with all the other cost of living on my salary makes life tough.
Photography as an art form I dont feel can really be taught. Just as one can teach a student to be a technically excellent musician based on theory, one can not teach them to produce a hit song. Nor can you teach someone how to be a master painter, or write the great american novel.
I think a good photo student can go to a program like Brooks and become even better, but I dont think that a poor photographer could go to Brooks and achieve greatness no matter how good the program.
Its like me, I have no musical talent or dance talent. I could go put down a quarter million dollars on the finest education at the most elite academies of dance and music and yet I'd come out still not being able to play a lick or dance "Swan Lake" any better than a 2nd grade play.
At the same time, theres that kid who just shreds on the guitar playing in a bedroom somewhere. With some ambition, a little luck and lots of dedication, he can one day be on the cover a music magazine.
Same with photography, education certainly doenst hurt, but theres some new photographers out there, shooting away day and night with their Digital Rebels and no formal training that are going to one day be gracing the covers and double page spreads of countless publications.
Just thinks to think about before you invest a very large sum of money. Yes it is an investment by all means, but the question is what type of return do you hope you get from it ??? |
|
Max Morse, Photographer, Photo Editor
 |
Manhattan Beach | CA | USA | Posted: 3:59 PM on 01.30.07 |
->> i, like many others, came to brooks and was promised the world from admissions representatives and administrators. they toured us through the santa barbara campuses and told us all about graduation rates and job percentages.
what i don't think they talked enough about was the teachers. over my term at brooks i was privileged to study under some of the most amazing people i have ever met. guys like jim mcnay, joe gosen, and pf bentley not only taught me how to be a photographer, they introduced me to the world of photography: the people, the happenings, etc. the number one priority for them was setting us up as well as they could for our careers that lay ahead. i would be nowhere today without them and i think many of my peers that worked hard and listened to what the teachers had to say would agree with me.
these instructors are now unfortunately taking a lot of flack for something they had nothing to do with. none of these teachers ever lied to me (something i cannot say about the administration).
also, i'm tired of all the talk about cost. we chose to spend the money, and for many it was money well spent. what is my future worth? i wake up every morning and pinch myself to make sure it's not a dream that i get to do this for a living. is that worth $1000? $100,000? $1 mil? |
|
Chad Chenier, Photographer
|
Baton Rouge | LA | U.S.A. | Posted: 5:02 PM on 01.30.07 |
->> I agree that the instructors at Brooks Institute were very inspiring and helpful.
I got the mentoring that I expected.
My road into the world of photojournalism, photography, web development, multi-media has not been easy. Jobs do not fly in your face, especially in my home state of Louisiana. For me, adaptation is the key.
BIP, just like a newspaper, has much of its value associated with its level of credibility. If a newspaper is shown to be dishonest with its readers then its reputation is damaged or potentially ruined.
I'm not going pay a lot for this muffler! Or if I do pay a lot, then shouldn't I, as a customer, expect that muffler to operate successfully for long period of time.
I never expected that the reputation of BIP would be questioned when I graduated. That is disappointing. |
|
Neal Vaughan, Photographer
|
St. Joseph | MI | usa | Posted: 9:38 AM on 01.31.07 |
->> "never once did I show my portfolio to anyone nor was I ever asked to show it. I thought that was rather odd considering I was applying to one of the "most reputable" photography schools around."
I don't think that's indicative of anything odd. I was never asked to show a portfolio to get into Ohio's photoJ program.
Ultimately, I don't see my education as what really defined me or made me a good photographer. Real world internships were much more valuable to me in understanding the business and growing my talents.
And despite someone giving Eric Isaacs an inappropriate for commenting on spelling, I'd argue it's a very underused skill in our profession. Many of us get a bad rap around newsrooms for supposedly not being able to spell correctly, use AP style, or write good cutlines. The ability to do all of those things should extend to posting in a professional forum in a serious thread such as this.
Believe it or not, employers do look at candidate's prior posts on SS when considering you as a hire. (I should know - I had an employer use a particular post against me in deciding not to hire me). Your education might be good, your portfolio might be good, but if you've got 18 very obvious spelling and grammar mistakes (such as one post above), it does not give you a leg up on the other 100 resumes on that person's desk. |
|
Jason Fritz, Student/Intern
|
San Francisco | CA | USA | Posted: 4:18 PM on 01.31.07 |
->> Neal,
I think you have touched on an issue that I see on this site regularly. The issue between whether a person defines himself or herself as a photographer or a journalist.
This site is a big tent, and there are many people fit beneath it. However, I think I can safely say that there are two types in this business, and on this site. Photographers and journalists who do their reporting with a camera.
There are reasons that many on the writers’ side of the newsroom don't take photographers seriously. While I find this stereotype annoying, I've also found that many talented photographers are completely unaware of the world around them. How many photojournalists read the newspaper everyday? I've met many people who want to go to Iraq to cover the 'big story' but couldn't tell you the name of the Prime Minister or the 3 major ethic-religious groups in the country.
I feel that if you are going to work in the journalism profession, with a camera or a notebook as your tool, you have a responsibility to try and educate yourself about as many issues and you can. It makes you a better journalist. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been granted access to situations that I wouldn’t have been able to photograph because I am able to talk with the subjects about their story and have some basic knowledge of their reality because I read the newspaper everyday.
Just recently, I was in the home of a shiite family whose father was killed by Saddam Hussein’s security forces watching the news, waiting for his execution.
I would have never been granted access if I didn’t build a relationship with them through talking about their situation, and understanding Iraq’s modern history, where they were from, their religion and how it relates in a political-religious context.
One of the reoccurring themes on this site (touched on in this post) is whether a school can prepare for the real world of photojournalism. There seems to be the camp that say just go out and take pictures and the get and education camp.
While I would argue that getting an education, a well-rounded one that includes classes other than journalism ones, makes for a more intelligent, well-rounded journalist. I can also see the importance of getting out there and taking pictures. However, no matter which path you choose, you need to be able to write a coherent, grammatically correct sentence without misspellings, cover the who, what, when, where and why and have some idea about the world you are working in.
Whether you learn that in school, or through real-life experience, I suppose it doesn’t matter. The point is, if you identify yourself as a photojournalist, there is more to it than taking pictures. Before you head out the “third world” to do “concerned” photography, read a few books about where you are going. Know the history of the country. Understand its political situation. Read the newspaper everyday. And, most importantly, get word, or some other program that has the ability to spellcheck.
perhaps this this is off topic, but i think it is part of the issue that is being talked about on this thread. |
|
Steven E. Frischling, Photographer
 |
New England | | USA | Posted: 12:12 AM on 02.01.07 |
->> "Simply put, you do not NEED a degree in photography. You either have talent , or you do not. Getting real life experience and assisting will often times be more than enough of an education in photography to get started."
Amen Preston! |
|
Joshua Gates Weisberg, Photographer, Student/Intern
|
Santa Barbara | CA | USA | Posted: 1:20 AM on 02.01.07 |
| ->> No, you don't need a degree in photography to be a photographer but you do need a degree to gain a full-time position with many companies. So why not get a degree in what you want from a school you want to go to? |
|
Aaron Vogel, Student/Intern, Photographer
|
Ventura | CA | USA | Posted: 2:52 PM on 02.01.07 |
->> I'm gonna keep this short because there's already been a lot said. One major problem currently is the direction the program is/was/wasn't going. The faculty there are incredible and to the administrations credit they saw fit to bring in the likes of PF Bentley - who is a force in two media, photography and video - and Rick Ray, a video doc guy who is so pumped about the craft it's unreal. Clearly someone saw the direction that a good portion of the industry is going and made the call to start teach that skill to the students. Unfortunately that seems to be as far as the ship has swung and is currently sitting relatively dead in the water with sails flapping. It was this very issue that led PF to move to greener pastures and led so many other faculty to gripe loudly and threaten to leave.
So, yes, the PJ careers may be drying up but there are VJ careers to be had. Ask the handful of grads who've moved on to $50K video jobs STRAIGHT OUT OF SCHOOL! Will that get the loans paid off? I think so.
That's as much as I'll say aside from I'm ecstatic about being at the school and will be until I graduate at the end of the year. What will I be doing? I don't know, but I do know I'll be prepared for it and proud to be a Brooks grad.
Last, to their credit the administration is listening to the students and the faculty and I feel like there is real change on the horizon! |
|
This thread has reached the maximum number of posts
If you would like to continue it, please create a new thread.
[ Create new thread? ]
|| Sponsor Special Deals
NEW 12x12 & 9x12 PhotoBooks
|
Available from:
Adorama Camera
|
Price: $0.00 |
Notes:
NEW Adorama PhotoBook sizes 12x12 & 9x12 (Portrait Orientation) PERFECT for Portfolios! Present and distribute your portfolio, create albums for clients, or just enjoy showing off your own family and vacation photographs. There’s no better way to preserve and display your photographs than in a real photobook from AdoramaPix. Our PixPublisher is simple to use and best of all works from any web browser. There’s no software to download or learn to use. Drag and drop your images into a themed template of your choice, or design your own layout. Resize your images, add borders, frames, backgrounds, captions or other descriptive text. It’s your book! SPORTSSHOOTER MEMBER SPECIAL-- 25% OFF USE COUPON CODE PXBKSP12 Good through 11.15.09
|
|
-- More Info -- |
|
Return to --> Message Board Main Index
|
